/lit/ - Literature

In essence, a paganistic phenomenology, branching the collective sub conscious of various tribes, subliminally in check with amalgamations in the stars, philosophy and even black magic.

>>15154781
believing that "the truth" has been revealed once for all in some texts, just because they're old, and a man's purpose is just commenting them (i don't get why they can't just read them). of course their "truth" is : the world is appearance, illusion, etc, and reality is "beyond" it. that is, nihilism.
any 3 digits IQ person will understand that this stance is dictated by fear of the unknown and need for coping with their inadequacy to the difficulties of the world, that is, self-help.

Miss me with that integral tradition. I'll stick with real traditions, thank you very much!

an ideal and imperfect instantiations of that ideal

>>15154781
To put it simply, it's the study and the understanding of the social order of the ancient religions and world orders. A very common idea is that the indo-aryan religions and social systems in the west were distorted by Semitic influences and that the East never had this influence until post ww1.

>>15154781
>tradition
The revelation of Christ.
>traditionalism
New-age relativist theosophy with a 'right-wing' flavour.

>>15154781
>tradition = what I enjoy doing
>traditionalism = what I enjoy contemplating

>>15154781
Tradition:
The substantive essence of reality which has at its core the truth of the world.

Traditionalism: Contemplation and action which seeks to understand and preserve said essence.

>>15156154
Begone, Rowsellnigger.

>>15154781
big tits
wheat fields

that's it really

>>15156154
he could be a based Christian dad. what a shame that good men are larping as degenerate pagan relativists nowadays.

>>15154781
>>15154796
>>15155259
>>15156154
>>15156681
>>15156696

>>15154781
An abstract model of conduct that is shaped by low-level evolutionary psychological processes and thus common to most, if not all humans.

It’s syncretic nonsense and picking and choosing what is “Traditional” and then spending pages rambling about initiation, spiritual nonsense and Islam

Do Americans not have any real traditions? Is that why they love Evola's "integral" meta-tradition bullshit so much?

Tradition is immaterial culture that has been preserved for a long time, that's it. Going on preserving that immaterial culture is traditionalism. Searching for commonalities in ancient texts, making them into a doctrine and trying to model a new world after it is just another flavour of modernism.

>>15156693
What’s your issue with Tom?

>>15157592
Americans don’t really have any traditions anymore, no. We are also really lacking in coherent heritage and identity. It’s actually rather depressing.

Capital T, “Tradition” from Latin tradere derived from trans (‘beyond’) and dare (‘to hand over’) indicates the passing of something over and can be understood as that which is transmitted, specifically, that which is transmitted from beyond. It’s the direct and effective transmission of heritage that non-human or even supernatural in origin. This heritage takes the form of a power that pervades the whole of reality, transcending the material and biological of existence. The distinction is made between lower case and capital because lower case “tradition” has taken on more profane meanings.

>>15157699
>which is transmitted from beyond
Demons would also be "from beyond" and non-human or supernatural or immaterial. Which is where more so-called "traditions" come from.

>>15154865
>this stance is dictated by fear of the unknown and need for coping with their inadequacy to the difficulties of the world, that is, self-help
This can and does happen, but any worldview has leeches who supposedly adhee to it. These people are negligible because of course they're unable to make creative input of their own or to become suficiently kowledgeable on any subject since it's all a facade for them. With people like Evola and Tom Rowsell it's different: Evola is a good historian/anthropologist and would have been more popular had he accepted that he was just that and had ot had the need to claim of researching some 'ancient and ultimate thruth'. Rowsell is a damn fine chap, but doesn't seem to realize that his Indo-European mythos as he has it, doesn't explain the world or reality as he would want it to.

>>15157655
It's unironically the Jews. Read Culture of Critique

>>15158302
How can you claim that Evola was just a historian/anthropologist when he did many other things. He wrote philosophy and theology. He wrote on the occult. He was an artist and poet. He was a political writer. He honestly did so many things. The guy was on a genuine search for truth.

Also, you’re responding to a reply by someone who just clearly has no idea what they’re talking about.

>>15158354
It’s not the Jews. Non-Jewish white Americans often behave like bigger Jews than the Jews themselves.

>>15158424
He was a painter mostly before he started writing seriously. I haven't read his more politically oriented work, only his philosophical/historical works. So yes, I know he tried to, or thought he was engaging in philosophy, but just in the way as I think Rowsell's thinking is incomplete, he tries at subjects solely from a historical angle and expects to make any valuable claim about 'thruths' or even worse 'metaphysics'. He goes on about father/sun deities and masks his asking his readers for blind faith in 'tradition' with the banner of 'metaphysics'. If you want monistic metaphysics you can read Plotinus, but at no point does Evola actually engage with these philosophies.

>>15154781

It's just mimicking or desiring to mimic a way of life that existed in the past
Of course what this means is that traditionalism is entirely relative and often means completely different things to different people

>>15154781
When an act is performed on the younger generation, for whatever reason, the younger generation remembers it. Because psychologically it is harder to confront the older generation than to pretend what they did needs no justification, the younger generation then proceeds to repeat what was done to them to the following generation. The cycle continues, and a tradition is born.

>>15158635
It honestly sounds like you’re not that well acquainted with his books. Are you familiar with Phenomenology of the Absolute Individual or his Essays in Magical Idealism? I’ll give you that he moved on from idealist philosophy relatively early but in a way that’s almost part of his ”philosophy” and he writes about it as such. He wrote pretty extensively about Thomism, for example, too. Even books like Revolt are really nothing like what Rowsell does. Honestly, I’d Revolt isn’t real philosophy than neither is Nietzsche’s The Birth of Tragedy.

>>15158635
>>15158730
As a matter of fact, there’s an essay he wrote for the Theological School of Rome where he cites Plotinus specifically. I will try to find it if you’re interested.

>>15154781
Tradition, from trado, meaning "to hand over, to pass on, to leave behind," from Trans (across, beyond)/do (give). It is the passing of light from one candle to the next, the embrace of dying ember and untried wick. It is everything that Evola and Guenon and all the rest have failed to grasp. It exists in the hands and the lips and not the mind. When time changes, tradition is what remains the same.

>>15154781
Hyperborea

>>15158746
I'm very interested, thanks.

>>15158730
> Even books like Revolt are really nothing like what Rowsell does. Honestly, I’d Revolt isn’t real philosophy than neither is Nietzsche’s The Birth of Tragedy.
Nietzsche is more of a poet than a philosopher.
> "God does not exist. The Ego must create him by making itself divine."
>''The truths that allow us to understand the world of Tradition are not those that can be "learned" or "discussed." They either are or are not. We can only remember them, and that happens when we are freed from the obstacles represented by various human constructions (chief among these are the results and methods of the authorized "researchers") and have awakened the capacity to see from the nonhuman viewpoint, which is the same as the Traditional viewpoint ... Traditional truths have always been held to be essentially non-human''
Again, as I said, Evola is always referring to authority but never expounds the content of any tradition as it were. Even a work such as Doctrine of Awakening is an exposé and doesn't apply this 'ancient wisdom' in any relevant philosophical argumentation. I've often met these types of people: they encounter a school of thought, a tradition, a writer, which/who distrusts discursive human knowledge/rationality and are relieved by this because it ends many of the questions they ask themselves pertaining to being, death, God. These are usually quite blunt pilosophies such as Gnosticism, Taoism, Upanishadic Heracliteanism with a lot of aesthetic appeal and a narrative, but very little content. EVERY NOTEWORTHY THINKER OR SCHOOL OF METAPHYSICS RECOGNIZES THE LIMITATIONS OF LANGUAGE AND THE HUMAN INTELLECT. Finding the truth takes time and effort but it exists. However, if Revolt, his magnus opus, makes these faults, I see little reason to bother with his other work.

>>15158943
My point is that Evola claims to do metaphysics but he doesn't do anything of the sort. He literally just seems to have read Nietzsche and only disliked the lack of metaphysics. Nietzsche IS anti-metaphysical and his entire body of work revolves around this.
>NOOOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN METAPHYSERINO

>>15158943
Im struggling to find a complete translation but it looks like this is a piece:
https://www.gornahoor.net/?p=6950
Now, I’m not sure if this is the kind of thing you’re looking for, but I really don’t see how this would fit the critique to be honest. Forgive me, if I’m misunderstanding you but it seems like you’re critiquing him at least in part for not engaging in what you consider real philosophy but Evola himself would probably agree with the sentiment. His philosophy was almost “anti-philosophy” and he admitted as such. He was certainly more Nietzsche than Kant after his idealism phase.

>>15156693
Varg is an insane lunatic who stabs his friend 30 times in 'self defense'. He believes his own lies.

>>15158978
Evola found Traditionalism way after studying Nietzsche in german for decades. He studied every single thing Nietzsche wrote, even his letters and minor works for hours every day in its original language, while discussing him with every other important italian philosopher at the time, did you do the same?

>>15159100
>Evola found Traditionalism way after studying Nietzsche in german for decades
Isn't this Traditionalism thing just a big cope then? A cope against the fact that we live in a nihilist Nietzschean world. We killed God and now we're paying the price. There is no going back to mommy Tradition, we killed it. We can cling to "her" but it is just her dead corpse we're hugging.
Nietzsche opened up the Pandora's box, religion is trying to cope with that (tradcaths), some more philosophically sound people are inclined to cope with Perennialism and Traditionalism.. then there are the atheists who just don't care about that burden

>>15154865
False

>>15154781
Traditionalism is the idea that truths have been subconsciously discovered over time and are represented in the wisdom of religions. The universals of human nature are where those religions align. It's a descriptive ideology.

>>15159058
That's fair. I forgot about that comfy Gornahoor website. Nonetheless, I enjoyed reading Evola a lot.

>>15159100
Cope

>>15154865
lmao imagine being this low IQ. Imagine speaking this definitively on something with only a cursory understanding of it

>>15159241
Evola doesn't believe in a superior deity
>>15159311
Cope

Actually study the people you want to criticize

>>15159241
Stop, this is too insightful and accurate. No more blackpill pls

>>15154781
religion - ethics

Also what makes people like Foucault not traditionalist. He literally went through history and cherry picked examples of things that were beneficial to society

>>15154781
>tradition
Peer pressure from dead people
>traditionalism
Posting models in wheat fields like these fucking simps
>>15158302
>>15158635
>>15158943

What the opposite of tradition isn't.

There y'go.

>>15159323
>back then when people were FUCKING STOOPID amirite??

>>15159329
>Evola doesn't believe in a superior deity
He believes in Tradition, the mountain top upon which all religions and gods point to.

>>15154781

>>15159333
The liberal and revolutionary impulse. Sadism. Masochism. In some, it is merely a malicious desire for equality, the belief that everyone else should be just as miserable. For others, it is the understandable but false belief that a spoiled thing cannot be restored, and therefore our corrupted existence ought to be destroyed so that a better one may take it's place. In some sense, these are the two most reasonable positions to take if God is rejected.

>>15159241
To conclude this would be a fundamental misunderstanding of Tradition and Traditional action in the modern world. Moreover, Evola is the only Traditionalist who even engages with Nietzsche whatsoever. Honestly, you should read this authors if you’re compelled to rather than get shallow readings from this board. 99% of information on here is either very shallow or pretty off the mark.

>>15159529
Deep.

>>15159333
That’s not what is implied by Tradition in this sense. It’s not quite clear that is what would be implied by any tradition in any sense to be honest. Although I see what you’re saying, it’s a misunderstanding of what’s being discussed.

>>15159241
Tradition lives. Pick up your rosary, and you will it abundantly alive. It is not tradition that died, but glory. If you humble yourself, tradition will come easily enough.

>>15159601
I read both Evola and Nish. You might actually present your arguments rather than making these ad hominem attacks.

>>15159631
>If you humble yourself, tradition will come easily enough.
What if I'm not an abrahamicist and I don't want to OBEY and SUBMIT, can I even be a Traditionalist then?

>>15159700
You expect me to address a Nietzschean diagnosis of nihilism and full analysis of Traditionalism in a reply on /lit/? That’s a tall order. This wasn’t an attack on you by the way. I’m simply stating you won’t get the full story on this board. Evola didn’t come up with Tradition after reading Nietzsche or anything like that.

>>15159767
Do you believe Traditionalism is a way out of a nihilist world?

>>15159721
>OBEY and SUBMIT
...to what? Truth?

All you need to do is read the Tao te Ching to realize that resistance to nature/the universe is out of harmony with existence.

You've bought into the post-modern lie that heeding old wisdom is the same as slavery.

I guarantee that you have masters. Porn addiction? Drugs? Television addiction? A sports team? The incessant need to buy your favorite game studio's upcoming titles?

For most, their unconscious master is the consumer society in which we live. I'd say it's unavoidable because Consumerism has become the idol of modern civilization. I'm no better, but at least I can acknowledge that it's a problem.

>>15159529
You can say the same thing about progressives, that they are trying to preserve the fire by keeping on fueling it

>>15159721
>I will not serve
Where there is pride, there is revolution. Where there is humility, there is tradition. God is Truth. God is Justice. God is Mercy. God is Beauty. God is Humility. God is Purity. God is Love. Truth is Justice is Mercy is Beauty is Humility is Purity is Love. If you would do without Humility, you would do without the rest.

>>15159721
>>15159854
to add on to this, Catholicism isn't necessarily the absolute truth, but it's as close as we westerners can get. If you're born in a Christian/Western culture, you innately have no connection to Eastern philosophy, religion, and culture. The West and the East align on fundamental truths, but Catholicism is the Western Path to Perennial Truth because it encapsulates those truths plus all of Western culture in its traditions.

Look at religion as a tool or a pathway to higher truth, not as a despot over your life. Once you start to see its place in the world, the feeling is liberating.

Logos/the Tao/the Breath of God is everywhere

>>15159885
Something cannot be true and self-contradictory. Catholicism denies all attempts to syncretize it with other traditions. A fundamental dogma of the faith is that there is no salvation outside the Church, that all other religions are false. If it is wrong in this, it is entirely wrong. If it is believed in any part, it must be believed in full.

>>15159854
>...to what? Truth?
YHVH is in no way "the Truth"

>All you need to do is read the Tao te Ching
Will do. Been on my reading list for a while. I know it's a short text but extremely dense and complex.

>You've bought into the post-modern lie that heeding old wisdom is the same as slavery.
No. I come from a point of view where the will of one can affect the gods and thus change his/her own fate. I've had a few experiences in my life that brought me up to this belief. The gods love the smell of our offerings, they can be beneficial to us and sometimes some forces want to feed on our misfortune and suffering, this is the time to tell them to fuck off - not to submit and take it as some sort of a test or anything in that line.

>Porn addiction? Drugs? Television addiction? A sports team? The incessant need to buy your favorite game studio's upcoming titles?
None of that. Tea and coffee is my worst "master" now and I'll drop that as well.
I'm in the process of moving out of the city and living of land where I can be my own master.

>their unconscious master is the consumer society in which we live
I agree. I'm absolutely sick of consoomerism.

>I'm no better, but at least I can acknowledge that it's a problem.
I am better because I'm getting better every single day.

>If you're born in a Christian/Western culture
I despise "the West". I'm not here to save it from modernity, I'd rather destroy it if it were in my power to do so.

>>15154781
who's tradition and traditionalism would you like defined?

>>15159797
No, and even Evola didn't think so

>>15159966
Based and Bronze Age pilled

>>15159966
Based

also checked

>>15159885
t. unchurched

>>15159947
t. read the catechism

>>15159947
But Catholics believe people who live in line with the Church, such as Taoists, are part of the church and just don't know it. Catholicism is, at its base, about living in your true nature, like an animal does. To sin is to act outside your nature. Also, I never said the Church was infallible, but it's about as close as you can get to finding the truth in Western tradition. It's possible to have a nuanced view on a religion.

And you have to consider that most people aren't rational actors or critical thinkers. Most people SHOULDN'T doubt the Church because they cannot think for themselves. That's how you get protestants who ignore all the inconvenient parts of Christian tradition. That's why it's so important to have the official position that you need to adhere to Catholicism without doubt. Most people are lemmings who need to be led the right way, or else they'll all fall off the cliff.

>>15159966
>this is the time to tell them to fuck off - not to submit and take it as some sort of a test or anything in that line
See this is just pride. You can't tell nature to "fuck off", just like you can't tell the laws of physics to fuck off. Logos is Truth. The logical rules by which the universe functions. And its relation to human beings is reflected in tradition (key word: Reflected)

Pretty sure there are numerous Greek stories about what happens when you tell gods to fuck off.

>None of that. Tea and coffee is my worst "master" now and I'll drop that as well.
>I'm in the process of moving out of the city and living of land where I can be my own master
This is kinda based and TedPilled, but I think you'll find that modernity's reaches are infinite.

>I despise "the West"
Yikes

>>15160071
>t. unchurched
eh, i talked to a nun about these ideas. She was cool with em so I think I'm in the clear.

>>15160128
>You can't tell nature to "fuck off"
Of course I can. If you get attacked by a dog, will you fight back or will you OBEY and SUBMIT to higher order of nature?

You're also conflating the laws of nature (physics) and the situations where human agency takes place.

>Logos is Truth
I don't think Christians really understand the logos. You think such sentences make sense because EMJ is currently meming them but John simply appropriated an extremely broad Greek concept and ascribed it to rabbi Yehoshua.

>Pretty sure there are numerous Greek stories about what happens when you tell gods to fuck off.
Of course but there are also those where such actions were absolutely necessary and were heroic in nature.

>I think you'll find that modernity's reaches are infinite.
Quite possibly but I'll always fight back.

>>15160128
This is not catholocism in the slightest. Our nature is broken. If we live according to our nature, we will becomes slaves of the Devil and burn in hell for eternity. The first commandment of God is to glorify him. It is true, one can only glorify God according to their nature and their knowledge and according to his will. But if a taoist has heard christian teaching and rejects it, then the taoist has rejected God. It would not matter what other virtue they had shown in life. And, importantly, the Church says it's infallible, and all of its teachings rest on this teaching. If the Church is not infallible, there is no reason to trust any of its teachings. As you demonstrate by your own arguments, to live outside the Church requires a denial of teachings which the Catholic Church itself says cannot be dispensed with. Therefore, you have denied the Catholic faith, and no matter what arguments you provide, you cannot reconcile these contradictions.

>>15160134
It often happens that unbelievers think a priest has granted an opinion that has not been granted. People hear what they want to hear. Instead of looking to see whether they agree, look to see if they disagree. In all things, doubt yourself and trust the church. If you cannot find it in tradition, you ought to go through great pains to see that it corresponds to tradition. If it cannot be found already in the Church and cannot be brought into the Church, how can it be of God?

>>15160274
>If you get attacked by a dog, will you fight back or will you OBEY and SUBMIT to higher order of nature?
It's your nature to fight back as much as it is the dogs nature to bite

>You're also conflating the laws of nature (physics) and the situations where human agency takes place
Maybe, but a Catholic and an atheist biologist would both tell you those are strongly connected. That's the essentialist point of view.

>I don't think Christians really understand the logos
I don't listen to or read EMJ (I'm assuming you're referring to E Michael Jones, with whom I'm only hardly familiar because a philosophy professor I sometimes talk to loves him), but I will tell you that I was familiar with the concept of Logos long before I was a catholic, and I was familiar with the Tao long before that (which is essentially the same thing).

>>15160301
>If the Church is not infallible, there is no reason to trust any of its teachings
Of course there's reason. The religion contains the wisdom of countless people throughout time, and the current heads spend all their time meditating on higher truths. There's plenty of value in it, but most people won't be able to see beyond the tradition and the words to get at the purpose. Only the priestly caste, the patricians, can do that. That's why there can be disagreements within the church: some people are capable of higher thought, and others are not.

>>15160274
you are pretty dumb but i assume you are a teenage like most of /lit/. you should read spengler. your ideas of the world-around and world as history are very confused.

>>15160316
>If it cannot be found already in the Church and cannot be brought into the Church, how can it be of God?
Because the Church is subject to human error. As is any human institution. This has to be true if you believe in Free Will, which the Catholic church does. That's why there are disagreements in the Church. That's why the Church evolves. That's why Vatican II happened and Liberation Dogma exists despite it having nothing to do with Christ.

Church authorities can't be infallible if humans are fallible. But it's the best thing we got, and the only institution that centralizes and maintains ancient traditions and values.

>>15159309
Decent enough definition. How would that differ from perennialism then?

Tradition:
>that what happened yesterday, should happen today
that which your ancestors did that you thought was worth doing.
traditionalism:
>the vigilance in principle in the uniformity in nature
the moral stance that traditions are good
usually as
respect of elders
maintaining status quo
currently as a reconnecting to lost identity

>>15159797
In simplistic terms, yes.

>>15159990
Can you please elaborate on this?

For the Catholics in this thread arguing you should read Christ the original mystery by Jean Borella. Its an interesting take on all the "traditionalist" stuff but builds off it in its own way. It was a good read if you like neoplatonist stuff as well.

>>15160342
>It's your nature to fight back as much as it is the dogs nature to bite
I'll maximize this in order to make myself clear.
The abrahamist will OBEY God when he inflicts "tough times" and suffering upon him. Take the story of Job as a demonstration of that. He is in the end awarded for his SUBMISSION TO DA LORD with even more shit he doesn't need (property, wife, children, cattle).

I see gods as living spiritual forces that see us the way we see animals. We can feed on them, act like psychopaths and torture them, we can also help them in the time of need, we can bring them up as our companions or simply leave them alone.

The right response to a cruel master is to fight him back. And you absolutely lack this mentality, this is why you are called the sheep of God and he is your shepherd. You're a spiritual chihuahua.

>I don't listen to or read EMJ
Do it if you want to reinforce your "Logos rising" mentality. He excels at it.
I don't oppose the natural order, I'm learning what that even is through my life. Simple axions like Logos = God = Jesus don't do the trick for me, I don't buy it.

>>15160446
>In simplistic terms, yes.
How?

Hard mode: no "going back to some golden age point"

>>15160403
The Church is not a human institution. It is a divine institution. It was instituted by God and was proclaimed by God to last until the end of time. God himself said that the Church will be guided by God, and God can neither decive nor be deceived. The men who are called by God to govern the Church may err, and theologies may be proposed which are false, but the activities of men who belong to the Church must be seperated from the Church itself. Hence why I was talking of dogma. What the Church has pronounced and defined is Truth itself. It cannot be contradicted, corrected, or revised. Dogma develops only by process of elaboration and clarification. If the Church cannot be infallible, then nothing the Church puts forward is worthy of belief--it all rests on the authority of God. If men of the Church can never be infallible, then there is no method by which the Church can be infallible. Even the Canon of Scripture is a dogmatic declaration of the Church. If neither the Pope nor the Councils can be infallible, no canon be accepted. If no canon can be accepted, then nothing can be taken as scripture. As you can see, this immediately falls into the same directionless more as Hinduism. For tradition to exist, there must be orthodoxy. For there to be orthodoxy, there must be dogma. For there to be dogma, there must be infallibility. If the Church is not granted infallibility, then it is all worthless.

>>15160473
If we take nihilism to mean the belief in dissolution of absolute truth to the degree that life is meaningless, or something along those lines, then the notion of Tradition in its essence contradicts this since it implies the existence of a knowable and realizable absolute truth.

>>15160533
This is a very solid argument to which my response would be weak (though I still have one) but I am going to think on it and use it to make my argument stronger

>>15159966
t. incel

even Guenon said the Catholic Church is the best hope for a return to Tradition in the West

>>15159966
>YHVH is in no way "the Truth"

>>15159966
>YHVH

lol @ this

yeah go back to jerking off to muscled men pics on twitter you cuck, incel

>>15160458
To add, you should read Meditations on the Tarot by this man right here.

>>15159241
>>We killed God
>>it is just her dead corpse we're hugging
>he hasn't gotten the memo yet

>>15159885
>but it's as close as we westerners can get
>The West and the East align on fundamental truths
You know absolutely nothing about Christianity if you want to seriously claim that it "aligns" on "most things" with "eastern truths".
>Look at religion as a tool or a pathway to higher truth
Spoken like a true modernist bugman.

>>15161161
Pathetic christcuck cope, grow up!

>>15160128
>how you get protestants who ignore all the inconvenient parts of Christian tradition
>I never said the Church was infallible
>as close as you can get to finding the truth

Make no mistake about not being one of these protestants. You're just a 'right-wing' protestant who takes the 'based' parts of the faith because it subjectively suits you and your goals. It's really not substantially different from what so-called 'liberal christians' do in America. It's amusing how you people cry about modernity being so all-pervasive and insidious but don't see how you are merely its servants.

>>15161190
>denies the resurrection of Christ
bugman detected

>>15161099
There are very few ancient greeks piece of art depicting homosexual acts.
From the laws of athene and sparta we know sexual intercourse between to free citizens was not legal

>>15154781

>>15161276
>A group of scientists
Stopped reading right there.

>>15161276
Tradition BTFO

>>15159797
>Traditionalism
>nihilist
both are entirely creations of modernity and do not address the root cause of the problem (a falling away from the only true God). you cannot save yourself.

>>15161276

This is retarded. If you stop feeding the monkeys I can guaran-fucking-tee that they will go for the banooners.
They have no need to get the bananas, so why would they go out of their way to get them?

>>15161276
>new monkey gets beat up
>openly questions the social order
>convinces other monkeys to overthrow present order
>monkey war
>monkey societal collapse
>charismatic monkey goes up ladder
>everyone gets soaked
>remaining monkeys mourn the tragedy of disregarding tradition
>charismatic monkey gets guillotined

>>15161243
>>15161285
>there are only two ways, the one where you blindly believe and follow a desert scroll or the one of S O Y E N C E
There is a third position. Reject the false dichotomy and see abrahamic religions for what they are - complete and utter crap. Also realize that scientism brings us harm.

Now stop spamming this board and fuck of to a place where you came from!

>>15161338
By the end, all that the charismatic monkey achieved was collective suffering

>>15161339
>for what they are - complete and utter crap
Are there any non-bugman reasons why you would say this?
>abrahamic religions
A cringe modernity term invented to try and present three completely different religions as the same thing to modern bugmen.

>>15161356
>three completely different religions as the same thing to modern bugmen.
They all started with this.

>>15161326
How is Tradition a creation of modernity? If Tradition is a creation of modernity, then so is everyone and everything in the modern age. The whole premise of Tradition is that which has been preserved from pre-modern times.

>>15161276
This is most plausibly interpreted as pro-tradition if you ignore the final panel

>>15161339
>see abrahamic religions for what they are - complete and utter crap
OMG! SO MUCH THIS! I HATE HOW THESE FAITHS ARE SO EXCLUSIVIST AND INTOLERANT OF DIFFERENT PATHS TO THE SAME TRUTH! ALL RELIGIONS ARE DIFFERENT MANIFESTATION OF THE SAME PRINCIPLE!!!

>>15161370

this is why we need tradition

>>15161379
This notion of a meta-religion being "hidden" in the """"esoteric"""" core of every ancient religion is a completely modern innovation. The existence of Christianity alone refutes this stupid premise, as it has never seen any such thing being preached inside it until modernity happened in the West.
>The whole premise of Tradition is that which has been preserved from pre-modern times.
That is putting "pre-modernity" above the truth, which only a modernist bugman would do.

>>15161412
>2050
As if America will still exist at that point

>>15160931
Anon who made the "unchurched" comment here, which wasn't a criticism of your position (which I am sympathetic to) so much as what I expected to be a statement of fact.

Because you're missing basic stuff about the magisterium here. "Church authorities can't be infallible" is demonstrably not the Roman position, and the Church does in fact require assent to a number of specific propositions. There's also a big difference between a single nun's opinion in private and what dogma a bishop is allowed to teach.

Do you go to Mass? How often do you encounter the Church? Have you made efforts to meet the Church where it is, and to let it describe itself rather than projecting a mission ("ancient traditions and values") on to it?

Or is this whole interest just based on a few threads on this Taiwanese Hot Wheels collecting forum?

>>15161370
>started with this

Christianity started with creation in Eden.
Judaism started as a reaction against Christianity when the rabbis crucified Christ and is just a neo-platonistic completely delusional/magical reading of God and the Old Testament meshed with the Talmudic legal system.
Islam started as a pagan's interpretation of what a judaistic legal framework/war manual with some monotheism thrown in would look like.

>>15154781
>tradition: solutions to forgotten problems (typically social transaction cost reduction)
>traditionalism: observing tradition in a way that when taught to the next generation, holds the promise of reducing social transaction costs even further
The spirit of the law in living daily life, to the letter of the law in religion.

>>15161449
>No, WE are the real jews the post
Pathetic

>>15161412
The white genocide happened when America let non-anglos immigrate and integrate into America. I'm not talking about muh blacks. The Irish, the Germans, that's when you white nationalists should've been at work. Now it's far too late.

It's reverence and excavation of equilibrium states

>>15161480
true but that can't be corrected

>>15159529
>nigredo
It is the ashes as the nest of the phoenix, too
>"to struggle again with the shadow, as with some older night"

>>15161276
this literally promotes Traditionalism

>>15161475
Does belief in reincarnation and pre-existence of souls sound like the legitimate religion of the Old Testament to you? You're just playing into (((their))) hands by giving them false legitimacy to interpret the Holy Bible. They lost it when they went ahead and crucified its author. Just read the Gospels where Christ constantly criticizes the rabbis of his time 2000 years ago for perverting the truth, so just imagine how much they innovated in even 500 years after murdering him. It's no wonder their kind doesn't even like to mention his name.

>>15161339
>blindly believe and follow a desert scroll

>>15161414
You don’t understand Tradition. See this is the problem. On this board you get dozens of commentators who read maybe one or two books and act like experts or maybe don’t read at all and think they understand something completely because they read a synopsis online or something. I don’t mean to attack you personally but Tradition is not a philosophy. It’s not a modern invention. It’s not invented or created. It’s not mutually exclusive with Christianity either.

>>15161749
>It’s not mutually exclusive with Christianity either.
Prove it.

>>15161749
>NOO MOM ITS NOT NEW AGE ITS MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT! ITS NOT A PHASE ITS WHO I AM!

>>15161412
the best possible future for the USA is to dump all the white Americans onto the thawed Antarctica while partitioning the USA into indigenous, Hispanic, and black states, change my mind
I say Antarctica and not Europe because 1) Europeans hate Americans and 2) Americans love to explore and colonize things

>>15157024
trad girl is the new gamer gir

>>15157024
Trad girls are the new gamer girls

>>15154781
routine

>>15161755
>>15161772
This is why you can’t have a serious discussion of this stuff on this board. You’re either challenged to provide a systematic analysis of an entire religious philosophy in a single reply otherwise it’s a “gotcha” or you just get some snide know-nothing remark. Anyone expecting albeit less rigorous but nonetheless serious discussion on these things here is wasting their time.

>>15161920
>claims obvious absurdities like "it’s not mutually exclusive with Christianity" when Christianity claims exclusive access to the full truth
you're naturally going to get ridiculed on 4chan of all places for taking such stances and not substantiating them with anything serious.

>>15161524
Dude, it's over. You and I both know the desert series are all crap. It doesn't matter what some Bedouin goat-fucker said many hundred years ago.
The age of religions is over, we're all gonna have to bite into that, it's uncomfortable yes. But simply digging your head back into the sand won't do it.

>>15159071
>oh nooo he killed someone!1!
The blond beast must vent his savage instincts from time to time. Seethe harder, soiboi

>>15162074
>Dude, it's over. You and I both know the desert series are all crap. It doesn't matter what some Bedouin goat-fucker said many hundred years ago.
>The age of religions is over, we're all gonna have to bite into that, it's uncomfortable yes. But simply digging your head back into the sand won't do it.

>>15162074
>it's over
when Christ comes the Evangelists might write new letters to the churches about the events so it's not over yet.

>>15154781
Doing something in a chromatic fashion based on a sentimental point of view

>>15154865
>dictated by fear
I believe the full implications of Evola's worldview, which is hardly contained by this cartoonish, mid-witted caricature you've invented, are far more terrifying to consider than the professed certainties of modernist thought, especially to the likes of you and your ilk What utter projection, and a brainlet take at that.

>>15157592
>>15157655
Americans never seriously held any traditions. Hell, the founding of the United States itself was in principle anti-tradition.

>>15158943
Nietzsche was more of a psychologist than a poet or philosopher.

>>15160274
Tell the laws of physics to fuck off and then try walking off a high cliff.

>>15158432
Personally, I blame anglos

>>15159329
>Actually study the people you want to criticize
I just told you I did brainlet. But I'm sorry if I didn't pass the initiatory lsd/magic mushroom-rite or spend decades of my life getting hung up on some german socio-ethical writer and so judge Evola and his handling of the modern condition too '''''''''''rationaly''''''''''''

>>15159332
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reddit

>>15159381
lol

>>15162074
But see: all the best thins about Christianity were plagiarized from the Greeks! Just dump the Jewish mythology and keep the intelligent blue-eyes

>>15159797
Metaphysically speaking, Evola proposed a two step process of "becoming Oneself" that everyone here is engaged in at some level whether they're aware of it or not:

(1) Proving knowledge of himself as a determined being, and...

(2) of himself as a being in whom the transcendent dimension is positively present.

"...The latter is the ultimate basis of his own law, and its supreme justification. After everything has collapsed and in a climate of dissolution, there is only one solution to the problem of an unconditioned and intangible meaning to life: the direct assumption of one's own naked being as a function of transcendence." — Evola, Ride the Tiger (pg. 75)

The first stage is well covered by Nietzsche and repeated by Evola, but not without critiques. The part that worried Evola (and me) about this stage is that people STOP at this stage. If one stops there, they'll find themselves with no idea what to apply their power towards, as we are fundamentally "divided beings". This uncenteredness can manifest itself in destructive ways, as evidenced by many of the characters in Dostoyevsky novels.

What I find interesting is Evola essentially hints at the fact that Nietzsche's madness is a result of not understanding this (Dionysus without Apollo). I personally never really bought the "syphilis induced madness" theory, because it's the perfect cope for people who don't want to spend the time understanding Nietzsche's work. "I have a feeling of living a life that is risky to the highest degree—I am one of those machines that might explode, " said Nietzsche.

The essential second stage is touched on by Evola, and others have already described that process from a Hindu perspective. "Returning to the unmanifest source" IS this stage. There are various mystical traditions to choose from when going through this process, and I'm personally drawn to (radical, non-Western) Zen due to its distilled formulations, but the goal is the same.

"The consequence of this union, existentially speaking, is a most particular kind of lucid inebriation, one might almost say intellectualized and magnetic, which is the absolute opposite of what comes from the ecstatic opening to the world of elementary forces, instinct and 'nature'." — Evola, Ride the Tiger (pg. 66)

To conclude with a Hindu metaphor, "the wild destructive Mahakali can only stop her fury in the presence of Shiva, so that the balance of life is not completely overrun by her wild nature."

>>15156693
>muh placenta

>>15163121
Good post.

>>15155259
this is so bizarre to me because the indo-european and semitic civilizations were enormously intertwined, with the levantine, mesopotamian and egyptian civilizations far predating the indo-european ones significantly. did the egyptians and babylonians "corrupt" the minoans and greeks with the invention of writing? also considering the indo-european were themselves the nomads settling in new lands how was their adoption of different cultural attributes somehow a sneaky subversion instead of their own voluntary adaptation?

I will explain mine.

Recognize the importance of tradition, follow the good parts and filter out the bad parts.

Realize that a strong foundation is necessary for growth.

>>15163511
Because there is a point to realize that semitic brainworm doesn't fit with the strength-based nomadic society.

Either it adapts, or it is filtered.

>>15154781
>A trad is
a low IQ sexually repressed faggot who's whole ego is based off the work of someone else so they can feel special as capitalism chips away at there non empower consumerist lives. Sadly they are to dumb to ever find this out so they resort to religion or conspiracy theory in an attempt to easy the pain of modernity.

>>15163535
Your a tripfag, why would anyone believe anything that you could say?

>>15154781
It's a code word used as a cover for hating people who aren't white

>>15161480
Wrong. Germans > Anglos. The Founders didn't understand that at a primordial level they were inferior.

The tribal spirit must be unleashed again.

>>15163547
>cant handle the argument
>lol you gay

>>15163535
Post body with timestamp

>>15163571
There was nothing in your ad hominem that was even close to an argument.

>>15163608
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT JUST PSYCHOANALYZE ME THROUGH A MATERIALIST LENS!!! MUH HEKN VAGUE MYSTICAL ESSENCE NO NO NO NOOOOOOO!!!!! MUH WHEAT FIELDS!!!!! MUH BLOND 15 YEAR OLD WIFE!!! YOU CANT DO THIS!!!!!

>>15163631
>he didn't post body

>>15163635
>I NEED TO SEE YOU MUSCLE! NOT POSTING GAY PORN OF YOUR SELF ON 4CHAN MAKES YOU GAY!!!!!! I WIN BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT A RANDOM FAG ONLINE TOLD YOU TO DO!!!!! EVROPA SAVED!!!

>>15163642
Why do you act like this?

>>15163648
Because I hate living in a world of scared retards.
Trad shit is a fucking cope or people that cant handle reality.

>>15163672
Trad shit is the foundation and every houses/persons on Earth are built upon a foundation.

Hating the foundation is not going to do you good.

>>15163696
Only in a seance of community, yet everything in the world is backwards from what it could be. The whole structure of our civilization is wrong and there for its foundations are wrong.

>>15163721
Yep, sound like a rebellious teenager.

>>15163727
So I should just conform to a community that not only doesn't benefit me but harms me. A capitalist society has no solution to climate change and the traditions of the west (Christianity) uphold this system.

>>15163746
So save up money and move up somewhere you like and doesn't harm you, rebel.

>>15163750
>move up somewhere you like and doesn't harm you
Doesn't understand climate change

>>15163672
Nigga, everything is a cope or a larp.

>>15163757
Climate change is such a goddamn meme, christ.

Maybe save up and go into the ISS?

>>15161099
this unironically

>>15163765
>not even an eco fascist at the least
not gonna make it when SHTF

>>15163779
Eco fascists care about the environment, not this sky is falling meme.

>>15163790
You know what a fossil fuel is shit head?
this is what I was on about

>>15163801
Fossil fuel doesn't actually harm the environment all that much, and it's a necessary resource for an industrial society.

>>15154781
Denial-ism or cope-ism

>>15163803
Moron - you have no idea what you are talking about - besides, if fossil fuels are necessary for an industrial society, given their environment damage which is only deniable from a position of wilful ignorance, we should tear down industrial society

>>15163815
Why? Industrial society is a necessary step for development of technology.

Only when we have a decent infrastructure and scientific community/equipment, we can talk about moving from fossil fuel.

And yes, fossil fuel doesn't harm the environment all that much.

>>15163803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H2v7kTVPIE

>>15163840
Yeah, maybe JP Morgan economist should stop participating in society then.

Because only the development of technology from the industrial society can help humanity moving from the use of fossil fuel.

>>15163827
>development of technology
Why?

>>15163121
Finally a quality post here, some actual discussion

>>15163956
To solve climate change AND maintain the level of human multiplication.

>>15163121
>(1) Proving knowledge of himself as a determined being, and...
>(2) of himself as a being in whom the transcendent dimension is positively present.

Excellent post. I still struggle to understand these two steps though. How are Nietzsche and Evola in agreement in regard to the first exactly?

>>15163511
It’s bizarre because that’s not the Traditional perspective. Your point of view is closer in that regard.

>>15161276
well i dont want a cold shower, you stupid mogrel
you filthy communists get the cold shower on the day of the rope

No. I don't have to.

>>15157592
>>15157592
>>15157592
This guy gets it, fuck Evola.

Mircea Eliade called the traditionalism of Guenon and Evola "artificial and ahistorical"

>>15154781
>muh statues
>muh wheat fields
>muh statistics

>>15163746
>and the traditions of the west (Christianity) uphold this system.
Pope Francis is about on par with Greta Thunberg when it comes to climate change. Protip - "The West" hasn't been Christian in at least 70 years

>>15165041
>Protip - "The West" hasn't been Christian in at least 70 years
Amateur. "The West" is on a course of decline since the time Renaissance. Only Traditionalfags will understand

>>15160442
See, this is actual traditionalism, unlinke Evola's "integral" traditionalism, which is just esoteric modernism.

>>15161161
that's clearly a pussy
varg was right all along

>>15158302
what a fucking cow lmao

>>15161052
“ Today with difficulty, if not exceptionally in some close to dangerous existential crises, the potentiality of Christianity at its beginnings as that “tragic doctrine of salvation” can be re-actualized. The problem is not set and we even say without reticence that if anyone who has known, for some time, nothing other than the vainest constructions of philosophy and the secular plebeian university culture of today or the contaminations of the various contemporary individualisms, aestheticisms, and romanticisms, would “convert” to Catholicism and would experience truly the faith at least, with a total commitment and possibly in a “sacrificial” sense, that would signify not an abdication but rather, in spite of everything, a progress.” - Julius Evola in the Mask and Face of Contemporary Spiritualism

>>15154781
Here's a good mnemonic I use:

We did it before so we do it now
If someone has new ideas, we say, "I'd rather be sodomized by a cow."

>>15167821
Here's mine:

For him there's no then and now, for him there's always here.
Why change? He'd rather have a buffalo take a diarrhea dump in his ear.

>>15163121
Good post, anon. Very interesting. I should continue my reading of Evola when I'm done with exams.

>>15154865
>will understand that this stance is dictated by fear
Dropped. Not even a traditionalist, rather against it in fact, but once someone says “this specific stance is obviously a result of fear” like they have some objective psychological reading and purpose behind something I can tell they are only interested in polemics. It’s like saying
>“Communists are only communists because they are bad at making money and fear having to work”
Or
>”stoics are just afraid to have responsibility”

Yah, sure that might be an accurate assessment of why some or many people initially flock to those views, but it doesn’t explain the legitimacy or lack of legitimacy of a system. Just that some bias’s often come with the package. It’s the actual assessment of the stance that’s interesting.

So, will we be able to transcend if it comes to WW3? Will we be able to savor the glory of battle, the greatness of heroism?

>>15167173
Can you please scan and upload that book for us? It's literally impossible to find.

>>15169507
you don't need to wait for WWIII. Just join the army and you'll have your opportunity for heroics. In case you don't know, war heriocs has nothing to do with your side being "right" or "wrong" or for being "good" or "bad." the value is in the heroics themselves.

>Man who cringed at traditionalists when he thought they were only past worshiping larpers cringes for a second time after realizing they also believe in witchcraft, magic spells and a collective unconscious

>evola
Cringe

>>15170360
>believe in witchcraft, magic spells
All exist and are demonic.
>collective unconscious
Now thats some major cringe.

>>15171376

>>15165041
Reading the Pope's comments from this morning, the views he expressed are actually supremely traditional. It is dogma that by Man's sin, death entered the world. In the truly traditional understanding, it is man's wickedness that is the direct cause of all suffering in nature. Though apocryphal, the Book of Enoch suggests that it was by Cain's murder of Abel that Roses were given thorns. It is further dogma that Man may know and contemplate God by creation, that all created things when seen in the light of God give glory to God. To be careless with his creation, which was our first charge, before even the command to multiply, is to sin, first by the harm done to God's creation and second by the disrespect we show God for being so careless for what he has made. More importantly, The West has never and will never exist. It was a false perspective put forward by secular thinkers to try and firge a coherent narrative for Europe that dimished the inportance of Christianity. there is only Christendom and the World.

>>15157024
Left can't meme

>>15154781
fun make believe to shut you up and make you do as your told

>>15171802
cringe

>>15171376
YHVH is demonic

Why don’t any of the conservative dipshits on here read gadamer? Surely he could offer something a little better than evola’s spooky bullshit.

>>15173368
>the one who is is demonic
cringe.

>>15154781

A romantic and idealized vision of the past used to paint the modern day and condition as degenerate and spiraling downward where the past is the height of culture and standard ignoring the reality of their situation being not all that different from our own in most respects.

>>15173392
>the jew war god is demonic

Fify

>>15173416
>>the jew war god is demonic

>>15173571
>"I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."
Sounds demonic to me. No benevolent god would ever do that

>>15173790
>Sounds
>to me
Subjectivity is demonic.
>No benevolent god would ever do that
Why not? He created the life in the first place and knew where they would end up due to their bad behavior. God decided that it was better to just destroy them for their own sake.

>>15169554
It’s translated from the Italian, unfortunately. I believe Arktos published it in English but I don’t know if it’s still available.

>>15154781
First principles. Not LARPing as a viking, not sentimentalizing over the long-dead rabbi, not replacing genuine principles with materialist hedonism and nihilism, but simple first principles.

>>15163121
There it is, the one weekly good post on /lit/.

bump

>>15173920
>Speaks in tongues
>Eats the body and drinks blood of his savior
>Believes he will rise from the dead like a zombie in the end
Yup, christianity confirmed for a demonic cult

>>15163121
>"The consequence of this union, existentially speaking, is a most particular kind of lucid inebriation, one might almost say intellectualized and magnetic, which is the absolute opposite of what comes from the ecstatic opening to the world of elementary forces, instinct and 'nature'." — Evola, Ride the Tiger (pg. 66)
>To conclude with a Hindu metaphor, "the wild destructive Mahakali can only stop her fury in the presence of Shiva, so that the balance of life is not completely overrun by her wild nature."
This conflict bothers me a lot, especially because the 'lucid inebriation' you're associating with Shiva is severely neglected by almost everyone in comparison with mystical ecstasies.

Americans who larp as European traditionalists are cringe

>>15176100
Being American is by definition anti-Traditionalist. They are the product of (((enlightenment)))

>>15174347
>dude seven hermetic principles lmao

>>15176279
America is supposed to be a new beginning, the true American spirit is futurism. Tradition is something that occurs after long periods of time, it's organic and can't be artificially imported

>>15176363
the Kybalion is new age mutt nonsense

>>15176397
>the Kybalion is new age mutt nonsense
As opposed to trad mutt nonsense?

>>15176053
but why?

>>15154781
evola defines it in the first page of ride the tiger which you can see a preview of on amazon.

>>15176609
Ah, so it really is esoteric modernism.

>>15176670
yeah, definitely esoteric. definitely has the pagan "connection with the cosmos/gods" thing going on. i like it.

>>15176712
Yeah, but it's the modernism part that people who call themselves traditionalists should reflect on. Constructing new "traditionalist", "futurist" or "fascist" utopias was a turning point for the political right because it broke with being conservative decided to get in on the revolution, essentially becoming a variation of the political left.

>>15176428
As opposed to the actual Greek Corpus Hermeticum instead of whatever modern interpretive bullshit is being shilled.

>>15176909
i'm not following. can you "revolt against the modern world" without a revolution?

>>15164972
Fuck off

>>15177144
That depends on what you mean by revolution. If you say revolution in the etymological return to the origin then yes, otherwise no.

>>15177144
Yes, by preserving what is left of pre-modernity. Not by reshaping the world in accordance with "eternal" ideals that are supposedly "traditional" because you constructed them after reading ancient texts - that IS modernism. Evola is trying to conquer the all-encompassing transformation of the pre-modern world, not avert it. He is not revolting against the modern world in general. He is revolting against a modern world in favour of an alternative modern world.

>>15161276
So monkeys are doing the "right" thing (avoiding cold water) even if they don't know why.

>>15157592
>>15164992
Why are you engaging in a false dialectic? If tradition is a transedential ideal, it can be both essentially modern and tradional.

>>15177702
>If tradition is a transedential ideal
That's a big if.

>traditionalism
Return to Christ instead. You're not 'too good' or 'too smart' to worship Him.

>>15178873
No thanks I'm not Jewish

>>15178873
Based

>>15178873
It's more a question of dignity than being 'good' or 'smart'.