/lit/ - Literature

>>15349733
What is that a vagina kraken?

>>15350129
That's as far as I got too.

>>15350129
>>15350196
I knew about a few of these.

OP everyone on this board is either larping or has their head too deep in books to actually understand or feel the urge to engage in culture that they can't formulate an argument about. So don't expect too much discussion.

I don't know what to think, was new art always seen as the way we see this stuff today? Sometimes I feel like the entire thing has always been run by the equivalent of elitist hipsters in their respective times but then you hear about some people dying in poverty, don't know what to think

>>15349733
I have worked in art galleries selling art for many years now. Most of it is just crap.
If you want to understand modern art just watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tMtV5p0s4E

>>15350286
>surely this is all subjective and a matter of opinion
why do all pseuds consistently set up this strawman of thinking that everything is subjective? They need to prove that one way of making art is objectively better so they set themselves up to seem smarter by presenting an even less rigorous point.

>>15350286
Art has advanced just as philosophy has advanced, it builds on its past. Photorealism is too easy to achieve (many people's standard for "good"). A lot of art is crap, but good art is philosophy. You have to take time to understand it. I'm certain you worked at a shitty gallery... but even in good ones, there are shitty exhibitions.

>>15350253
based

it's all a scam
but an interesting and entertaining one

>>15349733
Modern art is still not modern and not art. I cant belief people are still pretending otherwise. If you like this shit then you have no taste, cant objectively like most art of the last 3k years and therefor can not be educated.

>>15350251
>culture that they can't formulate an argument about
Of course, how do you form an argument about literally nothing?

My understanding of contemporary modern art springs from some kind of synthesis of Bourdieu's arguments about cultural capital/fields of cultural production and modern conspiracy theory. Impressionistic work sprang out of the French academie (starting with Monet I believe Bourdieu argues) and accrued cultural capital through the shirking of the high art norms of the time. This workbinstantiated a field of cultural production which put forward a number of offshoots that gained prominence for their proximity to the field. You get things like Duchamps fountain, Picasso's playful arts, absurdism, dada, surrealism, outsider art as actual art, expressionism, and "modern art" generally coming about from this schism produced by "talent" or "technical capability" no longer being the main artistic forces and sources of capital.

Because the model for the development of capital in art was less straightforward, it was no longer possible in the same way for academic art to receive attention for its merits – the conveyance of capital to an artist became a kind of inscrutable process, the only throughlines for the successful being the artist's socialproximity to the culture keepers, i.e. curators and academics.

The "conspiratorial" aspect of this is just that in order to gain that proximity to gatekeepers you need to be sly or wealthy, not necessarily technically gifted. If you can impress upon a wealthy patron the intellectual value of your sculpture crafted from frozen shit, an argument you're allowed to assert because your prestigitious art degree and wealthy parents put you in the same room as this potential patron in the first place, you can achieve what all modern artists want – to be important to snobs.

It is by my estimation almost entirely bullshit. If you want to toy with semiotics, learn and use languages. If you want to create stunning works if beauty, gain technical competence. Modern art pieces are vehicles for class conscious artists (and ridiculous airheads) to navigate the inappropriately avant garde tastes of wealthy investors. There is no grace in "contemporary artists", just mercenary greed; and if not that, then a disturbing ignorance of surroundings.

Maybe.
There are definitely amazing artists currently working, but their technical mastery is also not as important – the metric of quality must remain inscrutable for current gatekeepers to maintain their posts.

>>15350363
ahhhhhhh
the modern art filter . .. love it

>>15350533
lol

everything is ruined!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B8NMDmoujfo

GAIN TECHNICAL COMPETENCE kek

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ONLY RENAISSANCE ERA OR RENAISSANCE REVIVAL ART IS GOOD, STOP EXPRESSING YOURSELF

>>15351191
and also stop not expressing yourself you fucking actual realists that arrange reality and not merely representations of reality fuck you

>I love surrealism
>Read Finnegan's wake desu
>Fuck modern art doe
Pseudery at its finest

>>15351531
surrealism is shit

Vagina kraken is beautiful. Thank you for sharing this OP, appreciation for creativity has been horribly scarce. Don't mind the pseuds, they use philosophy as a shield of false intellectualism to protecting their fragile egos. Please read more deeply into the actual texts of philosophers, they will very likely grant you greater appreciation for art than you already have.

>>15349733
the one thing posters on this site consistently know nothing about is art. every art thread is different combinations of
>art is a scam
>i hate modern art
>a 5 year old could do that
>*posts painting from 1870 and calls it classical*

>>15350533
based

>>15352192
You do not understand surrealism

>>15349733
Art as art has never been good, only art as an expressive or pronounced extension of the hero or the genius or the artist (whoever that may be). It's not surprising most art sucks when most people are fucking stupid retards, so obviously by extension their art sucks. Its got nothing to do with it being modern or crazy or boundary pushing, since its clearly not. It's also not the work of deranged individuals, but surprisingly dull and boring people usually from, or adopted into middle upper class mentality who just want a rush or want to be cool or mysterious. Often, they can afford a few layers of pretense since they are also able to pull it off with their charm and well educated wit. I still hate it all though, and I don't have to explain why. The gut reaction is the greatest test of character, the one true litmus test: human or not?

>>15349733
Unfortunately a large part of this board is still very illiterate when it comes to contemporary art, and mostly shares the easy dislike of modern-to-contemporary art that lumps them in with the plebs they so much think they are above. (I'm not saying their aren't nuggets of valid criticisms among these.) Which is kind of strange seeing how so many here (there are, of course, those who reject this as well, but still many who don't) are interested in recent and avant-garde literature and philosophy. Maybe it doesn't help that the art world, especially the discursive, theoretical, and activist part, is politically 'leftist', and so the contention that this is all poopy readymades made by jewish tranny marxists to launder money and rob the humble joe of his taxpayer's money while obfuscating the meaninglessness behind convoluted theory, etc., is something that will be affirmed rather quickly. Still, I do think a lot of the art/theory world, its symposia at biennales to criticize institutions, etc., isn't really amounting to anything worthwhile. I myself am still interested in contemporary art, even if I don't keep up with it too much anymore, and feel apathetic toward a lot of the work; but I think it is important to engage with it and from within. Artists like Brad Troemel, Jon Rafman, Daniel Keller (who all, incidentally, came out of that much dismissed post-internet art) are doing some very interesting work that 4chan would probably appreciate (and in turn, Rafman's work has been described as 'problematic' and 'misogynist' in Texte zur Kunst, while Keller was hounded by the infamous Luke Turner). Spike art seems interesting in particular. e-flux is more in that safe zone politically, rather boring, but they do put out a lot of texts by important theorists and philosophers. I don't know where I'm going with this, but I definitely think engaging with the current art practice (critically) - as well as the larger philosophical problematic of what art in the modern world (as reproduction, as practice, as job, as business model, etc. - which I admit is a banalization of Art, I still prefer the artistic genius, but a post-Duchampian, a scoundrel, a memester...) is - is something quite important. But unfortunately this will fall on a lot of deaf ears on 4channel, even on /lit/, (and ironically, seeing how chan culture is undeniably a large part of it all), because the talent of painting sublime pictures is a thing of the past.

I consider it art, the art of synthesized Ugliness. And not the kind of ugliness that represents force, terror, power, nightmares and destruction like a grotesque suicide or raging inferno, but the kind that shows the erosion of humanity, the entropy of passion, the death of the universe, the final lobotomy of the spirit. I despise it, but I respect it as art that represents the disease that infests the modern world and whose power lies in making beautiful things look even more beautiful.

>>15352826
Not all artists are white anon.

>>15353016
the good ones are though

>>15352997
Are you done jerking yourself off?

>>15353135
what do you want me to say?

>>15352997
8/10

>>15352997
So he takes 4chan screenshots and layers them over motivational posters.
woah

>>15352997
People are curating Daniel Keller.

Is there an UncleTed of modern art?

Has anyone done ebay reviews and goodreads profiles as an installation yet?
https://youtu.be/ktFhiRfngZg

>>15353323
What's the image in the background? Looks cool. The rest is literally trash.

>>15352661
>>art is a scam

Some art definitely strikes me as a scam.

Jeff Koons and Damien Hirst both come to mind.

corrosive to the spirit. what more is there to say lmao

Mondrian on the other hand does not strike me as a scam.

>>15349733
>pusy

this shit is ridiculous. how does any of this reflect the consciousness and values of contemporary culture at all? this is just arts&crafts for grownups trying to impress their other art major friends. totally insular and alienating

>>15353323
Just realized >>15353006 is fitting here

>>15353568
>reflect the consciousness and values of contemporary culture at all

It's showing its emptiness, I guess? It's like nihilism incarnate.

>>15353323
>>15353347
I meant in particular Rafman's Dream Journal (the "brutally misogynistic [...] digital world populated by the resentful geek. Acting as if the world itself was stolen from him, he obsesses about 'getting even' with pornographized feminine figures that appear to be directed against him, hence negatively existing, but for him. Here, too, it is as if a lack (of empathy) is registered as an excess (of persecution), unable to connect to the present in any meaningful way other than through a charade of self-deflections and psychopolitics."*) (which is a long video with a very surreal narrative; I once watched a long part of it on an unlisted link, but can only find shorter clips from it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWrc8Q8GJqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErfEnD2WA3A
Keller doesn't really do art objects anymore I think (the google images stuff is very good), but his seasteading documentary and his talk on The Basilisk (there's a video on youtube where the commenters are some chan/frogtards making fun of him as a leftist jew who can't meme and ppl are wasting money on academia for these lectures (it's a talk at a gallery), while he was no-platformed from giving the lecture at Goldsmiths because he wouldn't speak out against the alt-right show at LD50 gallery, making him a fascist by association - so you can't win with either of them) are pretty good. For Troemel: mainly his recent instagram work.
* From this terrible hit-piece (directed also against the Spike "Immorality" issue, which is more interesting): https://www.textezurkunst.de/116/brief-glossary-social-sadism/

dude bodies and spaces and power and deterritorialization lmao

>>15349733
Nice money laundering scheme.

>>15352997
>the contention that this is all poopy readymades made by jewish tranny marxists to launder money and rob the humble joe of his taxpayer's money while obfuscating the meaninglessness behind convoluted theory, etc.
but that's exactly what it is

>>15349733
Honestly, huge respect for bringing something original to this board OP. I appreciate you making this thread.

>>15352701
no, you dont understand that its shit
specifically Dali is shit magritte is shit, everyone else is pretty good tho

>>15352826
art as art is the most heroic gesture an artist can make