/lit/ - Literature

>>15331642

>>15331643

>They were truly an Apollonian force out of a Dionysian era.
Nice and prosaic but you aren't really saying anything.

>>15331650

>The North of Mexico is unclaimed space

My jogger have you heard of cartels?
Go south fucker, south.

>>15331685
Nietzschean reference. That is to say there has been much creative potential in the last few decades in terms of art, ideas, etc. while Western thought breaks down through Post-modernism at least it has provided us with interesting art in the last two hundred years or so (starting with Romantic classical through free form jazz to rock and roll to today's mumble rap). As what has been built up breaks down it goes from a creative destruction to ultimately a chaotic destruction. I think we'll see great swarms of starving people moving from city to city by the end of the century.

The Greek mythos emerged as an attempt to create an identity, the fundamental act of forming yourself out of the void being Apollonian. We saw the Greeks discipline themselves in thought and warfare, culminating perhaps with Alexander. That is what I mean when I say Apollonian and Dionysian.

>>15331697
That's the point though. There needs to be some sort of spiritual awakening at some point. I unironically think there will be stage sanctioned sacrifice in Mexico within the next two hundred years.

>>15331642
Other thoughts, since why the fuck not:
1. Christianity was about the removal of the Shadow. We must now find a way to add the shadow back in.
2. The history of Europe was East to West. The history of the Americas will be North and South.
3. The US will eventually balkanize.
4. The Northwest passage will eventually open. The Ubermensch will come from Alaska.
5. The next overture of history is in the Americas. The last will be Africa (he who is first shall be last; he who is last shall be first).

>>15331642
The shrooms are probably not totally out of my system but this is the cumination of a thought I've been having for awhile. I don't think BAM is perfect by any means, or in any way defines the coming era, but he did an uncanny job of characterizing it. I think a better term for it might be "Concretism" or "Constructionism" the emphasis being on what is real and what it created. Someone please debate me while I still have crazy juice flowing in my head

>>15331642
Acknowledge my idea!

Is anyone else on /lit/ getting tired of idiots posting their shower thoughts on the board? This board is about books. Post about books or fuck off.

>>15331938
Bronze Age Mindset (BAM) is a book.

>>15331938
If there was a philosophy board I'd gladly fuck off but /his/ is shit and this is the closest thing we have.

I feel like /Phil/ is an important topic so I apologize for filling up the board with this shit but I think it's worth discussing until we /Phil/tards get our own board.

>>15331642
>>15331643
I don't know if you're familiar with Marshall McLuhan but his ideas about visual and acoustic space may be help develop this. Part of what you're saying seems to be that the Greek language is anchored to the visual rather than the acoustic, leaving less room for deception.
Last time I ate shrooms I thought about language as currency that is subject to inflation. Maybe some languages are more inflation-prone than others.

>>15332048
Hmm, interesting. That reminds me of Nietzsche's obsession with aesthetics. If my theory is correct, then the Indigenous civilizations of Mexico would also be much more aesthetic/visual as well. Perhaps the sensory language type (visual/auditory) is tied to the stage of development of a civ. This makes sense to me. Look at the emphasis on aesthetics with the Mayans and Aztecs, and their obsession with human sacrifice. What is the value of aesthetics? The Greek aesthetic obviously influenced the West's obsession with form. Perhaps the aesthetics of the Aztecs are why Mexico is such a death obsessed country.

It's essentially a place with an entirely different civilization grafted onto it. Not all indigenous populations practiced sacrifice obviously, but it does provide the founding substrate of the country (Mexica because one of the larger Aztec tribes that did do sacrifice).

Regarding the West as a whole I don't see anything besides a continued breakdown. The US would be stronger fragmented in my opinion. No opinions on Europe. Perhaps it will join the great stasis of Islam as did the Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, and Phoenecians.

>>15332125
*Medical being

>>15332125
*Mexica being

>>15331991
“/phil/tard” is right. Can’t even make one reference to literature.

>>15332148
>Who even is Nietzsche?
When we have our own board then the beatings will stop

>>15331642
Ironically, this is the farthest thing from concrete thinking.

>>15331642
I think you’re emphasis on language dictating thought is too extreme. I mean, take German or pretty much any of the Scandinavian languages, they’re incredibly direct and literal or as you say ‘concrete’. Except these countries and their people still experience the same issues, maybe to a lesser degree, but I would chalk that up to economic prosperity.

The distorted space and factual content all exists within the hyper real. If you want humanity to escape the whirlpool of illusion then you have to disconnect them from the hyper real. This would lead to a true BAM, but you don’t want to take the toys away from the toddler when that toddler is the entire socio-economic population of this planet. Moreover, I would argue that this disparity between the desire for the concrete against the chaotic reality pretty much characterises the Absurd.

Also OP, be wary of ‘revelations’ induced by psychs. I’ve come to the conclusion that psychs, whilst opening up new connections of thought, don’t alter your cognition greatly, they just make what is currently being thought about seem more profound than it really is. Not to say that there isn’t merit in your argument, rather, it wasn’t the drug that induced it as it was already in your head waiting to be formulated.

>>15331865
I think you are feeling the buzz from the shrooms and mistaking it for lucidity. Disregarding the jargon, the underlying argument is your feelings of uncertainty - this uncertainty is mainstream discourse these days...

>>15331798
Here also - you have to learn to speak, because you are actually saying nothing.

>>15332489
>Also OP, be wary of ‘revelations’ induced by psychs

Why should he? If he wants a Bronze Age Mindset psychs are probably one of the most critical ingredients. This is what all of the priests in the temples were doing.

You are trying to solve the issue of uncertainty that has plagued mankind for eons. Our minds and similarly our language is built around trying to find certainty (what will kill me, what won’t) but the truth is that the majority of life is uncertain. Mental and spiritual evolution is built upon uncertainty as there are many questions to answer such as is god, this realm and even ourselves real? How can you go into these questions honestly if you have already picked a side?

The solution is not to devolve and hide but to accept and push onward in our search for the unknown.

>>15332728
He's addressing a really imortant point actually. This uncertainty is a serious problem, and although it is joining the mainstream discourse more consciously than ever before, it's solution has not yet been fully realized or proposed. For our psychedelic thinkers to be engaged with this subject is both healthy and beneficial, and you expose yourself as a pseud by criticizing him for exercising his mind and critical ability on this basket weaving forum. Guaranteed, this anon's internet shitposts are more meaningful than anything you have ever written into a book. Assuming you have ever even written a book.

>Yo guys listen to my convo with my bro while on drugs lmao, too lazy to write again though but trust me bro its lit

>>15331938
buckle in or go back to rėddit

>>15332761
because chasing these states of mind which are inherently illusory to look past the illusion of the world is absurd. Also, from personal experience I really started to fuck my psyche up from regular psych use.

>>15332970
Let it be, just because you can't handle it doesn't mean that he can't. Most of us who use psychs know how to moderate without blaming the drugs for our problems. These drugs are not illusory, they are what facilitated the development of the human brain, all important civilizational advancements can be traced back to people who either used these drugs, or benefited directly from people who used these drugs. That being said it is a great challenge to learn from psychs, especially for modern people, because our post-modern civilizational world is antithetical to the psychedelic world. One of these world's is wrong, and I highly doubt it is the psychedelic world that has been with humanity since the dawn of time.

Your drug-addled nigger-brain produces nothing of value. Kill yourself you retard addict.

>>15333001
So close to trips, yet so far away.

I have had exactly 5 glasses of alcohol in the past 5 years and no other drugs. I'm guessing I'm more sober than you are.

>dude when i was high on shrooms i saw the way to save the west from degeneracy lmao

>>15332988
Post-modernism is much more akin to the psychedelic plane that any other previous ideology since it’s about breaking down social constructs and trying to understand if there is any inherent meaning behind anything. This is much more akin to understand that the physical (and even metaphysical) planes are all illusions and even the individual is an illusion.

>>15333010
So you don't even have drugs to blame for your retardation. Glad we cleared that up.

>>15332988
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brandon_Vedas

>>15331642
You write like a drug addict.

>>15333036
The deconstructionist tendency of post-modernism is a necessary outgrowth of the Archaic Revival. Psychedelic Drugs themselves are not intrinsically deconstructive, but they will deconstruct impermanent ideological structures. My view of Psychedelics is that they assert biological reality at the expense of every other form of reality. For example, your relations to kin become exceedingly important after a stiff dose. Secondarily, your dietary and drug use habits become more self evident, and unhealthy habits can be re-evaluated from a more fundamental perspective. The /pol/tard anons who assert that psychedelics are intrinsically deconstructive have probably never read the classics. The whole ancient world was constantly taking these drugs as a part of their religious activity, and they developed the most ornate forms of civilization yet developed.

>>15333040
I understand why you don't like psychedelics.

>>15333042
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Brandon_Vedas

The idiot mixed his drugs first off, and secondarily, anybody who fucks with anything that has an LD50 is either retarded, or actually wants to die. Shrooms cannot kill you so long as you don't operate machines under the influence.

>>15331642
BAM is popular because it offers a cute rationalization of myopic egocentrism at a time when liberal capitalist society is in crisis.

>>15333085
Ah, I get it, he just wasn't hardcore enough.

Thanks for explaining it to me.

>>15333109
If using safe natural drugs with a historically established tradition of use is "hardcore" for you then sure. Something tells me you don't have a whole lot of friends so I won't pick on you too much, but you should consider that other people probably know things that you don't know.

>>15331642
The documentary Hypernormalisation explores these notions more in-depth. Basically, a grand renunciation of reason is coming.

>>15331740
True spiritual awakening is not the following of some iron-bound code, like the Aztecs (and all organized religions) understand it. Though if human sacrifice makes a comeback, it will be a spirit behind it all right...

Interestingly, you observation of Mexico being the ground for a spiritual awakening was first stated in the series Too Old to Die Young.

> Mexico is the future. Because here there are no laws, only survival.

>>15331798
The shadow is by definition the part of yourself you reject. It's always there. If you decide to adopt some kind of Apollonian ideal, your shadow will be composed of the Dionysian.

There are ways of integrating the shadow that do not involve allowing it to act out, but it is a delicate operation. As Zarathustra said, pangs of conscience give men fangs.

>>15332774
Remember, Faust almost goes to hell in the end, and is only saved by the literal grace of God.

>>15331642
>muh language is a reflection of anything at all
no fuck off and read a linguistics textbook

>>15333068
This just shows that you have only done low doses of psychs and have much to go spiritually. When you can manipulate your vision or escape the body, it’s natural to question reality and as you continue on that path, you’ll realise that separateness is a myth and there’s is no objective truth since we experience things relatively. To say this is not deconstructive is an understatement since the adept much deconstruct and accept the absolute before coming back and constructing their own reality.

>>15333227
I've done the 5 grams, with a hardcore lemon tek, trip lasted like 3 hours, so I would say the acids sped up my digestion of the mushrooms to something more like 10 grams. Astral travel been there done that. Again, not deconstructive, for me, that experience showed me aspects of various relationships that I could not see before that experience. Psychs trim the fat, and get you to the meat of the human experience. If that is deconstructive to you, that's fine, but to me, it is a return to a more true fundamental sense of self. In my view, this is the foundation of civilization, sometimes deconstruction is necessary in order to arrive at a correct assessment of ultimate reality.

>>15333227
I would also argue your point that psychedelics assert a relativistic view. In one sense, I can agree that it puts you into your own shoes, and shows you the world from your own eyes. In another sense, there is through this process, a recognition of an ultimate universal reality that is held in common by all things. It is this experience of ultimate reality that serves as the primary point of re-orientation, I wouldn't be surprised though if some people can't get past the ego hell dimensions to get into that space. There is a lot of brainwashing that keeps people from having these direct divine experiences.

>>15333001
if this isn't bait this is such a dumb post

>>15331642
Modern Greek has nothing to with Ancient Greek, especially Attic.

>>15331642
You're boring on shrooms.

>>15333085
Everything has a LD50

>>15333257
A sense of self and reality is necessary to operate in this plane but it’s all just an illusion. Whether you have been this far or like the OP you want to hide from the uncertainty of it that’s fine but there’s no such thing as a fundamental sense of self or any real foundation to society because the further you go back it all dissolves. The majority of prehistory is all speculative and we have no idea how far it goes back or how we made the jump from animal to man. So the idea you have as a foundation is just your minds way of creating certainty in an uncertainty environment, that’s okay but that’s it’s purpose but it’s a huge limiting factor to further growth.

>>15333319
how about "a digestible LD50".

>>15333322
Terence McKenna was right bro. Mushrooms and other natural neurotropics contributed to evolution over many thousands of years. It has been scientifically proven that the genome can be mutated by the diet, that's exactly what happened to hominids. We developed a taste for intoxication, and in the case of certain drugs in the environment, it does alter the brain. Do this, then expand the population that is taking these drugs, they figure out how to communicate and share knowledge and skills, and you are adding to the effect by creating a kind of virtualized cognitive activity. Language as drugs.

>>15333322
The ultimate reality is that we come from a primordial unknowable force. Accepting our place within this unfathomably deep existence, as moderately advanced biological organisms is what I mean by ultimate reality, and in truth, is the very essence of Religiosity.

>>15331642
>dude drugs lmao
kys degenerate junkie

>>15331650
>>15331697
>>15331740
Estupido chicano

>>15332988
You missed my point entirely and since you go on to talk about astral travel I can understand why you would erect such a glaring cope in defence.
I hope in time you'll come to understand that Psych's hold no great truth in themselves and you're only deluding yourself with this line of interrogation.

>>15331938
You report off-topic and low quality posts, don't you? You'd better be smashing that report button