/lit/ - Literature

>>15166020
I don't understand that image.

>>15166020
>the problem is too difficult for the heroine
Quite fitting actually.

>>15166020
Name literally 1 (one) book for each of these.

>>15166033
Life with actual depression

>>15166033
It's a play on the "dramatic plots"; some writers like to simplify all stories to a few archetypes. Those are anti-archetypes with plots where nothing happens and that aren't used for this reason. It's a joke.

>>15166058
Just in case people misunderstand me: I'm looking for nonfiction books about writing plots. I am not looking for novels using the plots described in my joke illustration of an image.

>>15166123
thanks lad

>>15166020
The 5 Basic Plots

>>15166020
Here: http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=books+about+plotting

>>15166156
Preferably books that don't simplify all plots to an arbitrary number.

>>15166161
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Why+am+I+fucking+retarded%3F

I am also looking for books on my own, but I want the opinion of people who have already read such books and can offer their advice and insights. If all you have to give is the obvious that you think, in your arrogance, is above others but not above you, then please shut the fuck up.

>>15166130
Maybe "If on a winter night a traveller" by Calvino

>>15166207
Not a huge fan of Post-Modernism. I want nonfiction about plotting to learn about the craft of writers.

Also, how come this board still hasn't asked the Supreme OP to have italics? Fucking Whatsapp has them.

>>15166199
There are also links there who also give you advice and insights from qualified people. People here don't even read, faggot.

>>15166244
>People here don't even read, faggot.
Why did I hope... Every fucking board is the same,

>be me
>study cinema for months
>go to /tv/
>...
>study literature and linguistics for 8 years
>think I might try /lit/
>...
>post chess thread on /tg/
>...
>try walking simulator games on /v/
>...

It only ever works on this website if you attack something in an autistic manner, rely heavily on overused memes, and tickle anon with race, sex, and homosexuality.

Examples:

>/tg/
"Do you have to be fat and ugly to get into Warhammer 40k?"

>/v/
"Is Sonic a transsexual and transpecies homosexual?"

>/tv/
"Any kinos about big black cocks in action from a Stanley Kubrick interpretation?"

>/lit/
"Was Evola truly a sucker of dicks and which philosophical movement was that? Come and go?"

4chan needs to burn. It's dead.

>>15166275
SEETHING

>>15166275
>>be me
>>study cinema for months
>>go to /tv/
What did you expect? It's a free board with no accounts on a website known as being the asshole of the internet. What did you come here for?

>>15166020
Borges

>>15166275
newfags are cringe

>>15166288
Absolutely. I'm upset at the state of this place and at how nothing is done to make it better while still implementing extremely strict rules against benine threads.

>you can't make a fun thread slightly outside the rule
>but you can make the same meme thread 60 times a day

>>15166325
>What did you expect? It's a free board with no accounts on a website known as being the asshole of the internet. What did you come here for?
For intelligent discussions about the given topics. What am I doing wrong.

>>15166331
I doubt he wrote about plotting.

>>15166337
Been here since 2008. Yes, 4chan was different, and better, before.

>>15166275
yep, it's based

>>15166020
Save the Cat! is the one book everyone touts about writing screen plays. It is applicable to other formats.
I've downloaded a few books that I found after googling 'best books about plotting'. I haven't read them yet, but assume they are as basic bitch as possible. Try them out.

>>15166362
>I doubt he wrote about plotting
You "doubt" without having even read? Mate, you're the only arrogant faggot here.

>>15166020
>>15166123
Reminds me of Kafka

Anyway, Story by Robert McKee is a great one. It's focused on screenplays and mostly uses film examples but the info about structure, theme, dialogue, etc is applicable to all story mediums

>>15166403
I almost bought this one, but then I realised it was mostly for screenplays and I've already read a few. The three-act structure is useful to outline a story but I need something very specific.

>>15166425
I will then verify my assumption. Following this, I will offer apologies if I was wrong. Back to you in a moment.

>>15166275
>study cinema for months
>study literature and linguistics for 8 years
>try walking simulator games on /v/

>>15166362
>For intelligent discussions about the given topics. What am I doing wrong.
If you're coming here for intelligent discussion you need to ignore the chaff. It's there, but don't think you won't have to wade through the sea of people who have more opinions than knowledge
aka don't feed the trolls

>>15166425
Back. My assumption seems to have been correct, as I cannot see any book by Borges about plotting a novel. If I am wrong again, you can point out which of his works deals with writing a plot for a novel. Thank you.

>>15166483
I know, everything is "cringe" and "Reddit" and all women are whores and Jews control everything.

And I know, telling you to take your meds is also cringe and Reddit.

>>15166499
I didn't say anything?

>>15166484
I honestly wish Reddit had its own 4chan-like forum. I can stand the normalfaggotry way more than the autism from here.

Is there any other forum with the same format but without the mentality?

https://archive.org/details/plottonewmethodo00cook

>>15166504
You called me cringe for trying to be anything more than retarded and shitty on /v/.

>>15166510
>I can stand the normalfaggotry way more than the autism from here.
Well maybe you should stay on reddit then you stupid newfag

>>15166058
I can think of a few 3's. I actually have a story a bit like 4

>>15166510
maybe learn japanese and go to 2ch

>>15166521
>playing a walking sim
>not retarded
I think you may want to think your life over, you cotton sniffing moron

>>15166510
What are you even asking for? What is a '4chan-like forum'? If you're referring to the lack of accounts and low moderation, that is exactly why 4chan is less normal and more autistic

>>15166488
Borges never wrote a novel and barely even care about them. He was a short story guy and while he didn't write entire books about à la how to plot for dummies, he certainly gave some insights over the years, some of which have been compiled in books.

>>15166515
>William Wallace Cook

>>15166515
Sounds cool, but it's from 1928, anon. I'll still look into it, you never know.

>>15166445
What do you need?

>>15166510
>I honestly wish Reddit had its own 4chan-like forum.
What do you mean by that though?

>>15166589
He wants reddit tier content but in a 4chan format.

>>15166524
I am considering going, yes. I'm not ashamed of it so don't bother.

>>15166537
I adore walking simulators. It's not all I play, but sometimes what I want is a walking simulator. Some of them are absolute masterpieces and took my breath away. I never imagined I'd discover a literal new way of telling a story in a video game.

>play Edith Finch
>spend 10 minutes just looking around a room because of the extremely high amount of details
>entire story through you snooping around

I love it and there's nothing you can do to take it away from me. As to being a moron, I never made a mistake on the only IQ test I was ever given.

>>15166589
you can read downvoted and deleted posts if you want though

>>15166679
>you can read downvoted
The fact that the posts get hidden away for being downvoted is hilarious and does nothing but reinforce the group opinion

>>15166020
Dear Sir or Madam:
In the third box, there should be a comma between the independent clauses. I'm going to have to ask you to fix the mistake and create a new thread with the corrected image. If the correction is not made by the close of business on Friday, I will be contacting the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and turning the matter over to them. Do not test me.
Terveisin,
Anonymous

>>15166548
Doesn't sound like what I'm looking for. Short stories are very different from novels. I've read a bunch of his, they're cool stories for concepts, but it's clear that he couldn't have written a novel with this material.

>>15166670
Jesus, you're an actual idiot; I feel bad for you somewhat. Maybe you should take another test, and you'll get a score below 90. Walking sims are for bona fide dunces so you'll fit in swimmingly on reddit

>>15166020
Watch Neil Gaiman's masterclass
I read Dan Brown's is also good.

>>15166708
>I would like some recommendations for books about plots, specifically for novel, but screenplays and *short stories* are fine too.
literally kys faggot

>>15166571
A nonfiction book about the plotting part for writing novels.

>>15166609
Pretty much. Decent peoplle whose jokes are actually funny, who don't have mental health issues displayed for all to see, and who won't escape like faggots into "I was only trolling" when they can no longer argue their stupid beliefs. 4chan is truly for the weak.

>>15166728
good one

>>15166696
>In the third box, there should be a comma between the independent clauses.
You obviously don't know how commas work, then. The rest was funny.

>>15166712
My IQ is at the very least at 140. They can't tell me where exactly because I didn't make mistakes, so they can only tell me the minimum score.

You're the idiot because you think all games are about solving puzzles. If you can't appreciate a game like Edith Finch, that's virtually a handicap on your end. Good luck with that low IQ, because we both know exactly why you're upset at me right now.

>>15166728
I HAVE IT. I also have James Patterson's. Neil sounds based, though he is in an open marriage and that bothers me.

>>15166729
>specifically for novels
>specifically

Borges doesn't have a single book about writing anything. The book anon suggested is about himself. Why are his stories so shit, though?

>woah, here's a crystal ball that allows you to see "everything"
Amazing.

>>15166528
>I can think of a few 3's.
What are they? Actually curious.

>>15166778
If pity is being upset in your book, I'm bawling. It's sad to see such a deluded individual. I'm willing to bet you took that test as a kid and I even doubt it was a legit test, because even someone at 140 wouldn't be so retarded. Walking sims are for dolts, so I see why you're so passionate about them.

>be OP
>post funny picture in autistic board, asking for a book on plotting
>autists don't understand the image and think OP wants novels with the "undramatic plots" in his funny image

Oh, /lit/, I thought this board had been spared by the 'tism, but I guess I was wrong. The fact that none of you enjoy fiction that isn't post-modernist and meta should have been a clue, as autists really don't like fiction because they can't relate to the characters.

Good luck, OP, but don't keep your hopes up. The only book you were recommended is literally "plot: autism version" as it's a book that classifies plot points and allows you to "generate" random plots that will still work.

Bravo.

>>15166796
>but screenplays and *short stories* are fine too.
Can't you read, you stupid nigger?
>Why are his stories so shit, though?
kek subhumans should stay away from literature

>>15166831
Took it a year ago, was a mandatory test.

You literally have no idea why people like walking simulators and probably never played one. Yet here you are thinking you're smarter than everyone else.

Trust me, I recognise people with high IQ's, and you are not among them. This obviously upsets you because it's not what you believe. Your next move is to claim that IQ's don't mean anything and that people with elevated IQ's are retarded. It's completely predictable.

Your first dumb move was to assume that all video games are about requiring intelligence or even being hard. Then you somewhat understood this was an autistic assumption and plenty of things were great without requiring intelligence. Now you're stuck in a corner and can do nothing about it.

My IQ is over 140 and I adore walking simulators. If you were any smart yourself or merely studied the topic, you would understand 100% why people with superior brains enjoy walking simulators, but the very thought of it didn't occur to you.

>>15166856
They are fine too, but OP doesn't want a book ONLY about short stories and films. Besides, Borges' books are most likely commentaries on fiction and not books teaching you how to write. That is why literary students rarely become writers, because they get stuck in all the wrong books and ideas and try to recreate academically popular works from decades and decades ago that nobody cares about.

>>15166856
>kek subhumans should stay away from literature
His stories are shit, though.

t. PhD in English literature, thesis on American Renaissance

>>15166892
>Took it a year ago, was a mandatory test.
>You literally have no idea why people like walking simulators and probably never played one. Yet here you are thinking you're smarter than everyone else.
>Trust me, I recognise people with high IQ's, and you are not among them. This obviously upsets you because it's not what you believe. Your next move is to claim that IQ's don't mean anything and that people with elevated IQ's are retarded. It's completely predictable.
>Your first dumb move was to assume that all video games are about requiring intelligence or even being hard. Then you somewhat understood this was an autistic assumption and plenty of things were great without requiring intelligence. Now you're stuck in a corner and can do nothing about it.
>My IQ is over 140 and I adore walking simulators. If you were any smart yourself or merely studied the topic, you would understand 100% why people with superior brains enjoy walking simulators, but the very thought of it didn't occur to you.

>>15166750
Dear Sir or Madam:
I take great offence at the slanderous suggestion that I do not understand how to properly use commas. Indeed, I resolutely stand by the assertion that a coordinating conjunction between independent clauses not only can, but must be preceded by a comma. My attorneys have strongly advised me not to send this communication, but I am bound by honor to do so.
Terveisin,
Anonymous

>>15166916
>His stories are shit, though.
He's better than any other short fiction writer from Burgerland. You just happen to have a shit taste and your meme degree is irrelevant. I bet you're also monolingual and a plebbitor.

>>15166916
>That is why literary students rarely become writers, because they get stuck in all the wrong books (i.e books on how to write)
if this is a troll it's fucking excellent

>>15166892
Mandatory tests, usually at work places or schools are usually as limited as an online test.

Trust me, I recognise people with high IQ's, and you are not among them. This obviously upsets you because it's not what you believe. Your next move is to claim that IQ's don't mean anything and that people with elevated IQ's are retarded. It's completely predictable.

Your first dumb move was to assume that I was talking about difficulty or even stimulation, since I was merely pointing out that walking sims are the bottom of the barrel pseudointellectual swill and you playing and looking for discussion on them is indicative of your substandard intelligence.

My IQ is over 160 and I hate walking simulators. If you were smart yourself or merely studied the topic, you would understand 100% why people with superior brains would simple go for a walk instead but the very thought of it didn't occur to you.

>>15166987
>Trust me,
Why?

>>15166892
Simulators are for giga autists.

>>15166997
My IQ is over 160 and I hate walking simulators.

>>15167008
>My IQ is over 160
Prove it.

>>15167026
He hates walking simulators, that's a sign of high IQ. Simulators are for low IQ "people"

>>15166892
I have a 140 IQ and yume nikki is my favorite game of all time so I'd have to agree

>>15167036
Not a proof.

>>15167026
I hate walking simulators.

>>15167040
You're definitely a man of integrity. The "man" you replied to is just some moron.

>>15167061
Probably, but I'll never pass up the chance to talk about works of art that I enjoy

>>15167048
>>15167044

>>15167094
"Not a proof"? Can't you speak properly, boy? Go on, stand up straight when I talked to you. Don't make me bust out my copy of The Ego and Its Own and teach you a thing or two. Now get in your stupid corner, I left you a walking sim to occupy yourself with while you think about how stupid you're being.

>>15166916
Did you write your thesis about Matthiessen's book, or are you just old?

>>15167156
Not an argument.

>>15167156
based

>>15167164
>Not an argument.

>>15167180
>>15167164

>>15167184
>>15167180

>>15166020
Plot Perfect!

>>15166033
>>15166058
/lit/ confirmed for autism

>>15166020
"Making Shapely Fiction" is a minimalist's skinny on the sort of shapes stories take. Short, sweet, invaluable to my own writing.
Check it out.

>People here don't even read, faggot.
Why did I hope... Every fucking board is the same,

>be me
>study cinema for months
>go to /tv/
>...
>study literature and linguistics for 8 years
>think I might try /lit/
>...
>post chess thread on /tg/
>...
>try walking simulator games on /v/
>...

It only ever works on this website if you attack something in an autistic manner, rely heavily on overused memes, and tickle anon with race, sex, and homosexuality.

Examples:

>/tg/
"Do you have to be fat and ugly to get into Warhammer 40k?"

>/v/
"Is Sonic a transsexual and transpecies homosexual?"

>/tv/
"Any kinos about big black cocks in action from a Stanley Kubrick interpretation?"

>/lit/
"Was Evola truly a sucker of dicks and which philosophical movement was that? Come and go?"

4chan needs to burn. It's dead.

>>15166275
>>15168115

>>15166892
>>15166987
I have 180IQ and what the fuck is a walking simulator?

>>15168190
200 IQer here: You wouldn't like 'em friend; they're for midwits and morons.

>>15168235
666 IQ here, I’m so smart I hate videogames of all kinds but I play them and enjoy them

>>15166589
Just gore/porn flooding until the thread you got humiliated in 404s/gets deleted and you can start again in a fresh one.

>>15168115
There was an old saying on /b/ that trying to troll /b/ was "pissing in an ocean of piss". I now think it applies to all aspects of 4chan, not just trolling and not just /b/. Be mindful and close the browser my friend. This is a wasteland where only the damned still wander.

>>15168299
Wow 2 responses epic, shouldn't save your own screenshots

>>15166799
>
bump for this

>>15166567
Report back on Plotto, please, if you do indeed look into it. Always a little curious on that one.

I second the rec of McKee's Story.

I'm not sure that any book can teach you have to plot if you don't have a natural talent for it, but Vogler's The Writer's Journey is surprisingly good.

Oh, yeah. Another good one - surprising, too, because of the title - is Mamet's _On Directing_, the first chapter of which is a terrific account of Mamet's improvised, in-class development of a short story plot.

Also, the famous memo Mamet wrote for some cop show he worked on. Lays out the basics of screenwriting with characteristic Mametian concision and force. Should be able to find it pretty easy via g--gle.

>>15166058
To some extent, #4 is present in every Murakami novel I have read.

>>15166043
kek

>>15166362
>here since 2008
Nothing else about what you say makes me believe this. Or you’re not very bright, also an option I guess.

>>15166020
Unironically, screenwriting books.

The Anatomy of Story, by John Truby
The Art of Dramatic Writing, by Lajos Egri (for plays)

But there are also literary books about the structure of narrative. I recommend you to study things related to narratology. Some books that I have and helped me "grasp" the essence of storytelling:

Cambridge Introduction to Narrative, by H. Porter Abbott
The Rethoric of Fiction, by Wayne Booth
Reading for the Plot - Design and Intention in Narrative, by Peter Brooks

Also, there is a very good thesis on neuroscience published some years ago that explain how the
how the suspense phenomenon occurs in the human brain. Which is interesting for future writers to understand how the reader's mind works, and then to manipulate it. It's called "Emotional Experiences of Tension and Suspense". There's a pdf you can find on google.

>>15166020
The (IV)fourth is my problem with girls.

>>15166123
I think the third one could actually work

>>15166020
1 is most of the Batwoman show

>>15166892
>My IQ is over 140 and I adore walking simulators. If you were any smart yourself or merely studied the topic, you would understand 100% why people with superior brains enjoy walking simulators, but the very thought of it didn't occur to you.
literally laughed my ass off for a good five minutes at this

>>15166799
>>15168744
Concrete Island was the last one like that I read

>>15171292
also like half of Lovecraft's work

>>15169842
Thanks for recommendations.

>>15166275
>try walking simulator games on /v/
lol why

>>15166237
Lmao you’re fucking retarded if you think Calvino is postmodernist.

>>15166708
You’re such a huge faggot. Go kys you slimy brain let fuck.

>>15166020
https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/112883059-francis-truffle?shelf=writing
https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/112883059-francis-truffle?shelf=film

>>15166058
2 the trial

>>15166892
bruh you posted cringe

>>15172581
>it's not a big thing
>soon gets sorted out

I like the picture. But there are more than four Undramatic Plot Structures.

>Boy Misses Girl
A boy and girl miss each other by minutes and carry on with their lives without ever knowing what might have been.

>The Failure of the Underdog
A plucky fellow enters a competition which he has no theoretical hope of winning. And indeed he quickly gets knocked out and goes back home.

>Mismatched Buddies Remain So
Two people from wildly different backgrounds are forced to work together. Gradually they come to dislike each other even more and they part at the end of the assignment with a sense of relief.

>Tragedy Averted
The protagonist is a great man with one almost-fatal flaw. Fortunately, just when he's about to make a terrible decision his friends stop him and disaster is averted.

>>15172767
Basically nothing happens to K. until he randomly gets stabbed one day. The trial has no actual effect on his life until the very end

>>15166499
Yes. Now go back.

The unashamed fucking redditors ITT

Pic related ITT

>>15166020

>>15166058

4. that carver story about the old guy who wears his wife's clothes or whatever

>>15166510
No, there isn't. We've been rather effectively kettled

>>15172493
Lmao you're fucking retarded if you think If on a winter's night a traveler is anything but the exemplar of postmodern literature

>>15172849
These aren't undramatic; one would really call them pathetic, as in "pathos"

>>15173238
Fair enough, but the trial doesn't actually get sorted out, does it? It was still there looming over him until the very end, even if it had had no greater impact on his life.

>>15166695
Being hidden gives posts more visibility than they would have if ignored

>>15166058
#3
Crying of Lot 49.

>>15174583
we don't know if she ultimately gives up or not

>>15166745
I just realized how hysterical laughter looks a lot like extreme pain or suffering. Pretty cool desu but i’m too much of a brainlet to expand upon my observation.

Haven't read it, but this looks like it might be good.

>>15166275
based. 4channel BTFO. look at all the seething incel replies

>>15166058
The Tatar Steppe
The Day Lasts More Than a Hundred Years

both are great books.

>>15166331
Based.
>>15166362
Cringe.

>>15166548
Based Borges working leddit into a shoot.

>>15166708
Based anon shooting the autists into a work.

>>15166741
Dude. Just read Onetti.
He writes about what he's writing and why he writes each part, all in a setting where prowrestling is real and you can still molest the domestic employee.
Based literature for great reddit minds like us.