/lit/ - Literature

>>15353053
>Is /lit/ a christian board?

Unfortunately

>>15353053
Only in a dumb reactionary sense. 4chan just adopts whatever is resistant to mainstream opinion, which is (currently) the triumph of secularism. The popularity of atheism and the *tips fedora* meme made atheism unpalatable, so christianity is now the new "edgy" counterculture.

Romans is extremely hard for me to understand, some of its passages are Hegelian in difficulty, if not worse . Plus there's that whole awful passive ancient Jewish communication thing where statements are made using rhetorical questions.

Except in modern day America 2020 it's extremely difficult to figure out which questions they intended as questions and which questions are statements, and what the answers to the obvious statement questions are.

Horrible

>>15353139
post example of difficult passage

Why doesn’t God just get rid of evil altogether?

>>15353424
God needs people to sin so that he can punish them for it, it's no different than the prison industrial complex being reliant on druggies

>>15353424
Without freedom, and thus evil, our belief in him would be coercive and meaningless

>>15353114
>4chan just adopts whatever is resistant to mainstream opinion,
how long are you gonna keep this cope up? It doesn't matter how much you say it, it won't make it true.

>>15353053
That's the exact opposite message to what Jesus preached: Do not resist evil.

>>15353459
>can’t even create a world with freedom but no evil
nice “””omnipotent””” god you got there retard

>>15353467
He’s right.

>>15353424
People have free will and choose to sin. Freedom is a value in itself, which is why God endowed his sentient creation with it. Everything else which might be seen as "evil" (for example, natural disasters, getting sick, ect) is not nessicarly evil. Just because you personally don't like it, does not make it evil. Suffering is not nessicarly bad in itself. That's a humanistic value which ignores how suffering leads to perseverance to overcome suffering.

>>15353114
>4chan just adopts whatever is resistant to mainstream opinion,
Dunno about that. I think that mainstream culture is sick and that 4chan anons are just more sensitive people who noticed this before most others.

The next big literary movement is likely be led by trad Catholics.

>>15353459
That doesn’t explain why there exist bad choices to choose from to begin with

>>15353489
>"he's right" anon desperately says for the millionth time.
Being counter-culture is not a value in itself, anons are too smart for this. If the world tomorrow switched from secular progressive globohomo to Orthodox Christian theocracy, these anons would not all become lolbertarians. They have actual convictions.

>>15353480
He did create a world with freedom and no evil (initially) until we fucked it up, pleb.
>but m-muh omnipotent god should have made freedom without possiblity of evil
basically the same as saying god should have created a triangle square. meaningless question

>>15353510
Luckily we live in a world with free exchange of ideas, so that will never happen

>>15353496
>freedom without the possibility of evil
draw a spherical triangle

>>15353514
>we fucked it up
not that guy, but fuck you christ nigger, I shouldn't be held responsible for what adam (the proto jew) and his wife did.

>>15353510
>Being counter-culture is not a value in itself
>anons are too smart for this.

>>15353495
Christianity will die completly off in the west in a few decades. The last deaththrows are beeing done here on 4chan, from then it will only realy be of any presence in africa and latin america (with it losing influence even there). Protestantism already only exists in midwest america, it will be the first to die. I just hope it won't be replaced by liberalism or sunni islam.

>>15353514
>He did create a world with freedom and no evil (initially) until we fucked it up, pleb.
Humans planted the tree of knowledge? What part of the Bible is this?

>>15353514
>>15353523
>”””omnipotent””” god can’t even create a world that violates the law of non-contradiction
lmao

>>15353527
Do you believe in inheritance? Original sin fucked with our nature, but you are not "held responsible" for anything anyone else did.

>>15353531
knowledge of good and evil isn't evil

>>15353510
>Being counter-culture is not a value in itself
correct
>anons are too smart for this.
wrong

>>15353544
that’s not what god said

>>15353530
>from then it will only realy be of any presence in africa and latin america
If Christianity dies, the White race dies with it. Westerners have two options
>embrace God, prosper
>reject God, die out
simple as.

>>15353523
No, you miss my point. Free will is not an explanation for evil. It doesn’t explain why evil exists in the first place, especially in a reality that is ruled by an all powerful, good god. It’s a blatant cop out, by changing the subject, and shifting the blame onto people, instead of answering the obvious question, which is why evil exists as a possible choice in the first place

>>15353548
false, show me a verse that says the tree itself is evil. The fall came from the choice they made to take from it; they essentially chose independence from god

>>15353560
Evil exist because of original sin.

>>15353522
>Luckily we live in a world with free exchange of ideas, so that will never happen
I'm not him.
What do you think will never happen?

>>15353530
I don't think so. I think Christianity will have a ressurgence soon, due to the failure of "liberal secularism". Not the "mainline social club type that agrees with anything the NYT wants them to agree with", but the more serious one.

>>15353548
>>15353566
You're both wrong. The fall came because they weren't able to recognize their mistake and take responsibility before God.

>>15353544
Right, that wasn’t my point though. God planted the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden, and made humans. He did all of this, knowing full well in advance what would happen. Why did he plant the tree of knowledge in the first place if he knew about the disastrous consequences in advance? Why did he get angry when something happened that he already knew was going to happen?

>>15353560
why is the presence of evil (or presence of evil as a choice) incompatible with an omnipotent good god? it is outside his bounds to use evil and suffering for a purpose because he's 'too good for that'?

>>15353569
I already explained why that’s not an explanation.

>>15353606
>it is outside his bounds to use evil and suffering for a purpose because he's 'too good for that'?
Yes.

>>15353606
>why is the presence of evil (or presence of evil as a choice) incompatible with an omnipotent good god?
It would mean that there is evil, despite God being both able and willing to erase evil completely from reality. That is completely inconsistent

>>15353610
>>15353620
Gen 50:20 "you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good"
It's within reason that God has purposes for suffering that we simply can't imagine yet

>>15353634
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. If God had the attributes ascribed to him, there wouldn’t be evil or suffering in the first place. There wouldn’t be the need to ‘use’ suffering for anything, because the very possibility of suffering would be absent from reality.

>>15353634
>dude just trust me: the religion
pass

>>15353659
>>15353665
You're presupposing that God cannot have morally sufficient reasons for permitting the evil in the world. As long as it is possible that he does, which it is, then this is a non-issue. The only problem is rooted in your emotional aversion

>>15353318
The passage in Romans 8 about free will is mostly what I am going off about.

>>15353689
Do you mean Romans 9? Read Calvin

>>15353677
>As long as it is possible that he does, which it is,
prove it

>>15353701
Disprove it

Just becuase evil exists, it doesn't mean that you have the right to use gods body to defend you from evil. The right to life doesn't include the rights to the body of other people (and deities). Just becuase it would be nice, it doesn't mean that god have an obligation to stop evil.

>>15353677
>You're presupposing that God cannot have morally sufficient reasons for permitting the evil in the world.
I don’t have to, because he’s both able and willing to erase evil completely from reality. He has no excuse

>>15353700
Telling people to go read some external text only supports the idea that the way Paul has rendered his thoughts is totally unintelligible to the lay person

>>15353053
NO
it fucking isn't
invaders must die

>>15353777
I was going to say read closer, which would do the job. but calvin helps

>>15353530
>I just hope it won't be replaced by liberalism or sunni islam.
Neh, the moment the first wave of Christians leave the church, the next wave have a tendency to vote rightwing. Atleast if the Netherlands or Germany are anything to go by.

Also, people here are Christians, because Christianity is still the main culture. We need to take the step out of Christianity, because as long as Christianity is around, there wont be a push back against the left.

>>15353555
>If Christianity dies, the White race dies with it.
Meanwhile in the real world its Christianity who is the main promoter of massimigration and racemixing.

>>15353751
>emotional aversion

>>15353751
There’s two things to get into your pleb understanding. The first is that without evil actions there is no freedom, I’m sure everyone would agree that children with cancer should be stopped but what about evil verbal actions towards others or to yourself. What about self-harm through poor dietary or lifestyle choices, this is a form of evil in my opinion. Thus without any evil, there can’t be free will.

The second is that there could be reason for evil/suffering. Suffering in particular is a good teacher to help you realise things and correct your path.

>>15353839
>The first is that without evil actions there is no freedom
That makes no sense, there are an infinity amount of potential actions that could happen or could be defined, which are not happening, but nobody says that Bogry or Laklato actions need to happen for there to be freedom.

I see no reason by the universe could be completely good and driven by love, and not have freedom.

Freedom is operating within the confines of the laws that govern existence.

unfortunately, sometimes it's hard to get across some people's thick skulls that there isn't a flying old man in the sky, and that religion is a study of morals. but no, some people will judge religion solely on that and bask in their superior intelligence.

>>15354008
>religion is a study of morals
why make up all the stuff about the flying sky man then? seems like it distracts from the main purpose

>>15354043
well, catholic christianity in particular has always been the equivalent of today's mass media, being used for grooming people into whatever the government wants. when you say there's a powerful man in the sky who WILL punish you for acting against what is in the bible, you make people police themselves, and you can just update the book to fit your grooming needs.
it's complicated, I say read up on the origins of the bible.

we could however say that every one of us has a "god" in them, who judges their actions, and we could seek to develop our relationship with this "god", as to not to fall into the "devil's" trenches of bad habits and self-sabotage.

>>15353114
>The popularity of atheism and the *tips fedora* meme made atheism unpalatable, so christianity is now the new "edgy" counterculture.
Wouldn't that make fedoraism edgy? Or is it edginess extra4chan vs. Intra

>>15354132
Having grown up Catholic I can say that the development of a conscience is one of the key functions of religion. I am shocked at how many people I meet who have absolutely no reservation doing immoral things. Stealing, lying, cheating: it all comes natural to them and they are remorseless. Perhaps traditional religion is too superstitious for a modern person, but without some system in place to ensure the development of a conscience people will become increasingly immoral.

>>15353827
I think you mean Judaism there bucko

>>15354224
he knows not, brother.

>>15354132
>well, catholic christianity in particular has always been the equivalent of today's mass media, being used for grooming people into whatever the government wants. when you say there's a powerful man in the sky who WILL punish you for acting against what is in the bible, you make people police themselves, and you can just update the book to fit your grooming needs.
i agree with all of this but what you’re describing is not exactly a study of morality so much as a social engineering device

>>15353495

>>15354253
what i was trying to say is that despite christianity having been weaponized, it doesn't mean that the study of morals using religion should be discredited.
i.e. read the bible, the quran, the teachings of the buddha, everything, and draw your own conclusions.

>>15353053
>Hate what is evil
Is that the NIV or NRSV? I much prefer "Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good." (KJV).

>>15354422
ESV, the patrician's choice

>>15354475
>Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

Its pretty good, sometimes the ESV really hits the nail on the head with its translation, I do still prefer "cleave to that which is good" over "hold fast to what is good", but I'm glad they went with "Abhor" over just plain "Hate what is evil".

>>15353537
You're right, he is only """omnipotent""", at least, as far as human perception is aware. The idea that he can brake the laws of logic (in a way humans can perceive) is not the degree of omnipotence God is ascribed.

>>15353424
I don't know, perhaps we cannot know. Surely though, this doesn't tell us anything about his existence. Saying that God is not real and good and omnipotent because He should get rid of evil is not recognizing the is ought gap

>>15353053
I was raised pagan (hindu), and still find it far more palatable than any Abrahamic. But I define the good by careful contemplation of virtue ethics (greek). I guess this makes me a dirty globalist (anglo).

>>15353555
The white race existed before christianity and will exist long after this judaic cult has died off. It kept europe spiritualy impovrished and is the main reason for us beeing in the situation we are. Liberalism, Comunism and Industrializations are direct consequences of christianity.

>>15354676
>dirty globalist (anglo (Jew))*

>>15353819
>Also, people here are Christians, because Christianity is still the main culture.
I disagree, it has been dethroned by liberalism in western europe since at the latest 1945. Christianity may still exist, but it's influence as an institution and as a culture has wained drasticly and will not recover, unless the church manages to wrestle power off the state, which it likely won't. Christianity needs strong institutions to keep it in check, or otherwise it basicly becomes the local pagan tradition with jesus plastered on (just look at mexico, afrika or the balkans for example)

>>15353474
you didn’t get it, you can synthesize both points as there is different context to them

>>15354568
>worshiping a “””god””” that’s still subordinate to logic like some cuck mortal
shiggy

>>15353851
But if God is all-knowing, wouldn’t it be evil of him (to some degree) to allow us to make the wrong decisions? A God who has decided to stop evil can’t allow anything less than perfect.

Many cultures believe there is an existence of pure goodness and that it is simply a state of being. No action, no knowledge, free-will or anything, just being because that’s all there can be in a purely good world.

>>15353573
Christianity cannot resurgee without the church gaining power. Currently I see no way how the church in europe will gain power at the expense of the state, quite contrary it will loose the last bit of power it still holds. The same thing is happening in the US, tho at a slower pace (which is why christianity is still somewhat present in some parts there). At the moment, the only people keeping the church alive are the old people, though once they die it's very unlikely that younger people will take their place.

>>15354803
Cope.

>>15354676
>he thinks Hinduism is pagan
Can tell your from some shitty low caste. The different Gods are just faces of Brahma, essentially because they understand that God is an incomprehensible being they pray to different aspects of him to evoke different things.

>>15354840
The Church isn’t necessary for Christian spirituality to have a resurgence, it fact it might be beneficial for it to be go before this happens as it can be more genuine. Many eastern religions are getting this without there being a specific authority. The key is to take the gnostic approach of helping one find the answers themselves rather than dictate it to them.

>>15354898
Most of the christian denominations could not exist without the organized structure. The only reason christianity even spread and was adopted by the romans is because of it beeing organized unlike paganism or the other up and coming religions (hermeticism, neoplatonism, mithridatic cult etc.) Once it looses it's organization it won't be able to compete against hinduism, budhism, taoism etc. which are much less reliant on organization.

>>15354788
So deep in your crypto-Judaism, even you don't know it. Pretty sure I'm just eternal Anglo.

>>15354857
No... I'm white. Anglo specifically, except a great grandmother who was German. My parents are weirdos, who were kicked out of the ashram they were living at because you can't have babies in there. But now they are back to being yogi ascetics.

>>15354475
>ESV, the patrician's choice
ESV study Bibles are pretty great.

>>15353053
Christianity rocks!

>>15356129
I had a few professors that contributed to that

>>15357242
Did you go to a reformed seminary?

>>15354475
>ESV, the patrician's choice
>adds a word to genesis 3:16
Oh no hahahaha

>>15357675
christian uni that has a graduate seminary attached, had the pleasure of taking theology I with that prof