/lit/ - Literature

>>15160358
Yes. Progressivism is always on the offensive, conservatism is always on the offense. Conservatives will inevitably fail every time. A secular humanist technocracy is the only possible future.

>>15160358
There's not a single left wing artist and I'm not even kidding

You stole my post from /his/ faggot

>>15160358
Leftism is sociological entropy. You can temporary put the top on the kettle but the steam is going to come out eventually. Politics is thermodynamic.

>>15160368
conservatism is always on the defence*

>>15160358
spending so much time being hateful always lead to failure

>>15160358
Is every left wing ideology bound to fail?

We often here talks about “culture wars” yet the left has no culture war to win because they do not possess culture. They are fundamentally proactive and resentful. They only create, they do not retain. They see eternal progress as a means in itself rather than for a lasting culture. How does an ideology like this survive?

>>15160358
Ive seen the right say this exact same thing about the left lol. Anyway culture is a combination of tradition and innovation, you need both. And every ideology has a short lifespan in reality, times change.

>>15160370
Any way I am interested to see the disparity in how /lit/ replies to this to confirm that /his/ is indeed the better board.

>>15160358
This is not wrong, the right has been a bastion of counter culture ie 4chan /pol/, they are forced to be subterranean due to explicit censorship, but on the flip side Marxists/REAL Communists are very obscure as well. The political landscape and media is dominated by liberalism and alternative forms of liberalism such as social democracy ie Bernie crowd, and SJWism mixed with pseudo socialism (mostly socdem) aka radlibs/bredtubers. The Italian futurists constituted a Fascist culture, unfortunately for Fascists modern Fascists have degenerated into something akin to tradfag culture war bullshit.

>>15160358
Any group that believes "culture"
A. Is a reified and quantifiable phenomenon
B. Has a certain character
C. Is able to be controlled by the government
Is doomed to fail regardless of where on the political spectrum they fall

The right wing is fueled by resentment and paranoia, the left is concerned with real solutions to peoples material problems

>>15160375
What a pseudointellectual crock, borrowing scientific vocabulary like that

>>15160358
The right is the only one producing culture in the modern world.

>>15160651
That's not true at all lmao

>>15160681
It really is. 4chan is literally the lifeblood of Zoomer culture. The left is corporate now. For all intents and purposes, the right is the new left.

>>15160622
No he's pretty much right, it just burns everything down

>>15160407
This thread is off topic here, it is on topic in /his/ so keep it there

>>15160701
This. It's megacorporates that back all the "progressive" causes as its a great vehicle for selling a lifestyle, expanding markets & acting as a cover for economic exploitation. Government is just a thin shell to protect the interests of the Capitalist class now. The closest thing to a real "anti-Capitalist" movement is the various emerging Third Position meme ideologies, and maybe some of the Post-Left positions like AnPrim. I'd even classify NazBol and Tankies in the same milieu.

>>15160622
I wasn't trying to feign intelligence; I would (mis)use something more advanced than a metaphor of a scientific principle learned in middle school. I'm sorry you are so retarded as to confuse someone using basic "science words" as some attempt appear intelligent, like some nigger flabbergasted when confronted with a entry-level college math textbook and cries "yo this shit is madeup whitey trying to act smart". I'm also sorry that you unwittingly promote more Science (Natural Philosophy)-Philosophy separatism.

>>15160876
>I would (mis)use something more advanced than a metaphor of a scientific principle learned in middle school
*if I wanted to do that.

>>15160790
>>15160701
Take a break from 4chan, this site also champions pedophiles, bronies, incels, and other low vibration ideologies. The Neo Right isn't so much counter cultural as it is a foreign psyop

>>15160358
black anon here.
the problem with the right wing is they start being racist.
and the thing is "when you're an asshole, nobody wants to give you the satisfaction of saying you are correct even if you are correct."
i would lean right if the far right wasn't so racist, so i lean neither.

>>15160917
They have deeper problems besides just being hostile and racist, if anything their racial vitriol is a symptom of their neurotic world view

>>15160904
>pedophiles, bronies, incels, and other low vibration ideologies.
well this shit is all 'counter cultural' if you take that term in its literal sense. It is despised by mainstream culture

apart from the early punks who made a point of being as disgusting as possible this seems to have been lost on the 'counter cultures' we've seen

>>15160904
>this site also champions pedophiles, bronies, incels, and other low vibration ideologies.
bizarre take, and not at all accurate

Yes, but only because Left-wing ideology has no end.

>>15160962
yes it does. forced assimilation into a digital hivemind.

>>15160917
Race is a faulty categorical system, but most individuals that happened to be labeled "black" are worthless niggers, you understand? Lets assume complete individualized meritocracy: most "blacks" would be on the tail-end of the hierarchy. The problem is that racialism is just race-based socialism, contrasted with class-based socialism of Marxists, instead of just no socialism at all. The genetic deadweight of "whites" are saved by the umbrella that labeling provides, that's why most trailer trash are racist.
Blacks are no different. The successful blacks that don't want to associate with their nigger kind are called Uncle Toms, like crabs in a bucket. Back when eugenics was cool, there were blacks who supported cleaning up their genepool, but you literally never heard of them for a reason.

>>15160925
if they could pull themselves together and stop being so neurotic i would really lean right, because the left is turning this world into clown world, the racism is literally the only thing stopping me.

i know someone who works with kids and they told me they met a kid who at 10 years old thinks they are bisexual and a advocate for lgbtq rights. when i was 10 my life was so spontaneous and care free which is the way kids should be they don't need to worry about sexuality and advocate stuff until they grow older.

>>15160991
I've been involved with both circles, the right is just as clown world as the left, and in a way even more perverse.

>>15160358
Politics is too derivative to encompass an ontology, they borrow from philosophy. Obv rw had a culture war online and in protests, still do, but it is destined to fail

>>15160987
there are so many stupid whites, and there are also so many gangsta whites like the mafia is just one example but all whites are not considered mafia thugs or dumb but for some reason people think all blacks are some how violent gangsta thugs and all dumb.
(also don't get me started on how whites have dropped two nuclear bombs which are like several natural disasters rolled into one but some how the public commonsense is that blacks are a bigger treat than whites)

>>15160991
Black anon, the point is that you simply want to go back in time to a few decades ago when things were better
What you have to understand is that the world we live in now is a consequence of the mistakes made in the past.
Things didn't happen in a vacuum.
And many black leaders collaborated with "racists". The founder of the american nazi party often made speeches for black movements.

>i was 10 my life was so spontaneous and care free which is the way kids should be they don't need to worry about sexuality and advocate stuff until they grow older.
This is how it started from me. From being a liberal/libertarian and anti-racist in the truest sense of the word, not in the bullshit sjw sense (i.e. everyone is equal at birth, everyone should be free to do what he wants as long as it isn't harmful to others etc) to being suspecting that maybe the conservatives were right in so many aspects.
Many years later, well, the rest is history.
It will happen to you too.

>>15160987
The individual or macro group doesn't allow for an ontology and there's no sole biological determinism, or even to a large degree. To some point there's environmental or we'd literally never change technologies

>>15160358
The “Left” doesn’t create anything either, though individual leftists might. This is classic bugman failfuck cope, where you try to pretend you’re not a walking abortion because you’ve aped a popular ideology.

Prove me wrong.

>>15161026
Public commonsense among who anon?
The majority of headlines kept repeating for months "are straight white males the biggest terrorist threat etc"
It's a fact that blacks commit the majority of low level crime, not only in the US where I assume you come from (I'm not from the USA). If blacks invented the atom bomb they would have done the same as whites.
In the world everyone is violent, especially towards what we consider different. Whites and blacks don't do well in the same countries.
By the way, I do think that blacks have, in general, lower impulse control than whites. That's just a fact. Instead of taking offense for it you should work hard to improve yourself and your loved ones and your people

>>15161067
You ever think the reason the answer, which you advise to just pay attention to yourself, is not in the same racial category is because you can't have a racial ontology which answers this?

>>15160904
>The Neo Right isn't so much counter cultural as it is a foreign psyop
Hahahah, lemme' guess, 'RUSSIAN HACKERS' amirite?

>>15161039
You got brainwashed by /pol/front hypnotism, it's no different than a teenager who found TheAmazingAtheist videos in 2011 and started hating Christianity. Unfortunately you're wrong about almost everything

>>15161089
In the same category, I mean, not same racial*

>>15161091
It doesn't matter if it's Russian oligarchs, Jewish oligarchs, Chinese oligarchs, the point is that the neo right is largely a political psyop that retards fall for

>>15161091
No you moron, not him but that's about as a cold take to assume ppl who call it a foreign psyop are taking vocabulary from the anti news organizations and then using their theories.

>>15161095
>you've been brainwashed by egalitarianism. You're no different than new atheism blah blah blah

>>15161039
>And many black leaders collaborated with "racists". The founder of the american nazi party often made speeches for black movements.

it sucks that we have to suffer for the mistakes of the past. if given the choice i would become white, not because i think being white is superior in any way more than blacks but so i can live and easier life were i don't have to live under some stigma about how all blacks a thugs,ugly,and dumb till the day i die, that shit gave me an existential crisis and made question my own existence and made me spiral into crippling depression in high school know that there are people who think badly of me and want me dead purely based on genetics i never choose despite knowing nothing about me personality wise and there is no way to escape it.

>>15161091
You're either a reddit emigrant or you're in baby /pol/ ideology. Either way you're in between idiot ideologies and it shows by your conclusions.

>>15161089
Answer to what? Which cat

>>15161129
This is a terrible psyop. I suggest you actually study the position more because I imagine you'll become influenced by it

>>15161129
Stop trying to appease morons who would never accept you and want to see you stunted, start reading leftist literature and educate yourself.

>>15161132
Your answer to the racial problem was in your last sentence. It surprisingly had nothing to do w race. My point was that race isn't broad enough to have an answer. It's missing the ontology to do anything in it

>>15161129
>don't have to live under some stigma about how all blacks a thugs,ugly,and dumb till the day i die, that shit gave me an existential crisis and made question my own existence and made me spiral into crippling depression in high school know that there are people who think badly of me and want me dead purely based on genetics i never choose despite knowing nothing about me personality wise and there is no way to escape it.
I know things are hard. Fight against this, and don't surrender. Everyone has his own battle, anon. The moment you let ((them)) make you into an helpless victim is the moment you lose. Lift, improve yourself as much as you can, make yourself stronger physically, financially, emotionally. Learn how to do what you think is right, and to become superior to judgement by others. Don't look for approval, listen to yourself.
The world has always been harsh, and now it's worse than ever.
I can't tell you how to live your life and to fix your own particular situation, because it's yours. Every great thinkers had moments of crisis. Julius Evola almost killed himself at 23.

>>15161132
Basically you spoke about race then said be utilitarian. Utilitarianism has nothing to do w race so we have to assume a racial conversation for solutions is too superficial

>>15160358
The weird thing is the so-called conservatives of today aren't even conservative. They support the most liberal economic policies which create instability. The progressives are more conservative. They at least are trying to create more stable living conditions - conditions under which culture and tradition can actually survive.

>>15161160
Now, it was an answer to that anon on how to live an happier and more honorable life.
I.e. just because you and your loved ones and your kin have problems, doesn't mean you have to hate yourself

>>15161067
This is why the American right is doomed. You can't get over the urge to call a guy who AGREES WITH YOU a "nigger'. The USA will become a blue one party state within the next 10 years because of people like you.

>>15161179
Read this
>>15161185
It was a personal advice to a person.

>>15161189
Sure, so if you assume a racial ontology, how do you solve race inside a racial ontology, particularly your own race. You can't refer to science or philosophy of course which is extraneous from it.

>>15160987
this is probably the stupidest post ive ever seen lmao

>>15160358
every ideology is destined to fail, some just do it faster than others.

>>15161198
I don't care about the US, I'm not American.
I speak my mind about whaver I want. I don't lie to appease people if not needed. I bear no ill intentions

>>15161199
Sure I just don't accept a racial narrative just as much as I don't accept politics. It's too superficial and is too ambiguous and clumsy. There's no answer in either. It's about as genuine as new atheists borrowing science and utilitarianism and nihilism to argue they have a paradigm outside of 'I hate religion'.

>>15161198
the US will become a blue country because of the 1965 Immigration Act, which was passed without the consent of the population. Whites still vote red

>>15161200
What does "solving race" even mean? What is there to solve?

>>15161198
Shut the fuck up burger

>>15161113
And your citations are...?
>>15161130
>clumsy attempt to classify me
Pathetic. Why do you even try?
>>15161114
Why are you surprised by "cold takes" being used here? Better question: How new are you? This is as good a way to drive you to elaborate your tinfoil-hat thoughts as it's going to get around here.

>>15161211
>Whites still vote red
Vermont

>>15161199
>>15161210
I meant read this >>15161189
I missclicked

>>15160407
checking back on this thread and I conclude that /his/ is indeed the better board

>>15161219
You proclaimed an issue was an issue because it was racial. I do not think any of those issues are racial anymore than I think they're human issues or that stalin is defined as a person with a funny moustache. It's superficial and offers no solutions. If you assume it's a racial problem, or under its metaphysical jurisdiction, how do you solve it within its jurisdiction

>>15161240
Which issue?

>>15161227
Well recommend any better place? This is the best there is. I haven't invaded ivory towers but they're fart-sniffery of what I have invaded.

>>15160369
Are you um.....”retarded”?

>>15160358
Hyper-liberal societies are destined to fail, since they lose control of their women (there are many other reasons, but that is primary). Unless some massive artificial-womb & egg market project is undertaken, they will eventually be overtaken by populations who don't allow this to happen (whom they will also naively welcome into their midst en masse). In response, right-wing/reactionary ideology is destined to thrive, but not necessarily to the point of critical mass (and it will be rabidly opposed). Life is indeed struggle, and I'm much more skeptical about the continued existence of people who don't realize that.

It is an open question though, whether any ideology (right or left) can hold back the reciprocal trend of capitalism+liberalism in the long run.

>>15161249
Idk I would say the crime issue maybe murder mental disorder etc. We use a human language, English at that, so we can only get so close. Maybe instead of mental issues it's sexual closeness of a culture or it could be anything, certainly it's not race. The .00002% of the population of black murderers is nowhere near the 13% of blacks in America

>>15161129
Black people survived slavery, flourished in a sense and became the center of all pop music. It's not too bad, a lot of people have perished from less and also accomplished less.
> want me dead purely based on genetics
Every person secretly wants everyone to be exactly like him and once that's accomplished it will all start over again. There's no safe haven, no eternal bliss, just an endless battle royale with no end credits. The history of your own people should be the most instructive of all; happiness and a sense of security comes from yourself.
>>15161240
There's no solution to the human condition. Race games work because they're the most intuitive of all; you look like me, therefore I can assume that you will behave like me, therefore I can assume you will succeed/fail in society like me, therefore it'll be good if we help each other.

>>15161278
>Hyper-liberal societies are destined to fail, since they lose control of their women
lol

>>15161286
Google the prisoner's dilemma

>>15161294
>Race games work because they're the most intuitive of all; you look like me, therefore I can assume that you will behave like me, therefore I can assume you will succeed/fail in society like me, therefore it'll be good if we help each other.
This hasn't been the case for most of recorded history, if anything religion has played a bigger part than race

>>15161207
My point still stands: ethnic nationalism is a doomed position to take. It can't properly fight against the woke internationalist neoliberal aristocracy. Wherever you live might be safe for now, but it won't last forever. Social conservatives in less fucked places should learn from what western conservatives learned the hard way.

>>15161179
Utilitarianism can certainly encompass racial realities; it is not limited in scope of consideration when making utility calculations. That's one of the best things about utilitarianism — it's comprehensiveness scales with the amount of variables you can process.

>>15161312
That's a good point. In logic you have an expected way things will be w race you do not because it's not perfectly a factually objective variable.

>>15161322
woke internationalist neolib 'aristocracy'(you simply can't call them that word) won't last forever either

>>15161329
Sure but using utilitarianism in certain manners is a child of the parent 'utilitarianism', it's not within the system itself. Much as you can have a sort of 'racial logic' but it is a child of logic and is thus more culpable to ambiguity as it stretches from the foundation of truth

>>15161333
Of course, but this applies outside of race too.
Human/other animals, human/plants, etc
We use heuristics. Race policies are an heuristic attempt to solve the prisoner's dilemma.
If played by more than 2 players, teams tend to create.

>>15161259
It would be a bad idea for me to freely give out this information.

>>15161322
I'm not an ethnic nationalist, I simply don't want mass immigration in the place where I live, because I know it will destroy the place where I live and it will be no longer even remotely similar.
Look at what mass immigration did to south Africa.
Every country, every culture, has always been against mass immigration.

>>15160619
if you reversed those statements you would be correct

>>15161347
Sure but it's those teams which can be faulty. Some are better than others. While the liberals and leftist and rwers try to kowtow to race on a huge cultural level, generally it's just the smarter ppl or harder working ppl in the race that sees success. Race is just a way to leech off their work. Race almost always fails hardwork and a bit of know-how always helps

>>15161372
What is a person? Individuals are not players of the prisoner's game,.individuals are teams already

>>15161318
What are you even talking about? Ethnic conflict has been ubiquitous since time immemorial. Religion allows you build larger coalitions but you'll still be working with different ethnic groups which aren't sure to coexist peacefully even if they belong to the same religion.

>>15161380
Yes that's true. You could argue an individual has culture

>>15161148
If you think so i'll give it a study

>>15161155
I would but leftist stuff seems out of touch with reality in some places while right stuff feels fueled by a bleak world view, hate. So i came to the conclusion they are both bad and i should lean neither.

the left is all about being progressive, but even that doesn't help because whenever there is a black character in fiction which there is so few of in the role of the main character it's labeled as diverse instead of just being treated as normal without any fan fair. I wish I could live in a world in which there equal amount of black characters in fiction and the only merit the characters are judged on is if the character is well written and well designed and that is all and not treated as progressive or diverse.

>>15161177
>I know things are hard. Fight against this, and don't surrender. Everyone has his own battle, anon. The moment you let ((them)) make you into an helpless victim is the moment you lose. Lift, improve yourself as much as you can, make yourself stronger physically, financially, emotionally. Learn how to do what you think is right, and to become superior to judgement by others. Don't look for approval, listen to yourself.
The world has always been harsh, and now it's worse than ever.
I can't tell you how to live your life and to fix your own particular situation, because it's yours. Every great thinkers had moments of crisis. Julius Evola almost killed himself at 23.

Thanks for the words especially that last part about great thinkers. During my high school existential crisis I did fantasize about getting my lower half crushed by a car or just getting hit by a car almost every other day and dying quickly,I even started thinking about un screwing the blade one of the school sharpeners and using it to end it all by cutting my wrist downwards and not sideways so i bleed to death.

I don't have thoughts like that anymore.
What you said about making yourself stronger resonates with me, i kind feel like me and elon musk are a lot a like ( he is the reason i started getting into /lit/ as whenever he is asked how does he know so much and is so smart he just says in a plain face "i read a lot of books".)
I also think your right in the fact that i shouldn't really look for approval as, elon also doesn't look for approval if he did he would have never started spacex and investing into commercial space flight, despite a lot of people saying it's bad.

I think you might have helped me out, even if it's just a few words but I can only know fully if I act on your words and make my life better because of them, i'll have to wait and see if they have helped but i feel like they have helped if that makes sense.

>>15161336
I would call them an aristocracy, just a sad and warped version of what used to exist. They live in homogeneous gated communities, hoard capital, and use that to run society. But they're guilty people who know that society is unjust, but they refuse to believe that they are the reason for this, as they believe their power is proof that they are just. So they manipulate societies internationally to become woker and more inclusive so that they can feel good about themselves without having to compromise their power. Traditionally, they would have an ingroup presence where the ladders up the power chain would be reserved for people like them, but woke brain damage has made them pull the ladders out from their group and has them evenly distributed to minorities. Rather than criticizing the existence of such a system, they criticize Jews and brown people for benefiting from it while they do not.
I think you are right about neoliberalism being doomed to fail, but I do not think it will be ethnic nationalism that kills it. Eventually, in their ceaseless crusade for acceptance, will do something that will piss of social conservatives in a way that transcends ethnic lines and they will hurl them out in a grand display of cosmological irony.

>>15161322
What you mean is that it's only doomed for whites. If this is the case, then there's no political position that will save them, so they might as well foster a strong in-group sensibility and thrive in smaller enclaves by doing so.

Really though, ethnic nationalism is one of the best ways to resist. It explicitly opposes both unfettered globalism and the subjugation of all higher values (like ethnos) under capitalism. The problem is that whites are predisposed to a humanitarian social strategy, which is vulnerable to being 'gamed' by outgroups and traitors.

>>15161388
We're all gonna make it fren. You are stronger than you think. Even if the world has become uglier lately, and even it has always been cruel, it's still beatiful.

>>15161411
>whites are predisposed to a humanitarian social strategy, which is vulnerable to being 'gamed' by outgroups and traitors.

True, but not completely. The problem is we're so nice that we keep forgiving over and over and over again, assuming there's no way that the people taking advantage of us are just that greedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFKaqP9RgvU

>>15161411
You do have a point there. Woke neoliberals are unable to criticize blood and soil Africans, Hispanics, etc. and even endorse them sometimes. Hence endorsing slogans like "nobody is illegal on stolen land" (implying that white people that live in the new world do not have the necessary blood ties to own the land like the indigenous people do) and "free Aztlan" .

>>15160358
>the tankie is immune to all dangers

>>15160375
>>15160460
This, otherwise polyamorous bigamist organic vegan communes wouldn't have the failure rate they do (while Mormons and Amish keep pumping them out)

>>15160917
>i would lean right if
By all means, throw in your lot with the Bernie bros calling American Blacks house_________s for not going with the Red banker -- exceptions prove the rule anyways. Read Taleb Starkes & Sowell. Pic. Related. The "plot to enslave every man, woman, and child" in the United States alluded to by JFK owes much to Paperclip Nazi worldview warfare research -- importing a mercenary electorate to form a single party Brazil-tier Babylon State is a major pillar of that program (poor blacks suffer disproportionately).

>>15161346
That statement is so incredbily vague... I don't know how you can write that and simultaneously cite the problem of ambiguity.

>>15161388
My advice, don't believe anyone's bullshit. People will try to put you into a binary, because it makes their worldview seem congruent. Take care of your family and friends and carry a gun because you never know if you'll need it.

>>15161439
Thank god for those mormons and amish.

>>15161237
Both boards are complete shit. Stop with these petty and pointless comparisons.

>>15161465
/his/ clearly is more higher quality

>>15161478
Based illiterate /his/cel

>>15161439
Mormons are a real sleeper threat to the current order. They're extremely conservative, well organized, and breed like bunnies. They carefully scope out areas and send packs of Mormons there to flip elections, then have them pump out a dozen kids each to keep that area on their side. Their religious tradition has them plan long term, pretty much all of them are gun hoarding preppers who vote in every single election. And they're commandeering wokeness by seeking out religious minorities, converting them, then weaponizing their minority status to deflect criticism of Mormonism while still organizing them to stay out of white Mormon areas.
Amish are similar in that their population is exploding, but they find politics to be worldly iirc so they avoid it. But they're pumping out so many children nonstop that they're buying out rural areas all over the country in order to have enough room. And the average Amish woman literally has around 10 kids.

>>15161294
>Black people survived slavery, flourished in a sense and became the center of all pop music. It's not too bad, a lot of people have perished from less and also accomplished less.

thanks for the encouraging words, that's one of the reasons i like anime and japanese culture a lot because it's inspired by a lot black culture especially the music anime is full of hip-hop influence and lo-fi and future funk are the baby of black culture and japanese culture, also japanese games as well like mario use jazz music and it makes me happy whenever i hear a mario soundtrack.

>Every person secretly wants everyone to be exactly like him and once that's accomplished it will all start over again. There's no safe haven, no eternal bliss, just an endless battle royale with no end credits. The history of your own people should be the most instructive of all; happiness and a sense of security comes from yourself.

I see what you mean and strongly agree, I often keep telling people, my mom has often heard me say it a hundred times by now which is "if there is intelligent life smart enough to notice any and all difference there will be war over it, it doesn't even have to be genetic difference it even can be the location of someones home compared to another home location, there are gangs that fight over post codes in this world".

>>15161421
>We're all gonna make it fren. You are stronger than you think. Even if the world has become uglier lately, and even it has always been cruel, it's still beautiful.

They do say optimism is something that can be learned, so I should probably learn to be more optimistic like you, because it will most likely make my life better and more enjoyable to go through than i'm currently experiencing.

>>15161450
>My advice, don't believe anyone's bullshit. People will try to put you into a binary, because it makes their worldview seem congruent. Take care of your family and friends and carry a gun because you never know if you'll need it.

I live in the uk, over here you are more likely to get stabbed than you are shot, so I should learn karate to disarm knife wielders.

>>15161439
I see, i'll give that book a read, though I don't live in the states so i'm more of a spectator to american politics, but I sure do feel the butterfly effect of it where i live.

>>15160358
No.

Pic related.

It's left-wing ideologies that are going to fail. They are not Lindy. They do explore Lindy stuff (most Lindy aspects of Marxism are taken from Christianity, which is Lindy) but they are not Lindy in themselves. Trannies, gay marriages, feminism, abolition of property etc. are not Lindy.

You can be pretty sure these trends won't last for more than 200, 300 years. Meanwhile, ''right-wing'' cultural habits such as making jokes about homos, having your wife cook your food, being suspicious of foreigners, hero-worship, ancestor-worship etc. will come back one way or another, most likely through Islamic demographic conquest of Europe and Mexican demographic conquest of the U.S., but there are many other possible avenues for it to happen.

Also, ''right-wing'' culture... What does it mean? I have no idea.
Now, if we are talking about the political views of great artists, many of them, maybe most, were either explicitly right-wing or had a strong conservative/aristocratic outlook on life: Ezra Pound, T.S. Eliot, Fernando Pessoa, Jorge Luis Borges, Pirandello, D'Annunzio, Celine, Valery, Baudelaire, Richard Wagner, Mishima, the list is endless...

Keep in mind that my list only includes post-French Revolution artists. If we talk about the ones who came before, then virtually all of them would be considered reactionary by today's standards. For instance, virtually all Europeans, Muslims, Japanese, Chinese artists considered other peoples, specially those who still lived in jungles, to be inferior to themselves, which is nowadays considered a very reactionary thesis. Most of them were also very suspicious of immigrants, felt national pride, favored certain wars, believed in hero-worship, ancestor-worship, Christianity, harsh punishments for criminals etc. Only in the Enlightenment do some patently modern left-wing views really begin to appear, such as in Beccaria's opposition to the death penalty.

>>15161511
>Ezra Pound, T.S. Eliot, Fernando Pessoa, Jorge Luis Borges, Pirandello, D'Annunzio, Celine, Valery, Baudelaire, Richard Wagner, Mishima
All hacks and schizos

>>15161522
Dilate.

>>15161511
>Only in the Enlightenment do some patently modern left-wing views really begin to appear, such as in Beccaria's opposition to the death penalty.
The funny thing is that even Beccaria would be called a fascist today, because he was in favour of the right to bear arms for everyone.
Ironically even the treatize against death penality is mostly utilitarian i.e. criminals are more afraid of being chained up and forced to work than dying quickly and similar arguments

>>15161522
Who do you consider to have been the great writers of the 20th century, then? Name ten.

>>15160358
read MahaPrajnaParamita-Sastra by Nagarjuna

>>15161498
>inspired by a lot black culture especially the music anime is full of hip-hop influence and lo-fi and future funk are the baby of black culture and japanese culture
For sure, and just think about those people coming up with all that great stuff. They were seen as the lowest of the low, had been denigrated for centuries and they didn't have anyone cheering them on. Truly a testament to the importance of tending your own garden even if everyone looks down on you

>"if there is intelligent life smart enough to notice any and all difference there will be war over it
A good observation as well. It's easy to become demoralized when seeing how much of the world makes sense when you conceptualize it around conflict, but it is just that, conceptualizing. Those good feelings that you have for the people you like and the stuff you like doing is what will allow you to grow and rebuild. It stops being a conflict and becomes a game of learning and understanding

>>15161544
>the right to bear arms for everyone.
This is a left wing principle despite the modern right and left refusing to admit it. It is literally equalizing access to violence, rather than creating a hierarchy.

Free speech and right to bear arms are both left wing concepts that have bizarrely switched sides.

>>15161198
Have you seen the way the American Left treats midwestern and southern whites? They use the same set of stereotypes that were used for black people in the 19th and early 20th century and just apply them to "white trash." White people can be niggers too, and they're the only niggers it's okay to insult for being niggers.

>>15161693
>right to bear arms is a left-wing concept

In every ancient society people had swords and arrows. This has nothing to do with the left-right divide. People have had arms since much earlier than the French Revolution...

Now free speech comes from the liberal tradition (Milton, Bentham, Mill etc.) which the left nowadays also sees as reactionary, as it denies the welfare state.

>>15161693
Not necessarily - left/right are historically contingent. In the US "bearing arms" or "free speech" are usually exercised in opposition to the left-wing religious establishment. In the Old World the religious establishment was traditionally part of the Right, but it's reversed in the US.

>>15161693
Yes, I know that anon. I was just showing the absurdity of the modern left/right paradigm. I agree eith everything you said about traditional values being lindy

>>15161511
pessoa, valery, and baudelaire were not "right wing"

>>15161730
The US was literally founded by citizens bearing arms in a left wing rebellion against a monarchy

>>15161511

>>15161737
Not the anon, but it was more like elite, nouveau-aristocrats rebelling against a distant monarch to create their own entity, which they overthrew to become more centralized like a decade later, based on traditions of Rome, Greece, and certain parts of the enlightenment. Kind of difficult to assert it was inherently a left wing rebellion, desu

>>15160358

>>15161756
It was similar enough to what happened in France, where the term comes from(the French revolutionaries explicitly mentioned the US), that I don't think it's a stretch. They both basically created republican structures of government in place of monarchies.

>>15161737
That was true in the late 1700s, however, over the years, things changed - "Liberty", is interpreted by leftists as "A pretext for oppressing Black people", "religious freedom" as "A pretext for oppressing LGBTQ folx", "bearing arms as part of my right to self-defense" as "coded white supremacist language", and so on.

>>15161720
>"Liberty", is interpreted by leftists as "A pretext for oppressing Black people", "religious freedom" as "A pretext for oppressing LGBTQ folx", "bearing arms as part of my right to self-defense" as "coded white supremacist language", and so on.

Okay but then the leftists fought to end slavery and segregation so they could finally get the promised liberty so technically they respect more the original constitution than the founders.

>>15161478
>more higher

I see the right as the brake of the vehicle of leftism. The right reacts to the left to stop it veering off course and accelerating to absurdity, it’s almost a social reflex action. If leftists didn’t insist on constant change and upheaval of societal norms the right would not feel the need to oppose such changes. People on the right want culture to remain the same, leftists need constant ‘progress’.
I know that stability ensures survival of the culture, and advancement always comes with the risk of collapse, it’s a trade off that is currently out of sync (leftists are running rampant) which is pushing the right further right than usual.

>>15161807
One of the problems with the idea of Liberty is that it has to come at the expense of SOMEONE. For example, you could argue that owning slaves, not letting blacks into your store, not baking the cake for the gay couple, etc. are a form of liberty, but conversely, blacks, gays, and so on are being denied their liberties as a result.

>>15161839
I mean Im not a Libertarian but they have talked a LOT about what you just said

>>15161860
Maybe, but whose interpretation won out? I don't think it's such a great framework really.

>>15161677
>For sure, and just think about those people coming up with all that great stuff. They were seen as the lowest of the low, had been denigrated for centuries and they didn't have anyone cheering them on. Truly a testament to the importance of tending your own garden even if everyone looks down on you

I should be the same and I should just focus on my passions because i'm really passionate about making art and video games also wanting to get smarter and healthier. i'm going to try tend my own gardens from now on better, this thread has helped me realize how much I was focusing on the negatives of the world and not enough on just trying to be the best me, so I can get to a point in which the world looks more positive than negative.

>Those good feelings that you have for the people you like and the stuff you like doing is what will allow you to grow and rebuild. It stops being a conflict and becomes a game of learning and understanding

hmmm. i'm getting where you are coming from. It's best I write this down, as I often have realizations but then forget them due how distracting life can be from the truth and what matters to a person. do you have any recommendations on how I can further expand my view into one of learning and understanding. Honestly I would rather have a world view were I focus on my passions, and growing as a person more than anything else.

>>15161874
Everybody has a framework that involves liberty as a value to some degree.

>>15161828
Right wingers are based retards that help accelerate our cause

>>15161736
Read Pessoa's political writings. He even defended the slavery of blacks, which nowadays would be considered a very reactionary thesis.

Baudelaire had a very aristocratic outlook, though he wasn't particularly political. Valery was more of a classical liberal, an individualist.

All of those tendencies are considered right-wing by the contemporary left.

Even people who were deemed radicals, or progressives back in the 19th century would be considered reactionary by today's left. Conrad, for instance, is usually deemed a racist and criticized as such.

>>15161807
The fight against slavery was mostly a Christian cause, advanced by the the imperialist British bearing ''the white man's burden'', not really by leftists in any modern sense of the word...
The fight against segregation was, indeed, more associated with the left.

I don't very much care about who respects your Constitution more, as I am not American. The impression I get is that people interpret it as it best suits them, just like Christians do with the Bible.

>>15161987
I know pessoa and he basically became a liberal later on.

>>15160358
You have really never stepped one foot out from under the umbrella of jewish controlled media to see the vast quantity of incredible right wing art?

>>15161882
>so I can get to a point in which the world looks more positive than negative
Sounds like a good idea

>do you have any recommendations on how I can further expand my view into one of learning and understanding.
There's a world of self-help stuff. I've read some books on optimism but I do believe it's fairly individual, some stuff just clicks with you while it might leave other people cold. I can recommend transcendental meditation if you're passionate about art, at least that has helped me. You pick a mantra and try to focus on that, the point being to move your mind into a more calm yet attentive state. Start with 20 minutes each day, do longer if you can. See how it feels after a week or two. David Lynch talks about ideas like fish in a river and that's a good metaphor, when you're in that calm attentive state it's much easier to see which ideas should be given more attention, it becomes like picking fish out of a river

>>15161478

>>15161237
>>15160407
So here is the thread on /his/ >>8480789 for reference.
/his/ has more short back-and-forth, while /lit/ has more informed in-depth responses.

>>15160394
Based rat poster, exactly the rat I was waiting for to reply.

>>15162048
and /lit/'s responses are brain dead retarded

>>15162000
Later on when?

Those pro-slavery writings *are* from later-on. He was already an adult when he wrote them. He was already the Pessoa we know.
Ditto for his writings against universal suffrage.

In fact, left-wingers are starting to gather against him because of it:

http://www.noticiasemportugues.co.uk/texto-diario/mostrar/1340157/intelectuais-africanos-apontam-racismo-em-obra-fernando-pesso

(That article is funny. It even has a ''specialist'' trying to justify Pessoa and say his words were taken out of context. Nah, doesn't look like they were, and even if they were the views expressed about human nature would still be heavily reactionary.)

Also, liberals are not left-wingers. In fact, they were the greatest enemies of left-wingers until populism arrived at the scene. In my country, ''neoliberalismo'' is basically the left's favorite insult.

>>15162030
thanks anon, you have been really nice and kind to me a really appreciate it, thanks also for helping me work through my own thoughts and helping me come to the realization of what i need to do i'm going to look into getting the self help and reading transcendental meditation later today.

i don't know you or where you are but i'm going to send you some good positive karma energy your way, i hope something nice happens to you because of it.

>>15160358
The opposite is probably more accurate. Right wing ideologies create a structure and form that the left slow eats away at until it is completely disintegrated and then the right must start again.

>>15162129
The right wing is largely reactionary, not constructive

>>15162144
You don't know what those words mean.

Threads like these are amazing because they show the fangs coming out on leftists. Usually they gaslight everyone about how the left isn't powerful at all and how they dindu nuffin. Yet here we are with a few dozen posts openly admitting with glee what every political position outside the left knows. In the last month or two there has been a steady influx of /lit/ leftists saying that social justice and identity politics is finished because of the coronavirus, and that we shouldn't take it seriously (yet again downplaying their power). But with threads like these you just know that isn't true. They are never going to stop moving their totalitarian ideology into every facet of your life while DARVO'ing you and pretending that they are up to nothing (and if they do admit they are up to something, they'll switch to "but it's good").

>>15162243
take your meds

>>15162243
take your meds

>>15160369
This is not true and also wouldn't matter if it was

>>15161736
Baudelaire stanned De Maistre you cretin.

imagine living in a literal unironic cyberpunk dystopia and claiming the left has won because you keep seeing brown slave labor on the streets and faggots larping as women on the internet 24/7
lol just lol

>>15160369
Mann, Tolstoy, and Kafka were genuine greats. Xenakis was okay, but the best composers of the 20th century generally had reactionary politics.

The problem with the left is that the culture they are so proud of tends to either be souls garbage made for consumption by the lowest common denominator (Rage Against the Machine and China Mieville are the “artistic” equivalents to Applebee’s and Outback) or soulless academic exercises masquerading as art (Brecht, Joyce, Goddard, anyone with an MFA, etc.). The pride they have is so oddly misplaced. If you really press a leftist to justify cultural contribution of their half of the political spectrum, they’ll break down and admit that art only exists for the most cynical, utilitarian purposes.

>>15163232
You have no idea what you're talking about, Rage Against the Machine? Really?

>>15163206
As far As I’m concerned the left wins in the long run As long as anything resembling leftism or having any leftist traits continues to exist.

>>15163274
Most leftists I talk to are very proud of of their representation in pop music. Many seem to think that their consumption of abrasive popular music seems to make them superior to flyover state residents dining at chain restaurants. I could see why their inclusion may have seemed inappropriate if you don’t engage with leftists outside of the more pretentious corners of the internet. I guess I could have used Orwell, Hemingway, or Gorky instead of you wanted something with a little more merit.

>>15160358
Every ideology is destined to fail.

>>15160358
Define, Right Wing?
Do you mean Monarchism?
Elitism?
Neo-Conservatism?
What is it?

Every left wing revolution ends up with a ring winger on top.

French revolution - Napoleon kills all the revolutionaries.
Weimar revolution - Hitler purges them
October revolution - Stalin purges them.
Maoist revolution - Deng purges them.

Let the left wins, then the right will win.

>>15163206
Go on /pol/ right now, you'll see that its virtually all low IQ schizo posting

>>15160358
Anon, THIS IS A LIT BOARD YOU FUCKING FAGGOT, POST BOOKS OR FUCK OFF

>>15160358
Are you quoting Evola lol. He expressed exactly this and called it pseudo-rightism.

>>15160358
>rightwing and leftwing are ideologies
don't even mean anything most of the time. fabricated tribes for the establishment to manage the populace. but of people who are supposedly rightwing, though they're not dumb enough to call themselves this, i see lots of creation and exploration. of the leftwing, perhaps because it is the biggest tribe and thus the most low effort conformist one, only ever seem to reject, erode, and negate. generally so everything, all authority and production and culture, gets further centralised into the state/corps and eliminates all other forms of existence. this is not conscious but a deep-seated cultural instinct that has somehow been engineered into existence. needless to say, it is the opposite of growth and success, and once it has burned through all material it will and already has lament the state of things and wish for another time (not for that time, only to have material with which to satisfy the instinct of destruction).

>>15160904
Who said anything about 4chan specifically? I'm on a lot of sites. And nothing you said there debunks what I said.

>Foreign psyop

You really want to go there? There's far less evidence for the Russian conspiracy theory than the Zionist. Whose flag do you see both parties proudly displaying, the vodkaniggers or "muh greatest ally"? Who has numerous dual-citizens at all levels of government, media, finance etc? What, Putins grand plan is to convince 4chan to shill for him? Lmao, sure thing redditor.