/lit/ - Literature

>>15248661
which one are you talking about?

i got a free copy of this one at the library when they were mass redpilling liberal plebs out front

Why are you talking about the Quran, but forget about the Hadith?

https://pastebin.com/2CJrErSe

Recommended Books on Islamic History

>>15248694
The Hadiths are a major collection, six sets, each of many volumes

>>15248706
The Sealed Nectar. Also khutbahs by Awlaki

Quote by Anwar al-Awlaki. Droned for
supporting al-Qaeda, he was also ridiculously slandered by the FBI who said he solicited prostitutes and was arrested multiple times for it while an imam in San Diego (strange no news organization reported it until years later, considering his mosque was major and he was a national figure). Obviously this character assassination was to discourage Muslims from following him. But I digress. The above quote is from an English khutbah (sermon) by him, the first in a series on the Life of Muhammad, salla Allahu alayhe wassallam. It's available to listen to here

https://www.kalamullah.com/anwar-alawlaki.html

(excerpt is from 27:25)

>Brothers and sisters, there is a global culture that is being forced down the throats of everyone on the face of the earth. This global culture is protected and promoted. Thomas Friedman--he is a famous writer in the U.S., he writes for the New York Times--he says, "The hidden hand of the market cannot survive without a hidden fist. McDonald's will never flourish without McDonnell Douglas." The designer of the F-15's. In other words, we're not really dealing with a global culture that is benign or compassionate. This is a culture that gives you no choice. You either accept McDonald's, otherwise McDonnell Douglas will send the F-15's above your head. It's a very intolerant culture that cannot coexist with anything else, it uproots every other culture on the face of the earth, it just cuts the roots of it. And you have here a quote here by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, he's a famous Russian historian-writer, he says, "To destroy a people you must first sever their roots." So it's really a destruction of the people of the earth, because every other culture is being demolished. So this is not a global culture that will coexist with others, it will replace others. And the only ideology that is standing up to this global culture is Islam.

>>15248744
>yeah bro, trust me, he was a good guy, just look at the nice innocent photo of the feller playing with his toy rocket launcher
kek. St. Paul retroactively refuted these people our of orbit.

>books on Islam
>all by Christians

Hmmm

>>15248694
Only the hadith with multiple lines of transmission are 100% authentic. They're given different grades of genuineness

>>15248798
>expelling western occupation is wrong,guy!

Pic related, his daughter killed by a Navy SEAL strike team. His son was also droned, his brother as well, both "accidentally"

>>15248798
>St. Paul retroactively refuted these people our of orbit
What do you mean?

>>15248807
are you muslim?

>>15248661
>The Jews do not consider it a sin to cheat or lie to a gentile or pagan.
Muslims don't either. Their law books even carefully explain how to lie to the infidels. Pic related.

>>15248661
>redpilled
>translation

pick one faggot

>>15248805
Are you sure they are Christians? They are Europeans, it so happened that Europe and the USA are the only places where you can safely study the real history of Islam.

>>15248882
Muslims read the Quran aloud at prayer, how could they conceal it from anyone.

Can you tell me why you guys read the Qur'an over the bible?

Also if anyone else is a Christian here I just wanted to ask what to say to someone else, we were in a meeting last night and we were praying in the Holy Spirit (tongues) and this new guy was straight up making airplane noises.

Should I say anything?

>>15248805
you don't trust non-muslim authors? kek

>>15249056
You don't trust muslim authors yourself judging by your recommendations

>>15249074
answer the question

>>15248661
Which is the part about crashing planes into office buildings?

Fred Donner - Muhammad and the Believers

>>15248807
Considering none of the early hadith had isnads, that being rather a much later development in the face of trying to authenticate their shit, I'd wager that any hadith with a transmission is far from being "100: authentic" as you claim.

>>15249048
>this new guy was straight up making airplane noises.

>>15248805
Look at this goon!

Before I was a coomer, I would read all sorts of books even if they didn't interest me. Now, I am. I have no motivation to read and if I get any, well I get distracted again.

I see this thread and think I could knock out a book or two a day. I once resolved to read Lenin's collected works even though I'm not a marxist. I'd like to just sit down and read and think again. Now my life revolves around one thing.

>>15249512
Submit to Allah

>>15249512
Repent from your coomer ways and seek refuge in Allah (SWT).

>>15248661
>reading the Holy Qur’an in translatiom
Yikes

Muslimbros, is Lings’ book on Muhammad good? I want to read a good biography of the Prophet and contextualize everything before I decide to convert or not.

>>15250655
>>15249345
>>15249196

>>15250655
Read this - https://pastebin.com/2CJrErSe

>>15250804
>OH NO MUHAMMAD IS GIVING DRUNKEN RETARDS LASHES AND STONING ADULTERERS
Lel kaafir dog

>>15250655
It's a comfy read. He's a respected man, so I don't doubt this accuracy.

>>15250827
He told his followers to drink camel urine.

>>15250655
Lings was a follower of Schuon, who created a suspicious sect. Be careful.

(You can read about it in Mark Sedgwick's book)

>>15250855
It's a Bedouin treatment for desert related ailments

>>15250804
>Ali had sex with a female slave from the share of the prophet, some companions disapproved of this but the prophet encouraged him
Wow Muhammad must have been close to the guy to give Ali his own share

>>15250868
That’s exactly why I was cautious about it. I have a PDF of it and it didn’t seem bad from my perspective, but I don’t want them to be force-feeding me some perennialist or unislamic narrative without me being aware of it. I will likely try The Sealed Nectar, I have heard it mentioned often here and elsewhere.

>>15250906
It was about ordinary malaise. You are not familiar with Islamic medicine.

>>15250920
Cuckold

>>15250804
Lel the compiler of this is trying too hard. Just look at the section where in relation to the Last Hour it is reported that Muhammad says that no one alive among them would be alive in a century. The retard who compiled this says that this means Muhammad said that the Last Hour would be in a 100 years, when it clearly means the obvious statement that basically everyone he talked to would be dead in a century. Of course, another hadith is mentioned where Muhammad is said to be correcting a misinterpretion that what he was saying was that there was 100 until the Last Hour, and the compiler says that this is “damage control” and continues to force his false interpretations. Only Allah knows the Hour. Seething kuffar.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/9/77
https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/314

>>15250968
This is just a collection of links to cringe hadiths. The idea is to figure it out on your own, although you're not used to doing it.

>camel urine bad

>Islam false

>how can you doubt the desertino bookerino? it says that it is reliable!

>19 posters

It's literally the exact same person on every thread about Islam posting revisionist garbage that nobody takes seriously. Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, Tom Holland, etc. Absolutely obsessed

>>15250804
Most of them are not problematic.

>>15250998
Is it good?

>>15250655
It's well written but he uses sources with no Isnad and no corroboration just because they're "old" (dating hundreds of years after the Prophet, salla Allahu alayhe wassallam, died, making them worthless without better substantiation). The Sealed Nectar is much better but only the second edition if it's English translation, first edition translation is unreadable.

Alternatively

>>15248744

>>15250922
It's a lot drier and not as sensational but that's the price of being much more selective with sources.

best quran translation is by yusuf ali

I like women

>>15252728
Uh no. It's definitely nice but not the most accurate, the commentary is especially heterodox

>>15248827
Based anti-imperialist

>>15249319
How is this post pinned!?

>>15251295
>revisionist garbage
You can give books that refute these books. But only books by historians and philologists, not Islamic preachers.

>Absolutely obsessed
You have a distorted perspective of vision. For Muslims, is any historical research perceived in this way? I hope God will make you get rid of delusions.

>>15252983
>only by Christians, not by Muslims

Hmm

>>15252991
Give evidence of the Christianity of each of these authors. For Muslims, are all people with European names Christians? A ridiculous level of argument.

>>15248661
>Blocks your path

>>15248882
>uses one source and interpolates basic legal discussions to claim Muslims lie
This manual was written in the 15th century when Muslims didn't give a fuck about Western norms. Why the fuck would it lie about female circumcision? That's retarded. Also notice how one Arabic translation source is literally a Christian polemicist instead of the official translation. Besides that differences have always existed among the various Madhabs. Then there is the cause of lying of the situation is more important then speaking the truth. This is the case of a Muslim is ONLY when their or someone else's life is in danger. Even the manual itself states that it is conditional. Then there is the wheat thing which is once again not making a claim on morality. But on legality. Then is the example of Egypt given. Egypts grand Mufti has literally spoken out against female circumcision. And notice how the proof for "the official Shafi position" is one book.
Here's a Shafi website of today's verdict
https://islamqa.org/shafii/shafiifiqh/30239
Shaykh Nuh Keller translates and comments in his Reliance of the Traveller (عمدة السالك):

“Circumcision is obligatory (Shaykh ‘Umar Barakat: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women, removing the prepuce (Ar. bazr) of the clitoris (Shaykh Nuh Keller: not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert).”
We would like to point out that this “circumcision” is not what is commonly known as female genital mutilation
Seems the "mistranslated source is used by official scholars and not the polemicists. Wonder why....
Besdies that Kaab Bin Ashraf is reported in the Sira and not in a strong hadith. Therefore his situation is irrelevant. Besides that even the Sira says that he literally went and offered support to the Meccans. Is that not a valid clause for espionage?
After that the article makes some retarded claims about some monolithic Muslim mentality that anyone with half a brain can refute. Yeah all Muslims know about as well as accept the Cairo declaration of human rights and definitely mean to eliminate the infidel when they say peace.
"Professor Kaffir" is a sleazy Jew taking advantage of mentally retarded /pol/acks.

>>15253081
Christians or atheists, then

>>15253171
Are you paranoid about these groups of people? Are you forbidden to read them? Are their studies not scientific?

>>15253081
The books posted actually aren't that bad. Fred Donner from what I know has a relatively open view of Islam. I think it's just the fact that the not stop book spam makes it look malicious. That said I know Patricia Crone isn't very fond of the faith though she isn't some completely unread Christian polemicist.

>>15253194
Though expanding on my last post there is some very bizarre stuff here like the books of this guy >>15249379
whose theories are relatively ahistorical and literally subscribes to "The Revisionist School of Islamic History.

>>15250956
"Prophetic medicine" is a meme belief that even Ibn Khaldun said was minority view at his time.

>>15253193
I'm saying if they must be the sources then there is going to be an ideological bent. Surely if I used a sample of two dozen books about the Crusades and they were all written in the Middle East, you would say this is biased

>>15253206
What is the problem of these studies? Where can I read a scientific critique of this?

>>15253230
Any distortions or lies in these books?

>>15250990
>We tell a bunch of lies and it's not our fault we're lying.
Unironic Christcuck mentality.
Besides that this guy once again shits up his sources to make retarded points. In his bit on grave digging he fails to mention that Abdullah Bin Ubbay is a well known traitor who frequently collaborated militarily against the kaffir and that the hadith actually says that the Prophet dressed him in a "dress of lice" and not the homoerotic interpretations that pops up in the brains of Christcucks. Besides that the next hadith he cites that clearly implies that the person being pushed out of his grave by a miracle is used by him to imply that the Prophet did it. Next he just casually acts like Abu Jahl was some random uncle of the Prophet and that he didn't literally die in a war fighting the Prophet. Besides that the article deceptively uses the torture suffered by the Prophet as the only indignities suffered by the Muslims and not the torture of slaves killing of families etc. These polemicists are a bunch of lying subhumans.

>>15253280
I don't know if you're aware of this but subjective judgements are always involved in the study of history, especially over a thousand years old. It would be impossible otherwise

>>15253224
Millions of Muslims around the world think otherwise.

https://prophetmed.kau.edu.sa - faculty on 'the #1 Arab university'

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE2RfEF_9Kw

>>15250990
More bullshit. The entire section on terrorism. The compiler casually doesn't mention that the Kyber Jews waged war on the Prophet twice and that the Banu Nadir attempted to assassinate the Prophet which is why they were exiled(btw the tree burning couldn't harm them since they'd already left). Then is the fact that "terror cast into the hearts of the enemies" is somehow equated with the terrorism. Then is the fact that the Prophet was told to fight "the People" which almost all scholars agree is the Arab pagans who very consistently fought him. So the compilers interpretation is bullshit once again.
Can you really trust a compiler who makes THIS many mistakes?

>>15253295
What are you talking about? In which book that was posted here is it written?

You are hysterical like a woman lol

>>15253329
Camel urine has been studied
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5739131/

>>15253309
Is subjective judgment a lie?

>>15253329
Two people are not a valid argument. Especially when a more respected source like Ibn Khladun actively rejects it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621227/

>>15253349
Literally in the link posted. The compiler makes all these points. Do you even read your own link?

>>15253359
There's a whole university sponsored by the Saudi government. Also EVERY Islamic country has boutiques of prophetic medicine.

>>15253356
No, but obviously it means incorrect conclusions are going to be included in every study especially that old, and these conclusions will err on the side of the ideological bias

>>15253386
A "Saudi university" with a ulama class that holds views from before the the 15th century is not a valid resource. Once again this was a minority tradition in medieval times accept in fringe circles. See Albert Hourani (A British historian) who corroborates this.

>>15253399
The same can be said of Muslim studies of the history of Islam. You need to be able to look at the subject from different angles.

>>15253417
Yeah only you don't want that, you presented exclusively one angle and a priori objected to any other

>>15253416
>corroborates this
What exactly? The fact that it was common in the old days does not mean that it was ONLY in the old days.

>>15253429
How did you decide? I posted a bunch of books. Now you post your books.

>Acute toxicity study done up to a dosage of 10 ml/kg of camel milk and urine showed no signs of toxicity and mortality among the rats, indicating the present dosage of 5 ml/kg is safe to be administered to the rats.

>Oral administration of cimetidine (100 mg/kg), camel urine (5 ml/kg), and camel milk (5 ml/kg) significantly inhibited gastric lesions by 83.7, 60.5 and 100% in the HCl/EtOH experimental model

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5701391/

>>15253473
Camel urine literally has medicinal benefits:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5701391/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5198918/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5739131/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23001906
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22922085
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21854200
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20883769
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8771453
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3426029/

Is music forbidden in Islam?

>>15253453
It corroborates that it was a minority position even then

>>15253506
Sufis say no mordern Shias say no. Most Sunni and Shia kingdoms allowed it historically. Though many orthodox scholars forbid it like Shafi and Malik. Some like Ibn Hazm and Al Ghazali allowed it.

Imagine a world without islam

>>15253518
what does that even mean, retard?

>>15253506
All four of the great imams said musical instruments are haram. Religious singing (nasheeds) is halal

https://youtu.be/1veElIhmt3A
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p48LTzhyQtE

>>15253513
The advice to be treated with camel urine was given by Muhammad. It is in Sahih al-Bukhari. There is the same isnad as with many other important hadiths. Modern Muslims adhere to this Sunna. What's your problem?

>>15248661
this khuranic verse doesn't mention anything about cheating or lying so why don't you go a neck yourself, OP?

>>15253764

>>15250827
MusLARPer please

>>15253351
>Firdaus Romli, MSc,1 Nadiah Abu, PhD,1 Faten A. Khorshid, PhD,2 Syed Umar Faruq Syed Najmuddin, MSc,1 Yeap Swee Keong, PhD,1 Nurul Elyani Mohamad, PhD,1 Muhajir Hamid, PhD,1 Noorjahan Banu Alitheen, PhD,1 and Nik Mohd Afizan Nik Abd Rahman, PhD1


Please tell me again, why did the white man gift the rest of the world with his tools.

>>15253194
Hoyland is the only one among them without any obvious ideological bent

>>15253280
Hagarism is outdated.

>>15255454
Explain why

>>15255550
Every scholar including Crone herself admitted this

>>15255614
Sources?

very interesting discussion

>>15248661
fuck gay ass Quran. Quran is great toilet paper in these times.
Gayhammad was a fake charlatan