/lit/ - Literature

ah yes, philosophy 101.

Funny that he's also a death penalty advocate (which is one of his more based positions).

Slide thread

>>15215115
There is no god, and murder is still wrong. Objective facts.

>>15215115
And this is why we must support Israel.

>>15215198
he's only for murder if it's against people he thinks deserve it, like murderers, rapists and palestinians

>yes, and?

>>15215206
Stop being a cucked atheist and be a based one who isn’t too pussy to proclaim that might makes right, nature is violent and all ideas about right and wrong are mere matters of convention and cope

If there is no God racemixing is morally justifiable, if there is a God racemixing is morally justifiable

>>15215308
>Don’t be an atheist, be a fascist who justifies murder based on outdated 19th century ideas about humanity

>>15215320
>fascism is when you kill people
Nature is fascist by this liberal-tier analysis

God is real, and murder is wrong.

>>15215320
>observable facts of reality are outdated 19th century ideas
Absolutely based and "desert of the real"pilled

>>15215115
That's true, it's not wrong. What's your point?

>>15215115
Not only is there no God, but there are also circumstances in which murder is an absolute good.

>>15215115
Wait, but isnt murder defined as an immoral killing? So by the logic of without god there is no morality. Wouldn't that mean without god their is no murder?

>>15215115

>>15215415
If the act was good, it wouldn't be murder. Bet you won't give an example.

>>15215115
That pic clearly shows the murderer a moment away from being smited by the universe. Materialists: 1 ; Xtians: O

>>15215115
And?

>>15215430
Yes. There are only acts of killing then, no murdering. And if we take this further, and say that there aren't souls either... then there's no acts of killing either.

>>15215308
>might makes right
Not an intrinsic function of reality, this is a observation made by people
>nature is violent
Nature is. People see violence.
>all ideas about right and wrong are
Largely grounded in millions of years of individual activity being baked into genetic coding as instinctual motivation. It's been wrong to murder people for basically all of human history. inb4 you over simplify and try to define every action that ends a life as murder

You're dumb as shit. Nothing you said is remotely correct but boy do you sound fucking confident about it.

>>15215301
Based and Stirner pilled

>>15215450
>If the act was good, it wouldn't be murder.
Since when was that a part of the definition of murder?

>>15215265
Kek

>>15215537
Since abortion stopped to be considered as such.

>>15215330
It is in a society

I'm more of a forced labour guy

>>15215115
someones gonna need to explain the logic behind that statement because i dont follow

>>15215115
>God
Metaphysic.

Labeling it god is just far too simplistic, as it removes all other non-divine based faith from the discussion.

Then again, this is PragerU

>>15215833
He's saying that if God can't tell you what to do there would be no set guidelines for everyone to follow and agree on. It is a retarded statement.

>>15215833

adherents of religions are such horrible people that they would go out and start murdering everyone to get their way the second they learned that god doesn't exist,* since they conceive that there's not real metaphysical reason not to. They would then by and large be eventually constrained by the very physical reality of surviving family members and the general public who would spontaneously lynch them in tribal mob justice, as a corrective, the real restraint which has always existed in the usual course of human history.

*Everyone does that anyway, of course, and is only really constrained by the latter reality. The human animal has both memory and moral imagination, from which morality proceeds. Of course one can point to abjectly evil** situations like present-day narco-Mexico, but these just cynically go to prove the above since the situation is asymmetric, with a powerful narco elite and an abject peasantry. Which is true: when the power differential changes, or when things change in general terms, the morality changes, because moral relativism is true.

**Do not say: "you don't understand what evil is because bla-de-bla you didn't read the Church Fathers bla-de-blah it doesn't involve god". In its broadest sense, evil has been very properly and obviously understood by every human, in every period of history, as that which is deleterious to humans, and not as that which is contrary to the will of god (sin). The dogma was an anthropological accretion of afterthought, though it has by now acquired some length of tradition lending it unwarranted legitimacy.

>>15215115
If there is no God, we are God, and our morals define what's wrong. So if we believe murder is wrong, it is.

>>15215909
tldr
>>15215849
tldr

Honestly as someone who believes in God, nothing pains me more than these sort of pathetic gotcha arguments. They don't actually serve the purpose of convincing an unconvinced party, it's just self-congratulatory garbage. It physically hurts to be associated with this

>>15215469
>implying you are staying anything true
Lamo just accept the fact that you have absolutely no basis for good or evil.
Even if morality is some genetic mutation it's not objective it's just something that was useful for survival you have no reason to follow it.

>>15215537
>Since when was that a part of the definition of murder?
Since forever. Read a book, nigger.

>>15216070
>Honestly as someone who believes in God

i would like to murder people who make these shitty threads
i think that would be highly justifiable

>>15215115
True

>>15215115
Morality literally doesn't exist. It's a social construct. There are only actions and consequences.

>>15216101
Can you give me any examples? A search turned up "murder" largely in the context of law as a legally unjustifiable act of homicide. I get the feeling that PragerU, and pretty much everyone else who uses this meme argument, is talking about homicide more generally, and not the legal concept.

>>15215909
Oh no, I would be deeply uncomfortable with the idea of killing anybody even if I were convinced that God does not exist. I'm merely acknowledging that I would have no authoritative claim to any moral imperative beyond that emotional, subjective feeling of discomfort, which is ultimately preferential and thus arbitrary.

As for the whole mob justice angle. Well, we aren't really talking about any sort of moral law restraining the behaviour of people, it's just a question of who has the power to impose their will over who. Claims to rightness or wrongness carry little weight if you don't have the means to retaliate against wrongness and enforce rightness.

>>15215115
prageru and most people already act as such, the crimes they can get away with they do

>>15215308
>nature is violent
I bet you wouldn't be saying that if you got raped as your entire family was murdered right in front of you. We are social, intelligent beings. Apes don't murder each other unless they're fighting for territory or a female. Wolves don't fuck with other packs, they stay in their area and howl to let neighboring packs know they're in their spot and don't want any trouble.
You, on the other hand, are a sniveling retard who will always be shunned by more intelligent beings, because we know better. Ideas about right and wrong are precisely what make up great civilizations and what led us to the top of the food chain. Backwards edgelords like you only stump our progress

>>15216533
very based sir

>>15216533
Fuck even empires that conquered looked to assimilate the people they conquered, not exterminate them. By adopting gods or aspects of their cultures.

Might makes right is bullshit

Can't argue with that!

>>15215265
>he's only for murder if it's against people he thinks deserve it, like niggers, jews and palestinians
yep, I'm calling it based

>>15216070
Which God do you believe in? And what makes this god better than other gods?

If there is a God, gassing Christians is justified because they're going to heaven earlier according to their cucked logic. Should we genocide Christians based on this assumption?

>>15216654
that but it's actually everyone Israel points at and tells you to murder

>>15216070
its true, its not a gotcha argument

>>15215308
Retard detected.

>>15216971
No because amongst a myriad of other reasons, such as the sanctity of life, if a Christian God exists then according to his objective morality murder is wrong, so genociding Christians is wrong.

>>15217069
It's bad for the killer but good for the killed. Martyrs used to commit petty crimes to get skinned alive and get a free pass to heaven.

>>15215115
The entire idea of absolute right and absolute wrong is a concept only comprehensible to the religious mind. The sentence 'murder isn't wrong' means nothing to the postmodernist, because it is a property without an object to describe. To WHO is murder not wrong if God does not exist? For WHO does God not exist? Can God exist for some people and not others? And so on and so forth.
For what it matters, if the question means what I think it means which is 'people who don' in believe in God won't understand that murder is objectively wrong', he is right. A man without knowledge of God, the total atheist who does not even know of the God-concept enough to deny it, will have no morality.

>>15215909
Stupid child. Your entire atheist moral system is based on the religious moral system. It's basically a reskin of the Bible. You're just as devoutly religious as your openly religious ancestors, only that you worship unconsciously instead of consciously.

>>15217138
And your entire moral system is based on stoicism and platonism.

>>15217145
even if that is true witch is not, they still use THE good as something metaphysical real, witch no atheist can account for.

>>15216533
> Ideas about right and wrong are precisely what make up great civilizations and what led us to the top of the food chain

civilization as we know it was built by people justifying mass genocide and enslavement and rape conquering to create wealthy flourishing societies that evolved and became increasingly complex as weaker ones were consumed like a wolf consumes its prey for nourishment

>>15217163
Christians literally integrated the divine trinity of neoplatonism in their system and derived much of their morals from the stoics lmao. Without the greeks you'd have to resort to bronze age jewish laws to justify your morals.
>witch no atheist can account for.
Atheists are nu-theists themselves, they just replace God with the big bang and worship scientists or marvel super heroes as their secondary Gods/saints.

>>15215198
Is he a libertarian?