/lit/ - Literature

He's a virulent racist rivalling Lovecraft. No doubt he's adored by everyone here.

>>15155574
He's a fucking twat.

>>15155661
Maybe on other boards, it's a Nietzschean circle here though.

>>15155574
Morrissey isn’t based but this is not literature related enough, go away

Undoubtedly the greatest living lyricist, perhaps the best lyricist of all time. One of the books he likes is The Book of Disquiet, as mentioned in an interview.

>>15155661
/ourguy/

>>15155683
Bob Dylan says hold my discography.
And he just dropped 2 new tracks. Go listen to I Contain Multitudes ... it’s better than borissey’s whole catalogue

>>15155661
the first third or so of this book is astonishing

>>15155728
I Contain Multitudes was just a circle jerk about himself. He compared himself to William Blake, Anne Frank and Poe.

Morrissey tier shit.

I fucking love Dylan but I am not taking anything seriously he has released since;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qE6WQmNus

>>15155683
>Undoubtedly the greatest living lyricist
Ooh I haven't anything to wear to go somewhere oooh bicyclesssss
>cryingfeelsman.jshitg

>>15155744
kek at that video
hoenstly getting bowie/cohen final release vibes from these new dylan ones
:( swan song type shit

>>15155772
fuck man, I was literally just thinking the exact thing about Bowie's final music vid...

>>15155728
What are some examples of Dylan songs with good lyrics?

>>15155812
By good do you mean better than Morrissey?

>>15155815
I mean lyrically interesting, poetic even, and which aren't just political.

>>15155818
>and which aren't just political
He isn't Billy Bragg or Christie Moore dude.

Morrissey is a personal hero of mine.

I live in Manchester and I hate this city, the people here are scum. And they all hate Morrissey, every twat at my uni is one of those types that loves The Smiths but takes opportunity to bitch about Morrissey and downplay his contribution to their music.

In reality he's by far the best thing about The Smiths, without Morrissey's genius satirical lyricism all that remains is mildly interested guitar-driven alt rock. It's his voice and his lyrics that makes the music something more. And of course the kind of pseuds in this town take the lyrics at face value and pity themselves to it, rather than a complete ironic pisstake of self-pitying losers.

>>15155818
-When The Ship Comes In
-Tangled Up in Blue
-Idiot Wind
-Most of Blonde on Blonde

All of those, especially the top 2 are lyrically up there with a lot of great writers, hands down.

You have 10,000 years to name a better solo album.

>>15155834
Based. People want to focus on how much of an asshole he became now when in reality, that spotlight on literature and British tradition/culture is what made The Smiths so iconic in the first place.

>>15155848

>>15155834
He is the man that took self-confidence for self evidency and never since let up in its arrogance. Not to mention how that is shown in his below average poetry which is only saved by the music itself, which it must be said is something far apart from poetry, and this pitiful attempt to suggest some "GENIUS" ulterior is nothing more than his ego's requested defence of "muh feels" by YOU, the people; not him.

I don't think he has ever written anything of particular merit in his life, and should honestly be hanged for his failure to somehow troll properly in being a cuck and a faggot and a moron while doing so. Any reference to "le based quote- man!" is nothing but that failure to properly be a something, and only a suggestion which implies more so than anything a suggestion of himself, "Morrissey".


I could only imagine you to be a faggot or a sincere retard.

>>15155839

Like A Rolling Stone
Positively 4th Street
Blowin’ In The Wind
Masters of War
A Hard Rains Gonna Fall
Don’t Think Twice, It’s Alright
I Shall Be Free, No 10
The Times They Are A Changin
Shelter From The Storm
Subterranean Homesick Blues
Mr. Tambourine Man
It’s Alright Ma (I’m Only Bleeding)
Hurricane
Isis
One More Cup of Coffee
World Gone Wrong

the list goes on. anyone w half a brain cell can see their places in history (dylan and morrissey) and it’s not even close. i mean shit is a clinch. even morrissey would concede if he’s not a complete imbecile.

>>15155728
Jewish.

>>15155893
A ton of these are political Phil Ochs-tier songs.

>>15155839
>When The Ship Comes In
I mean it was okay, the quality of presenting an image was quite well, but lets not pretend as if the ability is anywhere near to those "great writers" like Keats or Yeats or Pound.

>>15155834
>In reality he's by far the best thing about The Smiths, without Morrissey's genius satirical lyricism all that remains is mildly interested guitar-driven alt rock.
>hmm I think I will write a deep lyrical song today
>hmmm there is a light... not quite deep enough
>hmmmmmm it never goes out... yesss that's it
>now just sing that line over and over again 100 times or so
Quite the genius.

>>15155893

Funny you would miss one of the very the best, which is Visions of Johanna

>>15155904
Reborn Christian.

>>15155853
How has he become an asshole?

He backs Farage, as the majority of the British public did. He says immigration has caused Britain to be lost, which most native whites probably believe (despite not tweeting about it). Morrissey has always thought for himself, and risked the consequences of saying things which aren't polite and which won't land well with The Guardian.

>>15155893
Lots of these are pretty political. Also where the fuck is Stuck in Memphis?

>>15155918
like i said the list goes on
>>15155912
go listen to nina simone’s cover of the times they are a changin and call me in the morning

>>15155893
>>15155918

Hmmm.. you also missed

It's All Over Now Baby Blue

and

Simple Twist of Fate

and

You Gotta Serve Somebody

and

You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go

hmm why would you skip ALL the good ones

>>15155926
>the majority of the british public backed Farage

>>15155886
His lyrics are genius, whether you are emo or not.

>"Why pamper life's complexities when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat"

That lyric alone is enough to group him with the greats. Look at John Prine who recently died. He is being discussed as one of America's greatest lyricists, but really there is nothing really poetic about his writing although his songs are very good.

>>15155893
>the list goes on. anyone w half a brain cell can see their places in history (dylan and morrissey) and it’s not even close.
Wow you are a fucking idiot.

There has been a major degeneration of all the arts, and the only rise being in a degenerate art itself(cinema). As far as this so called "poetry", there is a reason it was first written for music. It is simple and infers some quote un quote deeper meaning in the text/song and lyrically sounds nice, but as poetry in a pure sense it is nothing more than what one a hundred years ago would have been well aware to know as something only of value sentimentally, arising out of the subjective experience. Not by any means of a poetic merit- the meaning of subjective is of course self explanatory, poetic requires some exterior of interaction or relation.

>>15155934
cuz those are the ones i like and ur comment proves my point he’s got something for everyone. no contest w morrissey it’s laughable

>>15155934
>>15155932
>>15155930

most underrated Dylan song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZhMvLuoMaM

>>15155939
u are cancer and gay

>>15155932
Yikes. Who cares about covers? We're talking about lyrics, not political propaganda or black sistas screaming into a microphone.

>>15155938
>>"Why pamper life's complexities when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat"

>>15155938
>That lyric alone is enough to group him with the greats.
Really??

>>15155947
cringe?

>>15155949
>Who cares about covers? We're talking about lyrics
I mean, exactly.

>>15155949
>>15155961
There is nothing more influential than covers, they are more important than the music.

Morrissey is the virgin and Dylan is the chad.

>>15155942
underappreciated for sure

>>15155967
>>15155942
Patti Smith's cover is better

>>15155949
nina simone... screaming. yea ur lost. go listen to morrissey’s literal superficial whining just because u have the same skin color u literal aping caveman

Typical Bob Dylan song:

>Baby We're Gonna Make It Outta Here

>Oh baby when I saw you lyin' there
>With the pillow covered with your hair
>I felt so bad without money for rent
>And my optimism is all but spent
>But look out you congressmen because there's a tide a-comin
>It's gonna drown you so deep so you better start runnin
>Me and my girl we're gonna laugh so loud
>When we're out there with that crowd
>Pounding on the door to the white man's castle
>Saying hey there joe and jim sorry to hassle
>But we're starving out here and it ain't no fun
>So are you gonna play fair or should I get my gun
>Yeah that's right me and Jamal
>We're gonna be strutting down to Union Hall
>To kick out the vipers and the paid-for-hire
>And we're gonna start us a warm little fire
>Ooooh baby but back in my room
>The sun it's a-risin but it feels like a tomb
>My baby's awake now and asks where I've been
>Nowhere at all babe just dre-a-min
>LIKE A ROLLING STONE

>>15155971
Times They Are A Changin' is a boring, political song with about as much lyricism as Willy Mason's 'Oxygen'

>>15155997
Proof that Dylan beats Morrissey every time.

>>15156011
>political
Oh noes!!! It's not really though.

>>15156011

>>15155886
For a man who's main problem with Morrissey is you feel his arrogance overtakes his station you sure do have incredibly pretentious prose.

The music of The Smiths is nice, but it is not the most interesting thing about them. Good guitarists and good guitar-driven altrock bands are abundant, and were so even in 80s. But it's Morrissey's contributions that are what cement The Smiths into the greats of the era. Not only is he a wonderful vocalist but it's his lyrics that are definitely the most unique thing about their music. It's very interesting how ironic he can be at times but also simultaneously not. With a song like "I Know It's Over", on just music alone there's not much to be seen, but there's a lot to be said about these lyrics.

>I know it's over
>And it never really began
>But in my heart it was so real
>And you even spoke to me, and said :
>"If you're so funny
>Then why are you on your own tonight ?
>And if you're so clever
>Then why are you on your own tonight ?
>If you're so very entertaining
>Then why are you on your own tonight ?
>If you're so very good-looking
>Why do you sleep alone tonight ?
>I know...

This is so over the top to the point of parody that it reads like an /r9k/ shitpost, and Morrissey was definitely one to piss on his own audience. But it's also seemingly very personal, like he's also talking about himself. Tragedy in his lyrics is always absurd, it's equally meant to be pity and mockery. This is why I say Morrissey is successful, he is a very funny man.

The Smiths are a shit band that wrote shitty songs for teenagers and Morrisey is an idiot, a clown and a hack.

>>15156011
Come anon writers and critics, who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide, the chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin

>>15156033
SO it's agreed, Morrissey and Dylan both love pissing all over their audiences.

>>15155916
Nigger that's a lyrically beautiful song, is your problem literally just that it fades out to that lyric?

>And if a double-decker bus crashes into us
>To die by your side is such a heavenly way to die
>And if a ten-tonne truck kills the both of us
>To die by your side, well, the pleasure, the privilege is mine

>>15155938
That’s your idea of a good lyric?
>DONT WORRY ABOUT LIFE JUST CONSOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
What a fucking retard

"The last night of the fair
From a seat on a whirling waltzer
Her skirt ascends for a watching eye
A hideous trait on her mother's side"

If this doesn't make you think and laugh, you don't get it.

>>15155574
he's one based schizo

>>15156054
>He can't see the satire

>>15156050
Yeah, I felt it a bit mean to also point out that the rest of the lyrics are "If big thing hit us we die but it's nice and if bigger thing hit us we still die and it still nice".

Not saying it's a bad song, but it's not the poetry of the lyrics that makes it.

>>15156054
That's not what the lyric means, retard.

He is asking what the point is in wasting his time over-thinking life and its complexities when nobody is sitting beside him in his car (which is why the leather is smooth).

>>15156038
Pleb filtered.

>>15156059
>It wasn't bad it was ironic
Wallace was right about gen X

>>15156065
>filtering anonymous
Pls do.

>>15156068
>Can't see the value in satire, even though some literary movements lean heavily on it to deliver an overarching message.

>>15156054
My bad, you did interpret the lyric properly. But it remains a very clever way of say something, in a way most lyricists wouldn't be capable of doing.

Bob Dylan's version of the same sentiment:

>Oooh what's the use in sitting here thinkin'
>Bout life's mystery when I could at the bar drinkin'

>>15156061
But that's not even the rest of the song tho

https://genius.com/The-smiths-there-is-a-light-that-never-goes-out-lyrics

>>15155886
>t. jpegmafia

>>15156059
>satirising consumerism with an instagram-tier line is enough to be considered among the greats
Kek. None of you actually read poetry.

>>15156092
>Thinking you're the only person who reads poetry

>>15156081
He also goes Ahhhhhhh at that one point, sure. It's nearly all repetition, he even repeatedly says the phrase "I don't care" at one point, I guess only so much rhymes with "anywhere".

A personal Mozza favourite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSOqgUNoimc

>There's a club, if you'd like to go
>You could meet somebody who really loves you
>So you go and you stand on your own, and you leave on your own
>And you go home and you cry and you want to die

How can you guys not see that this is ironic?

>>15156099
Because you too read Morrissey lyrics. Yes pottery.

>>15156092
we’re talking pop lyrics here, not poetry. calm your tits

>>15156106
Imagine relating to those lyrics.

Praise be to Nero's Neptune, the Titanic sails at dawn
Everybody's shouting, "Which side are you on?!"
And Ezra Pound and T.S. Eliot fighting in the captain's tower
While calypso singers laugh at them and fishermen hold flowers
Between the windows of the sea where lovely mermaids flow
And nobody has to think too much about Desolation Row
Yes, I received your letter yesterday, about the time the doorknob broke
When you asked me how I was doing, was that some kind of joke
All these people that you mention, yes, I know them, they're quite lame
I had to rearrange their faces and give them all another name
Right now, I can't read too good, don't send me no more letters no
Not unless you mail them from Desolation Row

>>15156103
Except the entirety of verse 1 and 2, in other words 2/3rds of the song.

>>15156110
People were saying he should be grouped “among the greats” and they used Keats as an example. If you want to say he’s the greatest out of all the shitty pop musicians I have no beef with you.

>>15156117
What's he trying to say? He isn't interested in high-brow poetry?

>>15156120
They're more or less the same.

Take me out tonight
Where there's music and there's people
And they're young and alive
Driving in your car
I never, never want to go home
Because I haven't got one anymore
Take me out tonight
Because I want to see people
And I want to see life
Driving in your car, oh, please don't drop me home
Because it's not my home, it's their home
And I'm welcome no more

Take me out tonight
Take me anywhere, I don't care, I don't care
I don't care
And in the darkened underpass
I thought "Oh God, my chance has come at last"
But then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask
Take me out tonight
Oh, take me anywhere, I don't care, I don't care
I don't care
Driving in your car
I never, never want to go home
Because I haven't got one, la-di-dum, oh, I haven't got one
Oh, oh

Oh no, they both talk about going out at night and driving in a car, exact same verse. You seem to demand such an extreme amount of variation that I can only conclude you think MF Doom is the platonic ideal of poetry. Any kind of repetition, thematic motifs or even the appearance of a chorus is verboten.

>>15156157
Meant for
>>15156143

>>15155661
>racist
non leftard race realist

>>15155812
Blood on the Tracks is the closest album I can think of. Tarantula is shit but his music is good.

>>15156157
It's the exact same twice, again there's a lot of repetition in the verses too.
>Take me out tonight
>Where there's music and there's people
>And they're young and alive
>Driving in your car
>I never, never want to go home
>Because I haven't got one anymore
Aside from everything else, 30 let's be charitable and say "original" words, the rest of the verse is pretty much that copy pasted.

>>15155997
Better than any Smiths song. And I like the Smiths.

>>15156032
>yeah I speak my mind an I AM(!), an INDIVIDUAL
>But nooooooooooooh I'm not a racist guys come on that's baaaad!

>>15156033
When poetry must be inferred from by some implicit of a simple multiple of clear-colour directions and would be laughed at if it were not set to music, it is not very good poetry. The irony may be there, and all the potential complexity that represents, I concede(in theory), but that very basic sense of a said multiplicity does not, prior to what you say, make it very complex or meaningful. Even if the subject were not entirely suited to the small-man and quickly leaving stimulation of an "sad/normie different" emotion, the way in which it says this is lacking even further to continue to so evidently portray what I have said time and time again, that it is entirely made for the base of an music which is in its defining character empty-modern and shallow. If I am to repeat myself once more, the highest its emotion can suggest, is no different than that shallow colour-depth of a modernity of small men being filled with small emotions, what one might even call last-men, in order to fill the absolute emptiness which in truth is so pathetically filled by so small a thing the crushing emptiness which defines modernity should not even be recognised in them, but rather as expressing itself by their visage. And the supposed self-dignity of this man "Morrissey" disgusts me all the more because of this.

>England for the English
what did he mean by this?

Bros... You're doing it all wrong. You're supposed to play the song. Just basing how good it is based on the lyrics is like, reading a play or reading a translation.

>>15156199
>I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving
England is mine, it owes me a living

>>15156106
Because it's silly and a normal person who doesn't listen to sentimental garbage, or "art"(which is representative of a cold and callous egoism present within the collective unconscious today), will immediately see it as that, the stereotypical "oh, okay, well that was a waste of time".

>>15156209
lmfao

>>15156157
https://youtu.be/sMQNH9G5nbI
Gets me thinking of this.

>>15156200
>reading a play
>implying

Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen both shit all over this boring sadboi schlock ... but Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now is alright

>Take me out tonight\Take me out tonight
Same
>Where there's music and there's people/Take me anywhere, I don't care, I don't care, I don't care
Different
>Driving in your car//And in the darkened underpass
Different
>I never, never want to go home/I thought "Oh God, my chance has come at last"
Different
>Because I haven't got one anymore/But then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask
Different
>Take me out tonight\Take me out tonight
Same
>Because I want to see people and I want to see life//Oh, take me anywhere, I don't care, I don't care I don't care
Different
>Driving in your car, oh, please don't drop me home/Driving in your car, I never, never want to go home
Different
>Because it's not my home, it's their home and I'm welcome no more/Because I haven't got one, la-di-dum, oh, I haven't got one oh, oh
Different

Oh look at that, they're not similar at all. They're just poetically connected by the references to driving in a car at night and not going home.

Not to mention you didn't respond to my argument. Do you think the best possible lyrics are where there is absolutely zero repeating words? Is that your barometer for good writing?

>>15155848
Paris 1919
Soul Mining

>>15156157
>Take me out tonight Take me out tonight
>Where there's music and there's people Because I want to see people
>And they're young and alive And I want to see life
>Driving in your car Driving in your car
>I never, never want to go home Oh, please don't drop me home
>Because I haven't got one anymore Because it's not my home, it's their home
>And I'm welcome no more

Also
>I want to see, I want to see
>homehomehomehome

>Take me out tonight Take me anywhere Take me out tonight Oh, take me anywhere,
>I don't care, I don't care I don't care, I don't care I don't care I don't care

I will concede this awkwardly worded and sung bit
>And in the darkened underpass
>I thought "Oh God, my chance has come at last"
>But then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask

But then
>Driving in your car
>I never, never want to go home
>Because I haven't got one, la-di-dum, oh, I haven't got one
>Oh, oh

>>15156231
>Do you think the best possible lyrics are where there is absolutely zero repeating words?
Writing (x2) is generally not a sign of a great lyricist.

>Do you think the best possible lyrics are where there is absolutely zero repeating words?
>>15156261
>>15156266
Well that's a yes then.

Go listen to gimmicky rap music if you never want to hear the same word twice in the same song.

>>15156287
There are more things in heaven and earth Horatio.

>>15156308
ok mr mf doom

>>15155574
nyeh morrissey

>>15155661
>autobiography published by penguin classics
>still alive
A truly based man who spits on the midwit bourgeois

they both share the same self-aggrandizement, self-promotion and narcissism.

wilde at least was witful with it. morissey had some shitty jangle pop band.

>>15156908
The penguin classics only happened because some gen X manager was trying to stick it to his boomer dad.

>>15155661
His racism is pretty basic. He comes across as a "not racist just dont like em" kinda guy what with his fetishiation of ordinary white working class culture(based)

>>15155935
>Brexit was a failure of democracy
>It's too important a decision to leave up to popular opinion
>Most people wanted to remain anyways
With this level of dissonance, it's no wonder contemporary British music sucks.

>>15157190
>Farage=Brexit
How much cum does he make you swallow?

>>15157240
>A founding member of UKIP
>Left the Tories for signing the Treaty on European Union
>Has campaigned on this single issue for 27 years
>Tories only picked up the policy to take votes from Labor
>The voting block for Brexit only agrees on Brexit and has essentially no other shared sphere of policy
>This issue is the only issue Farage has ever campaigned over
>While a registered Tory, he even voted for the greens in '89 over this issue
>Farage is essentially uninvolved in British politics except over the issue of Brexit
>Brexit only exists as a political movement because of Farage
>Farage=/=Brexit
Noise isn't a genre of music

>>15157190
brexit was a triumph of democracy over undemocractic eu. votes on joining the eu were routining in favor on not joining. yet countries kept getting pushed in to the eu and arent allowed to leave.

>>15157321
So it's gallons of spunk you're saying.

>>15157190
imagine basing your whole life around arguing about geographical labels hahaha sad.

>>15156106
Maybe I'm autistic but I don't see the irony. How exactly do you detect the irony here? He sings it pretty sincerely.

>>15158063
based autist.

>>15157978
Imagine basing your whole life around simulated dopamine rewards

>>15158063
Because it's absurd. The image of the unloved incel awkwardly standing around before going home to cringe to death is funny, and it's supposed to be. This kind of irony is typical of Morrissey's lyrics, it's the same kind of spirit of an /r9k/ spaghetti story. Morrissey may very well relate to the figure of the song, but the song is still a mockery of that figure. See elsewhere in the song

>You shut your mouth, how can you say
>I go about things the wrong way?
>I am human and I need to be loved
>Just like everybody else does

It's satirising the incel mentality, just not in the kind of hamfisted "satire" you usually see in lyrics. It's written as sincerely as it would feel for such an incel (like Morrissey presumably when he was younger), but it's still meant to be absurd, because it would feel absurd.

>>15158157
you are fucking lame, keep arguing with people about something you have no real control over loool you are the peasants and serfs of the 21st century.

Fuck off to /mu/.

>>15155772
In these times, it's just common sense to start preparing for the potentially deadly case of Covid.

>>15158232
Maybe if it was about music and not lyrical content being compared against literary content you fucking retard. You think people will actually talk about lyrics there and not just some stupid ass melodies.

>>15158272
What I think? I think you should go back.

>>15158174
And the classist snobbery comes out, as always. You know, the monarchy is alright. I'd rather be a peasant if you and your kind actually had any class. But, if you're going to give the people tripe like the YBA, you also have to give the people a voice of their own. Power isn't a privilege, but a responsibility. If you won't have the responsibility, we'll take back the power.

>>15158298
Class snobbery? I'm working class you retard. I'm just sick of idiots and the constant noise you produce non-stop arguing over something so fucking stupid. What a fucking shit way to spend your life, oh well, more fun for me, have fun you fucking loser.

>>15158319
>more fun for me
How exactly does that work?

>>15158160
It's romantic irony, not classical irony, hence the references to Wilde and Keats.

>>15158319
>you are the peasants and serfs of the 21st century
>I'm working class
A real laborer you are.

>>15158344
middle class wanker

>>15158384
Can someone be called working class who doesn't work? If a man receives tax money in order to do what he pleases, what keeps him from being a Lord?

>>15158160
>The image of the unloved incel awkwardly standing around before going home to cringe to death is funny

I don't think it's funny, it's pretty sad and relatable to a lot of people. I don't see why just because something is pathetic that we shouldn't identify with it unless we're gonna be ironic about it.

If he's mocking anything it's the normie idea of going to a club to get laid, rather than the loser protagonist.

>>15158823
Because everyones either a chad or a cool ass virgin these days, its sooo cooooool to make fun of people who aren't comfortable with who they are

>>15158836
You should probably consider that other people are at least as complicated as you are. If you knew yourself only by a half-heard conversation, would you appear so different? If you demand the benefit of the doubt, you should at least have the decency to give to everyone else first.

He is the quintessential midwit

>>15155834
>Morrissey and downplay his contribution to their music.
He contributed lyrics but Marr was their main song writer. Just look up the credits