/lit/ - Literature

I love Nietzsche but his anti-christianity can quite goofy at times.

>>15232600
I have yet to see a single person refute his anti-christian statements in the past 125 years

>>15232527
Paul was a liar and corrupter

>>15232622
Catholicism wasn't Christian.

>>15232647
is this the new
>real christianity hasn't been tried yet
meme?

>>15232527
its the official slave morality manifesto

>>15232600
Where’s the lie in them? “Goofy”?
Clinging to religion is goofy

>>15232685
Alright alright, even ignoring any particular organized religion, can you explain how it's reasonable to deny that God exists? It seems pretty inescapable that if you grant that a positive attribute exists, then a being with every positive attribute exists. Even the Greeks figured that one out. Godel's argument seems to be the best one at articulating it.

Every time I present these arguments to someone who denies that a god exists, they go full schizo and start denying that we can know any truth, or that math is entirely a human construction, or some other bizarre tirade.

>>15232527
Because it was written by Greek scholars larping as a new religion based on Judaism

>>15232710
one can believe in a god without following a religion

>>15232721
That's my point. I myself don't follow any religion, but it appears to me that these arguments for God's existence logically follow.

>>15232647
Nietzsche would agree with you.

>>15232710
Nietzsche doesn't deny God exists, he denies that anyone can know God and points out that God as a motivator of values at a societal level no longer exists.

>>15232738
>But let me reveal my heart entirely unto you, my friends: if there were gods, how could I endure it not to be a god! Hence there are no Gods. Though I drew this conclusion, now it draws me.

>>15232624
>paul bad

>>15232743
>saul good

>>15232710
>It seems pretty inescapable that if you grant that a positive attribute exists, then a being with every positive attribute exists. Even the Greek
Hahah. Wtf?
It does not stand to figure any such thing. Did you see my post about the subjectivity of beauty? It doesn’t deny there being beauty, or math or truth, it’s just that there’s grey areas in between.

>Nietzsche wasn’t an atheist. ...
If there is, or WAS, some green goblin king at the “start” of the universe, his existence isn’t apparent much less worshipful

>>15232742
And what's the context of that, anon?

>>15232803
>It does not stand to figure any such thing. Did you see my post about the subjectivity of beauty? It doesn’t deny there being beauty, or math or truth, it’s just that there’s grey areas in between.
Not sure what you're talking about but even if beauty is subjective, it isn't relevant to the argument at hand here. Beauty exists, therefore it is a positive thing in the world (I don't mean that is preferable, I mean positiveness as in it has existence). Since it is a positive thing in the world, it works quite well towards proving that thing with full positive existence exists.

>If there is, or WAS, some green goblin king at the “start” of the universe, his existence isn’t apparent much less worshipful
What you're doing here is anthropomorphizing something that has every positive attribute, which entails full goodness, full justice, etc. Not a particularly good counterargument.

>>15232710
I know this is a shitpost but I feel like sharing an insight I just had
Since this line of argument has already been retroactively refuted by Aquinas, Kant, etc, I assume people don't pay it enough mind to engage it seriously... but does it actually just fall apart the moment you deny the law of the excluded middle?
Brouwer would be so proud of me bros

>>15232771
>>15232743
If i just quote what the other side says with an Npc image, im right.

>>15232825
It’s a silly thing to imbue it with. A kabob skewer of meat has wonderful smelling flesh, tasty and nourishing, but it came from the death of a creature.
>positive attributes
Metaphysical hooy. This is Platonic garbage right?

>>15232873
>tasty and nourishing, but it came from the death of a creature.
Good thing I'm unironically vegetarian.

>Metaphysical hooy. This is Platonic garbage right?
Not really. Restated, positiveness is something that has existence. For instance, a guitar has positive existence.

>>15232873
>kabob skewer of meat has wonderful smelling flesh, tasty and nourishing
>the tranny is unironically a turk
its only gets worse

>>15232771
Paul of Tarsus (pbuh) was the greatest Apostle.

>>15232910
the Karl Marx of the Ancient World

>>15232527
Because it is just the story about a bunch of poorfags in rags going around with tears in their eyes and talking about the love of Jesus. Jesus is just spitting at people and talking a bunch of nonsense. It is a really shit story.

The only decent parts are when Paul gets shipwrecked. Although compared to stuff like the Odyssey, that part is also shit.

>>15232910
Who?

>>15232916
>God made men. But thanks to original sin we are men in the image of our world, earning our bread in the sweat of our brow. For five hundred thousand years, God impassively contemplated the spectacle of which He is the author. Then one day He decided to send upon earth His only son. You remember the details of that complicated story! Those who don't believe should, it seems, have faith imposed on them by force. If God is truly interested in men being enlightened, one wonders why He resorts to torture for that purpose. While we're on the subject, let's add that, even amongst those who claim to be good Catholics, very few really believe in this humbug. Only old women, who have given up everything because life has already withdrawn from them, go regularly to church. All that's dead wood—and one shouldn't waste one's time in concerning oneself with such brains.
-Adolf Hitler

>>15232886
>a guitar has positive existence.
In a mathematical way of speaking. It is an invention that makes sounds human ears are amused by. Animals know little of it. The deaf know nothing of it. The humans that lived before it’s invention. But what about it? The attributes we give it are subjective. Some people will hate the hear it. Like some hate the electric guitar.

>>15232898
I’m unironically hungry. am I Hungarian now?

>>15232932
>In a mathematical way of speaking. It is an invention that makes sounds human ears are amused by. Animals know little of it. The deaf know nothing of it. The humans that lived before it’s invention. But what about it? The attributes we give it are subjective. Some people will hate the hear it. Like some hate the electric guitar.
I'm not talking about positiveness as in its pleasant or preferable, I'm talking about positiveness as in it has existence. So, a guitar has positiveness insofar as it exists.

>>15232947
It’s nothing without the craftsman and the guitarist.

>>15232829
excluded middle is not about truth in the usual sense but about constructive proofs of things, i.e. providing an example of something to show it exists. it's pretty obvious that if you're going to prove God exist you're not going to prove existence constructively, if only because by definition you can't write down God.

>>15232803
The Unmoved Mover is apparent, though the fact that you already call the Mover a green goblin king shows you harbor preconceived notions of the mover that are inaccurate. What aspect of the Mover would be a color, or a physical race such as a Goblin? I understand king, but why do you bring name-calling to the mover? The mover is immaterial.

>>15232650
Protestants will be Prots

>>15232710
What does 'positive' mean in this context? true? and what the hell is assertion C supposed to mean? and why would such a thing as an essence have any existence beyond that of a mechanism in our brains?

>>15232622
did you miss Chesterton?

>>15233039
you mean the guy who looks like pic related?

>>15233032
>What does 'positive' mean in this context?
read the thread
>what the hell is assertion C supposed to mean
it's possible that god exists
>why would such a thing as an essence have any existence beyond that of a mechanism in our brains?
doesn't matter if an essence is metaphysically real as is the case in thomism or aristotelianism, in the argument the word is just used to describe something

>>15233013
>The Unmoved Mover
>Aristotle
>Epicurus facepalm.gif
It isn’t apparent and there is no immaterial moving/creating the material