/lit/ - Literature

idk

>>15312288

Small population small language no cultural exchange. Pretty embarrassing to be outdone by bosnia doe.

>>15312288

probably they fund it very well either when compared to painting

We do have literature, but it’s just very insular

>>15312288
soulless merchants from a soulless land

>>15312288
We have some good books, but really nothing stands out. I'd flip the question on it's head and say that very particular circumstances made us stand out in painting and humanism. This simply didn't happen for literature.

>>15312288
Ugly language, as if written Dutch wasn't comedic enough they use that dreadful guttaral G in speaking. I can teach you Dutch in one minute. Take your English sentence, double up the "a"s and "o"s in each word, same with "e"s if it's a short word, really just double up whatever would sound silly. Toss a "t" or "en" on to the end of whichever words you fancy. Leave a few English words unbutchered if you want to LARP as a student. There you have it.

All their best minds were shipped out and became accountants

>europoort

>>15312879
Not quite right, mate

>>15312288
Are these real names? Lmaoooo how were these people ever relevant on the world stage, weren’t they embarrassed. "Oh I’m King Geeorgeee from Nijmegenhaaaven" gtfo here

>EUROPOOR

Is this for real?

Stfu Dutch is epic. We use constantly use typhus, tuberculosis and cancer as swearwords. Like when something fucking rocks we say ‘kanker hard’ (cancer hard). Or when I stub my toe, I don’t scream ‘fuck!’, but instead cry ‘TYPHUS!’. If that’s not based idk what is.

>>15312660
this is the correct answer

>>15312925
>sittard
>assen

>>15312660

This. Everything history accuses the Jews of (usury, slave trade, banking and insurance cheats, le happy merchant), the Dutch actually did.

>>15312629

It's navel gazing garbage. Either that or Gerard Reve-tier poop sex and related faggotry.

t. Former Dutchman. Yes I got out as soon as I could.

all this talk about soulless dutch merchants reminds me of how about-the-money rembrandt was. if he were alive today, he'd be making cartoon smut on commission

>>15313308

And? So was Michelangelo. Why did you think he had so many unfinished statues? If a patron couldn't cough up the next payment for the statue he'd just stop working on it. Guy didn't give a shit about finishing his art.

>>15312288
They traded it for philosophical influence with Spinoza

Also apparently Joost van den Vondel basically wrote an epic poem that was basically Paradise Lost before John Milton

>>15312925
Kek why did I see this as well

>>15312288
> painting
the flemish primitives' painting is extremely unartistic and disingenuous. i mean realism. art will never an imitation of something inevitably better, about this, both classicists and romanticists agree. rubens and to a lesser extent rembrandt might be exceptions, but there is no reason why they should be considered more important than, say, de la tour.
> humanist thought in the XVIIth century
do you mean grotius and spinoza? because im not aware of any other somehow important dutchmen in thr 17th century.
> no discernable influence on the history of literature. why?
because netherlands, except for its ugly realist painting, has no culture at all.

>>15314767
Based all the good culture is found in flanders

The flemish have based lit and and great movies.

ITT: ignorant fools

>>15313205
How are those corona swears coming along?

>>15312660
>>15313295
>>15313273
you're being very ongezellig right now

>>15312925
Europoort, the largest port in Europe

>>15313295
>Everything history accuses the Jews of (usury, slave trade, banking and insurance cheats, le happy merchant), the Dutch actually did
Except that jews have done that for 1000s of years and are still doing it. Don't see the current dutch manipulating the largest empire on the planet to sack its mid east rivals, dominating wall street upper world financial crime, while running child sex entrapment networks on its political class.

>>15312288
>Europoor
>The Hag
>Bread
>Ass

The Dutch are very pragmatic and can exert ultimate levels of autism upon things.

Writing and storytelling are just not their strong suit.

>>15312288
Painting and writing are antagonistic.

Painter cultures don't write, and writer cultures don't paint.

Prove me wrong. (Protip: you can't.)

>>15315879
italy: hands down the greatest painting, sculptoral and architectural tradition.
italy: one of the best and most influential literature.

>>15315919
>literature
*literatures

>>15312288
Most European languages had to 'prove' themselves before they gained international appeal. You see a lot of renaissance authors writing in their verse 'i don't think english is a bad language' and explaining why to justify their writing with it, before it gained an international appeal (Thomas Wyatt for example). What you don't realise, it that Dutch writers contributed a huge wealth of Latin literature and ideas. The impact of say, Erasmus, on literature is enormous past the renaissance. Think of his friendship with Thomas More for example? Many of those who were wealthy enough to pursue writing in their free time were refugees after the reformation. Some of the great playwrights like Thomas Dekker were from families of protestant refugees.

>>15315930
tl;dr
>Erasmus
more like erasmASS
>Dekker
more like thomas DICKker

>>15315879
France: One of the strongest painting cultures in the world
France: one of the strongest, oldest, and most influential literary cultures in the world

>>15315919
>italy: one of the best and most influential literature.
Lol no.

>>15315947
>France: One of the strongest painting cultures in the world
Lol. Holy cow, what are you smoking?

That said, yeah, it's kinda possible; one example is 19th century Russia, which had both literature and painting, but literature was a strictly aristocratic pastime, while painting was strictly a low-class peasant thing, and the two never intersected.

>>15315993
Do you get your history from youtube videos by any chance?

>>15315946
>Can't come up with one for More or Wyatt
Kys

>>15315919
>italy: one of the best and most influential literature.

no

>>15315974
dante's commedia is the first epic poem in europe. possibily europe's epic poem. petrarch's influence has been beyond limits, either in poetry and in essayism. canterbury tales are a remaking of boccaccio's decameron. (i have left out marco polo, who unfortunately wrote in french). and so on, the 15th century italian humanists and philologists, or ariosto, castiglione, bembo, bruno, tasso, then vico, leopardi, in the 20th century italy had some of the greatest writers, such as ungaretti, montale, gadda, calvino, etc. everyone but you knows the importance of italian literature.

>>15316025
>>15316036

>>15316036
just, we (and the germans) don't like novels as much as the english or the french. so we have few specimens of that kind.

>>15315490
Holland is pedophile central. In the 70s they would show child porn movies on tv after sesame street. They patron deity is pedophile with black slaves who makes of you a little odalisque.

>>15316063
Fuck off /pol/

>>15315993
>19th-century Russian painting good, because academicism looks so aesthetic!
Now here's the hot take.
I'll admit that French painting never really produced masters as other countries. The peak art-historical moment is perhaps impressionism, which is perhaps not so special a statement in comparison to Duchamp tearing it down. But he's only one guy and despite Paris being Modernism Central in the early 20th century, many of the painters were foreigners.

>>15315993
russian painting is chemically pure trash.

russian literature is a rip off of the french one form 50 years before. this is why it inevitably declined in the 20th century.

>>15312288
Literature is an art of highs and lows, and moderation is deeply rooted in Dutch culture. being either ecstatic or in existential dread is seen as overreacting. That's my theory anyway

>>15315919
>Dante, Boccaccio, Calvino

Who else?

>>15316149
Petrarch is probably one of the most influential poets of all time, but this board doesn't read poetry.

>>15316084
Koop harder, hofnarretje

>>15316149
>>15316036

>>15312610
Its population isn't that small, though. Their population is greater than every Nordic country and yet every Nordic country has had a greater impact on the history of literature.

>>15316149
All latin American writers (Borges, Bolano, Llosa, Cortazar, Garcia Marquez, Sabatao, Fuentes, etc.) are honorary Eye-Talians

>>15316149
That's three more than the Dutch have

>>15316136
1st valuable post itt

GODVERDOMME


streuvels, gezelle, elsschot

>>15315795
>talking to Dutch girl about Amsterdam
>mention hearing about their heroin programme
>she rationally explains how the free heroin keeps them off the streets and cheerfully ends it with "and then junkies will all kill themselves"

>>15317232
They truly are the Jews of Northern Europe

>>15313205
Holy shit that's topkek, never change

>>15317256
Jewish and Dutch pussy is top tier.

>>15313205

flemish oil painting is overrated and you could do without it and not lose much tbqh

>>15313308
implying people like Koons aren't great at promoting themselves and playing the market. If Rembrandt was alive today he could be doing high art as well

to answer the main question, where are the great German painters? Except for C.D. Friedrich there are literally none. While Germany has top tier literary and musical heritage. stuff like that can't be entirely predicted or explained, at some point it's just a cumulative advantage of your country having strong tradition in something

and yeah, there have been good Dutch writers like W.F. Hermans. Harry Mulisch is a hack tho

Spinoza is like the most important philosopher ever

>>15316106
>this is why it inevitably declined in the 20th century.
Ah, yes, as if no historical events important to Russia happened in the XXth century

>>15317352
t. shitalian

>>15312660
You take that back!

>>15317374
Do you understand the concept of literature?

>>15313205

Lmao this. I haven't lived in the Netherlands for eight years now but I still say KANKER KANKER KANKER when I drop something.