/lit/ - Literature

>>15170704
Don't think so. He just had a greater mind than most people.

>>15170704
I mean he had a wife kids and a couple mistresses, he was most likely chillin

Also he was fluent in like 10+ languages including ancient copt, the dude is nothing like u and me

>>15170704
Nope, he was an absolute CHAD. Do you how many patients that guy fucked?

He probably had a mild form of schizophrenia, most intelligent people tend to have unlocked minds

>>15170704
well he wrote a book on fae folk and, get this, UF fkkng Os...

also he and bff freud had several discussions regarding synchronicity often accompanied by phenomena which they both concluded was in concert w/ their discussions.. really interesting.

but yes, a complete nutjob.

>>15170852
yes frenz, cross-reference Jung, Freud, & Synchronicity for some rabbit-hole shyjt

>>15170852
holy BASED Jung

>>15170838
something akin to that of forensic profilers.

fkkng making connections where none exist..

lunatic fringe.

>>15170878
i kno right?

>>15170884
>fkkng making connections where none exist
Everything is intrinsically tied together

>>15170828
Does having a wife and kids immediately make someone respectable and excuses them being outside of the norm?

>>15170897
citation: my ass

stop trying to give order to things that are not quantitative in nature you imbecile

>>15170897
schizo defense if i evr heard one..

but, i like it nonetheless.

>>15170906
He had sources of stability.

>>15170906
It used too, yes. A unmarried man wasn't very respectable, and often couldn't take political positions

>>15170852
I’m afraid of aliens bros

>>15170704
this man haunts me

he may not be schizophrenic, but my attempts to be as intelligent as him will surely send me off a building

>>15171109
This.

>>15170704
schizo? yes. based? also yes.

>>15171109
I've tried to read man and his symbols but I didn't find it very stimulating like reading some of Freuds stuff. Is there a better way to read Jung to get the basics of his thinking?

>>15170997
based incel bullying

>>15171138
He says things in an easy way because of his total command of the concepts. What should startle you is your lack of ability to do the same.

>>15170908
even nature has order

>>15171150
Nature IS order, unfortunately.

>>15171146
Really made me think.

>>15171138
That book is big baka vibes it just catered really hard to weed hippies. Symbols of Transformation might be good of a start.

>>15170897
>>15170954
>schizo
It isn't schizo anon.

>>15171138
Man and his symbols is a horrible book and Jung never wanted to write it but had some dream shortly before he died that told him to hurry the fuck up and write the book because many laymen will find him through it.

The only good introduction to Jung in my opinion is modern man in search of a soul, but of course introductions can only do so much. After that read History of Modern Psychology and then Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious and then Pschology of the Unconscious and so on.

recently got into Jung and his interpretations of dreams pretty quickly made me realize I've fucked my life up beyond belief and you know I'm not happy at all anymore

never been torn down so quickly

>>15171246
Why tell us about your dream and what you think it means

>>15171228
Did he give in to Christianity in the end? Seemed like he (more so edinger) tried to rationalize it really hard

>>15170704
Not at all actually. He used rigorous psychology to analyze the supernatural. In this way he’s the opposite of a schizo because he used logic to demystify the mystical.

>>15171262
I only have dreams of either fighting for my life or running for my life

For the first 20 years of my life I always managed to win the fight or get away, now I don't win these events any more.

It seems each time I dream I am less effective at fighting/fleeing. For a while I was very good and would even get better. I was a great lucid dreamer and for the last few years I've been losing power over that.

Jung would probably say that it's because I've not fulfilled my role as a man and have only lived like a coward instead of living how I should be.

>>15171358
Finding order in something that has no order is called delusion

>>15171443
Archtypes cross cultures in ways that imply a degree of orderness, therefore quantifiable

>>15171443
How do you know it has no order unless you explore it?

>>15171465
Source: my ass

>>15171477
Are you a retard

Why am I even asking

>>15171483
Ah I see, you seemed to have misplaced the study that quantifiably proves jungian conception of archetypes cross cultures my mistake.

>>15171498
>waaaaa aaaaaa i want gibs

>>15170704
He was a sage who breathed new life into the ancient teachings on how to unfurl one's soul like lead into gold

>>15171333
Jung was a philosophical idealist, and as a result never asserted an actual quote un quote "exterior" metaphysical force. However he considered Christianity and secondly (Mahayana) Buddhism the two great religions of the world. An appreciation of Christianity runs throughout all his works, and yes especially his later. So much so he considers much of what one would call "Christian" to almost be larger than Christianity itself, such as the antichrist and so on.

By your wording, would I be wrong to guess you are a modern pagan?

>>15171424
It's almost always impossible to interpret singularly when a dream(commonly as vivid as running or fighting) is repeated on mass scale for many years. Something's about your life anon, find it, maybe find God.

no but he was a hack and a nazi-collaborator

>>15171615
>nazi-collaborator
Not true but it would be extremely based

>>15171558
I'm getting the idea that there's different acceptable levels at which you can function as a Christian, and the really high ones are very far removed yet still echo the mainstream central tendency. It was strange how he dismissed anchorites but seemed a bit Gnostic about the water stone parable for one thing, almost reminded me of Gregory of Nyssa's commentary on baptism. The one Jungian I know irl is a Gnostic apparently, though I couldn't say what kind, and there's a lot of those. I'm most likely a pagan, some sort of free spirit of nature, I just don't think holding to a white singular light of God is a responsible way to honor the place we came from. Can't say it's as exciting though as the image which usually comes to mind of worshipping idols of goats or putting flowers in my hair or having orgies in public baths of red wine though.

>>15171443
everything learned was once thought to have no order

>>15170704
how does one start with him? what prior reading should be done?

>>15172145
He has a intermediate-level entry requirement, it's not Heidegger where you're learning meta-language, it will be more than your average science textbook but nothing so awful like the old English of Descartes. He has a very concise way of organizing thoughts in sections.
Nothing can prepare you for something you haven't read. Do not fear indoctrination, otherwise you make yourself more vulnerable to the narcissistic sociopath that will charm you with grandeur and great dreams made reality. Be your own judge, know to entertain an idea without accepting it.

>>15171745
>It was strange how he dismissed anchorites but seemed a bit Gnostic about the water stone parable for one thing, almost reminded me of Gregory of Nyssa's commentary on baptism.
Lol yeah I almost forgot to say, Jung was probably more Gnostic than traditionally Christian. He greatly loved it but he still somewhat saw it as underneath "Christian" just the more mystical expression of it.

> I'm most likely a pagan, some sort of free spirit of nature, I just don't think holding to a white singular light of God is a responsible way to honor the place we came from.
Don't you think that one believes God can be manifest in the temporal, in history so to speak? Nevertheless it is good to see you are not "Christ-hating". I am a Christian but I greatly appreciate paganism, even Chesterton said the same, it is very disappointing however that we find so many Christian hating pagans on this site, though it is mainly pol.

>Can't say it's as exciting though as the image which usually comes to mind of worshipping idols of goats or putting flowers in my hair or having orgies in public baths of red wine though.
haha well I'm not sure it was always so fantastical as ever but it does have a beautiful character.

>>15172398
>Do not fear indoctrination, otherwise you make yourself more vulnerable to the narcissistic sociopath that will charm you with grandeur and great dreams made reality. Be your own judge, know to entertain an idea without accepting it.
This is well put.

>>15170704
No

>>15170906
Yes
>>15171144
This. Incels should be bullied.

>>15172465
>Don't you think that one believes God can be manifest in the temporal, in history so to speak? Nevertheless it is good to see you are not "Christ-hating". I am a Christian but I greatly appreciate paganism, even Chesterton said the same, it is very disappointing however that we find so many Christian hating pagans on this site, though it is mainly pol.
That white light as transcendent nothingness may be a historical constant with religious functionality, which manifests itself in the spirit of each age not necessarily as an externality but part as of the psyche in different symbols. Jung's historical task seemed to side with pluralism and coherentism (Quine/Hume), each religion breathing life into the forms of symbolic patterns which give it their life. The problem I have is trying to escape Platonic dualism--the world "out there" is "me" insofar as I express myself in it, my unconscious thereness maps it without me recognizing it, that's cool, but I can't prove the thing or world-in-itself is real without just inferring it must be because solipsism's just bad.

I can't say I hate Christians since there's a lot of different kinds, the foundationalists get a bit prickly for me and some ppl like presuppositionalists make me want to shitpost but some like Richard Rohr are alright then. Christ in general makes me nauseous, I can't read something like Matthew without this ridiculous weight pressing on me. He honed in on the everlasting, made it his crown, I just can't spend so much time at that level. Too much piety makes me zoned out, mysticism is a vapor which is threatening to my life, and I hope I don't need to engage in it in the future.

>>15172465
I suppose my of being a pagan is to engage in the spirit of one's own time

>>15172601
my way of being*

I don't need to take this with dramatic religious aesthetics, but I can certainly cherish it in the ways it expresses itself to me most strongly. I don't believe it that praying to God is without any use, however. God is certainly around and formless up to something, could the universe is an egg (very Hegelian). I couldn't say what a pantheon of the current age would be like. Probably something to do with prison systems, billionaires, postmodern abstract art displays. Who knows honestly.

>>15171228
>Man and his symbols is a horrible book
Jung's part is an excellent introduction. Not sure what you're on about.

>>15172583
>That white light as transcendent nothingness
I am curious as to why you consider it a nothingness, even in a Jungian sense the archetypes are fundamentally things, just merely that must be realised temporally so the use of the word strikes me oddly. In the sense that that whiteness does not actually exist? As if we were to use Jungian ideas if it does not exists then neither does any other archetypal experience which all together is the sum of life, in so far as one can say that logically.

>Jung's historical task seemed to side with pluralism and coherentism (Quine/Hume), each religion breathing life into the forms of symbolic patterns which give it their life.
I don't think that religious manifestation of a fundamental nature of living elements to be, or at least I can't see how that becomes pluralism/coherentism in the senses Quine and Hume meant it. It may be similar or borrow parts but I am again at a loss as to the use of these names.

>The problem I have is trying to escape Platonic dualism--the world "out there" is "me" insofar as I express myself in it
Platonically, aren't you always there, and is there not always a perfect idea of your thereness there?

>Christ in general makes me nauseous, I can't read something like Matthew without this ridiculous weight pressing on me. He honed in on the everlasting, made it his crown, I just can't spend so much time at that level. Too much piety makes me zoned out, mysticism is a vapor which is threatening to my life, and I hope I don't need to engage in it in the future.
Of course many Christians are bad, but if they are true to doctrinal teaching and they follow it with their life you cannot say they are bad people, maybe dumb but not bad. However your emotional reaction to the figure of Christ is not normal. I'm not going to pry but have you ever done or experienced anything which you would consider to be absolutely anti to Christian belief or morality? Like if you were to accept Christianity it would involve a great deal of effort around that past experience.

>>15172601
Would you call Hegel or Heidegger a pagan for this?

>>15172629
Well it was after all Heidegger that brought back such a medieval god-reverence in the immediacy of him, to modern times. That everything is foregrounded in a constant, of which Heidegger was able to say much about but of course not answer in total- that would be insane. This religious aesthetic you speak of is not an aesthetic in an scientific(liberal)-existential sense to Heidegger, as like something you choose or have any control over or is merely contained in your head as it were, but is something fundamental to the experience of life. Life is fundamentally religious, death is sacred, Being is sacred and so forth. And everything, all human moods and values are grounded in Being. A systematic uprooting of theological terms and ideas and a supplanting them in new soil, deistic, but still theophany, that is in the sense of "Being as Physis as Kosmos".

>>15172651
It was okay, the rest of it was bad.

>>15170834
Imagine being therapist in 20's-30's and manipulating all those qts into fucking and doing it completely legally.

>>15172730
>nothingness
An ineffable One would be more accurate, I think I can agree how nothingness isn't a coherent thing to say more specifically. The usage of white, white candles, white clothing, for whatever reason seems to express that One with God.

>pluralism/coherentism
I would say each religion expresses in symbols different parts of the psyche, never in the psyche's totality but bits and pieces emphasize themselves more or less strong in some such cultures. That has to imply an objective underlying code, which validates the pluralism as all the religions of each culture try to paint similar stories, and the actual mechanism of our becoming of such culture a process that is coherentist. We are given a puzzle and fuel egoistic energy into the arrangements of the pieces which make sense for us temporally, and this process resets as life does, forcing each individual to restart the internalization process.

>thereness
Platonic dualism pits actual x with the ideal x which exist somewhere I guess. I think these exist in our psyche, which leaves me solipsist. Placing an unknown One seems to solve that problem. I am there in a limited sense, a waking sleep Gurdjieff puts it, the perfect ideas are there in great multiplicity, some of which I can see, but they exist in conflict with each other in my mind.

>anti Christian
The verses that gave me the response were just very demanding of humbleness and it felt like a practical social psychological trick to turn off a person's mental defenses.

I had an active imagining, a "vision," "delusion," "hallucination," what have you of Jesus sometime in college in the library. I intentionally thought of him in a limited sense, but his responses were far more vivid than I could have expected or come up with. I think I was reading Plantinga or Merton at the time. He did not tell me of much substance however. He agreed when I accused him of the bible being largely fabricated and altered over time with no real singular agreed upon version. Even Enoch lives on in Ethiopian bibles.

There were multiple times when I entered a church and felt my vision react to icons around the church. A cross in the back of the church at my college had a figure of Jesus on it, I felt he had become an eagle at one point, the cross would disappear from my vision briefly, blackness would sometimes wash over it like an Instagram filter.

There's another entity I speak with every night, yes every night, no matter what, whom I cannot define, nor would I wish to as anything other than irrational vaporessness. It has a functional pattern, sure, but it's not exactly something I want to say about at length. I haven't done any drugs in years either.

>>15172946
(2/2)
>fundamentally religious
Definitely agree. There is anthropological support that the ancients did not think or speak in terms of "having a religion" at all, you simply "were" religious, because everyone was religious. Jung also thought these ancients project a fair bit of their unconscious out into the world, to the point that they really were hallucinating temporal "cosmic" entities.

>Being as Physis as Kosmos
Do you mean theophany as a divine drama? I think I get the picture of this maxim, maybe.

Also I think I gotta get off for the moment. I have a quiz due in a couple hours. Peace to you.

>I felt he had become an eagle at one point
Oh I should also point out that I seized the hymnal in front of me after this, the word of that bird was just plainly there on the page. I don't know the significance of that, Augustine would call it God, Jung would call it synchronicity, most people coincidence, I'm really not sure what to make of it. I heard a similar coincidence story from the last girl I dated. It's really strange stuff, more so because there's truly no causal "purpose" you can link to it.

Bump

>>15173004
>last girl I dated
Fuck off normie

>>15172737
Elaborate. What was poor about it?