/lit/ - Literature

> Plato indeed traveled to the region of Israel

Source please

>>15182831
>The early apologists, both Jewish and Christian, maintained that Plato learned from Moses, that he was Moses speaking Attic Greek. The most notable of these was Eusebius of Caesarea, who, in his work The Preparation of the Gospel, argued the case in great detail and listed all those who had held such views before him. Eusebius and the other apologists were probably correct.

Bump for Plato and God :)

People like Origen have also thought that some of the Greek philosophers had an influence of the Israelite writings. Origen loved the philosophers, of course most in that school of Alexandria loved such.

>>15182872
nothing here even slightly suggests anything about him going to Israel you moron

I understand this viewpoint is heavily criticized, but is it at all possible Plato was not at least heavily aware of the ancient Judaic laws and God's revelations in the kingdom of Israel (at the time the kingdom of Persia)?

I mean, lets be honest here, it was called the cradle of civilization for a reason. It tangentially influenced everything that came after it. To criticize this point is to assume that people lived in cultural 'bubbles' at that point. Which, unlike the rest of the world not centered in modern day Europe and the Middle East, was just not the case.

>>15182904
>Insinuating that he is Moses doesn't suggest him going to Israel

I guess Moses wasn't from Israel. Time to disregard this point and pull some other bullshit out of your hat, retarded atheist.

>>15182904
>>15182914
But I suppose it might be a legitimate claim he did not travel to Israel. Many scholars understand he learned Hebrew however.

>>15182914
>Plato is Moses
Haven’t heard this conspiracy theory before. Sounds like a funny one.

Just another insane cringe cope by chirstcucks and kikes alike to deal with the fact that the epitome of wisdom was penned by "pagan" "goyim" and not "G-d's chosen".

>>15182914
Are you retarded lol. Moses lived in 4th century Athens?

>>15182817
Dude you have it backwards, the Old Tertament is based on Plato, Gmirkin proved years ago that the Jews started with the Greeks.
Duh.

>>15182993
I mean, I could even refer you to the post right above you.

The reason why the theories are the way they are is because of the chronology. Obviously the Tanakh came before Socrates and Plato.

>>15183069
The chronology has been changed, the OT was not even WRITTEN until c. 272 b.c.

>>15183117
That's a minority view bud. Not that mine isn't, but you're challenging something that would radically change many different things here. :3

>>15183117
This claims nothing. It just implies that Septuagint’s translation was composition and not translation. This is so retarded and does not dispute anything at all.

>>15182817
Atlantis —> Egypt —> Old Testament esotericism
................... |
................... V
................... Greek mystery schools and Greek philosophy

>>15182817
Christians are afraid to look into the amazing mess of Old Testament and New Testament esotericism/Hellenic philosophy/Greek mystery schools/Hermeticism/Gnosticism/Neoplatonism all interacting in a sort of melting pot. They want “Christianity” to be an ultimately distinct tradition cut off from all other traditions clearly and neatly, and all based off of an expurgated version of the Bible, too. Sounds controversial but that’s how it really is.

>>15182817
>:3
not this guy again

>>15184295
lmao OP btfo

>>15184327
Christian here and I believe egyptian mystagogues had access to noetic revelation (not fully legitimate Revelation like that of John for example), I respect Saint Pythagoras and believe Plato was quasi-divine.

>>15182817
I read a paper once (from an Islamic scholar) which postulated Socrates was a messenger of God but ended up the people with we can’t know because only God knows.

His reasoning was because Socrates argued for the immorality of the soul and the practice of working on your soul and not the body. And also his use of God as singular instead of plural. Also he lived a poor life and was against taking people’s money because it would anger God. Interesting stuff.

>>15182914
The bible explicitly says Moses was barred from entering Canaan before it was colonized by the Hebrews. He died without seeing the promised land. That's provided you grant historicity to that part of the Bible, which doesn't seem like a wise move. Anyway by any reasonable estimation (and provided he actually existed) Moses would have been a solid 300 years older than Plato at the latest.

>>15182905
Neoplatonism acknowledged judaism as a "venerable" religion early on (the Greek and the Romans had a fetish for old things after all). I'm not sure about Plato, but at the very least his most prominent successor (save Aristotle himself) were aware of the existence of that religion.

>>15184327
That's pretty uncontroversial in historical circles and many ancient historian are Christians.

>>15182817
>tl;dr

I'm sure a king such a Solomon would have wanted to gather and exchange knowledge. Open people who love ideas would definitely tend to want to travel and search out new things.

>>15184377
>>15184423
Fair points, I was more thinking of a strawman average Christian on the street instead of scholars, historians, etc. I’m an edgy perennialist and hate centralizing spiritual truth around any one historical movement, body of texts, etc., although I also believe Christ and various Biblical prophets were truly divine or divinely inspired.

>>15184382
https://voca.ro/h1XXox4v0B1

Deserves a vocal reply :3

>>15182905
>I mean, lets be honest here, it was called the cradle of civilization for a reason. It tangentially influenced everything that came after it
You're thinking of Egypt and Mesopotamia though. Jews were low tier Canaanite tribal niggers until around the same time the Greeks started forming city-states.

>>15184490
Fair enough, but that area did influence Greek theology and was where old revelations from God happened, so if those texts didn't exist it just really proves God is real, since God is actually who influenced Plato, not just Moses.

>>15184436
Solomon was king of an irrelevant shithole. It is very unlikely he would attract a lot of scholars to his "kingdom".

>>15184521
Ah atheists, reading their posts is truly humorous.

>>15184521
Kings had the luxury of learning and of books. It's pretty obvious that with such a limited amount of writings in their times that there would be a demand for those who made books and translations. Royalty would have the highest chance of having people to translate things for them. It doesn't matter if a place is Tiny and almost unheard of if it has literature of any value. they did not live in a modern world with literally billions of books to choose from.

>>15182817
Please stop trying to kikewash european history, it’s extremely problematic

>>15184532
Except that this is about history, not religion. Implying that Judea was anything other than a shithole, that is before British occupation and after it, is just dumb.

>>15184501
>but that area did influence Greek theology and was where old revelations from God happened
They had some influence from Phoenicians who (like the Israelites) were often times taking their own myths and theology from Mesopotamia.
>so if those texts didn't exist it just really proves God is real, since God is actually who influenced Plato, not just Moses.
Pic related

>>15184600
>God interacting with humanity is cringe.

Are you sure you should be anywhere around books?

>>15184585
I don't know what you're talking about, but the reason why the Israelites were so successful was because of divine intervention. They were able to overcome all enemies that surrounded them and consistently maintain their kingdom for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Your ''''academic''''' sarcastic rhetoric doesn't work here, moron. Israel was not by any stretch of the imagination 'unsuccessful', they may not have had the luxuries of the kingdom of Rome, for instance, but for that time period they were extremely efficient. It is commonly accepted this is due to God's influence.

>>15184655
>israelites
>successful
What?
>claimants of small shithole in the Levant
>continuously occupied
>entire population becomes slaves in Egypt and Persia
>Greeks btfo for a few hundred years
>Romans btfo them some more for a few hundred years more
Not exactly the history of a successful kingdom or people. They only thing one can say they've been successful in is in surviving. Pretty much all other ancient peoples are gone except the Jews. But then again I doubt you would agree with this part since you're probably a Christian and do not even think modern day Jews are real. So... then they've been successful in nothing.

>>15184655
>Israelites were so successful

Lmao I actually laughed. How is it successful to be enslaved by Egyptians, Babilonians and almost any other bigger kingdom in the region? How is it successful to be almost completely wiped out by Hadrian because he outlawed the barbaric practice of child mutilation?

>It is commonly accepted this is due to God's influence.

No, it's not. Not one person accepts this who is not of your religion.

>>15182914
Moses is from Egypt dipshit

>>15184585
Your intellect is a shithole

>>15184942
It took a while but came to post this too. What the hell.

>>15184916
>Pretty much all other ancient peoples are gone except the Jews.
Greeks, Chinese, Persians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Armenians....There's tons of people from ancient history who are still around anon.

>>15184923
You mean the correct religion? The one that believes in God, which contains almost the entirety of religions in the first place?

Ok, whew that sure is a minority. I thank God every day that people like you will meet fire when you die.

>>15185253
And I thank Jove every day that my dick isn't mutilated like yours.

>>15182817
>>15182872
No shit that Christians want Plato to be proto-Christian and will grasp at straws to 'prove it'
What else is new?
Thoth is Hermes is Adam is Christ? You don't say
Get a brain

>>15182817
Holy are Christcucks really trying to spout that Plato (and the inception of Western philosphy) was inspired by the Bible.

Lmao you people really have no limit to the depths of intellectual dishonesty you're willing to go to, do you?

>>15185176
Of those only the Chinese remain. The rest do not maintain their culture and religion from ancient times.

example: Greeks can not be said to be the same people as the ancient Greeks because modern Greeks would say they are dirty goyims and burn them at the stake.

>>15182817
The description of Hell he gives in Gorgias is very similar to the Christian concept of Eternal Damnation.

>>15184382
He also claimed to have been possessed by a daimon when he gave his speech in Apology.

>>15182993
Russell Gmirkin is a fraud. He's not a trained scholar and there's a lot of textual critical evidence which goes against his thesis.

>>15185923
Jew are arguably just as distant from their ancient ancestors as Greeks are if not more so.
>Lived away from their homeland for nearly two millenia
>Intermixed with people from wherever they settled over the centuries
>Adopted different languages, cultures, and customs from their hosts
>Religion itself is so radically different that Jew from the time of Jesus probably wouldn't recognize it either
Really the only similarity at this point is that both ancient and modern Jews call themselves Jews.

>>15182817
It’s another example of Christians torturing the truth to pretend their religion isn’t just Judaism wearing Platonism’s skin whilst actually being far less interested in metaphysics than they are in their personal watchful God telling them how to live

>>15184633
>God is personal enough to interact with humanity
Extreme mental retardation

>>15186782
>concept that predates Christianity by centuries is similar
>he was totally proto-Christian, Christianity couldnt possibly have copied it

>>15187005
I don't think he was proto-Christian at all but what he describes is literally Judgment Day. You have to admit it is almost identical.

>>15182817
Homer had travelled to Ulster and was familiar with the Táin Bó Cúailnge and Achilles was really an expy of Cú Chulainn (who historically existed, unlike Achilles) adapted to Greek sensibilities.

Source: same place early Christians got all this evidence that Plato read the Bible.