/lit/ - Literature

>>15327308
>NPC can’t into interior dialogue
Lol. And all this time I thought it was a meme

>He doesn't switch between modes of thinking on command
yikess

wait are there people who don't have internal monologues? what do you think? just like noises and raw feelings?

>Why, yes, I think in smells. How did you know?

>>15327383
Visual models and schemata. Thinking in words is simply too low-bandwidth to process the breadth of my imagination in convenient timescale.

>>15327308
It's done by idiots. It's absolutely shocking some people need to think in terms of words. Normally done by idiots who need their own modes of thinking handed to them by vidya and TV.
>but m-muh NPC meme
COPE
Imagine being that stupid that your brain is just a glorified mouth. People who rely on an internal monologue to describe their thoughts are just primitive
>>15327377
>>15327405
you need to reach at least this level in order to make it
>>15327366
>>15327396
never going to make it

i had to train myself to think in feelings not words, my mind had a voice of its own and tells me things i disagree with so i try and avoid thinking like that

what about having an internal monologue but it is really really fast

>>15327396
ngmi meant for this retard >>15327383

>>15327410
>People who rely on an internal monologue to describe their thoughts are just primitive
Literally the opposite. Language is what differentiates us from the lesser beasts. Animals think in terms of sensations, sounds, smells, etc. But Man think in terms of words.

>>15327425
aw man, you don't need to be a jerk about it

you people will be rude about anything, even how people conceive of thoughts geez

>>15327418
being able to think a greater amount of shit per second isn't an achievement

internal voice = subvocalizers
its pleb tier

>>15327441
:(

>>15327433
yeah, and dumbasses rely on internal monologues when they could think in a whole range of different forms

>>15327308
Do you know what a thought is? Words in your head? That's all they're talking about

>>15327448
>internal voice = subvocalizers
yeah and then you'll get called on in class or have to talk to a girl and freeze the fuck up because behind all the self-congratulatory chat about how your brain farts out "schemata" (LOL!) you're a fucking dweeb irl

>>15327410
>Imagine being that stupid that your brain is just a glorified mouth
kek

"hey man, whatcha thinking about?"

"SCHEMATA"

top kek

>>15327468
>Do you know what a thought is?
No, he doesn’t. NPCs don’t have them

>>15327410
>NOOOOO YOU CANT JUST INTERNALIZE IDEAS AND THOUGHTS IN YOUR HEAD AND ENGAGE WITH YOUR OWN CONSCIENCE!!! YOURESTUPID STUPID STUPID! WORDS ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO BE SPOKEN WITH THE MOUTH! THATS WHERE THEY COME FROM! THE HECKIN BRAIN IS FOR, LIKE MATH AND EMOTIONS!
SEETHE you unthinking faggot

this is how you NPC mfers imagine yourself when a girl tries to talk to you and you inform them they wouldn't understand because you're thinking about a motherfucking VISUAL MODEL with a side of SCHEMATA

>>15327468
>a thought is a word in your head
please tell me your brain isn't that limited
you seriously can't think without having to describe it with words?

I think in conversation. I never think about myself though. When im hungry, I don’t think it, I just know. Feelings and instincts like that don’t really get into my explicit thinking. That’s usually reserved for whatever is immersing me at the time. My “voice” usually follows the format of a book narrative, a 4chan post or a discussion, usyally addressed to some invisible audience.

>>15327457
Correct. But I was referring to using the animal thinking exclusively.

>>15327468
The words are only preliminary to the sharing of a thought. The existed far longer than its articulation, for there could be no articulation to speak of if the thought did not already exist.

>>15327415
>i had to train myself to think in feelings not words
Any info or resources you could share on how you achieved this? My internal monologue is hyperactive and slows me down greatly.

>>15327525
>you seriously can't think without having to describe it with words?
An ape can do this. A man can do better.

>>15327525
Give me a topic to think about without using words. I'll post results.

>>15327509
>he can't think beyond words
>he can't respond without a meme
You people are so touchy when you hear about other people having the ability to think in ways you can't.

>>15327564
The smell of rain and the rustling of leaves in the Amazon.

>>15327573
>You people are so touchy when you hear about other people having the ability to think in ways you can't.
This thread was made by an NPC seething for this exact reason (and even featured a meme to boot)

>>15327562
>animal do X but man can do Y
Yeah you already posted that, but most people above like 105 IQ can think without needing words. It's much faster for one.
I mean do you guys just not like taking less than a minute to think about simple ideas?

man some of you guys are actually retarded. i thought it was a joke.

>>15327468
>thoughts are words
Does this not take ages to think of anything? I couldn't imagine having to think as slowly as it takes to form words.

>>15327605
If faggots post cringe threads asking why they suck so much at writing or can't write for shit, just show them this pleb tier post.

>>15327573
>He thinks I can’t think beyond words
Faggot. The ability to have interior dialogue does not exclude other modes or types of thinking. Dis it ever cross your mind that perhaps you lack a mode of thinking many other people utilize and therefore assumed that this must be the ONLY way they think, as you yourself seem to have indicated that you have a singular method of conceptualizing thoughts? This is why you are made fun of. Because even now you expose yourself as mentally and intellectually crippled

>>15327308
It's called thinking

>>15327611
The NPC meme is weirdly antagonistic, I think because it triggers this sense of superiority in a lot of people on both sides.
It's common knowledge in psychology that most people use multiple modes of thought, but the vocalisation is just a common, easy to describe one. A minority of people switch between different kinds of thought at will.
I think anyone who actually buys the NPC meme as real is genuinely stupid though.

>>15327308
My inner voice has gone wild these days, I sleep debating myself the whole night
anyone with the same thing?
it gets worse when I go into philosophy

Is an internal voice not the default? You guys just think in shapes? What do you think about if you think in "models"? How do you train this way of thinking.

I just talk to myself out loud. Sometimes I shout at myself in the mirror.

>>15327578
I got a background of leaves in a certain shade of green; I know the shade but don't remember the name. They're indeed rustling. I can see falling rain, hear the sound of it hitting the ground too. There are tree trunks wrapped in vines with knotty roots. I can't smell much right now, but I caught a whiff of wet grass. Then I noticed that bird cawing, you know, the repetitive Amazon bird noise. Followed by a monkey noise of a similar character.

Technically, sure, that's a visual image, a thought. I can't do much with it though. Holding the image in my mind, it feels like a pastiche of childhood memories associated with the words "Amazon Rainforest".

If you're still a dirty mindbreather you need to meditate to unlock the hidden powers of your subconscious mind

>>15327448
Subvocalizing is patrician tier, though.

Please, teach me how to not think in words. What other ways can thought form? How do I use my brain to its fullest extent?

And how the fuck I can achieve the Chad way of thinking?

>>15327605
>it takes him a minute to think up words for a simple idea
lol no wonder you faggots can’t read

>>15327744
have a low IQ

>>15327383
Here's a good video of an interview w/ someone who doesn't have an internal monologue. It's hard for me to even wrap my mind around it, but she does a good job explaining how she processes the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69YSh-cFXY&t=361s

>>15327762
thanks :)

>>15327630
Forming words is almost instantaneous; that's how you can speak and write fluently. You probably just don't notice that you're doing it.

>>15327763
>doesn't read fiction
peak bugman

Internal voice is a key part of introspection. I don't even understand how people "think" solely in terms of feeling. How the fuck do you solve complicated and abstract problems purely by visualizing? That would need to be converted into words to even be conveyed to someone other than yourself. This shit is here for a reason. You're at a disadvantage if you can't organize your thoughts into words.

>>15327763
lol I also discovered NPCs by asking a female classmate about it. She's a low IQ normie, so that's a bad sign.

>>15327729
when you're thinking all the time you never stop to actually take in information, so you end up thinking about thoughts about thoughts about ...
You need to clear your mind to take in the world around you and have something to actually think about. Your subconscious mind is able to process normally incomprehensible nonlinear functions of information without any conscious direction, this is what happens to some people that perfect a skill like sports, they make complex physical estimations on the fly with only intuition unless they suck. The best way to unlock these powers is to undergo penis enlargement surgery. If you can't imagine thinking without words, then tell me: Where do your thoughts come from before you vocalize them?

When I read I plug my ears and talk it out loud and I hum really loud to drive out noise and simultaneously imagine the events in the book

>>15327812
>That would need to be converted into words to even be conveyed to someone other than yourself
That only matters when the idea is being finalized for the purposes of expression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdoP_sLJvOo

>>15327763
Fuck! then this is not a meme at all
there are soulless bug people without inner voice
that's make my life even more discomforting and explains a lot of things

>>15327528
this

>NPCs think people with an internal monologue *only* think in words
retards

>>15327308
Are you being a disingenuous fuckwad or are you actually this stupid?

>>15327763
The way she writes and reads is mind boggling.

Until now I thought that an internal monologue was a fictional meme

>>15327308
People with autism can often only think in specific images of what they've previously seen.

I dont have an internal monologue only internal 2 letters of the sentence, then I know the whole thing and answer with 3-4 more letters back and forth until I come to a conclusion. I dont know why people think its like an essay you think inside yourself and just get lost in thoughts forever, its a fast process

>>15327763
If she thinks out loud that much, it doesn't surprise me that she would be extremely judicious about what she lets herself think. That could be a self-reinforcing behavior.
Experiencing sentence structure as a wave isn't unusual. All language has rhythm.

>>15327308
It's system 2 vs system 1 in thinking fast and slow

>>15327706
explain further

do people not have a mix of both?

>>15328041
Basically the same. Thoughts just almost instantaneously pop into my head.

I mean, otherwise I would have to dress them into words. How can grammar, word choice and so on be so basic, that it is before thought itself?

>>15327763
WHAT THE FUCK

>>15327826
>>15327864
>>15328126
by penis enlargement therapy I mean meditation it's the same thing
Meditation isn't the same as a completely empty mind, but it's definitely not mental chatter either.

>>15328098
It's more than that though, some people experience their system 2 deliberations purely as images instead of words. Like if you're calculating 92 x 124, you're not saying any of the numbers in your head as you do each step in the calculation.

>>15327763
>>15328186
>Meditation isn't the same as a completely empty mind, but it's definitely not mental chatter either.
What about the racial aspect? Is this NPC thing more frequent in Asians like the girl in the video?

>>15328138
This
100% agree, a thought is like a whole object to me

>>15327763
I t-think that I could train myself to do that. I'm going to give it a try. Fuck, this takes me back to when I wanted a tulpa like 10 years ago.

My internal monologue keeps asking me for books for this feel. I want to kill it. I hate this stupid board.

>being braindead
>chad

>>15328222
I think it's a mix desu. If your brain couldn't process words you'd be mute by definition

>>15328276
>being a slave to a language
>chad

I have "words" for things you couldn't even comprehend. My "vocabulary" is limitless. Yours is bound and shaped by fucking ape sounds,

>>15328231
probably no

>>15327308
I have an "internal voice". However, I usually like to use the "cerebration". I think abstract concepts that are really hard to explain. Thanks to this, I have obtained pretty interesting ideas for novels and philosophy. I also see shapes that seem from a surrealistic world. When I use my inner voice I don't hear one, but multiple voices. I am an NCP? or I am normal? or I am actually a schizo?

>>15328231
The goal isn't to completely rid yourself of inner monologue but to place much less value on it. Meditation makes you much more tranquil with just sitting still and doing nothing, so I wouldn't expect it to be like that video, she seems to just be naturally inclined to think without vocalization (kinesthetic thinking in her case). Meditation isn't super common anywhere really, maybe in some parts of india but if you look at the rest of the country, not so much. The us has a very strange approach to meditation, and it ends up as some bare bones anxiety coping tool for most people, but not many take the effort to reexamine their thought patterns for good, which is the goal. I'd recommend the book the Mind Illuminated if you want to practice, it's by a neuroscientist so there's no fluff.

>>15327528
>My “voice” usually follows the format of a book narrative, a 4chan post or a discussion, usyally addressed to some invisible audience.
Like Bill Burr on his podcast?

> be a schizoposter
> thoughts are an amalgam of words, concepts, feels (including ones beyond bodily perceptions) and more that cant be put into words
it's not that i'm bad at wording my thoughts, language is just a flawed way to convey them.

>>15328304
Do words separate you from the foundation of meaning or does image thinking? I feel like words are more fundamental, or more closely, and images or music are more individual or derivative

>>15328318
How are images any better? It's less expressive

>>15328136
Yeah I can choose to think in words, but why the fuck would I do that

> someone asks to elaborate
> you'll have to connect to their brain directly, rewire some parts of it and transfer massive amount of "unrelated" information for them to truly understand
>
> reply with "fuck off nigger"

>>15328302
The NPC meme is a great way to spot an idiot
Your thoughts are good. People who insist on an internal monologue or narrator thinking it makes them superior just don't understand how humans think. It's totally normal to have thoughts that are more complicated than language can easily express. Like a couple of people said already you'll often have thoughts that will seem to appear instantly or as a whole object. Don't confuse a meme for reality lol

>>15328334
>amalgam of words, concepts, feels (including ones beyond bodily perceptions) and more that cant be put into words
> "images"
my friend, can you read?

>>15328304
thanks the rec, ol' chap,

>>15328136
When I imagine something in picture, that thing stay with me forever, I can to this day recite parts of books because I imagined the whole scene like a photograph. However words are more of the day-to-day way of thinking when you dont really want to remember any of it, like thinking where to go for lunch

>>15327763
Is that why women like to talk a lot since they can't think inside their head? also they use the feefees excuse all the time

>>15327308
>there are people who unironically have no inner dialogue and don't even understand how and when it applies
What the actual fuck bros I thought god made us all the same

My thought process is a lot like Benjy’s

>>15328352
Sure what would you consider the inverse of language-thinking in one word? I don't use math thinking I just put it under image

>>15328324
words are only abstractions valid in a game of language, it splits reality up into linear bit by bit pieces that are cumbersome, slow, and ugly. Meaning in a language game is found with respect to it's relationships, but images are closer as a direct representation of some phenomena without the needless abstraction. Ultimately it doesn't matter what form it's in, as long as you don't cling to it, anything can be a good medium of thought as long as you express it freely.

>>15328369
>the inverse of language-thinking in one word?
that's the thing, you can't truly express it in one word, nor in any words. you either are a fellow schizo and know what im talking about, or no amount of elaborating can explain it

>>15327308
sensation > thought > words

imagine thinking in words lmao

>>15328400
You can't think in sensations unless you're a fucking schizo

>>15327676
Most of my writing comes from that precisely

>>15328428
That's probably why he put sensation before thought champ
God this thread is really bringing out the idiots.

>>15328400
The issue is not that. The issue is thinking in either of those ONLY.

Are bug people incapable of using innervoices or do they just choose not to?

>>15328478
You are the bugman, bound by language to a predetermined set of words and feelings. Others can dream of things you have no words to describde.

>>15328478
Bugmen are biologically incapable of doing so. Thye think in terms of sensations like the lesser beasts that they are.

>>15328394
I've experienced something similar on acid, I feel like I'm on the tip of articulating it into words though

>thinking in words
What does that even mean? Words are ultimately arbitrary symbols, so any actual thinking will have to be done by manipulating concepts that may be referred to by words; but those are obviously not themselves words.

>>15328489
I can do both though.

>>15328526
You will be forever gimped by a finite set of words with meanings and associations defined by society. Down to your very emotions.

>>15328521
That's just a word with extra steps.

>>15328548
That'll help him be a good writer if he wants, though.

>>15328551
What a fucking retarded statement. A human is just a bacteria with extra steps.

>>15328574
Yes.

>>15327308
it's like writing

How can no inner voice people even have morals or ethic codes? are they forever carried by animal instincts in every situation?

>>15328592
They are the same as you, only the illusion that they have free will is gone.

>>15328592
Yes. Most NPCs are women. That's why there's fewer good female writers as opposed to male ones.

>>15328604
my inner monologue has never given me the illusion that I had free will. I started shutting it off in early childhood because it's so schizo and incoherent.

If I turn it on now as an adult all it says is dumb shit like 'Ok what is going on, what is this, what is happening, what can I assert, I I go and' and then it trails off into more incoherent stuff that has the rhythm of weird little staccato musical phrases

>>15328644
that sounds like a tulpa

>>15328655
>tulpa
Back to /x/ with you! Shoo!

>>15328655
It's nothing so dramatic, and I'm not schizophrenic. It's just useless. If I want to figure some shit out then I write for a while, my internal monologue is a retarded asshole. It also unironically makes me feel aggressive and says to do violent stuff, like a whole lot of 'stupid fucking faggot, should punch him' kind of thing.

>>15328677
it's a psychological phenomenon as well, not strictly mystic.

It's hebreic, language obsession, word obsession, Logos obsession.
The Greeks (plato) understood the superiority of the nonverbal and imageless, and praised music.

>>15328688
Sounds like a tulpa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rptBfKQKAOw

>>15328688
Ok, I take it back. It's not a tulpa. That's full blown schizophrenia.
>says to do violent stuff, like a whole lot of 'stupid fucking faggot, should punch him' kind of thing.
You treat it like it's another person. Nobody sane does that. Especially it telling you to be violent - get that shit checked out.

>>15327308

even that meme aknowledges that the chad have an internal monologue

the point isn't using an interal monologue or not is having the capacity to produce and interal voice.

>>15328727

>>15327396
what does hegel smell like

>>15328727
I'm not schizophrenic. Im 27, it would have manifested by now, and Im fully aware that the voice is me. It's just a bunch of emotions and thoughts I clearly don't deal with properly and just shut off. I act aggressively sometimes without any of that too, I have no delusions that I am like 'the good guy' and the voice is some other entity. In times of extreme stress the voice sometimes appears and tells me to calm down.

Which one of these options would best describe you when you're deep in thought:

>inner dialogue emerges/happens

>inner dialogue intensifies and becomes more focused

>inner dialogue transforms into non-verbal and continuous immersive thought

Sometimes I think of complex ideas in my head that would be difficult to express easily in words, so I don't even try. I don't think these ideas as words or images, but something else, that I can't explain... I just reach the conclusion of a thought in my head without having to think through 'why' that is the case.

I also do sometimes have an internal monologue, I will replay conversations that I've had from that day in my head and explore hypothetical answers that I could have given instead of what I actually said. So I do not know where I fall in this dichotomy.

>>15328263
Tell that internal monologue to shut the hell up. Gotta show it who's the boss around here, you know.

>>15327383
>>15327308
I can usually switch between each. For example, if I'm reading something I can fairly easily get into a mode where I simply glance at a sentence or two and can get all of the words/idea in that piece with reading internally.
There's also this weird thing I do, especially with math, that if I'm not understanding a concept I'll just tell myself to get it, turn off my thought process/internal monologue, and it seems that I just end up getting whatever it is. Usually its like I do this by breaking it down to simplest terms, then building from those terms into the greater picture very quickly (I say it like this because again, I'm not actually thinking about it, I simply tell myself to understand and this is how it seems to work).
>>15327528
Also this; when I do engage with my internal monologue, it's in the form of a speech or made up situation. It's another thing that helps me understand concepts, i.e if I'm trying to figure something difficult out and I don't understand the nuances of it, I'll explain it in detail to some fake person in my head (i.e I'll imagine one of my friends irl, a teacher, or an audience) and usually this will help me.

>>15327396
kek

>>15328825
Not really any of those, it's more like the verbal and non-verbal are intertwined and I continually translate one into the other

>>15328825
>inner dialogue transforms into non-verbal and continuous immersive thought
this one, I'd add that the most immersive experience is when that thought merges with sensations

>>15327308
literally everyone on the left is capable of the right

op is a cuck

>>15327528

>I think in conversation
thank you anon i tought i was the only one
that makes me feel more normal

>>15328825
the third.

>>15328515
yeah, acid is pretty close, schizo mind + acid is a combo that makes me feel godlike every time. i may be able to word it, but i've long surpassed the need or desire to word anything

>>15327396
>>15328863
>>15328766

>>15328727
>That's full blown schizophrenia.
Oh shut the fuck up you pseud, I can't believe you're not embarrassed to say dumb shit like that to people

>>15328894
No - those on the left are fundamentally limited by language. They are bound, like slaves, to finite set of predetermined meanings.

>>15328937
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

now shoo, bleating child

>>15327433
imagine living such a bland life that you can't instantly call up vivid memories of sights, smells, and tastes

>>15327308
i think in standard shorthand, get on my level

>>15328987
I can do both. There lies the difference. I have both a human and an beast side.

>>15328775
I get the same thing anon, i.e my internal monologue basically manifesting really fucked up thoughts that I don't actually believe in or want to do, i.e "what if I were to kill this kid? What if I were to rape this animal? What if I were to rob this store?" etc. It doesn't necessarily completely override my thoughts, but in random instances it will pop up for no reason. Of course I don't believe in this things, I wouldn't intentionally hurt animals/children in any way and I have no desire whatsoever to, but I get these thoughts and urges out of the blue regardless. Is this similar to what you're describing? It's sort of like the idea that I could do it, but I won't.

>>15327308
Why yes I express myself in dance. How did you know?

It's not for absolutely every thought, at least not for me. I don't even notice it unless I'm really thinking something through then its inner monologue. Otherwise its a weird mix of feeling, thought and internal voice if that makes sense.

>>15329032
It sounds like you have a sub-mind that speaks without restraint but you can contain it within. It's not an internal voice, its your Id.

>>15329073
> its your Id.
I don't think Id is supposed to speak, dude. I thought it was just a neat way of showing a divide between desires and responsibilities.

>>15329073
What do you mean my Id/sub-mind? I don't know either of those terms, although what you're describing doesn't seem entirely.

Bored of this and am going to use some psudo science to atleast open some discussion . Most 4chan users are INTP on the Myerss-Briggs which is recognised to have a word thinking based thought process. There are probably other types that have this and the whole typing is slight bull. But it does mean that on 4chan, a group of outsiders who think in words, believe they are special for doing so. Can anybody else understand how some people may have a proclivity to words and others to images, numbers or sounds?

>>15328940
literally who in the left is incapable of the right? Is that even possible?

>>15329130
As far as I'm concerned if you don't have inner monologue you are a brainlet, I'd even argue it probably comes from reading at an early age.

As for people who can't visualize those are straight up brain dead people.

>>15328613
t. NPC

>>15329032
That seems to be a distinct thing. The voice for me is not contrary to my emotions, rather when I let it speak I feel the associated emotions like aggression. I think for whatever reason my internal monologue simply became united to a part of my psyche I repress.

>>15329106
>>15329112

It doesn't speak as such, but he's vocalizing in his mind base urges that float to the top of his consciousness. To be perfectly honest, everyone gets those random ideas once in a while that go along the lines "what would happen if I stabbed that guy I just saw/kicked that kid to the road/jumped down this bridge" - it's not a sign of any psychopathy or anything of the sort, but a manifestation of your subconscious, which is a monkey brain that controls all of your instinctual behaviors and takes over in situations of great stress or panic, and it flexes all of base possibilities that revolve either around flight or fight - the reason why it only appears as thoughts and not an urge to act out is through our conscious, which is in control of the mind and body and presents the "self" that we all know and believe to be actual us.
All humans are capable of violence and irrational action in response to your logical self being shut down through stress or panic, the only reason why we feel unable to commit to those on a regular basis is because your conscious is normally too strong for your base brain to override it. It explains why alcoholics, psychopaths or people with brain injuries are more prone to violence, as their logical self is damaged or inactive and base instincts take over more often than not.

There are people right now ITT who don't read words in their mind.

>>15329032
Literally everyone has that. I forget what it's called. According to Wikipedia, if one specific thought or type of thought persists repeatedly then that's something else, called intrusive thoughts.

>>15327308
All i see in my inner dialogue are hypothetical scenes in which i interact with the narrator. Sometimes I'm the narrator.

>>15329149
Yeah, I'd wonder how much of that has to do with not having enough imaginative play or not reading enough fiction as a child.

>>15329165
Was about to say that can't relate beyond sexual lust. Then I remembered my insane episodic memory where cringe memories rape my mind every once in a while. But still "never" verbally.

>>15329193
>Then I remembered my insane episodic memory where cringe memories rape my mind every once in a while.
yeah senpai you good. I think everyone gets that

>>15329177
This is very sad when we think of the kids who grew up on iphones. Do zoomers dream of the internet?

>>15329209
I'm an early zoomer. I do have dreams where I'm browsing the Internet.

>>15329165
I do have PTSD, so that's probably related in some way.I probably get them once or twice a day.
>>15329159
This makes sense. That's generally what it seems like, although they aren't always my proper emotions. Again, it's probably connected somehow to my PTSD; I'll tend to get these thoughts when I'm especially happy, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's some sort of mechanism to keep me from getting 'too' happy. Despite that, I do get it throughout the day randomly.
Unfortunately these types of things tend to lead me into sort of fucked up thought processes, i.e one of the intrusive thoughts might be pedophilia; not in the sense that I am one or that I feel attracted to children, but in the sense that "well, what if I am one and just don't know it? What if I end up being one in the future? What if me thinking this is just me tricking myself into thinking that I'm not one?" This particular sort of thing where it sends me into a line of thought though happens only once a week or so, as opposed to intrusive thoughts in general.

>>15329039
Hehe

>>15329217
All hail the cyber thinker. Tell us more about yourself?

>>15329234
>This particular sort of thing
Totally relate, but I have a a strong inner monologue, I think.

>>15329271
I also have an inner monologue, it's not like this is the only time it happens. I can change over to the more "see it and understand it" sort of thinking when needed though.

>>15329234
>>15329234
>>15329165
they're called intrusive thoughts. extremely common, including stuff like "what if I just jumped off this building" and so on. Not being able to move beyond them is a sign of OCD.

>>15329315
When you say "not being able to move beyond them," what exactly do you mean? That I obsess/focus on them for a good period of time? If so, I definitely do. I've suspected for a good bit now I have OCD (perhaps just a result of the PTSD), although I wouldn't say it's particularly noticeable. Perhaps overly perfectionist would be a better way of putting it; i.e, I refuse to skip steps when doing things (for example in philosophy, I refuse to read Meditations before having read the primary works of the Pre-Socratics, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Hedonism, etc.), I constantly want to go back to the basics of math like arithmetic and such things to make sure I completely have the fundamentals down, etc.

>>15327528
This. After my best friend and I graduated high school and we weren’t speaking every day my thought felt static. Now I talk to myself in my head in second person and sarcastic third occasionally.

All my life my thinking was fast as fuck but no voices there man
i'm great at math but if i don't solve in 5 seconds then i can't solve it period
I'm very well read and well educated but i've never had a thought that lingered in the classical sense of internal monologue , i debate people irl all the time but all of that seems spontaneous to me sometimes i feel myself too reactive rather than active
it is NPC'ish in a way but that's who i am man
any reading material i should read ?

>>15328688

>>15329032
This is called Pure OCD.

>>15329397
Fuck you, normalfag zoomer. This is 4chan, we don't have friends here.

>>15329268
kek, umm like when I'm browsing the Internet I mean in my dream I'm a person on my computer, not that I'm "in" the Internet. I have had multiple dreams where I am "in" a vidya tho.

>>15329443
Why do you say that? What about it indicates OCD so specifically that you would call it "pure OCD"? I genuinely want to know, for my own sake.

>>15329159
You make violence sound like a defect, when it is a very useful tool

>>15328766
Revolution comrade, I can smell it

The only time I can intrinsically discern not thinking in words or speech is when I do math and arithmetic. The result of a calculation I can do mentally just pops into my head and the math I actually do consciously is a kind of checking to see if the number is correct
It's like I'm unconsciously guessing and getting that number from a place I don't recognize

>>15329443
if you're >>15329234 I can say with complete confidence that you (or he) have it. I have a friend who used to constantly question himself if he was gay or not when he was around 13. Things like that are the main symptom.
Pure OCD probably isn't a common diagnosis, but it refers to only the covert aspects of OCD, the intrusive thoughts. You don't necessarily need to have "rituals" but these nagging thoughts are the same as a compulsion.
It's basically the same mechanism that makes crazy asses want to wash their hands with an entire bar of soap, except with your mind.

>>15329539
>>15329600
you'd myself

>>15329600
Thanks for the insight, and yes I'm that anon. Like I said previously I've always suspected OCD, although I'm still unsure whether this is a root cause of my other mental problems or an effect of PTSD, or something entirely different. I never knew that OCD was inclusive of people with purely very intrusive thoughts, and I'm similar to the friend you described; I constantly question whether or not I might be schizophrenic, bipolar, narcissistic, pedophilic, homosexual, etc. and while I understand that I'm not any of these things (at least not according to my self-awareness), it still nags me constantly.
The reason I was sort of wary of thinking it's OCD though is because in the senses that I've seen OCD discussed, people focus heavily on the ritual aspects. I do have rituals, but no nearly to the level that some people describe. These include, for example, washing watermarks off of utensils, inspecting each utensil/bowl/etc. very closely before using them, when I'm making tea I will place my spoon sugar milk etc. in specific positions, I will get angry when certain things are out of place, and like I described previously >>15329361
here, I focus very very heavily on completionism of topics I delve into, to the point where it either takes up too much time or I refrain from it completely out of the idea that I won't be starting from the beginning with everything in mind.

>>15329755
Well, many people are able to make good out of it. That attention to detail may be to your benefit sometime.

>>15327308
I do both of this shit.

>>15329755
You might have OCPD (that doesn't rule out OCD though).

>>15329361
That's more being thorough. But for example, say you have an intrusive thought (how you would commit a shooting of sorts), and you have this thought every day, at times you can't control, for extended periods of time, and it even makes you incapable of fully focusing on anything else, that would be obsessive compulsive. You should speak to a professional for a proper diagnosis.

>>15329892
While I don't have constantly intrusive thoughts, the intrusive thoughts I do have are recurring and often enough to warrant my attention. I'm hesitant to say it's OCD without a proper diagnosis regardless, considering I am genuinely diagnosed with PTSD. I never discussed my compulsive or intrusive thoughts with a psych/therapist though.
>>15329852
Does this include intrusive thoughts and covert symptoms as the other anon described?
>>15329814
That's true, and it has been in my favor at times, particularly the ritualistic nature of my perfectionism, but I wouldn't consider intrusive thoughts good in any way.

>>15328294
Being unable to express your thoughts in words is a weakness, not a strength.

I don't think It should be suck a shock to people as the /litizens in this thread have made it out to be.

it's not hard to not think. if you've ever played a sport or been in a dangerous situation then you know what it's like. some people just get more practice then other people. you can tell who they are because they usually talk out loud. read out loud. words don't exist for them in there head until they write them or type them. it's just a idea and they are desperately trying to convey it. not much different then sitting and thinking about what to say only the thinking becomes doing and the thought comes from the subconscious rather then the conscious

>>15329959
not being able to think past your own thoughts is a weakness.

people who don't have a inner monologue are more loving and more aggressive.

but (((people))) who do have one are good at lying and are psychopaths

>>15329928
I'm no expert on OCPD, I recently found out about it being a thing too, and suspected myself having it because of my perfectionism and need to be in control all the time, and some of your descriptions brought it to mind.

>>15329986
>think past your own thoughts
wtf does that even mean

>>15330010
Reading someone else's thoughts and thus having the circle of your consciousness expand

>>15330010
tapping into infinite knowledge and only being hindered by what you can express not what you can understand and what you can express.

>>15328355
>feefees
what

>>15330070
>feefees
feelings

I'm pretty sure people without an internal monologue are the fat ones. Thinking all the time burn quite a few calories.

>>15329986
Even people with an internal monologue can do this.

I think I'm a combination of both (maybe everyone is?). Certain things I sort of intuit wordlessly, or visualize or associate with certain feelings and sensations depending on what it is, but I also have an internal monologue for other things. I've also noticed that my internal monologue is a bit different than normal speech in that it's more elliptical and meandering, like I'll mentally express some thought and trail off and leap to something else, presumably because I'm not burdened with the need to explain myself as I would to another person. Dostoevsky conveys the rhythms of the internal monologue well in his novels, at least in a way that I can relate to anyway.

>>15330125
lmao its the opposite, my brain gets more blood flow when I silence the voice and meditate, I get white mental screens all the time

>>15327308
>What the fuck is going on with this "internal voice" "internal monologue" thing?
No. But if you have no capacity for an internal dialogue, you are unironically psychologically unfit to vote.

>>15328987
Every single healthy person can. Some just have a functioning ego.

>>15328688
Completely natural. But if you're stuck on a monologue you're basically an NPC as well.

>>15327763
>>15327383
>>15327308
This is retarded. The mind uses external and internal references to think and feel. If a person doesn't overrely on literal internal voicing then it doesn't mean anything except perhaps that they may better avoid being tricked in narrow or mechanical thinking by memes/language (though I doubt it makes a difference). It's a difference in habit, that's all. I person without some internal thinking/feeling wouldn't be functional.

>>15327558
He might've made a thoughtform or something. Partition your mind by making yourself believe some part of it operates beyond your control, most easily as a personality or even complete person. Develop it under your wing till so you have a basis and then let it go off ostensibly out of your control, developing on its own, eventually truly out of your control.

>>15328136
i do

>>15327308
If you don't recognise your desires and arrest them in thought, before they become automatic impulses, you will be no different than a dog.