/lit/ - Literature

>alcohol, schizophrenia, homelessness, conspiracy theories and anabolic steroids bad

>>15244062
If you actually read it you would have read the part specifically saying Alcohol is a tool of Satan

it's exactly like the old testament but milder.

>>15244062
Quran 5:82
"You will find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe, those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud."

Quran 8:61
"And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in God."

Quran 60:7-8

"Perhaps God will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection... And God is Forgiving and Merciful."

"God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly."

Quran 6:108
"And do not insult those they (pagans) invoke other than God , lest they insult God in enmity without knowledge"

Quran 29:46
"And do not argue with the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims (in submission) to Him."

Quran 4:90
"So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then God has not made for you a cause (for fighting) against them"

Quran 22:40
"Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty "

Quran 5:47
"Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah revealed therein"

>>15244062
That's probably because you read it without any prior context. The Qur'ān is ordered in terms of length, but each sūrah was revealed to the Prophet at a specific historical juncture in the history of the early Muslim community. Unless you know exactly what was happening in that community, what the Prophet was doing, and what problems they collectively faced, the entire thing will be completely and totally incomprehensible.

>>15244355
Fun fact: all the peaceful verses were written when Muhammad was powerless and therefore licking the boots of pagans, jews and christian. As soon as he got rich and built an army (by robbing caravans and pillaging villages), he ABROGATED all the peaceful verses with brutal ones, which are the only ones theologically valid today.

Look up the doctrine of naskh (abrogation) in islam. Or read pic related.

Shoo shoo islam apologist.

>>15244371
Its actually possible to glean context and chronology from the verses, since theres so many references throughtout

>>15244398
That makes him insincere.

>>15244401
How would someone who isn't already familiar with the text as a whole accomplish that? Also, why work so hard when you can just read a secondary text on the history of the early Muslims?

>>15244411
Muhammad was a hypocritical, possibly epileptic, cowardly murderer who ordered other people to kill for him and was also a pedophile, a glutton (he got disgustingly fat) and greedier than a jew.

Pic related.

>>15244418
Read a tafsir (exegesis).
I suggest the one by Ibn Kathir because it's probably the most accepted one.

>https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/9.5

Every verse is explained in plain words.

>>15244062
Read Hadith - https://pastebin.com/2CJrErSe

>>15244430
Are there any 5-6 theologians accepted by all Sunnis in the world? I would like to know if, besides the Qur'an and Hadith, there are any theological texts that are accepted by EVERY Sunni.

>>15244430
>Read a tafsīr
Oh, okay, now what you're saying makes sense. But that still requires reading explanations written by an عالم instead of relying on one's own intellect.

>>15244398
Yet, the Old Testament says Jews would live all over the world, and instructs them to kill several Mideast nations like Edom and Canaan and Ammonites and Hittites (Proto-Europeans). Which eternally justifies Islamic defence

"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." Quran 9:6

"So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, God loves the righteous" Quran 9:7

"fight against the pagans collectively as they fight against you collectively."

Chapter 5 and 9 are the latest chapters.>>15244355

"And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. 5:2


O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousnes 5:8

and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant. 5:82

This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion 5:3

>>15244062
>>15244077
"Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star, kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow forth though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things.

In houses which Allah hath allowed to be exalted and that His name shall be remembered therein. Therein do offer praise to Him at morn and evening.

Men whom neither merchandise nor sale beguileth from remembrance of Allah and constancy in prayer and paying to the poor their due; who fear a day when hearts and eyeballs will be overturned;

That Allah may reward them with the best of what they did, and increase reward for them of His bounty. Allah giveth blessings without stint to whom He will.

As for those who disbelieved, their deeds are as a mirage in a desert. The thirsty one supposeth it to be water till he cometh unto it and findeth it naught, and findeth, in the place thereof, Allah Who payeth him his due; and Allah is swift at reckoning

Or as darkness on a vast, abysmal sea. There covereth him a wave, above which is a wave, above which is a cloud. Layer upon layer of darkness. When he holdeth out his hand he scarce can see it. And he for whom Allah hath not appointed light, for him there is no light."

"Allah, there is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.

There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Allah is the ally of those who believed. He brings them out from darknesses into the light. And those who disbelieved - their allies are Taghut. They take them out of the light into darknesses. Those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide eternally therein.

Bethink thee of him who had an argument with Abraham about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom; how, when Abraham said: My Lord is He Who giveth life and causeth death, he answered: I give life and cause death. Abraham said: Lo! Allah causeth the sun to rise in the East, so do thou cause it to come up from the West. Thus was the disbeliever abashed. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk."

https://quran.com/9/29

>>15244453
Alims don't contribute anything much. They will just read the book to you and answer questions that don't really require much of them to answer

>>15244592

9:13Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and THEY HAD BEGUN [the attack upon] you THE FIRST TIME? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
....

9:31 They have taken as Lords beside God their Rabbis and their Monks

O you who have believed, indeed many of the Rabbis and the Monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert from the way of God. And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of God - give them tidings of a painful punishment. 9:34

9:36 And fight against the pagans collectively AS THEY FIGHT YOU COLLECTIVELY

>>15244591
>>15244355
shut the fuck up retards, no one cares about your religion
you're literally less valuable than the dry spit on the corner of my mouth when I wake up
scum of the earth

>>15244663
>Defeats Soviet Union
>Defeats Jewish neoconservatism, Trotskyism
>Protects Europe from the Jewish Seven-Bankers of Russia
>Last bastion of Libertarianism in a world of Plague and Industrialism built unabashedly on Jewish, Fascist and Soviet science

Why does Islam make people seethe so much? The only other ideologies that make people that angry are NatSoc, Fascism and Communism.

The only text that matters is the Dhammapada. Sorry, heckin' Musliminos.

>>15244678
>bastion of libertarianism
shut the fuck up, you don't even know what half of those words mean
If all the muslims killed themselves the world would LITERALLY be a better place by every metric. EVERY FUCKING METRIC

>>15244707
U mad?

>>15244718
>muslims still exist
Of course I'm mad.

>>15244062
The only reason it doesn't make edgy literature lists is due to islamophobia. Yeah if some french fag wrote it in the early 20th century it'd be meme'd though.

>>15244732
Yeah because Judaism says to kill the whole Levant, while they can enjoy ther exile all over the world. I.e. they will live outside Syrian Holy land, North, South, East and West, and conspire against them to kill them for no reason.

"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished.
Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly." 5:13

"That is because they say: We have no duty to the Gentiles. They speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly."

>>15244732
U mad.

>>15244663
this is not language becoming of someone posting on 4chan's esteemed literature board

>>15244700
"Those who disbelieved said: Heed not this Qur'an, and drown the hearing of it; haply ye may conquer."

"As for those who disbelieved, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. God hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom." 2:7-8

"Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder and the flash of lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears by reason of the thunder-claps, for fear of death, God encompasseth the disbelievers" 2:19

"Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not."

The lightning almost snatcheth away their sight from them. As often as it flasheth forth for them they walk therein, and when it darkeneth against them they stand still. If Allah willed, He could destroy their hearing and their sight. Lo! Allah is able to do all things."

>>15244845

>>15244062
> violence
permitted only in times of war

> alcohol
haram

> schizophrenia
doesn't exist

> conspiracy
it's Allah's law

> steroids
haram

>>15244430
explain ibn Kathirs tafsir of 9:29 plz

>>15245057
9:28-29

The whole book in essence is
>Obey, or Hell.
Thats it.
Reminded me of when Osho said he had read lots of books but he found no wisdom at all in this.

It's very strange. All those pages, and theres nothing that makes you go "ok this is cool" or "this is interesting". A those hundreds of pages. Its a baffling miracle. It's the same thing, over and over and over just different wording, and it's all FUCKING EMPTY.

Upanishads, you get very lofty concepts. Pali canon, you get arguments. Iliad, you get shounen. Check any classics and you gain at least one thing from it, whether you believe in its ideology or not. Tao Te Ching. Even Song of Songs. etc.
But what the fuck does one gain from the Quran?!

>>15244794
>retards response is more quotes from his bible
every fucking time

>>15244062
Islam is the only major religion I have zero respect for.

>>15246038
I've only started reading it, but that seems to be what it is
Burn in hell for defiance, obey god and get a good after life repeated again and again said slightly differently each time, sometimes with an added rule or reason along with it.
From what I understand the bible barely talks about these things much at all, though it's a compilation of different writers stuff. The quaran is allegedly the direct word of god

>>15244430
Read his tafsir for 9:6 where he clearly states all the exceptions to the rule including almost everyone who comes fro an innocuous purpose.

>>15246038
The Quran has several chapters dedicated to law arguments for God stories of the old times prophecies of the end times virtues of a Muslim as well as an ongoing commentary on the Muslim campaigns. This is a meme complaint from people who have never read the Quran.

>>15245090
That's not an explanation

>>15244398
Incorrect.
bdullah ibn Abbās (d. 687), the cousin of Prophet Muhammad ﷺ and one of the earliest authorities in Quranic exegesis, interpreted this verse as prohibiting aggression against all categories of peaceful people:

Do not kill women, children, old men, or whoever comes to you with peace and he restrains his hand [from fighting], for if you did so you would have certainly transgressed.[9]

Umar Abdul Azīz (d. 720), the Umayyad Caliph, interpreted the protected classes of people in a manner consistent with what we call “civilians” today:

[Do not transgress] regarding women, children, and whoever is not waging war against you among them.[10]

The classical exegete al-Bayḍāwī (d. 1286) listed the initiation of hostilities, among other misdeeds, as a form of prohibited transgression:

[Do not transgress] means by initiating the fighting, or by fighting those protected by a peace treaty, or by fighting those who never received the call to Islam, or to commit mutilation or to kill whomever it has been forbidden to kill.
The Prophet ﷺ, in multiple narrations, stated that among the worst sinners are those who initiate hostilities:

Verily, the most tyrannical of people to God the Exalted is he who kills those who did not fight him.[12]

Moreover, the Prophet ﷺ forbade Muslims from desiring to fight the enemy:

Do not wish to meet the enemy [in battle], but if you meet them then be patient.

Unlike other texts that prohibit aggression, this tradition goes deeper to the level of the heart; a Muslim is not allowed to even hope for violent retaliation upon the enemy.

In this vein, the Prophet ﷺ described the leader of the Muslim army as a “shield” and not as a sword:

Verily, the leader is only a shield behind whom they fight and he protects them. If he commands the fear of God the Exalted and justice, then he will have a reward. If he commands something else, then it will be against him.According to classical jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 1328), jihād is a response to military aggression and not merely religious difference. There is no evidence in the source texts of Islam that permit Muslims to attack or kill civilians or invade non-hostile nations. He asserts that this was the view of the majority of Muslim scholars:

As for the oppressor who does not fight, then there are no texts in which God commands him to be fought. Rather, the unbelievers are only fought on the condition that they wage war, as is practiced by the majority of scholars and as is evident in the Book and Sunnah.[15]

Indeed, a following verse after 2:190 makes clear that warfare in Islam is only a reaction to violent provocation. If the aggressors give up their fight, then there is no just cause for war:

Fight them until there is no more persecution, and worship is devoted to God. If they cease hostilities, there can be no [further] hostility, except towards aggressors.
Ibn Kathir's interpretation is specifically for the polytheists of Arabia

>>15244062
the koran is a bad book and a bad work of theology and phylosophy but i do believe that the world would be poorer without mohameds phylosofical ideas many great phylosophers came to be in the islamic empire and started studyng phylosophy in order to interpret this book,aristotles work only survived thanks to islamic schoolars i despise islamic religion but recognize their contribution to mankind that said they are barbarian monsters nowdays

>>15244398
According to Ibn Ḥajar al-Haytamī (d. 1566), scholars such as al-Zamakhsharī (d. 1144) considered the obligation of jihād as a means to this end and not an end in itself. If Islam and Muslims can be protected without resort to warfare, the way of non-violence is given preference.
al-Haytami, Tuḥfat al-Muḥtāj, v.9 p.211
In practice, the early Muslims did not attack their peaceful neighbors. An example of this is the amicable relations the Muslims had with Abyssinia (in present-day Ethiopia). Before the migration to Medina, some Muslims were granted asylum in Abyssinia. Their generosity did not go unappreciated. As a result, the Prophet ﷺ encouraged Muslims to maintain peaceful relations with them and this practice persisted:

Leave the Abyssinians alone as long as they leave you alone, and leave the Turks alone as long as they leave you alone.
Sunan al-Tirmidhī #2485, v.4 p.233
According to Ibn Rushd, only a minority of classical jurists appealed to abrogation to justify their opinion that peace with non-Muslims was forbidden unless Muslims were too weak to fight. In contrast, the majority held that peaceful verses restricted verses of war:

Those who upheld the permission of making a truce [ṣulḥ] when the imām saw an interest (of the Muslims) in this are Mālik, al-Shāfi’ī, and Abū Ḥanīfa… Those who maintained that the verse implying peace has restricted [mukhaṣṣaṣah] the other said that truce is permitted if the imām considers it proper. They supported this interpretation with the act of the Prophet, God’s peace and blessings be upon him, in this case because his truce in the year of al-Ḥudaybiya was not based upon necessity.
Ibn Rushd, Distinguished Jurist’s Primer, v.1 p.463-464.
The advocates of abrogation refer to isolated verses in Surat al-Tawbah, one of the last complete chapters to be revealed, as setting the tone for Muslim and non-Muslim relations. Critical and contextual analysis of this chapter, however, demonstrates that just-war principles in previous verses continued to remain operative

The most commonly cited “sword verse” commands Muslims to fight, in self-defense, against enemies who habitually broke their peace treaties:

When the [four] forbidden months are over, wherever you encounter the idolaters, kill them, seize them, besiege them, wait for them at every lookout post; but if they turn [to God], maintain the prayer, and pay the prescribed alms, let them go on their way, for God is most forgiving and merciful.
It is noted that the offending party honored neither their peace treaties, nor the traditional Arab sense of honor. Only by ignoring this greater context can advocates of abrogation uphold their opinion.

>>15246328
M.A.S. Abdul Haleem points out the flaws in this interpretation:

The main clause of the sentence, ‘kill the polytheists,’ is singled out by some non-Muslims as representing the Islamic attitude to war. Even some Muslims takes this view and allege that this verse abrogated many other verses including, ‘There is no compulsion in religion,’ (2:256) and even according to one solitary extremist, ‘God is forgiving and merciful.’

This far-fetched interpretation isolates and decontextualizes a small part of a sentence and of a passage which gives many reasons for the order to fight such polytheists: they continually broke their agreements and aided others against the Muslims, they started hostilities against the Muslims, barred others from becoming Muslims, expelled them from the Holy Mosque and even from their own homes. At least eight times the passage mentions the misdeeds of these people against the Muslims.

Moreover, consistent with the restriction of war elsewhere in the Quran, the immediate context of this ‘sword verse’ exempts such polytheists who do not break their agreements and who keep peace with Muslims. It orders that those enemies seeking safe conduct should be protected and delivered to the place of safety they seek. The whole of this context to verse 9:5, with all its restrictions, is ignored by those who simply isolate one part of a sentence to build on it their theory of violence in Islam.
Many jurists and scholars did not accept the argument that sword verses abrogated peaceful verses. Even those who claimed peaceful verses were “abrogated” did not necessarily mean, in their technical terminology, that they were cancelled or negated altogether.

According to classical jurist Ibn Rajab (d. 1393), the use of the word “abrogation” (naskh) by early authorities usually did not mean cancellation. Rather, it was that that later verses clarified, explained, and sometimes provided exceptions to general rules laid down in previous verses:

Their intended meaning of the word ‘abrogation’ is explanation [al-bayān] and clarification [al-īḍāḥ]. Indeed, the righteous predecessors [al-salaf] would often use the word abrogation in this way.
Most scholars did not consider unbelief in Islam itself as a casus belli or justification for war. Ibn al-Qayyim reports the view of these jurists:

Fighting is only necessary to confront war and not to confront unbelief. For this reason, women and children are not killed, neither are the elderly, the blind, or monks who do not participate in fighting. Rather, we only fight those who wage war against us. This was the way of the Messenger of God, peace and blessings be upon him, with the people of the earth. He would fight those who declared war on him until they accepted his religion, or they proposed a peace treaty, or they came under his control by paying tribute.
bn al-Qayyim, Aḥkām Ahl al-Dhimmah, v.1 p.110

he copied christianty from memory, with adjustments, so the converts instead of becoming more docile subjects, instead would become a rampaging warband. and it worked, his infighting neighbors join forces and attacked and expanded into every unorganized nation.

don't the judge the product, judge its results.

>>15246483
Christians were not docile subjects of the Romans and were viewed by most Roman pagan emperors as subverters of imperial order. After the Christians gained power they were in control of an empire that was already a rampaging warband.

>>15244700
Maybe because those ideologies, including Islam, kill a lot of their own people? (Ironically, with fascism killing the least among those)

>>15246162
There's actually a reason for this. The Quran has some repetition throughout linked to different contexts, to aid memory and to prevent corruption of the text. Also the frequent references to 'disbelievers' (which should often be translated 'those who disbelieved') often refers to certain disbelievers of the time, like pagans who were attacking the Muslims. So its more interestingly a war time polemic that would appear every time they tyrannized the believers, and hence thats why you see the references to hell vary in harshness or mildness.

Keep in mind, the Quran is intended as a recitation, usually in short prayer, and some formulae are repeated to mark the end of verses

Legacy.quran.com

>>15246683
Islam doesn't see Arab or not Arab. It sees Muslim or not Muslim. Muhammad killed a lot of Arab pagans as well. If a Jew or Christian coverts to Islam, they will leave them alone. Nationalism doesn't matter a single bit.

>>15247050
>convert or die
>also convert to the right kind of muslim or die
>also arab supremacy is pretty much cannon. So be arab too.
>still maybe die, because you're gay or like liberty or something.

And I wasn't even talking about the conquests

>>15247138
Yes that is Sunni/wahabbi

You can’t use being Arab as a pass card. FFS Muhammad was more merciful to Jews and Christians than Arab Pagans. Imagine that.

>>15244758
>if someone wrote the exact same thing but in an entirely different context in terms of geography, history, language, religion and situation it’s be meme’d to death
This applies any which way.

>>15247261
idk if someone wrote the Bible now everyone would be #cringing and calling jesus an incel

>>15247160
Semitic paganism is only known for whores and infanticide so he was in the right to do that.

>>15247138
>convert or die
"And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein" Quran 5:47

"But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah?" 5:43

>also convert to the right kind of muslim or die
"Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them" 4:90

for clarification

>last point
Degenerates spread bacterial and viral disease, theyre not innocent

>>15244592
>>15245043
>>15246262
>>15246328
>>15246394
>>15246426
>>15247050
>>15247160
Are there any 5-6 theologians accepted by all Sunnis in the world? I would like to know if, besides the Qur'an and Hadith, there are any theological texts that are accepted by EVERY Sunni.

>>15247393
No, only the Quran and Authenticated Hadith are the only authority as they are the direct commands of God.

>>15247378
Great, so you won't kill the Christians and Jews. What about the other half of the world?

Not that any of your unconvincing quotation posting answers >>15244398

>>last point
>liberty spreads disease
So this is a pro-corona-lockdown argument?

>>15247656
"And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of God. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know." Quran 9:6

"So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, God loves the righteous" Quran 9:7

>the other half of the world
The Bible says Jews would live all over the world, and their religion instructs them to kill 'Amalekites, Edomites, Canaanites etc.' (I.e. Muslims). So it confirms the world has some conspiracy against us anyway.

>Last point
Degeneracy incurs disease and thus depends on Communistic government. Liberty would allow Degeneracy to destroy itself. Everything abnormal is destructive and removes itself.

>>15244062
i am 99% percent certain you don't come from /lit/ and you should 100% go back to where you came from

>>15244093
I know plenty of schizo alcoholics who acknowledge that statement

>>15248210
I don't know why you keep talking if you aren't going to address naskh >>15244398
and Taqiya while you're at it. No one should believe anything you say if your philosophy stresses the importance of lieing about it.

>>15248490
The doctrine of Jihad Abrogation accepts that the Quran is wholly peaceful and only allows fighting in self-defence. (See >>15244355), but it contends that these verses are abrogated by a final verse 9:5. Though in context it is clear it is defensive, a matter of interpretation. Give pagans protection (9:6), they fought you first, they observe no covenant of protection etc. (9:1 - 9:28)
legacy.quran.com/9

Now people might then choose to abrogate it with:
9:29 Fight those WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD OR IN THE LAST DAY and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture until they give the jizyah willingly while they are small. (However it can be interpreted as only Christians, Jews and similar who do not believe in God i.e. through flagrant tyranny). Other specific characteristics: "They have taken there rabbis and monks as lords beside God... indeed many of the scholars and the monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert from the way of God."

This is similar to a verse Chapter 5, which also indicates that that the Israelites would be treacherous except a few and "spread corruption throughout the land" (*The Torah instructs Jews to kill completely all Syriac Nations and Anatolian Hittites), and that Christians would have eternal hostilites amongst themselves, as would the Jews (indeed the Bible confirms this as it predicts the genocidal Jews are living outside the Holy Land, presumably Christian or Pagan lands). This is an evident reason for Muslims/Abrahamic people to be motivated to self-defence against the whole world, confirmed from the Bible and Quran

Thus all fighting in self-defence is needed. Islamic fighting depends on the fact that the Bible and Quran imply that the world would be in eternal conflict and a danger to them

>>15248713
Well, at least it's as excessively complicated as other religions. Defense of your own lands is one thing, even such as attacks on WTC to drive out foreigners in your lands. But driving Islam into other countries by mass numbers of refugees is another. It's going to cause a backlash and no one will have peace. The 'peoples of the book' should stay in whichever of their countries and try to convince their leaders to leave each other alone. Is that an acceptable outcome?
Otherwise I'm not sure this Islamic self-defense you're talking about is any more convincing a policy of peace than that of the Jews, Christians or neoliberals. Even the Buddhists get pretty pushy once they take power. Perhaps the Hindus aren't dangerously expansionist, I guess. But if it will just always be war "in self-defense" we'd be better off without any of it. And then Islam seems like the most immediate problem.

>>15247449
Do you drink camel urine?

>>15249662
Camels only produce a dessicated wax, not urine

Don't people eat swine that eat their own waste?

>>15250009
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_urine

>>15249628
The Quran is explicitly peaceful - except some can choose to interpret 9:5 (or 9:29) as cancelling out mere self-defence. However, it doesnt matter because the Hebrew Bible says that Jews would encompass the Earth, and instructs them to kill the whole Levant. Therefore, the world begun its war against Muslims first, and self-defense is paramount. Of course, we have to be judicious against the most salient invaders.

>>15249662
Camels dont produce water, only salts. Some bedouins mix it with milk, if they are about to die from losing salts through sweating. Its only for people who arent used to that environment, likely the same kind who consume waste-eating Swine, so it wouldnt bother them.

>>15250124
In hadith it is recommended to drink camel urine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-F4yjuWCfs

>>15250166
The authentic hadith are those with more than one testaments.

That hadith is specifically about some people who were dying in the desert (likely losing salts)

>>15250374
It's from Sahih al-Bukhari. Just go and drink camel urine, bwoy.

>>15250395
Even if it was true, its only for those people who were dying in the desert. Camels only produce acid and salts

>>15250423
>its only for those people who were dying in the desert
Are you sure? That's islamic medicine for everyone. Even for you, bwoy.

>>15250073
You see the problem with this though, right? It gives Islam a permanent reason for endless war. How can Islam be peaceful if for more than a thousand years, since the very beginning of it's existence, it has always been at war? Then Islam has literally never been at peace and can never be at peace until all Jews convert, or there's another holocaust but this time for real. How is that peaceful?

>>15251286
the geo-political context has to be taken into account. christianity has only really gone to war with pagans (basically wiped them out) and muslims. europe is kinda cut off from the rest of the world, there isnt really anyone to go to war with other than muslims. The middle east is at basically the center of the world and has direct contact with many other religions. War is a natural inclination of man and not indicative of a natural warishness in islam.

>>15244095
Have you actually read the Old Testament outside of a few out of context verses from Leviticus?

The Old Testament is full of calls for justice, mercy, and peace.

>>15244077
I'll just post a wojak that'll show him!

>>15251286
The Jews religion commands them to kill all goyim in the Levant, while they inhabit the whole earth. How's that Islam's fault?

>>15251286
>>15251648
Also Chapter 9 is only talking about specific enemies. I just mentioned the jewish thing because it nullifies a violent interpretation anyway. (Judaism started eternal war)

"The Jews said Ezra is the Son of God".9:30

"They took their scholars and priests as Lords beside God" (specific)

9:29 most literal meaning is only People of the Book (Christians and Jews) that dont believe in God and the Last Day. Which is an oxymoron unless its talking about warring Christians and Jews
E.g. the later mentioned scholars and monks taking peoples wealth

legacy.quran.com/9