/lit/ - Literature

Is there anyone around today actively trying to promote Zoroastrianism anymore? It seems like more of a small ethnic religion as it exists today rather than a faith that has any pretensions of universality.

>>15154136
True Zoroaster was fire worship (aka devil worshiper). They were a pagan satanic cult. Monotheist arabs can every right to destroy them

>>15154147
>>>/pol/

>>15154163
Ah yes /pol/. The place where they REALLY love Arabs

>>15154147
You realise that Zoroastrianism is monotheistic right. Paganism literally means anything that isn't monotheistic dickhead

>>15154182
It just means non-Christian religion, or a non-major world religion. People expanded it to just mean non-monotheistic because they found it to be a useful term but didn't like the biased connotations.
But there already is a term for non-monotheistic religions, it's polytheism.

>>15154147
Judaism, Christianity and Islam would be unrecognizable without Zoroastrianism. Virtually their entire moral system is derived from it.

Oh well, I guess that’s what you get for trusting (((Abrahamists)))

>>15154147
You have no idea what you are talking about.

>>15154147
Christianity stole basicly all of its concepts from the Zoroastrianism, slapped it on top of Judaism and went on to take in pagan rituals and festivals.

>>15154147
I thought christcucks said muslims worship a demon called Allah? not their beloved YHWH? so now they're the good guys?

>>15154163
There are just as many christcucks on /lit/ as there are on /pol/.

>>15154147
Christianity got a lot of influence from zoroastrianism. Overall, also I think we would have lot less problems if middle-east was zoroastrian.

>>15153873
reall big waste of time. i literally only read technical manuals ALL literature is a waste of time except technical manuals.

>>15155309

>>15154147
arab dog, fucking kill yourself. nigger of the middle east

>>15153873
>translation
Yawn. Learn Avestan or go home.

>>15154136
The community is deeply split over whether it is even possible to convert to Zoroastrianism, so active proselytization is highly controversial.

>>15154334
>Virtually their entire moral system is derived from it.
>>15155092
>Christianity stole basicly all of its concepts from the Zoroastrianism

These are misconceptions based on Manichaeism.
Zoroastrian thought is not life or wealth negating, the material world is not seen as bad.
They see sickness and mortality as corruptions introduced by Angra Mainyu.
The world is good and man is good and must be purified for a good life right now until the final reckoning when Ahura Mazda and his Yazatas enter battle with Angra Mainyu (who has been given time to get his head right and stop poisoning Ahura Mazda's creation with his envious hate)
Christianity and Islam are all about the next world, and the soul by itself opposed to the body.
There's actually an external soul called the Fravashi and an internal soul in Zoroastrian thought, with the Fravashi being like a Holy Guardian Angel.

So yes, Christians & Islam stole lots of ideas, but slave morality and life-negation come from the kikes not Zarathustra.

>>15156705
That's Parsees in India. Persians in Iran and the diaspora are generally fine with it as long as you're serious and a decent person.

>>15154334
>>15155092
Original sin in particular is Kikeshit.
Zarathustra is clear that man is essentially and originally good, and that Angra Mainyu introduced decay and sickness and vice, not man.
The focus of Mazdayasna is to cultivate the good thought and behavior in order to achieve eudaimonia in THIS world.

>a Zoroastrianism thread but no one mentions my boy Jorjani

>>15156789
It's mostly a Parsi thing but they've shilled it so hard it has spilled over into other Zoroastrian communities, certainly in Iran.

>>15156816
what did he mean by this?

>>15156827
What did he mean by this?

>>15156801
That really dosen't differ from christianity

>>15157061
Yes it does you idiot, haven't you ever heard of the Christian guilt complex?
Because of Original Sin, and we're all sinners who can only be saved by God's Grace Through Jesus Christ?

Well this says that only one dude has guilt, Angra Mainyu, and that you don't (unless you did something bad on your own as a conscious person of your own free will) and that you are not a Sinner and that your salvation from Angra Mainyu's bullshit is to save yourself by doing right and thinking right thought of your own accord for yourself, with Ahura Mazda and the Yazatas as guides and examples.
Just as different as it gets.
Also no Heaven/Hell either.

You absolute fool

>>15157050
Maybe it’s a PKD reference. Jorjani is a big fan and PKD calls the good “gnostic” god Zebra.

>>15157178
>Well this says that only one dude has guilt, Angra Mainyu, and that you don't (unless you did something bad on your own as a conscious person of your own free will) and that you are not a Sinner and that your salvation from Angra Mainyu's bullshit is to save yourself by doing right and thinking right thought of your own accord for yourself, with Ahura Mazda and the Yazatas as guides and examples.
Again, not too different from christianity. Far as I know, only catholics have the problem with guilt and blind obedience.

>>15157400
This is why you can't ever discuss Christianity with Christians. You have no problems at all lying and subverting. Truth is not your goal, only converts and the preservation of Christianity.

>>15157728
To give him some credit, his motives toward you might be charitable. Christianity is basically spiritual Stockholm syndrome, and he is basically being held at gunpoint. If he doesn’t do his best to convert people and be a zealous Christian, both you and him will burn in Hell forever lmao

>>15157728
I'm not even christian, nor am I particularly fond of their subversive ways. Neither am I particularly against christianity either. The thing is the way you described zoroastrianism can be said about christianity as well, and most other religions as well.

>>15157859
I wasn't the one describing it but just a quick read of Christianity will tell you that what the other guy said of Christianity was right. Everyone is weighed down with original sin and therefore no one can achieve salvation on his own. Jesus didn't come to somehow just show people that if they do x then they can do it, if they go to death willingly or whatever. Both The Fall and the sacrifice of Jesus had metaphysical ramifications that transformed the entire universe. With The Fall no one could achieve salvation(except the Jews), and with the sacrifice everyone can achieve salvation BUT only through Jesus.

in Christianity no one anywhere can achieve salvation without the grace and forgiveness of God, both of which are wholly outside of the individual.

So how does one become zoroastrian? is there a ritual or something? is my mother supposed to be persian so I can get accepted?

>>15153873
Based
I want to make a holy crusade to purify this world and wipe out its wicked people and unholy ideas

>>15157948
>So how does one become zoroastrian?
Go marry a zoroastrian. And even then only the liberal Zoroastrian communities will accept you.

>>15158023
oh, so they're basically Jews but they live in the steppe

>>15154136
No. Parsis are completely against conversion and the Iranians and Kurds who are Zoroastrians are mostly edgy ethno-nationalists who dont want their larp to be interrupted by larping americans.

>>15158036
Yes it is an ethnic religion.

>>15158083
then why are some kurds zoroastrian? they're not persian, right?

>>15156705
I thought the Achéménide empire did convert people, why did it become controversial?

>>15158096
kurds are part of the broader category of iranian peoples. persia is just a region in ancient iran

>>15154147
>pagan
they worshipped one god and were the first monotheistic religion
>satanic
satan wasnt invented yet
>cult
it was a national religion more universally accepted than any derivitive of cvckstianity
>fire=devil
sun=fire=life=truth=ahura mazda. save yourself from your evil ways and lying tongue.

>>15157988
t. will to power

>>15158172
> the first monotheistic religion
thats a fucking lie, they weren't monotheistic in the modern sense of the word.

>>15153873
OP,
can we get a rundown on what text to read for it? guidechart?

>>15158184
>worshipped one and only one god
>not monotheistic
thisis... the power of cvckstians. other anon was right. cvckstainity is a bastardization of religon, a godforsaked conglomeration of bits and pieces of whatever other religion was popular in the day. rehashed shit stolen from better people and passed off as your own. your book is lies atop lies. it belongs in the garbage and so do you.

you worship a false idol and a devil.

>>15158096
Kurds are an iranic people.

>>15154147
>fire worship (aka devil worshiper).
TIL the fire bush that talked to Moses was actually Satan.
Suddenly killing all the Egyptian firstborns makes sense.

>>15158209
>the bible itself was the word of satan all along
SAD

>>15157932
>Jesus didn't come to somehow just show people that if they do x then they can do it
I'm pretty sure he did. He brought new covenant to jews, and later to world.

Yes, religions see fallen world. What caused it and how to fix it changes with religions. If in zoroastrian view world is not fallen why does it need healing? Also if divine does not take part in that process, does that mean zoroastrianism isn't religion but a ethical system? When it comes to christian salvation most theologians believe that good pagans are saved, people who did't know him couldn't reject him, unless they broke the laws written in hearts of men.
>>15158184
Far as I understand Ahura Mazda, the one god, has many aspects or personas. Basically one god is one and many. There are same type of beliefs in India.

>>15158365
Not who you're responding too but my understanding is that Zoroastrianism sees humanity as inherently good because it was created by good, and only an evil being would create a fallen world. Humanity can be influenced by an equal and opposite evil though, and whether you take evil actions or not is entirely your own responsibility. The Zoroastrian equivalent of the apocalypse is when their savior figure vanquishes evil from the world.

>>15157948
Or you know, reading the Avesta and following what it says

>>15158023
>>15158036
No.
The Avesta is your guidance to a righteous life

>>15158482
the Iranians made it clear that it's an ethno-religion.

>>15158083
This is a lie, read Avesta

>>15158187
OP here:
>Hymns Of Zoroaster by West (newest translation)
>Inner Fire by Nariman (tl;dr qrd with excerpts from scripture)
>Original Magic by Flowers (occult take with self-initiation and decent summary of Zoroastrian myth & belief)

All on libgen & b-ok

>>15158208
Kurds are an ethnic singularity, like the Basque.

>>15158414
This is correct

>>15158495
Cite your fuckinh sources faggot, or gtfo. A religion for Aryans? Well that's Indo-European so who are we leaving out, niggers, kikes, arabs n spics?
Fuck em

>>15158554
what? Only Iranian peoples can be zoroastrian, what point are you trying to make?

>>15158554
Sorry, kikes includes Arabs. Meant Asians.

But Asians can on occasion be righteous.

>>15158554
>Cite your fuckinh sources
Literally any Zoroastrian community.

>>15158562
CITE SOURCE ON THAT OPPINION.
half the world was Zoroastrian at one point. Mithra cult in Rome even.
Only the Parsees are ethnocentric, and that was because India made them be when they escaped Islam to India.
Read a book, faggot

>>15158581
That's not a source. Show me where it's written, IN THE AVESTA (or anywhere else you liar)

>>15158587
you literally said in your previous post that arabs, kikes, spics and niggers can fuck off. so now they can convert?

>>15158608
Who would want them to?

>>15158608
Of course, I'm not quoting the Avestas, that fuck off is my own.
Can YOU cite a source?

>>15158617
for fuck sake, you're confusing. if an arab come to be converted in your community of Zoroastrians wold you accept him?

>>15158414
I won't repeat myself, but there is satan in christian cosmos too, who corrupted humans and the world through temptation.
>>15158562
People look into religions for identity and political reasons. The word aryan was the hint.

>>15158596
>every Zoroastrian is wrong! I've discovered the real Zoroastrianism by reading the english translation of the Avesta here in my Kansas basement

>>15158652
so you're saying Zoroastrians are larping aryans and they want the gene pool clean and so they dont accept converts?

>>15158633
>>15158652
>>15158662
>>15158668
Butterfly with no trip on

>>15158662
They did it with Buddhism and nobody gave a shit, why not bastardize Zoroastrianism too?
You can probably make a killing by selling Zoroastrianism flavoured self-help that pretends to be ancient divine wisdom from the ancient near east

>>15158043
>who dont want their larp to be interrupted by larping americans.
They're a persecuted minority who live in villages that get by solely through subsistence agriculture. Whether they want converts or not is irrelevant, they can't get one because they're one bad harvest away from starvation and the government taking their cattle.

I never get this weird crypto-Islamic thing about Zoroastrians "LARPing". What the fuck does that even mean? How is a Persian practicing the indigenous faith of the Persians "LARPing"? Would it be more authentic for them to pretend that they were 19th century Bedouins in the Arabian desert?

>>15158652
>there is satan in christian cosmos too
In the Christian cosmos satan is not equal to God, he's inferior and God allows him to spread evil. The Zoroastrian equivalent to satan is equal to God, that is why he is able to spread evil. No truly good being would simply allow evil to exist. This isn't even to go into the other points such as original sin that other posters have brought up.

>>15158531
thanks.
>>15158587
can verify there were a lot of different ethnicities all zoroastrain at the time (pre-pisslam). medes, parsians, arabs, even byzantines, and the other smaller ethnic groups, all were zoroastrian and lived in peace. then, one day, the pisslamists attacked.

>>15158751
>The Zoroastrian equivalent to satan is equal to God,
Angra Manyu is infinitely powerful, but Ahura Mazda is infinitely power+1. That's the entire point of "being a Zoroastrian", to help Ahura Mazda win quicker by stacking more onto that +1. Eventually Ahura Mazda will win, but that "eventually" doesn't have to be anytime soon. The idea that eschatology has to be imminent is purely a facet of Christian Apocalypticism.

>No truly good being would simply allow evil to exist.
Right, which is why Ahura Mazda is trying to defeat Angra Manyu.

The quibble here is how something that is infinitely powerful even goes about doing anything. Why should it happen immediately? Why shouldn't it? We can't find anything infinite to look at, so it's a moot point where any answer is just as good as any other.

>>15158772
>different ethnicities
they were all Iranian peoples, You liberal globalist faggot.

>>15158788
/pol/tard american detected
read a book you faggot

>>15158807
how am I american? I'm advocating for the preservation of the iranian people and iranian identity, you on the other hand want them to become mystery meat mutts such as yourself.

>>15158778
The goodness and evilness of these beings is evaluated on the actions they engender in the world. A god who allows evil to exist in the world cannot be inherently good when the alternative is a god that does all he can to vanquish it.

>>15158536
no they aren’t

>>15158788
Many of those people were not Iranian at all, anon. The peoples of the Levant and Anatolia like the Phoenicians and Lydians and later the Romans themselves were factually not Iranian.

>>15158841
Correct, which is why Ahura Mazda is doing all he can to destroy evil, which is why he wins in the end.

You're trying to do this dumb thing where Islam is somehow better than Zoroastrianism because Allah was invented by That Autistic Kid who really like Dragonball Z. I already answered this here:
>>15158778
>The quibble here is how something that is infinitely powerful even goes about doing anything. Why should it happen immediately? Why shouldn't it? We can't find anything infinite to look at, so it's a moot point where any answer is just as good as any other.

>>15158841
if ahura mazda is bad because there's still evil and he's for whatever reason not getting rid of it right now, why is allah/yahweh/whatever good if there's still evil and he's for whatever reason not getting rid of it right now?

>>15158778
>Add finite numbers to infinity in order to make a bigger infinity
And yet you claim Christian theodicies are nonsensical.

>>15158877
>>15158891
Why are you retards responding to me like this, read my posts and the posts I replied to.

>>15158788
>Arabs
>Iranian
lol

>>15158778
God damn are you slow.
Ahura Mazda, being literally Lord Wisdom, gave Angra Mainyu a period to reconsider his bullshit. Read the Avesta and you'd know that's why the Reckoning is on a certain time. It was an ultimatum.

>>15158920
what group/tribe of arabs were zoroastrians? can you name them?

>>15158899
I've done no such thing in this thread or any. This is a well accepted mathematical notion (adding to infinity to make it bigger). We can critique the effects of this, or the background assumptions that lead to this being necessary in the philosophical framework (in this case, I've seen people allege that it is precisely this which leads to the Iranian "Fortress Mentality", but I think it's actually the opposite), of course, but that's not what I'm doing.

>>15158920
could you drop this LARP shit and just become a muslim already? your making your mother sad

thanks

>>15158944
nice try, you're not muslim. you need to improve your larps

>>15158920
Oh, cool, you've read the Avesta? Could you cite the passage in question? 99% of these threads are just schizobable.

>>15158934
Not who you're responding to, but Anatolia, the Levant, and sumeria were not Iranian and mostly Zoroastrian before Alexander. Most of these people would later Arabize, which is who he's probably referring to.

>>15158968
so no actual arabs were zoroastrians.

is Jesus the Saoshyant? he was born of a virgin.

>>15158990
I suppose it depends on what he means by "Arab", the region that the Greeks considered to be Arabia was certainly part of the Persian Empire and would have had Zoroastrians, as was the modern day UAE, which I think most people would consider Arab. Most of Arabia wasn't though. I'd wager that there were more than likely Arab Zoroastrians though.

And even just beyond these facts, it's kind of silly to try and brand Zoroastrianism an "Iranian" religion as if there was some broad identity unifying the Iranian peoples back then. The Achaemenid Persians definitely didn't consider other Iranian peoples, like the Medes, Massagetae, and scythians, to be anymore their own people than the Greeks or Phoenicians.

>>15153873
>>15159026
Zoroastrianism is TOO life affirming for normalfags

>>15153873
>An Afghan so lazy to sacrifice to multiple Gods so he gets rid of them all except for a few
Yeah no

Retroactively refuted by Augustine

>>15158990
Yemen was conquered by the Sassanids and they enforced Zoroastrianism

>>15153873
It’s a neat concept but all these books are just faggot bullshit where they basically make up whatever bullshit they find suitable. There’s not enough surviving texts and it’s mostly just academic pseuds jerking themselves off
t. iranian

>>15158208
>>15158536
Kurds aren’t people, get the fuck out of here with that bullshit

So from what I understand, Zoroastrianism is like Hindiusm in that anyone can follow the teachings but in order to be a part of a most communities you need to be born into it? Like outsiders in Hinduism don't know what part of Brahman they're from and outsiders in Zoroastrianism don't know if they have any ancestors in heaven to guide them?

>>15159863
as an emigrant you are a traitor to your land, and as a mohammedan you are a traitor to your ancestors