/lit/ - Literature

>>15212586
Read Roger Scruton

>>15212586
Oswald Spengler's Decline of the West

>>15212586
> why we cannot build like this anymore?
it's the protestant's fault

>>15212586
We can it's just expensive. Most accessible text is from Alain de Botton of all fucking people, The Architecture of Happiness. It's a fairly decent book.

>>15212586
Architecture freshman textbooks, probably.

>>15212586
europe is a catholic civilization at its roots.
america is a deeply protestant "civilization".
protestantism is inherently incompatible with art, this is why it started , in its purest form, as an iconoclast movement.

>>15212586
David Watkin - Morality and Architecture

>>15212586
Unironically, it's divine influence.

>>15212586
>why everywhere is so ugly in America?
boomers
/n/ had a thread on iirc kansas city's destruction by boomer hands.

>>15212586

No one is willing to finance it. This is the only real reason.

>>15212755
>protestantism is inherently incompatible with art

>>15212586
TL;DR the expertise to build things in beautiful ways is gone. There are so few ppl that know how to do it that it becomes prohibitively expensive

>>15212650
Why of all fucking people? He’s a based nice guy

>>15212586
It’s not even beautiful

Roger scruton

>>15212911
what ethnicity are you

>>15212897
>TL;DR the expertise to build things in beautiful ways is gone. There are so few ppl that know how to do it that it becomes prohibitively expensive
Where do I learn to do these things? Where do I find an apprenticeship to learn? Books?

>>15212900
He tends to portray really very niche and sometimes poorly researched views on philosophers and philosophy as standard views, which is annoying.

Another good one would be the books by Mario Salvadori Why Building's Stand Up/Fall Down, that has some discussion in there although it's a little more technical and aimed at early engineers, also less focus on early building ideas really. Still accessible. I think J.E. Gordon's Science of Strong Materials will have some explanation too, but it's been a long time since I read it. Buttresses come up a lot in anything to do with structural engineering history pretty much.

>>15212897
>There are so few ppl that know how to do it that it becomes prohibitively expensive
That's not the issue at all, in fact a similar idea of building was used to build the Burj Khalifa. The expense is that man hours are expensive so cutting stone and maintenance is expensive.

>>15212586
1. Lack of culture
2. Lack if slave labour

>>15212896
at first, protestants forbade music in church. of course in later times they got urbanized under the catholic influence. indeed he re-took medieval counterpoint, which is the non plus ultra of catholicism in art.

Let's be honest.
If you cannot appreciate the aesthetic of brutalism architecture, comprehend the intensity behind "Modern art", etc. you are failing at the human spirit.

>>15212586
Because beauty is fascist/white supremacist

>>15212995
None of the cathedrals were built with slave labour

>>15213169
You're splitting hairs really.

>>15212586
Live in a different culture now.
Culture dictates how art should look like.

>>15212586
Because people build thousands of skyscrapers and other big buildings per year

>>15213169
They weren’t actual slaves. Doubt they were paid much though

>>15213125
what is it with architecture plebs and brutalism. it's not even modern anymore. you're like 100 years late.

>>15212650
>We can it's just expensive
>>15212885
>No one is willing to finance it. This is the only real reason.
>>15212995
>2. Lack if slave labour
wrong. All hideous mega buildings cost billions of dollars, and there's no shortage of them being built

>>15213200
it is the msot frequently hated upon architecture style by tradfags next to Bauhaus

>>15213177
So we should believe instead that they were built with slave labor because you prefer it to be that way, even if it's not true?

>>15213198
>>15213177
My ancestors were church builders and I can trace back my genealogy to the early 1100s. Cathedral building is an esoteric discipline that has been lost and mostly forgotten. There is still a very small group of initiates who continue to spread the knowledge.

>>15212588
>the man who sold his soul to sell cigarettes
Ugly man. Corrupted like all the rest.

We could build whatever we like, ah, but for the fact we are slaves to a ruling class. In a shackles of debt.

>>15212995
There’s slaves, there’s also no desire to venerate god/churchmen.

>>15213198
Same with the pyramids. Not technically slaves.

>>15213227
It's whether you want to consider wage slavery as slavery, or more exactly in this case massive economic disparity between the richest and the poorest and some of the poorest being given busy work. You can read that comment as saying that the wages were extremely low compared to today, and that's accurate.

>>15213230
>Cathedral building is an esoteric discipline
It isn't, it's not a complicated design concept and I know plenty of people who work in building restorations in Britain who have worked on gothic cathedrals.

>>15213274
>It isn't, it's not a complicated design concept and I know plenty of people who work in building restorations in Britain who have worked on gothic cathedrals.
... kill yourself anglo

>>15213289
It's quite a limited geographical area that these things exist in, also Britain is more than just "Anglos", and also probably the best place to see this kind of architecture.

>>15213230
They better start writing shit down then, although I think you are exaggerating.

>>15213208

>hideous mega buildings cost billions of dollars

Yeah and the people who build them get a return on their investment. Jesus Christ man were you dropped on your head as a child?

Let's say I build a skyscraper for 3 billion dollars. I then rent it out to globohomocorp.inc while letting it appreciate in value (assuming I built it in a developing economy like a non-retard would).

Now let's say I build a beautiful cathedral for, I don't know, 100 million? Then what? People get to enjoy it? How do I benefit?

So even though the hideous mega building is 40x the cost of a cathedral, I get an easier and less risky return on my investment.

Let me bore it into your skull one more time: It's not that the money doesn't exist, it's just that no one is willing to finance it. And for good reason.

>>15213274
A simple "yes" would have worked.

>>15212586
Need to bring back patronage in the arts.

>>15213333
No.

>>15212586
tfw when you go to an Eastern European country that lauds its "beautiful ancient stone churches" and they're completely cannibalized stone from Roman provincial cities...

>>15213337
We have. I mean there's patreon for one.

>>15213347
Why not just give rich people tax breaks for spending their money as patrons of the arts, sciences, etc.? Historically, arts developed the most under a decentralized system of patronage like this. It's not like the US Government needs more money.

>>15212915

Irish

>>15213367
>>15213347
I forgot to add that this is already done in physics, Jim Simons spends a lot of money financing pure math and physics research.

>>15213367
You can do, but this can't be set up on the patron's side. There needs to be a charity or similar tax exempt body, this could award grants or be set up by an artist themselves. This is quite a common set up with theatres, although not universally done.

>>15213318
So, fuck capitalism?

>>15213387
Because you don't want your buildings to be useful, you want them to look like old buildings you think are pretty?

Just move to Las Vegas dude.

>>15213318
>implying only non-commercial buildings can be beautiful
again, why not make a beautiful shopping mall, or train station, or whatever? it costs the exact same as making it ugly

>>15213380
I'm thinking of something closer to "Allow the rich to buy titles/power, but require them to spend $X per year on arts, sciences, etc."

>>15213406
No? Doing actually beautiful stuff is way more expensive.

>>15213406
Do you think all the buildings from earlier time periods were beautiful? All the ugly ones end up dilapidated and are torn down, you're getting a biased selection.

>>15213417
$100 m for this museum.
it costs just as much, if not more, to make something ugly.

>>15213406

>It costs the exact same as making it ugly

Nigger have you seen a cathedral? Can you imagine the hours put into the little sculptures, the attention to detail? Of course it wouldn't cost the same.

>>15213435
There's also the matter of "buy once, cry once"
All these modern buildings built with concrete, caulking, etc. are all going to fall apart decades before traditionally built buildings.

>>15213531
>Impoverished medieval society based on agriculture can afford to build some of the most gorgeous buildings in the history of the world
>hypermodern post industrialist society that has sent men to the moon can only afford drywall and concrete monstrosities

>>15213589
We spend most of that money on gibs for third worlders, pointless administration, or allowing grandpa to live to 86 instead of 85.

>>15213435

>Basque architecture

And these fucks want independence what a joke.

>>15213589
Why do Americans build everything with drywall? You guys are so rich, just build with brick and mortar like everyone else. Plus houses in America are so expensive

>>15213577
>are all going to fall apart decades before traditionally built buildings.
Inaccurate. There's a reason NY has a lot of masonry buildings and an eternal scaffolding plague, shit falls apart pretty quickly and needs continuous maintenance. A well designed modern building is generally rugged and usable for something in the region of at least 100 years, although it's less in some instances. Very little maintenance required, and that's where the big savings come in. I mean, look at the OP. That shit really lasted didn't it?

>>15213589

>Impoverished medieval society based on agriculture can afford to build some of the most gorgeous buildings in the history of the world

Yeah and it usually took them like three generations. The monstrosities are made to be used, not an act of worship.

So I say to you again, who will finance it?

>>15213616

>Traditionally built buildings
>NY

Can you please just alt+f4? Fucking burgers reeee.

>>15213616
>shit falls apart pretty quickly

>>15213658
They're basically piles of rock, so about as structurally simple as you can get, but also all the limestone facing has gone. They were perfect white mountains, they have massively dilapidated. They've lasted well, but the main purpose of our buildings are not related to burials of our ruler-gods.

>>15213634
>>Traditionally built buildings
>>NY
Are we talking masonry or not? It's a fact of any city with masonry buildings, they spend a significant amount of time being fixed up because they fall apart like toilet paper in a shitter. NY happens to be a good example because there are so many packed together so it's a well known thing to anyone who knows anything about the city.

>>15213615
Houses are so expensive because of land prices mostly.

>>15213691
>They're basically piles of rock, so about as structurally simple
seamlessly fitted mortarless giant blocks of granite

>>15213699
SOOOO much FLOOORSPACE WOOW.

>>15212586
post modernism is a rebellion against nature it sees laws of reality as oppressive

>>15213699
It looks like a modern carpark with a damp problem

>>15213732
no modern carpark will be around in 4500 years still practically undisturbed

>>15212896

>Bach

That's not American. Plus, anon was relating to the concept and connection of protestantism and art in American culture, which is virtually nonexistent.

>>15213737
Not with a damp problem.

>>15212586
>>15212612
>>15212650
>>15212755
>>15212865
>>15212995
real answer: capitalism is an absolutely soulless mode of production. English buildings are also shit

>>15213754
>English buildings are also shit
Sorry, do you like this style of building or don't you?

>>15212885
It’s not the only reason. We also don’t have anyone who is trained in building this kind of architecture. Also, where would we put it? Places like this don’t fly in cities anymore, which brings me to last point. Nobody wants this anymore. We, here on /lit/, appreciate this kind of stuff but the mass of Americans especially the ones with the money don’t. They want more shoebox skyscrapers and trendy patio bars.

>>15213789
>We also don’t have anyone who is trained in building this kind of architecture.
What do you think is lost?

>>15212586
Because retarded design like this gets bugs and other bullshit inside, whereas their designated area is outside or the fuck away from anywhere a human inhabits. Fucking disgusting, imagine basking in the sunlight and having an insect join you, bleugh

>>15213374
He spends more money coming up with ways to be a financial parasite on the people.

>>15212586
It's fucking expensive dude

>>15213796
what did bugs ever do to you

>>15213230
>I can trace back my genealogy to the early 1100s
Let me guess, you're a direct descendant of William the Conquerer and Charlemagne too. God Americans are so retarded.

>>15213778
that's when England was still feudal

>>15213877
What period of time do you think we're talking about?