/lit/ - Literature

>>15130638
bumb

>>15130638
bump

>>15130638
>phenomena

>>15130638
have you actually ever talked with an incel? Go to incels.co and have your questions answered there by interacting with these people that you're willing to write paragraphs about.

>>15130638
one can argue the drunk high school chad is infinitely more happy because he doesn't ask as many questions and worry about so many things.

The incel phenomenon is slowly bringing back chastity though, and that's a good thing.

>>15130638
They’re hedonists at heart

>>15130638
I'd wager learned helplessness plays a role, at least to some extent. Inexperience as well (most seem to be young) and a narrow world view. Possibly lower IQ?

>>15132165
Implying he wont find self proclaimed incels on here

>>15132165
>incels.co
Not entirely sure how fruitful that would be. Doesn't seem like their's much meaningful conversation going on over their. You wouldn't happen to be able to shed some light on this ideology, would you, tripfag?

>>15132165
their vocabular constists of "its over" and "cope". you cant argue with these people

>>15130638
on average, incels aren't bright and live in a pit of resentment which prevents them from intellectual growth. If they were given another chance at life with a handsome face and a sculpted body, they'd be sticking their dick in every wet hole they could find. Instead, they cope by raging.

>>15130638
Low iq, no education, failed parenting. Many such cases.

houellebecq ofc

>>15132474
But thats only his whatever novel

>>15132360
>>15132384
it's not too radically different from any other forum desu. You have your shitposters who only ever post low effort shit and the autistic nerds who post long-winded and slightly funny schizo ramblings. I recommend lurking there for a day or week.

This recent thread was amusing:
https://incels.co/threads/the-celebration-of-my-ban-is-a-classic-case-of-anti-intellectualism.196054/

A response to that thread:
https://incels.co/threads/giga-high-iq-post-about-anti-intellectuals-here-is-a-bluepilled-opinion-did-i-mention-i-am-giga-high-iq.196351/

>>15132557
>You have your shitposters who only ever post low effort shit and the autistic nerds who post long-winded and slightly funny schizo ramblings. I recommend lurking there for a day or week.
I am in now way going to dig through trash for pennies.

You, however, clearly frequent that dumpster fire. I'm also going to assume you're an incel. An attention starved one at that. What do you believe lies at the core of the incel?

>>15132557
So all these posters are basically virgins?

>>15132834
No. They are incels. Bitter ones at that.

>>15132789
No, I'm not really attention starved. The opposite actually, I have a lot of girls who orbit me, but I ignore them all.
I cannot give an accurate answer to your question. You can only know what lies at the core of an incel by perusing their forum, which you refused. I do however know for certain as someone who frequents both sites, .co has more pennies than 4chan.

>>15132834
Ignore this guy >>15132848
He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. Incels.co is also known as Chads.co due to the fact that many of the users there turn out to be either good looking or sexhavers.

>>15132971
legit curious, how much % of self proclaimed incels on there are virgins?

>>15132952
>No, I'm not really attention starved
Ok, tripfag.

>You can only know what lies at the core of an incel by perusing their forum
Where do you think you are? This isn't twitter, you smooth brained mongoloid.

>>15132971
>He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.
What I said was objectively true. Incel.co is largely inhabited by bitter incels. Not all of which are virgins.

>>15133008
He's not a tripfag, he is a namefag you fucking redditor

>>15132848
Incel = involuntarily celibate
If you’re a virgin and it’s not by choice then you’re an incel
I’ve seen people say things like “incel is a mindset” or “your only incel if you post on incel forums” but the people who say that are just incels who don’t want to admit that they’re incels

>>15133042
I have heard that incel communities are full of fakecels, is it true?

>>15132994
maybe 50%. There are also girls that larp as incels. A famous one got banned a couple months ago

>>15133035
An attention whore none the less.

>>15133042
Incel simply implies that you are involuntarily celibate. Virginity does not come into play. With that being said, OP was referring to the bitter, self defeating type mindset typically associated with incels.

>>15133100
Kinda, fakecels tend to be zoomers who haven't even left high school yet. 99% of them have sex when they turn 20

>>15133135
is there any truecel YouTube channels?

>>15133147
Faceandlms is the best as far as I know

>>15133100
That depends on your definition of fakecel. Everyone seems to have a different definition of the term. Obviously if someone is dating and having sex then they’re fakecel but some people have additional criteria tacked on. For instance I’ve seen some people say that if you’re white then you’re fakecel, if you make a certain amount of money you’re fakecel, if you’re above a certain height you’re fakecel, and so on. Depending on who you ask fakecels could be a small minority, a supermajority, or anywhere in between.

>>15133042
>Incel = involuntarily celibate
Sounds like an oxymoron. All celibacy is voluntary by definition.

>>15133240
>All celibacy is voluntary by definition.
How?

Couldn't you just lurk >>>/r9k/ for that?

>>15130638
Pay attention to the way an incel thinks, or rather reacts and avoids thinking. If you were to suggest they pursue any of these ways of coping they would immediately dismiss your suggestion, never giving it a second thought. There doesn't seem to be any way to get through to them.

>>15133340
That’s dependent on the individual. I’m an incel and I always advocate for incels to find some type of hobby that they can focus their energy towards. There are some people who subscribe to the LDAR style of thinking but I think that LDAR is harmful and typically ends in suicide.

>>15133418
LDAR?

>>15133307
/r9k/ is simp core. incels.co is where he needs to lurk.

>>15133462
Lay Down And Rot
There are some incels who think that, since getting love and sex is impossible, you should be a NEET who does nothing all day but browse the internet. I don’t advocate for this because, as I mentioned in my post, it almost inevitably ends in suicide.

>>15133307
>>15133470 is simply here to shill incels.co. You'd have better luck simply reading an introductory psych text book. The incel "plight" is nothing more than learned helplessness. It isn't complicated.

>>15130638
>i might have an edge to be normal looking and have experienced sex, love and affection in my youth to realise that the high aint sustainable like everything and i feel better on celibacy and semen retention
Imagine that you grew up without those formative experiences. Every day you then spent without sex (or love) wouldn't be a step on your path to spiritual enlightenment, but proof of your incompatibility with the world and your failure as a man. If you're a guy who's never had sex and never fallen in love, then no matter how hard you try to convince yourself "maybe it's all for the best", every time you see someone mocked for being a loser virgin, be it on the internet, in media, or in real life, you'll have to confront the fact that you are not undertaking a journey of self-restraint, but a loser helpless before fate. The key part of Shakyamuni's story is that he voluntarily chose to cast off worldly desires and seek enlightenment. We don't call famine victims sages.
>so you cant actually blame them? how can one help them then?
The key is this: I'd wager that a very good amount of self-proclaimed incels are far from hopeless. The horrible beauty of that community is that it provides its members with a million ready-made excuses to avoid facing the knowledge that change is possible, if not difficult. I'm speaking from personal experience here, as embarrassing as it is to admit. If you're not white, it's over. If you're too short, it's over. If you have narrow shoulders, it's over. Even if you meet all the other standards, you can always say that your face is subpar and absolve yourself of any responsibility that way.
But there are some people out there who are simply far too ugly to ever obtain sex, let alone meaningful romantic relationships. I've met a good few in real life; their physiognomy tells their story the instant you meet them. Ironically, many of these people abhor the incel community. I suppose that it's their final coping mechanism: "no matter how low I am on the totem pole, I at least have the moral character to avoid the tarpit of incel self-identification". And for these people, coping is the only option. Losing sight of your problems by devoting yourself to your hobbies, your platonic relationships, your own attempts at spiritual growth (as you suggested). But always looms a specter that whispers in your ear: "You have missed out and you are missing out."
So then, what about the others, the salvageable ones? Regardless of whether their goal is to live a life of romantic fulfillment as an end in and of itself or as a means to spiritual fulfillment, the path before them is difficult. Even if their problem isn't their looks, but factors within their control like their (lack of) confidence or (lack of) charisma, said factors can't be changed easily. It takes countless failures, heaps of shame, and ages of work. (1/2)

>>15130638
>>15133571
And then there's the everpresent problem of self-identification nagging at them. "Am I a normal person who merely suffers from a lack of confidence? Or am I a socially inept loser who has to fix himself before he has the right to have a positive self-image?" Often, these problems are intertwined. It's a vicious cycle: underconfidence leads to failure in social situations which breeds more underconfidence. The only way to escape is to simply will yourself to be confident no matter what, to break out of the cycle. But this is a highly non-trivial feat. Confidence is supposed to be built on success; here, the goal is to manufacture a synthetic, imitation confidence. So the salvageable incel is always asking himself: "Will I eventually deserve this confidence? Or am I yet another instance of the Chris-chan archetype: the man so far gone that he, completely disconnected from reality, has earned the deserved scorn of the world?"
The solution? Having small moments of external validation that one can use to fuel the confidence manufacturing process is key. You could probably tell that this post reeks of "my diary desu"; indeed, it was through these little bits of external validation that I was able to escape into a (relatively) normal life. But the worse off one is to begin with, the fewer the number of these necessary moments. It, like everything else, is a feedback loop. The closer one is to being unsalvageable, the more astronomical the quantity of willpower necessary to escape it. But it must be done, if it can. It's either that or die.
(2/2)

>>15133516
Strange how I'm just telling people to explore things for themselves instead of believing what others tell them. Your dismissal of my efforts comes off as very anti-intellectual. Almost as if you don't want people to find out about an inconvenient truth

>>15133766
You're here to whore yourself out. You've unironically detracted from this conversation. Either share your experience as an incel, as >>15133571 has, posit why you believe incels are incels, or anime post elsewhere.

>>15130638
Intellectualism, spirituality, and asceticism aren’t copes; even Nietzsche addresses this nuance in On the Genealogy of Morals. When they’re “copes,” they’re ressentiment. Spirituality also wouldn’t help an escape from sensuality, they’d have to marry it to a higher consciousness.

>>15130638
simple answer that others have already said: they're not smart enough
they are literally losers in every sense of the term

>>15130638
>can somebody explain to me why incels dont cope with intellectualism, spirituality and ascetism?
Because modern societies, and the american one in particular, emphasize sexual prowess a lot more than those of the past, while viewing any kind of intellectualism as a form of coping. This means that people who don't fit the standard feel a shame (I use this term to indicate the vast galaxy of negative sentiments that all pariahs experience) which has a deep effect on their persona and their development. Add to this the fact that modern culture is permeated by the most retarded and puerile type of scientism that we have ever seen since the scientific revolution (which means that these people can rationalize their learned helplessness, as other anons more informed than me have called it, into some sort of genetic determinism), that personal standards are extremely unrealistic thanks to mass media and that the modern conception of masculinity views asking help from others as inherently unmanly (while capitalism and globalization erode traditional networks of mutual help), that traditional male spaces have been eroded and you get a society in which the factors that produce pariahs are also those that determine their irremiedable marginalization.

>>15133240
that's the joke
the term was originally a fucking joke a lesbian made

>>15130638
An incel isn't distraught simply because he thinks he's missing out on a particularly good orgasm, he is so because both society and millions of years of Darwinian selection have planted the idea in his mind since his conception that sexual validation received from the opposite sex is the sum measurement of a man's worth. Access to sex, therefore, becomes the sole barometer for his perceived viability in all areas of social life. It's fundemantally a self-esteem issue, it's not just coomerism.

They aren't entirely wrong either. Although imperfect, "can I get laid" is a good heuristic for evaluating if one meets the minimum standard of what would constitute a functional social creature. If you can't get laid, it's an implicit judgment that you've been deemed unfit to pass on your genes, and that means there probably IS something deeply wrong with you.

>>15130638
>an enlightened tibetian monk
Attempting to reconcile an incel with a practice ascetic is absurd. Incels by definition identify themselves with their sexual frustration and resentment. That is why they are involuntary celibates. Emphasis on "involuntary". The incel is a failed hedonist, compelled by and commanded by stifled libido. If he rose above that he would not identify as an incel. The ascetic renounces their sexual desire because they believe that it is a hinderance to higher understanding and liberation.

>>15133571
>>15133669
10/10 post

>>15133669
>The only way to escape is to simply will yourself to be confident no matter what, to break out of the cycle
I've said this before. The most common piece of advice given to incels is that you need to be confident when speaking to girls but the people giving that advice underestimate just how difficult that can be. Confidence is built through success. You become confident over time as you set out to accomplish things and succeed. This success reinforces the idea in your mind that you can accomplish what you set out to do which is essentially what confidence is. But if, for your entire life, you've experienced nothing but failure when it comes to women then how are you supposed to be confident? When every single experience you've ever had resulted in failure the only way you could possibly be confident is if you chose to completely ignore reality and just imagine that you're significantly more capable then you actually are. For people who are narcissistic this is second nature but for most people this is rather difficult if not outright impossible.

>>15133944
>simple answer that others have already said: they're not smart enough
>they are literally losers in every sense of the term

>>15133571
>>15133669
The only intelligent anon in this thread turns out to be the only person with personal experience regarding incels kek

>>15133571
> The key part of Shakyamuni's story is that he voluntarily chose to cast off worldly desires and seek enlightenment.

Wide off the mark. There is no religion, buddhism included, that preaches "first attain worldly success, then you can practice spirituality". But it is true that it is harder to transcend when you're being led around by your desires (though you will note most people are, it's not incel specific). As Brad Blanton says, most people spend their lives in perpetual adolescence. Moving past FOMO and socio-sexual competition is a task for everyone.

There is a state in which your anxieties, insecurities, and even suffering, become a joke to yourself. Incels should be seeking that state.

>>15133669
>it was through these little bits of external validation that I was able to escape into a (relatively) normal life
me too, agreed

>>15134231
Well will you racists realize that you're not welcome here?

I was a neet virgin 23 year old in 2012, back then it was fucking hardcore to be a virgin. I didn't have any kind of community, incel wasn't even a word back then, I was truly isolated. And I crawled out of it and now fuck women regularly, I bend them over and rip down their panties with the rage I built up from those dark days.

Virgins these days have it easy, soon it'll be 'weird' to be the one having sex, while the incels are the majority.

>>15130638
>why do they wallow in misery? what do they gain from it?
The evolved subconscious desire to receive pity doesn't translate well to the abstraction of online text. Some part of them still hopes that someone will come along embodying the eternal feminine and provide them the opportunity for radical love and shared happiness.

>>15132217
no
>>15132191
imagine wanting intimacy and connection, damn hedonists

OP look up how many species have higher male variability for reproductive success. you will find when males have the smaller gametes, the females are always less likely to end up not reproducing. that's all it is in the end, useless bloviating aside: an evolutionary reality wherein the sex with less investment in reproduction has to compete harder to be a part of the next generation, resulting in fewer members of that sex reproducing. we don't have twice as many female ancestors as male just because "men in the past were too self pitying!!!"

>>15135414
What explains this sudden rise in male celibacy? I've always brushed off the incel phenomenon before. I just thought these kinds of men have always existed throughout history in regular quantities, only now the internets has given them communities and a megaphone, but recent data doesn't seem to support that assumption at all. The rates of young men who simply aren't getting laid have been skyrocketing in resent years.

Why is this occurring now?

>>15135727
>imagine wanting intimacy and connection, damn hedonists
I think he's implying they're just shallow cumbrains who want to sleep around like Chad.

>>15135746
Online dating has given women access to a far greater pool of potential mates. In the past men only had to compete with the other men that a woman knew personally. Thanks to online dating you now have to compete with all of the men in a 50 mile radius.
Now all women can interact with and have sex with the top 20% of men. Because of this women's standards increase and it becomes harder and harder for average men to get any attention from women. This is why you sometimes see guys that are average looking participating in incel communities.

>>15135808
I can only imagine how bad it's going to get since most women still haven't fully integrated into the online dating scene, and still tend to date men primarily from an established, IRL social sphere. That's changing very rabidly, as more and more of these interactions are moved online.

>>15132384
sounds a lot like /fit/ desu

>>15135808
I would've died a virgin if it weren't for online dating

>>15132390
Elliot Rodger proved that looks and appearance literally don't matter if you've got the personality and mentality of an incel. Their problems are essentially an aversion to therapy and self-improvement, involving themselves with toxic shitholes that just make sure they never grow out of it, a gigantic entitlement complex, and almost always a huge serving of "this is incredibly unattractive" misogyny. Their problem isn't the way they look, and it never was. The problem is that they choose to be pathetic and shitty, and nobody who isn't also pathetic and shitty wants to be involved with that.

>>15135808
[citation needed]

>>15132474
atomised too. the incel starts getting some in middle age but not until he's jacked off in front of some little girls

>>15137423
You actually don't need citations and 'peer reviewed' studies for every little observation of the world. Lacking some piece of writing you can cling to as a security blanket, so you don't have to grabble with trying to understand the world without a Wikipedophile fact checking every thought you have, doesn't make an obvious truth wrong.

>>15137423
What would be your explanation for the spike in male celibacy?

>>15135808
is there no such thing as arrange marriage in west?

>>15132971
>sexhaver
Sounds lika badly translated wotd lmao

>>15132185
*abstinence

>>15133119
No not none the less you fucking nigger you ask some retarded shit then want to argue with a dude pointing you towards answers

Where can I find more pixel art looped images like the OP?

>>15130638
>can somebody explain to me why incels dont cope with intellectualism, spirituality and ascetism?

"incels" are by definition horny niggas who can't get any. A dark skinned black ass ascetic nigga who meditates and retains semen for prajna augmentation is a volcel, who are the most powerful race by far btw

>>15134530
>Wide off the mark. There is no religion, buddhism included, that preaches "first attain worldly success, then you can practice spirituality".
That's true but I think the point is being honest about how much power your decisions have. Just as the poster said, when a person that's in a famine decides to swear off food, how valid is that decision when they had no access to food anyway?
I think the issue is that the way to evaluate the power of a decision is to evaluate the impact that decision has had on your life. By this then, we can see that the person in the famine that swears off food would've starved anyway and so, this is a powerless and thus worthless decision. This decision is not what defined their life, what defined it was their circumstances.

I think it's very admirable that St. Thomas Aquinas was born into nobility but rejected those riches to give himself more purely to God.
I think it's, at best unimpressive and at worst, a coping mechanism when a man, undesired by women, "chooses" celibacy.

incels are more resilient than most people. Lockdown has shown this, as normies are going into full meltdown over a couple of weeks of isolation, when incels have to endure that as the norm for years, decades ect

>>15132384
yep and 'coom', sounds a lot like here.

>>15137398
elliot has an extremely small penis, he could never get over it
you think he could just BEE himself and magically solve all his problems but he couldn't
some people are just never going to find love and will live solitary lives, that's the way it's always been
the problem today is people growing up to believe they can all have the media-sponsored (((perfect life))) which revolves around consuming and finding love through consumption
spirituality is dead and that's how solitary people were able to find themselves in the past, because there's nothing wrong with living by yourself, we're just conditioned to think otherwise because it makes us consume more

>>15130638

Most "incels" are just failed normies 99% of the time. That's their real problem.

>>15139012
it's only a coping mechanism if you cling on to your perceived failures
you see it as a coping mechanism because you see external validation as something that needs to be attained, but the objective here is precisely renouncing those thoughts and perceive them for what they are
you still aren't thinking outside your ego
you can be a poor person and renounce money without it being a coping mechanism, if you truly understand what wealth really is to you

>>15130638
actual incel here

I've tried to make the most of my life; I workout regularly, I have a decent condo, a beautiful car, a good paying job and I'm highly thought of among my colleagues who often seek me out to bullshit and sometimes even confide

despite all my effort I still feel like shit whenever something reminds me of my lack of companionship - it could be seeing a couple on the street, a co-worker talking about a girl or just overhearing something on the radio

as such I wouldn't say I wallow in misery as much as misery wallows in me

only a few weeks ago a co-worker came up behind me, grabbed my shoulders and rubbed them for maybe 5-seconds
as fucked as it sounds those 5-seconds felt better than any fap I've ever had

I even dreamt about it a few days ago, that's how impactful it was

no amount of spirituality or intellectualism can change that

>>15130638
You think like a retard.

>>15139266
why do you think you can't be with women, as in what do you think about every time you feel like trying?
are you ugly, extremely small dick, fat?

>>15139323
>why do you think you can't be with women.. are you ugly, extremely small dick, fat?
I am rather ugly, yes.. but my dick is normal, perhaps even on the larger side and I am in no way fat - in fact I'm very fit
I believe my ugliness to be responsible for my lack of experience with females
>what do you think about every time you feel like trying?
these days I don't think about it and I don't try
gave up at 22, I am 25 today
even imagining being with a female is difficult these days

>>15139381
I have the opposite problem, I'm rather good looking but my dick is quite literally handicapped, I struggle to even call it a dick because I can't do with it what normal men can do with a normal dick
so it's really sad to be casually around people and constantly having that thought in my mind that whatever I do to attract a woman's attention or seducing them is quite literally useless because I can't do anything with it
it's alright though, there are so many people who are happy with worse problems, and so many who are unhappy with lesser problems, it's all a matter of accepting and changing your perspective
the problem though for me isn't that I'm without a woman, it's that I don't have a choice in it

>>15133669
Good posts. To add to this, the closest to a solution is akin to those koan riddles of buddhism. Vulgarly speaking, you have to jailbreak your mind. Validation from outside seems like a reasonable possibility for an individual trying to live in a society but your mind is going to sound the alarm at all times when you're not getting that validation. At some point you either have to kill yourself or realize that the warning alarms were just that, defense software in your brain that simply didn't help you enough for whatever reason. It might have been too overbearing, it might've been useless paired with whatever other skills you happened to be born with. Removing this software will still feel like a sort of suicide, since you'll be killing off parts of yourself which you at some point identified yourself with. That suicide also comes with the understanding that you're basically a ship of Theseus which is another challenge in itself to wrestle with.

>>15139476
based, the real challenge is learning to overcome your limitations and the chains you place upon yourself
it's not easy but the first step is thinking about it, and realize you are the only person in charge of your happiness, not the external forces or people

>>15135414
I have to agree with this. Maybe it’s because I’m not in hs anymore but no one I interact with seems to care if you’re a virgin or not. Virgin as an insult actually hurt, incel lacks any kind of sting because of how silly it sounds

>>15139423
sucks
I guess you could do an enlargement surgery but most guys seem pretty disappointed with their results

>>15139476
>>15139489
>just be yourself bro
People with abysmal self-esteem have nothing to work with, even if they did, they can't trust even themselves

>>15130638
>tfw used to be a nice kid in school, would help people, stick up for those getting bullied, abhorred racism and sexism, had friends and girls like me (even though i never did anything)
>tfw disillusioned as an adult, no friends, khv, growing more cynical and hateful of everything every single day, the sight of a beautiful women makes me feel disgusted and I've enveloped niggers into my vocabulary
>for the first time yesterday i was told that i was a jerk by a young person
>tfw i turned into everything i hated when i was growing up

>>15139556
You have to be yourself, it's not some life-affirming slogan

>>15139550
i've learned to accept it, there are people who have it much worse than me like being blind or being tied to a wheelchair and they live too
it sucks not being able to fully appreciate life but it is what it is

>>15139556
people have low self-esteem because they are waiting for that self-esteem to come from other people
they are reliant on external validation, which is the trait of someone emotionally dependent and stunted, but also someone who is egocentric to an unhealthy level
they should read some philosophy unironically and understand there are more to life than their struggles

Am I an incel because this gay virus is currently stopping me from going out and pursuing connection with females?
It certainly is involuntary.

>>15140213
Been the oppopsite for me, im stuck with my gf and all I want to do is catch up on all the neeting i never got to do so barely have sex

Incel is a result having a disfunctional emotional ecosystem
It's why good looking people can be incel
It is the result of developmental trauma or abuse and isolation as a defence mechanism which results is repressed and underdeveloped emotional systems
They attach their emotional starvation to women, but you can fulfill and grow these systems through other means

>>15140260
how

>>15140269
not that guy but he's right
it's a very introspective process, you need to stop focusing on what you can't achieve and focus your energy on things you can do
you must learn to condition yourself to be able to appreciate the things you can do by yourself and stop depending on external validation
the path to your self-fulfillment starts with you, not other people
you will read what I've just written and you'll think 'how will knowing this allow me to find a woman?' and I'll say that line of reasoning is precisely the problem
stop focusing on other people and learn to appreciate the things you do

>>15140446
I wasn't thinking in how to find a woman, but more on how to trust myself if I decide anything I do is good.

I feel I'm the least qualified person to receive praise from.

>>15140499
>I feel I'm the least qualified person to receive praise from
you don't need to praise yourself, you just need to start believing confidently that your self worth isn't measured by the external validation you receive
in fact you don't need praise from anybody, the 'love yourself' shtick is what they peddle to depressed women so they keep buying their books
just understand that what makes you unhappy isn't what external things do to you, but your own judgment of them
if you learn to actively control your judgment you will master your own consciousness and free yourself from external validation

>>15140499
What do your instincts tell you to do?

Personally, my instincts in the past have absolutely told me clearly to do certain things, but I was too much of a coward to do them and have in some ways fucked up my life / reputation as a result. The key is to take a long-term view, study the possible options, and then trust your instincts. Otherwise you'll be wallowing in indecision and reclusiveness hoping something will "come along", which it won't.

>>15140557
It's true, that makes much more sense. I'm reading stoicism now and even though I don't click with many things, I agree that I'm actually making judgement of things all the time. Maybe even though I said I can't will myself to judge my own stuff as good or worth it, it's pretty clear I'm already judging myself, I'm not at a blank state.

>>15140572
This post really made me think too. There's been barely any time where my instincts told me anything. In fact anytime I want to do anything, there's this reflex that gives any kind of excuse to not do it. I don't think that's my instinct, but instead it's something else that keeps shutting my instinct off. Maybe. Maybe that's the reason I hardly feel like I really want to do or be something. Even if I feel really excited, this thing is a constant brake, from self-sabotaging to making me feel like things are pointless, or out of reach and I shouldn't care.

How do I know if something comes from my instinct? How can I trust it? I don't know what to trust.

>>15140260
>>15140446
>>15140557
this is complete bullshit and has nothing to do with inceldom

inceldom is the result of globalisation and de-regulation of the sexual market place
the Pareto principle is as true for the economy as it is for the sexual market place

the problem is:

in the economy average Joe doesn't suffer to the point of wanting to commit suicide because Jeff invented some new gadget, on the contrary, Joe's life is improved by Jeff's invention so the inequality is justified by the universal rise in standard of living that it brings

meanwhile,

in the sexual market place Joe suffers to the point of wanting to commit suicide because Jeff is fucking 10 women at the same time, making them unavailable for Joe, who's standard of living substantially lowered by the extreme opulence of Jeff's life without there being any rise in universal standard of living


also it's been scientifically established that the drop in IQ's seen among whites in the West since 1978 is largely due to dysgenic mating choices on part of women - making Jeff's actions even more disastrous

>>15140827
To add to this, it's also the result of increasing societal atomization. The average young adult in America today has one friend. Having romantic relationships requires a certain level of interpersonal skills, and young men just aren't developing those skills.

There is less and less place for forming actual human relationships. The internet plays a large role, as it easier to spend days in front of a screen then it is to actually interact with others, but the evisceration of real-world communities also plays a major role.

The rise of suburbia plays is huge (as they are the antithesis of organic human communities) but even 70 years ago during their genesis, they still harbored civil societies that made it easy to build communities. Now, they are empty husks, places to sleep in between work, littered with strip-malls. There are no local book clubs, youth groups, or churches. Even sports, which played a major role in socializing young people, and provided a healthy space to challenge oneself and form meaningful relationships, have become more exclusive with an increased focus on super specialization.

The lack of easy avenues for building proper social skills and the proliferation of the internet, which removes any incentive to search for such spaces leads to a generation of socially stunted people. Online dating exacerbates this problem, as socially stunted women can still get laid, while men in the same boat cannot.

>>15141137
are there any good books that can teach you social skills and how to be funny/charming?

>>15139160
>perceived failures
But they're not merely perceived. They are in fact, very real, unimagined and concrete. If you have no success with women, it is an undeniable part of your experience of reality.
>you see it as a coping mechanism because you see external validation as something that needs to be attained
Firstly, seeing this as a coping mechanism is simply a possible perspective for me.
Secondly, no, I just think that to believe that when one, undesired by women, "chooses" to live without them, he is outright denying the reality of his situation. I think there are genuinely men out there who are undesired by women and also sincerely do not desire them so this has nothing to do with believing that external validation is a necessity. It comes down to being honest about the reality of your situation. I think, if a man is undesired by women and he wishes to pursue a life of intellectual and religious pursuits then by all means, go ahead but just understand that you are not the one doing the rejecting. You are making lemonade with the lemons you have been given, adapting to and thriving in the circumstances you've been placed in. Ironically, it's precisely because I'm thinking without my ego that I'm able to perceive the situation so accurately.
>you can be a poor person and renounce money without it being a coping mechanism
I agree with this point, it's just that my opinion on the undesirable men will vary on a case-to-case basis.
I just want to point out the issue with this money-sex equivalence you've highlighted.
When a poor man renounces money, I imagine he's simply renouncing hedonism and the pursuit of things he deems unnecessary such as the hedonistic pursuits of drugs, parties and social status symbols. This is somewhat normal. A man can be mentally well-adjusted and renounce such things. When an undesirable man renounces women though (or vice-versa, an undesirable woman renounces men e.g. Emma Watson being 30, single, unmarried and self-reportedly "self-partnered"), as I do not believe a well-adjusted man would disregard having intimacy with a life companion (not without religion), I suspect the man is in denial.
Money isn't an intrinsic good whereas a loving relationship is. That's the difference.

>>15141241
I don't think so. As disheartening as this advice is, I think it can only be done through practice. How to Win Friends and Influence People is kind of a meme, but it has some decent fundamentals that can help.

There are two things that have helped me. One is to ask people questions and actually listen to their responses. People can tell if you're not actually interested in what they have to say and that will turn them off. This ties in with not thinking you're superior to others. This is another major downside of the internet, which is that it can breed feelings of superiority. Terms like NPC and normie and roastie all inform a worldview that is not conducive to forming relationships with other people.

The other part is to be interesting. You can't just listen and ask questions, but when you participate you have to have something interesting to say. Consuming media (whether that be movies, anime, books, or videogames) does not make you an interesting person, and sadly that is what the majority of young people spend all of their time doing. Hobbies are very important. Gardening is a good one (women like plants) but anything creative is good.

Of course, all of this is useless unless you have a place to actually interact with people, but this is where hobbies are useful. You can find communities of people who share similar interests online and then meet up. This is by far the hardest part, but also most important. For example, I've gotten into growing culinary mushrooms and joined my state's mycological society. I now have a space where I can talk to people and we can go out and do things together. Sorry if this sounds cliche, but it is what works.

>>15139601
Seeing happy young women does make me somewhat angry, though as long as I can recognize it and laugh at my reaction, I think it's fine.

>>15141241
> 'social skills' is being funny and charming
Holy cow, kill yourself.

>>15141241
As far as I've seen it's much better to get friends or acquaintances and get help from them.

If you become friends with girls, they may give shitty advice BUT you will learn tons anyways, and they'll be willing to take you to social situations, help you dress better and groom yourself properly.

I've managed to get some good friends. The guy always wants me to be the best I can be and stop being a cynical shit. The girl wants me to dress better and better my craft so she can show me off to her girlfriends.

I know it sounds stupid and silly but getting people to care about you (this is surprisingly easy) and ask them for help is the best advice I can give. It's what helped me.

>>15130638

In my experience, the incels of the 2000s were materialist atheist pseudo-intellectuals who privileged science and liberal democracy over religious conservatism and non-rational thought, but the incels of the 2010s are esoteric mystic-fascists who drape themselves in the aesthetics of premodern cultures, promote Ancient Aliens-type narratives about the Earth, and cultivate their bodies while decrying intellectualism as a Jew deception. Honestly I like them better now.

>>15141412
>(this is surprisingly easy)
Forgot to say: this is achieved by being interested at what people say, asking good questions, sharing with them, and not being an asshole. Of course avoid people who are not interested, but most people are kinda lonely.

>>15130638
Social conditioning. They've been raised in a culture that's told them they're inferior losers if they don't have sex and party. Tibetan monks are raised in a culture that tells them being an ascetic monk is good. Of course some people are more independent of this whether due to individual traits or being conditioned by some smaller subculture (fundamentalist christians).

>>15141241
no, this isn't something a technical manual can fix
you see the performance of someone being charming and funny, but that is an end result of a greater process
think deeper than what the appearance is and ask, what is generating this behavior?

>>15141463

Being charming and funny isn't performance for successful people, it comes naturally to them. The people you call "Chads" are not struggling over how to talk to a clerk or tell a joke in a social situation, they function naturally.

The realization that it doesn't come naturally to you is the great trigger. You spend the rest of your life working out, dressing "better", reading self-help books and taking conceptual "pills" in an attempt to become like them, without realizing that all that effort is simply further confirmation of your inadequacy.

The tools you are working with are fundamentally different. You won't be happy until you accept and embrace the fact that you're not like them and never will be.

>>15141383
>>15141412
>>15141463
why would social skills only be acquirable through real world social interactions?

surely a book should be able to capture, break down and define what is necessary for good social interactions or at least provide a simple how-to-guide with questions and other stuff you can use

also, went through How to Win Friends and Influence People and it was basically just "how not to be an absolute asshole, the book"

>>15141397
I will
currently waiting for the local pistol club to open up again so that I can get a gun and shoot myself
don't want to hang myself, hate the feeling of not being able to breathe

>>15141137
>>15140827
Imagine missing the point this hard.
The sexual marketplace has only changed insofar as women who are on the lower to middle end of the scale themselves don't necessarily have to settle for the next better male for financial support. Of course that has massive effects, some of which you have described correctly but the reasons for these changes aren't from "globalization".

>>15141500
This is a needlessly dark take, almost as if it was heresy for a filthy pleb to chase the demigod Chad ideal. Do accept what you lack, do accept you are imperfect, your brain and mind included, but don't erect such high walls between yourself and the successful.

>>15141628

The entire pleb-Chad dichotomy is idiotic and fatalistic. It's based on the idea that "I am not Chad and therefore I am unhappy". Instead of aspiring to be someone completely different (impossible) it's better to accept your own gifts and shortcomings and find happiness within them. Chasing the Chad results in middle life crises, college-aged suicides, and opportunistic sexual predators.

Phenomena? It’s been around forever. My uncle was an autistic incel who played regular NES all day and collected ninja turtle and he-man action figure and ninja stars from the flea market in the late 80s.

>>15141696
Yeah but people back then didn't seem as insecure and depressed about being a loser

>>15141711

Maybe you just didn't get to read their innermost thoughts online on a daily basis.

>>15141724
Or maybe the internet gave them FOMO

>>15141738

The internet gave everyone FOMO

>>15141614
Are you saying that the destruction of communities and the removal of avenues for socialization is the result of the changes to the sexual marketplace? Because that is retarded

>>15141748
Yeah but incels who have literally nothing get it a lot worse

>>15130638
Read The Ring of The Nibelung

>>15141349
you still haven't thought outside your ego because you see things from a competitive perspective
I see your point though but there's no point in arguing any further because we're seeing different perspectives, it takes a tremendous amount of self-introspection to go beyond your own self-perceived limitations

Incel "theory" is based largely around loose fitting economic analogies so to grasp it you'd start with a general understanding of the causality of social inequalities.

The dimensions of sexual inequality are far simpler, under this interpretation there exists only one "good" (looks or sexual desirability) and certain absolute advantage conferred to those who possess it. Ours is a certain winner-take-all hypercapitalized sexual landscape that has become "deregulated" by women's sexual liberation, causing them to behave in naturally unequal ways by favoring the absolute advantage of the most attractive men. Where previously proscriptions against fornication sought to artificially restrict this imbalance from happening.

The idea of a sexual marketplace is somewhat misleading because there are no means of exchange by which to price in the value of each trade. The accounting is done through the instinctive evaluation of a person's looks and status. "Sexual capital" however is greatly amplified by social media, creating a means for the attractive to "industrialize" their sexual appeal , further accelerating the inequality between them and the unfavored.

There are interesting parallels here, where the absolute advantage of given market participants are enhanced by technology just as in the economic sphere. Having a large instagram following for being attractive surely leads to other benefits as well. It's in the nature of the attention economy to exploit what people tend to attend to such as sex appeal, mean the rich get richer and the poorer get poorer : the attractive appreciate through boosted attention, while the unattractive depreciate and are effectively removed from play.

What technology has done is made it painfully obvious to those who can't compete how much society blindly rewards looks. It used to not be paraded out in the open, but technology preys on people's innate biases and weaknesses and so highlights the differences.

Perhaps these two trends toward inequality are related by lager general principle.

>>15141756

I'm not agreeing with the person you quoted, but Houellebecq said that the application of capitalist free-market principles to sexual exchanges would result in the creation of sexual "fat cats" and "paupers". Considering the amount of people who pay good money for pictures of girls' feet online, I think there's something to this idea.

Is Aziz Ansari an incel folk hero?

>>15141918
I agree with Houellebecq, and I do think the commodification of relationships has serious ramifications, but it works in conjunction with other things. Women's sexual liberation is not the sole cause of inceldom, (though it plays a major role) and pretending like it is removes any chance of men escaping from perpetual isolation.

>>15141949
I wish this was real

The problem with incels is that a man’s receiving of and receptivity to positive attention from same-age and slightly senior (a few years older) females of high (but still comparable) socio-sexual rank is unbelievably important for the allocation of resources to secondary sexual characteistics and socio-sexual, psycho-sexually driven networking or sociality. If a person sees little attention and is not presented opportunities they will not develop a sexual consciousness or will repress this consciousness. The only explanation for bizarre and dysfunctional sexuality among 90% of those who exhibit them is inadequate attention and receptivity at a young age from their peers and older cohorts of similar age and development. Your sisters friends telling you you are cute, being smiled at in class, being asked to hangout at the lake by friends who bring girls, having girls send you love notes and want your attention when you’re 10-15 has a massive positive impact on self image and ability to cope with reality. Those who are denied this will not develop physically or sexually the same as those who are given it. Inceldom starts with being ignored, being kept at a distance and falling behind developmental milestones which the public no longer tracks adequately (first look, first kiss, first touch, first cuddle, first sexual touch, first penetration, first sexual encounter, first sex marathon, first domination). You cannot give back someone’s formative years and there is no amount of coaching that will restore someone’s youth and chance to develop properly.

>>15142561
>first sex marathon, first domination
I'm missing these

It isn't a phenomena you brainlet

>>15142561
>tfw I hit all those "developmental milestones" and I'm still a self loathing NEET fuck up
I know this isn't what you want to hear but sex isn't going to be the thing that cures you.

>>15142764
>I'm still a self loathing NEET fuck up
doesnt mean you could always feel worse. im the same as you with massive anxiety and ocd issues, if i didnt hit those milestones i could be dead by now. i dont know.