/lit/ - Literature

>>15120625
I am not interested in reading any such thing because though I acknowledge that liberalism has lost its status as the preminent global ideology and will surely not return to dominance in my lifetime, I must admit, with a confounding mix of shame and misplaced pride, that I am a liberal humanist and will be till I die.

>>15120658
nice blog

>>15120625
>preferably not cringe from Arktos
why?

>>15120658
kill yourself

>>15120781
That's the plan. You can read about it more on my blog. I don't actually have a blog, so just make sure to subscribed to 4chan.org/lit/

>>15120758
because they'll publish absolutely anyone as long as you express right-wing authoritarian views meaning the quality overall is low, plus they aren't even competent enough to proofread the books so theres a million typos in all of them

>>15120625
it hasn't failed. libertarian types and retarded nazi types are failing. liberalism can't be blamed for the abundance of non-liberals who are the problems.

>>15120625
Never liked takes like Deneen's really. Catholic thinkers almost always have a form of tunnel vision where everything they disapprove of is individualism or deviation from authority. But the things they deride as "individualism" are essentially commands from authority, and no, "coercion to freedom" isn't a real concept, it's a sign you're making an incorrect interpretation.

Here's a simple example of this, modern Catholic-Right thinkers often deride declining sexual morality as a consequence of individualism and consent-based morality. But what if you want to consent to marriage with a 16-year old girl? Well, you're a predator. But if you're an actual pedo attracted to little boys, well, that's actually called a Minor Attracted Person sweetie, don't be judgemental. Also, don't question the fact that Mohammed can marry an 8 year old, that's Islamophobic.

The point here is that at least in America the stuff they're attacking is really just a generalization/extension of Civil Rights. But none of these types are ever going to attack the sacred cow of the postwar order. If anything they'd be calling white people the real racists for imposing liberalism on Communities of Color or something like that.

>>15120625
Read The Decline of the West

>>15120969
>But if you're an actual pedo attracted to little boys, well, that's actually called a Minor Attracted Person sweetie, don't be judgemental.

This has literally 0 mainstream acceptance.

Death of the Liberal Class - Chris Hedges (most of his work probably qualifies)

>>15121614
>>15120969
Reddit spacing. gfto

>>15120625
Not everything Arktos puts out is bad.
Evola, Maurras and Stephen Flowers are pretty good.

>>15120625
I'm interested in this too.
I remember people mentioning that there was a book that was pretty similar to Why Liberalism Failed.

>>15120969
I don't think you have read Deneen

>>15120625
There will always be critics of freedom, and they will always be worthless.

>>15120969
If there is a path forward for the right, it involves a deepening of the avant garde shock tactics the alt right could only hint at, a direct confrontation with the left and the forces of the managerial state, its time to talk openly about cultural marxism, to force the enemy to entrench itself in its own absurdity to the point the normal white person out in the street is able to take a stand.

>>15121749
You clearly have not read the book.

>>15121750
Yes, the 00's right lost the Cultural War due to their passivity and fear of offending.

Byung-Chul Han's work in general is about tracing the failures of liberalism, particularly Foucault's latent neoliberal optimism.

>>15121750
>cultural marxism
fuck off

>>15120625
This is one of the few books that I've seen both the left and right enjoy.

>>15121855
>>15121855
I like the term 'cultural marxism' because it pisses all of the right people off. 'radical' leftists are merely the enforcers and useful idiots for managerial liberalism and globalism. At best they are liberals but more so, doubling down on the self hatred, slave morality and mental illness. When we win, don't forget these people want you broke, dead your children raped and they think its all pretty funny.

>>15121921
>radical' leftists are merely the enforcers and useful idiots for managerial liberalism and globalism
Radial left-wing movements are capital's only serious enemy. Are you fucking stupid?

>>15121947
They are such a serious enemy that large corporations help them enforce their views and spend millions helping their causes.

>>15121947
Low IQ

>>15121992
>that large corporations help them enforce their views and spend millions helping their causes
>still doesn't know the difference between Liberalism and Leftism
No company exists in the world today that is actively attempting to destroy class and the profit-motive. Neoliberal faux-progressivism is interested in quelling baseline class conflict by shifting all class critiques to identity politics and virtue signaling.

>>15121947
leftists are universally upper middle class LARPers chasing cultural capital, they don't even want to win, they have a barely hidden contempt for the working class for the undereducated and underqualified rubes what they really want tenure or a cushy post as HR managers or gender advertising consultants. At least, the old elites had a sense of noblesse oblige, at least they patronized the arts and were familiar with the cultural cannon our leftist elites are sanctimonious hypocrites devoid of redeeming characteristics

>>15122034
>leftists are universally upper middle class LARPers chasing cultural capital
Yeah, and that's why real left-wing activity is about creating dual-power through community organization and unionization. Twitter lefties don't mean shit.

>>15121947
Blind as a bat.

>>15120625
Why leftshills keep shilling communism on this board every day

>>15121855
Byung is pretty based, I wish /lit/ talked more about him.

>>15122029

Welcome to 2020.
Identity politics is the left now. The old left is dead and got replaced by that.
The new left hates the working class and only sees it as "people that we only need because of their votes".

>>15122029
'anti idpol' leftists are even more delusional than the trannies. It's like they don't even realise we live in a post industrial society, in which conflicts can only center around identity and culture.

>>15121947
He thinks your run on the mill, Twitter lefty is a radical, you might as well be talking to a rock

>>15122034
>At least, the old elites had a sense of noblesse oblige, at least they patronized the arts and were familiar with the cultural cannon our leftist elites are sanctimonious hypocrites devoid of redeeming characteristics
Agree 100%. They also didn't promote unhealthy lifestyles to the poor (like our elites promote drugs, promiscuity, etc)

>>15122046
let's not kid ourselves, in practice, the function of leftists is to help capitalism dissolve what little is left of community ties and organic culture, to help the corporations grind us all down into a homogenous mass of pink hair consumer sludge.

>>15122079
Yeah totally. I wish translations came out faster.

>>15122087
>Identity politics is the left now
If you only exist online, sure. If you actually look into organization today, you'd see that there's an increasing return to older style of left-wing politics. Hell, look into the mass organization of rent strikes occurring currently. 2019 had the most mass protests recorded in recent times. I for the record don't think protests do shit, but they reflect a rising tide of explicit class conflict and provide spaces to properly organize.

>>15122114
>the function of leftists is to help capitalism dissolve what little is left of community ties and organic culture
Lol no. The left is the only entity that helps organize anti-gentrification efforts. The dissolution of community has far more to do with the privatization and destruction of publicly and/or locally owned spaces.

>>15122142
Anon, you have no idea... The idpol left is doing to you what the libertarians did to the right from the 1980's to the early 2010's.

>>15122194
The "idpol left" doesn't engage in these spaces. They're not the ones organizing. I don't care that they're the loudest online. "Culture War" discourse is meaningless and only affects the appearance of consumer capital. I'm interested in who's actually attempting to change the underlying material conditions. That's what the left is about, and that's the only standard I'm interesting in measuring.
People who argue non-points like "lol capitalism actually love the left" are braindead anyway who haven't read a lick of theory in their life.

>what the libertarians did to the right from the 1980's to the early 2010'
You mean when the right came to dominate politics? Great.

>>15120658
>liberal humanist
Oxymoron.

>>15122217
The idpol left has the media, the academy, large corporations, powerful NGOs and the Democratic Paty. What do you have?

And the libertarians destroyed the right.

Your best choice if you care about the working class is to ally with the post-liberal right.

>>15120969
I read your post three times and I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

>>15122243
>The idpol left has the media, the academy, large corporations, powerful NGOs and the Democratic Paty. What do you have?
Class warfare and a still functioning mass politics. It's only going to increase when the economy collapses

>Your best choice if you care about the working class is to ally with the post-liberal right.
Lol no. The post-liberal right have no organizational power and their interests are fundamentally opposing. Not to mention that they're also complete tools in all of this.

>>15121921
Imagine being this clueless and retarded.

>>15122243
Correct. The best voice of class consciousness in America today is... Tucker Carlson

>>15122087
>>15122089
You are a literal retard with zero understanding of basic political vocabulary.

>>15122114
How the fuck do they do that? By opposing all the things you just mentioned? You seem to be confusing left and right.

>>15122267
You are delusional. Class warfare is not a thing anymore. Mass politics is now a fight between the idpol left and the nationalist right.

>>15120625
Undoing the Demos by Wendy Brown

>>15122280
I made that post while half-asleep, sorry - my point was that while post-liberal critics, especially Catholic ones, often often bemoan alleged "liberal individualism", but in practice, there are a lot of things that most Individuals are not allowed to do without censure by the rest of the community. However, some victim groups are allowed to engage in the exact same behaviors without being shamed. Thus, I think critics of "liberal individualism" are missing the point, and mistake a desire to protect victims as "individualism".

>>15122243
There's no such thing as "the idpol left", dumbshit. To be left means to oppose ruling class institutions like corporations, news media, etc. Read a book some time.

>>15122280
>>15122295
>>15122315
Welcome to 2020. What means to be a leftist changed, my dear anon.
Just like to be a rightist meant to be a monarchist in the French Revolution and to be a libertarian in the early 00s.

Right now, picture related is the left.

Applies more to the European context but you should give pic related a try. This article sums up some points of the book
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2020/03/why-i-am-not-a-liberal

>>15122316
>Class warfare is not a thing anymore
Lol. Class Warfare is embedded into the structure of capital. Class warfare is always occurring. It's just not explicit. Every austerity measure, every privatization, every eviction, every war budget, every tax is class warfare. It's a matter of getting the working class to fight back, primarily through unionization and striking.

>Mass politics is now a fight between the idpol left and the nationalist right.
And neither is winning because neither give a shit about nor understand how class functions. You've fallen for neoliberal politics, sorry.

>>15122316
>Class warfare is not a thing anymore.
You can't be fucking serious. Class warfare is the *only* thing going on right now.

>>15122335
Shit bait, kid. The left is still the left, and the neolibs are still the neolibs.

>>15122342
It works so well that they have all the power while you have none. You don't even have university student newspapers anymore.

>>15120849
don't do it bro, you're gonna die anyway

>>15122359
Things changed. You are just refusing to see the reality.

>>15122369
Shit doesn't get organized overnight, especially after how neoliberalism completely gutted the working class over the last 40 years. I don't expect fast results buddy.

It's the only real opposition that exists to neoliberalism and capitalism today. And it's slowly growing again after almost half a century of stagnation, splitting, and sabotage.

>y-you don't even have student newspapers!
Lol. There's an amazing wild cat strike that's happening in the UCs right this moment. Student unionization has been growing pretty steadily.

>>15122316
>now a fight between the idpol left and the nationalist right
Congratulations on being a useful idiot for Capital, chump. You're swallowing the corporate media narrative hook line and sinker.

>>15122385
Nothing has changed. You're just a sucker for liberal propaganda.

>>15120625
What does it mean to fail?
What is the goal of a political ideology?

>>15122396
>Look, there's a promising student movement at the UCs right now...
Not this shit again

>>15122419
>not even students are on your side!
>meanwhile students are organizing

>>15120658
Well, liberal progressivism is the dominant ideology in the western world today, at least among the corporate/academic/financial/media elite. That's essentially liberal humanism.

>>15122396
You are not powerful. You are just a fringe group.

>>15122402
In november, America will have a national election. Will Trump, the representative of the nationalist right, compete against Biden and the Democratic Party or will he compete against some Marxist Party?

>>15121727
evola is overrated as shit, and the reason why rightwing people are obsessed with half-baked occultism

>>15122431
>You are not powerful. You are just a fringe group.
>says the online reactionary with no organizational power

>>15122427
Nothing good has ever come out of a student movement.

>>15122416
Yes, it has. You are the monarchists of the left. You may posture and pretend you are all powerful and the true left. But you are weak and just a fringe group.

Trump and the Republicans don't care about you. Their rivals, the people who can really threaten them are the Democrats with their identity politics. They are the new left.
Again, welcome to 2020. The world has changed.

>>15122444
>what is 1968

>>15122431
If you think Trump is a nationalist, you are even stupider than I thought.

>>15122454
>Their rivals, the people who can really threaten them are the Democrats with their identity politics. They are the new left.
Democrats and Republicans have the exact same policies. You're retarded

>>15120625
If liberalism failed, why do we live in a globalist capitalist society, aka the manifestation of extreme liberalism?

>>15122454
You are truly delusional. You should spend some time away from /pol/ -- maybe even go outside.

>>15122442
Yes. Online reactionaries have no power. In the same way you don't have it.
But the nationalist right has power. They even have the President of the United States.
The idpol left has power. They have the media, the academia, the corporations.

In november, the left will be voting for Biden, the candidate of the Democratic Party. Supported by the media and the large tech firms.

>>15122457
Exactly, nothing good has ever come out of a student movement. Suppression of student movements is a positive good for all governments, from liberal republics to monarchies to Communist states.

>>15122477
Ah, yes, I'm the delusional. Not the poor fool who thinks his fringe group is comparable in power with the Trump Republicans and the idpol Democrats.

>>15122316
>Class warfare is not a thing anymore.

Why would any continue responding to someone who’s clearly braindead?

>>15120658
>I acknowledge that liberalism has lost its status as the preminent global ideology
lol
spend less time in internet echo chambers retard
aut right and cringe left are completely irrelevant in the real world

>>15122454
Trump is perhaps the most liberal president in American history. The tax cuts for the wealthy, slashing of regulations and worker protections, etc. are all beyond anything Reagan would have dreamt up.

>>15122457
Something that didn't bring anything good. The French government should have carpet bombed the protesters.
The cost would be smaller.

>>15122427
Mass politics and left wing mobilization aren't coming back. I don't know if you've been living in a rock for the past ten years, but Bernie Sanders just lost the nomination to Joe "return to normalcy" Biden. Left-populism has had a decade to take advantage of the unique circumstances following the financial crisis and the most they have to show for it is a barely left-wing Spanish government propping up the austerity wing.

Meanwhile right-wing populist governments in Europe and the Americas are challenging the neoliberal paradigm by reconfiguring political programs into a paradigm that stresses economic redistribution and cultural conservatism. Scream and cry all you want, but only right wing politics has been effective in challenging the power of neoliberal capital for the past 10 years.

>>15122470
maybe you should read the book to found out, brainiac. he literally introduces it by saying "liberalism has failed because it succeeded"

>>15122494
Maybe in your head, it is. In real life the political battle is another one.

>>15122493
I never made any claims about power, anon. There really is no organized left in the United States. There are only the two wings of the liberal corporate party - Dems and Repubs. That's the way the ruling class likes it. Divide and conquer over idpol nonsense. You're just another unwitting victim among millions.

>>15122520
>Bernie Sanders just lost the nomination to Joe "return to normalcy" Biden
Sanders was expressing ideas and policies that 2 decades ago would have never gotten him anywhere near being considered a serious candidate. They were still communist bashing in the 80’s. This is in objectively progress jn that regard. He was #2 and had a much greater chance this time around than four years ago against Clinton corp. Biden appeals to Boomers, who are still the largest voting demographic in America. Of course he won. But di you really think it will be the same in 10 years, when more boomers are dead and the silent gen alonng with millenials overtake the goting demographic?

>>15122533
>liberalism has failed because it succeeded
If the book is that retarded, I feel even less inclined to read it.

>>15122535
>In the for-profit media* the political battle is another one

>>15122551
>Of course he won. But di you really think it will be the same in 10 years, when more boomers are dead and the silent gen alonng with millenials overtake the goting demographic?
More or less, most of those younger people will vote for radical liberals

>>15122536
>I never made any claims about power, anon. There really is no organized left in the United States
What we are discussing here is power.
That poor anon believes that "class war leftists" have power. They don't.
The two political powers right now are the "nationalist right" and the "idpol left".

Maybe you think they are both the same thing, but they are the two political powers we have. I would also mention they are not really that similar. They hate the shit out of each other and they desire very different societies.

>>15122551
>He was #2 and had a much greater chance this time around than four years ago against Clinton corp.

LOL. He hemorrhaged support from the very rural and working class areas he said he could win. His supporters are the millennial white gentry and college students in urban centers (when they bother to come out to vote for him).

>>15122520
The "redistribution" is flowing from the middle class to the ruling elite -- as it has been for the past 50 years. You can elect a vulgarian who says taboo things, but don't expect a change in anything that matters -- let alone a reversal of neoliberal hegemony.

Liberalism in America means socialism, apparently.

Liberalism in Europe means libertarianism, apparently.

But people using two different definitions are arguing about the same word.

>>15122558
In the elections, as well.

>>15122520
>but Bernie Sanders just lost the nomination to Joe "return to normalcy" Biden
And it's important that the left ensure that the Sanders movement completely divorce themselves from the democratic party (and ideally electoral politics altogether). The problem on the front is making sure fuckups like DSA don't get in the way with their Social Democratic agenda.

>Left-populism has had a decade to take advantage of the unique circumstances following the financial crisis and the most they have to show for it is a barely left-wing Spanish government propping up the austerity wing.
It's frankly taken a decade for something like the Sanders movement to even exist. Its failure has a lot to do with this unyielding optimism for electoralism and the political media machine doing everything in its power to undermine its minimal gains.
The left has a new opportunity with coronavirus and the incoming depression. Burgeoning mutual aid organizations and rent strikes are a good start, but it needs to further expand into proper dual-power networks.

I don't think, for one, that the left is in a good position right now, but there's certainly more opportunity and promise at the moment then there has been in a decade (if not several decades). Primarily, the left needs to seriously attempt to not replicate the Occupy movement, which was so swiftly co-opted by bourgeois neolibs into complete spectacle. OWS is a great example of the empty co-opting of mass mobilization by liberalism in its complete lacking of class politics. The successive faux alleviation by Obama has a lot to do with its dwindling as well, something that likely won't be the case with the Trump or Biden regime.

>>15121947
ohohohohohoahahhahaHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HE ACTUALLY BELIEVES THIS OH NONONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONON

>>15122582
This, majority of americans are missusing one of the most basic terms in politics

>>15120658
right wing populism and socialism may have gained in strength, but neoliberalism is still the status quo and it will most likely remain so for decades, if not centuries

>>15122569
Then you’re willingly ignoring voting behavior of the younger generations

>>15122574
Yeah, he didn’t win and I didnt think he was going to. Im only pointing out the objective fact that a candidate like Sanders would have never gotten a ticket 2-3 decades ago. And that his run represents an actual leftward move (as in actually left and not just idpol liberalism).

>>15122557
No, anon, you are the retard.
At least read a damn summary of the book, you anti-intellectual idiot.

>>15122582
The liberalism he means encompass both. And Classical Liberalism, as well.

>>15122573
You are fooling yourself if you don't think they are exactly the same thing. The only difference is that the Repubs don't even try to hide their contempt for working people. The Dems at least pander to workers, and try to keep their corruption discreet.

>>15122607
I'm not, they'll vote for whatever radical liberal the DNC puts in front of them.

>>15122604
Hundreds of millions of people can't be "misusing" a word; the definition has at this stage diverged so much from the original that employing it for any serious discussion is an error.

>>15122608
>The liberalism he means encompass bot
How is this possible? They aren't compatible.

>>15122551
Picture related is your future elite, anon.
Idpol is stronger on younger people in the left.

>>15122576
So the Polish welfare scheme for families with children is really just money flowing to the "elites"? Italy's citizen's income isn't disproportionally benefiting the impoverished south? Boris Johnson's axing of his thatcherite aide Sajid Javid for someone who will implement his big spending plans isn't a repudiation of neoliberal austerity? Where are the left's successes?

>>15122593
He's just George McGovern vol. 2, get over yourself

>>15122627
>Hundreds of millions of people can't be "misusing" a word
Amerimutts misuse thousands of standard terms. They have a very inferior public education system.

>>15122608
>At least read a damn summary of the book, you anti-intellectual idiot.
The only anti-intellectual here is the one supporting this trash ahistorical book that can't even get basic concepts right.

>>15122593
Relevant

>>15122607
>Yeah, he didn’t win and I didnt think he was going to. Im only pointing out the objective fact that a candidate like Sanders would have never gotten a ticket 2-3 decades ago. And that his run represents an actual leftward move

And I'm only pointing to the fact that he LOST support that he had in his last run. He did worse than in 2016. That's not progress

>>15122612
They are not the same, anon. The society they want is very different.
The world is not divided solely on "socialists" vs "capitalists". There are other political divisions

>>15122630
Okay, but I literally don’t care about idpol and agree with its baseline assumptions. Racism exists, women shouldn’t be objects and people should fuck whoever they want, im not a resentful gamer that lost his youth playing DOTA. I would gradly pander to idpol if it meant I could also sneak genuine leftist policies like Sanders was doing.

>>15122657
Dems & Reps are exactly the same. One just panders its image towards idpol and the other doesn't. Their economic and foreign policies are identical.

>>15122636
Look at the wealth inequality graphs for these countries. It continues to widen year after year, as per usual.

>>15122643
McGovern is the opposite of Sanders, moron. Sanders is essentially trying to undo what McGovern did to the Democratic party, to bring it back to its labor roots.

>>15122627
>How is this possible? They aren't compatible.
He is not considering only economics.
By liberalism, he means the system for removing obstacles for people to follow their personal desires (no matter if obstacles are tradition, culture, government, money, etc).
Libertarians and American liberals want to promote freedom in this way.

>>15122648
You are hating a book you didn't read and which you didn't even read a summary of.
You are an anti-intellectual idiot.

>>15122675
Obviously that's a problem. But right wing populists are a reaction to that, not the cause of it. They are the only ones implementing redistributionist policies right now and actually moving to help geographical regions that lost out to globalization. Syriza in Greece capitulated to its creditors in Brussels, Podemos in Spain is a joke, Corbyn's labor party got subsumed by the woke left, Bernie Sanders lost support from the working class. Do you see what's happening here?

>>15122673
Economics is not everything, anon.
I would say the overall fight between the new left and the new right is more important than a battle of economics.

>>15122657
Have the IdPol issues that you care so much about improved under Trump? Has he taken care of the trannies and uppity blacks and feminists and soi boys and 'lack of ethics in video game journalism' and all the other culture war issues you incels care so much about? Of course not. The government doesn't control the culture, so voting on the basis of culture is colossally retarded.

>>15122671
I don't know if you noticed that image. The idpol left doesn't give a shit about you or the working class.

>>15122657
America continually shifts between Reps and Dem administrations. This is a fact that both parties are aware of and have accepted. Any actual differences in their vision of society would be impossible with this condition. In fact, the whole purpose of the constitution is to make any radical change in structure very difficult and almost impossible to put in place in a single administration. The only time radical change occurs is during radical times like the depression. Both parties are aware their social policies will last very short and most politicians are corrupts assholes anyway who get rich from accepting lobbyist deals. Just look at the congressmen who sold their stocks right before it all went to shit during corona. Their only difference is who they decide to pander to. It’s all marketing and you can see this clearly fron the radical change the Democratic party took from being the one with outright racists policies during the 50s to being the for-minority rights party. This is change is why Reagan said he felt the party had left their voters behind and why he became a republican. It’s all marketing.

>>15122730
>you incels
It is always nice to see such an example of intellectual honesty. Go fuck yourself.

>>15122648
>the book is ahistorical because i don't get what the title is referring to and refuse to find out
why do you even come to /lit/ if you arent aware of how titles worK?

>>15122745
Not an argument.

People in this thread need to actually read Marx fucking jesus christ. Base - Superstructure means fuckin nothing to you people

>>15122692
But those are two very different (and incompatible) kinds of freedom, achieved in two totally different ways.

Many libertarians vote Republican because they prioritise economic freedom and disagree with tax raises and public services, while almost all American liberals are Democrats.

To be honest I have not read the book but I don't see how you can have an analysis of "liberalism" when two "liberal" ideologies have so little in common.

>>15122731
And what’s your point? That just one example of idpol gone dumb. The people still supporting unions, worker’s rights, affordable education and healthcare, and social security services, etc. are still dems. Republicans would glady do away with all of it if it meant bigger tax cuts for corporations and the rich.

>>15122704
You gave me a summary, didn't you? "Liberalism has failed because it succeeded," which is complete drivel. I don't care what mental gymnastics the author goes through to make that seem remotely sensible.

>>15122692
you must be truly retarded if you think classical liberals/libertarians have a "follow desires no matter the cost" mentality and advocate for the "removal" of tradition and culture

>>15122675
lmao at the right outflanking leftists from the left, proving that the latter care more about cultural liberalism than about the working class

are there any books on the legacy left's ideas about what a society would be like when all the means of production are owned by the workers?
I mean it as a serious discussion, much is said about how to spark the transition but not enough about what would happen after it

Liberalism hasn't failed and anyone who thinks otherwise is coping.

>>15122740
The political game shifted entirely the last few years.
The new right and the 90's/00's right sometimes hate each other more than they hate the left. See the case of Rick Wilson, for example.

And the differences in what kind of society each side wants is very big in how people live.

>>15122792
Imagine being this retarded.

>>15122776
>Many libertarians vote Republican because they prioritise economic freedom and disagree with tax raises and public services, while almost all American liberals are Democrats.
Meanwhile Democrats push the exact same legislation.
Superficial differences in appearance and culture are emphasized by the parties and media in order to disguise their identical underlying agendas. In order to displace class conflict, the media pushes the only important difference as "conservative" vs "progressive"

>>15122795
>left's ideas about what a society would be like when all the means of production are owned by the workers
This is a contentious subject with no real agreement. Cockshott is probably the most recent and biggest theorist to tackle it. But Marx himself says that we can't imagine communism.

>>15122795
basically the same endgame of liberal capitalism: an homogenous mass of sexless, raceless and cultureless, wheelchair bound polyamorous blobs with pink hair

>>15122795
Instead of bailing out corporations this time, let them all go bankrupt. Then restructure with shareholders replaced by the workers in the company as owners.

>>15122778
They care less and less about this, because in their political calculations, getting minority support is a better strategy than getting working class support. And this will continue for a while. The game changed.

>>15122766
I read teen vogue as well, comrade

>>15122855
damn that's awesome

>>15122848
That 'game' started in the 60s. Nothing has fundamentally changed since then.

>>15122809
Oh, what a great argument

Holy fucking shit this thread is dumpster fire. You all don't know anything about ideologies. It looks like bunch freshmen yelling at each with laughable substance. There is no way to have a meaningful discussion on this board.

>>15122883
Learn to read, kiddo.

>>15122848
I don’t get how think this. Even though Sanders didn’t win, he’s whole schtick was affordable healthcare and education. Obama tried healthcare too if you’re old enough to remember, along with the republican backlash. Those things are still fundamentally part of their agenda. Cause like any hood marketing strategy, you cant just focus on one demographic. There aren’t enough minorities in this country for dems to win just based on them.

>>15122292
this but unironically

>>15122776
Both sides have the same objective, that of expanding choice. They just have a different strategy of achieving that.

>>15122791
He had some examples in his book.

>>15122780
lolwut. you made your first retarded claim that "liberalism obviously hasnt failed, so the book is wrong," and when told how the author introduces his argument (how retarded do you have to be to equate that with a summary) by saying that the success of liberalism has spawned repurcussions that outweigh its benefits, you took it in the most smoothbrained literal sense possible in order to avoid understanding. which is pretty damn anti-intellectual, and I'd be shocked if youve ever read anything, ever, andstill remained this dumb

>>15122832
there are better ways to do that, just alter the salary/work laws to make every worker of any big company with stock, either public or private, be allowed to choose to be paid any fraction of his wage through stock, and make any stock holder liable to receive dividends of said company

>>15122905
I don't think he is being ironic.
Tucker Carlson's vision is probably the best one for the working class.

>>15122889
there really isn't. and its impossible to discuss this topic elsewhere, because book forums tend to be progressive circlejerks

>>15122855
he HATE capitalism! like, share and subscribe and view related products!

>>15122906
care to quote one?

>>15122902
They believe that soon this will change. The percentage of the minority population is increasing in some states that are traditionally Republican.
There is a perception among some conservatives that the Dem strategy is that of increasing immigration to increase their support base, as well.

>>15122945
I don't have the book with me right now, but iirc, he quoted Mill and two others (not Smith).

>>15122923
im convinced that Tucker is a crypto-natsoc, just without the racism. he dabs on the capitalist class all the time while still being conservative. I just don't know how palatable his ideology is to demographics other than "alt righters"

>>15122915
>you made your first retarded claim that "liberalism obviously hasnt failed, so the book is wrong,"
What was retarded about that claim when the title says it failed? I read more books written prior to the 20th century than books written in or after that century, so my first reaction isn't to think that the title is a marketing ploy.

>the success of liberalism has spawned repurcussions that outweigh its benefits
Ah, but it hasn't spawned such repercussions, as far as us liberals are concerned. The book is bullshit and I've read enough to know this with only your very small remark about it.

>>15122920
No, that's just more capitalism.

>>15122722
>Economics is not everything, anon.
Ah, an idealist. You could have just said that in the first place instead of dragging us down to your level. You actually think culture(thoughts) define reality.

>>15122984
someone make this into a banner for this board

>>15123009
wrong

>>15122984
>>15123040
kek

>>15122243
>The idpol left has the media, the academy, large corporations, powerful NGOs and the Democratic Paty. What do you have?
Its not cultural marxism or leftist. I know exactly what you are talking about and agree it is a thing but you sound like an idiot. Use more precise terms and try reading a book for once. Its entirely possible express problems with global neoliberal capitalism without conflating it with 4chan conspiracies.

>>15123044
What's the difference between what you propose and the current system of paying workers in cash which they can use to buy stock in their employer if they so desire. Sounds like the same fucking thing.

>>15123040
>go read more books fagt
>already have, that's why I know it's shit
>n-no you haven't ur wrong

>>15123036
Yes.
There is a huge difference between a culture where they promote a wholesome life and traditional families and a culture where they promote drug usage, promiscuity and polyamory.

>>15123063
Which one are we in now? How would you describe Trump's America?

>>15123057
I'm not that anon.
The funny thing about your post is a combination of ignorance of what is being discussed and your arrogance about being ignorant of it.

>>15123055
1. you can't purchase private stock unless you're allowed to
2. unions full of stockholding workers would have actual power besides begging for scraps every other 2 years

>>15123063
>There is a huge difference between a culture where they promote a wholesome life and traditional families and a culture where they promote drug usage, promiscuity and polyamory.
There actually isn't.

>>15123099
Your book is a pile of shit if its conclusion has anything to do with deriding the success of liberalism. It doesn't matter what it means by the term "failure."

>>15123057
>ive read tons of books, thats why i just know this book is bullshit, no i dont need to know any of his arguments to tell
yeah im totally gonna take you seriously with all that 19th century evidence you gave about how liberalism is infallible...oh wait

>>15123052
This is the new left, anon. Things change.
You are acting just like the former "libertarian right" which says that the new Trump right is not a right. They are. And they just defeated the libertarians for the control of the right.

>>15123107
>There actually isn't.
Why do you think so?

>>15123118
I just read that the author is a Catholic so it cements my position even further. Sorry man, but there is no way this shit has anything real to say.

>>15123063
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm

You should actually read Marx so you don't sound like a highschooler when you critique leftists. Traditional families come from traditional societies where the production of daily life is in their immediate environment. Capitalism necessitates the destruction of the family. This was predicted 120 years ago.

>>15123133
They are materially the exact same society, and culturally the former (nuclear family, strict cultural order) historically sparked the latter (explosion of repressed desire, outlet for atomized life)

>>15123122
Trump is as much if not more of a neoliberal than any Bush-era neocon. The only reason certain rightwing media pundits hate Trump is his vulgarity. They are fine with his liberal policies that further enrich the wealthy.

>>15123147
Anon, neither the new left nor the new right is Marxist.
This is as relevant as quoting Mises or Hayek.

>>15122796
Yeah everything is fine

>>15120625
Ideas have Consequences by Weaver

>>15123170
>neither the new left nor the new right is Marxist.
Are you kidding? Marxism hasn't been this popular on the US left since the 1930s.

>>15123170
But Mises and Hayek were wrong.

>>15123160
I wish people would stop using the word neoliberal because nobody seems to know what the hell it is. Neoliberal is not a slur for things you don't like, it has a specific meaning. A neoliberal is a liberal who advocates laissez-faire economics.

Trump has been putting in tariffs and other restrictions on trade while also giving private companies funds to stay in the country. This is not laissez-faire so calling Trump a neoliberal is fucking daft.

>>15123156
History didn't start in 1960.
And ideas matter.

>>15123170
>the new left
you are talking about liberals, they aren't new

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_republicanism#See_also
>Most controversial is the classical republican view of liberty and how, or if, this view differed from that later developed by liberalism. Previously, many scholars accepted the stance of Isaiah Berlin that republicanism was tilted more toward positive liberty rather than the negative liberty characterizing liberalism.[12] In recent years this thesis has been challenged, and Philip Pettit argues that republican liberty is based upon "non-domination" while liberal freedom is based upon "non-interference." Another view is that liberalism views liberty as pre-social while classical republicans saw true liberty as a product of society. Because liberty was an important part of republican thought, many republican thinkers were appropriated by the theory of classical liberalism.

>Classical republicanism became extremely popular in Classicism and during the Enlightenment, playing a central role in the thought of political philosophy since Hobbes, through John Locke, Giambattista Vico, Montesquieu, Rousseau, until Kant. Some historians have seen classical republican ideas influencing early American political thought.

Liberals Liberals Liberals

>>15123186
Not in the part of the left that has power.
Hillary Clinton and Biden are not Marxists.

>>15123207
Neoliberalism means austerity, privatization, deregulation, corporate tax breaks. Trump is champion of all those things.

>>15123160
Trump has a different kind of policy. He wants to restrict trade and to bring industries back to the US.
This is very different from "neoliberal policy".

>>15123227
Yeah okay, dude. Keep being a fucking idiot then.

>>15123224
It's not reached the tipping point quite yet, but it will. And no, I don't believe the Dem party leadership will ever become Marxist. But we're on the brink of a seismic shift from an culture-focus back to a labor-focus.

>>15123248
>reagan wasn't a neoliberal because that means leftist!
>im smart!

>>15123138
it sure does cement your position, as an autist who justifies writing off the arguments about modern society that he has never heard, by pretending to have read a ton of books from more than 100 years ago

>>15123212
This is a "No true Scotsman" thing

>>15123259
>pretending
Coping is a short-term solution to a long-term issue.

>>15121746
The Myth of Liberalism by John Safranek

>>15123236
Trump's haphazard tariff policy is vaporware at best. The USMCA is just NAFTA under a new name. Trump will never do anything to anger the big money on Wall Street.

>>15123258
I didn't say Reagan wasn't a neoliberal, I said Trump wasn't. What the hell is wrong with you?

>>15123187
wrong about what?

>>15123269
No, that's not what the "no true Scotsman" fallacy is.

>>15123255
Unlikely.
Because the Democratic Party is too closely connected with the corporate media and large international corporations.

And the Republicans are starting to shift away from this. They are still pro-corporation due to inertia.

>>15123287
Yes, it is.
You people are basically saying "no, 99% of the leftists are not leftists, we the pure 1% of follow Marxism-Leninism are the true left"

>>15123273
feel free to prove us wrong with a single example you read that makes liberalism infallible.

>>15123278
The big money of Wall Street is supporting the Democrats.

>>15123291
Things will deteriorate to the point where even CEOs start to realize that the current economic order is not sustainable. You can't have 0.01% of the population owning everything, and lending money at usurious rates to the rest of us so we can purchase the products that the corporations employing us are churning out. The arithmetic just doesn't work.

>>15123317
Lmao. Have you been drinking?

>>15123335
Neither of the sides really believe in this, in their hearts

>>15123317
>>15123317
>we
No you idiot. Your definition is wrong.

>>15123279
I'm obviously not talking about Reagan. Your inability to draw the analogy shows you really don't know what you are talking about.

>>15122335
Gervais came from a poor working class family in Reading lmao, he is in no way posh.

>>15123367
You are just the radicals pretending you are the only true ones.

>>15123382
No, I'm trying to discuss post-liberalism and you keep pointing at liberals.

>>15123371
He is a "white mail", so he counts as an oppressor. So are those people working on the chicken processing plant.

>>15123367
You literally said Reagan. I told you exactly what neoliberal means and why Trump is not one and it has nothing to do with neoliberalism being leftist. You're a dumb cunt.

>>15123382
You are literally a retard.

>>15123411
Trump is a classic neoliberal. You simply lack the intellectual wherewithal to resist his populist propaganda.

>>15123412
>No U
See, actually Trump isn't really a rightist. Neither are Republicans. To be a rightist is to support the Monarchy and to adopt the Ancien Regime. Democrats vs Republicans are both two factions of the left fighting against each other.

>>15121921
>When we win
You are going to have to learn to read fist. If you can't even identify your enemy how can you win?

>>15123428
You literally thought "no true Scotsman" is when you don't like the definition of a word. Then you doubled down!

>>15123422
Yeah of course. Tell me the difference between a classical liberal and a neoliberal.

>>15123440
Ah, yeah, oops.
What is the term for when people have super exclusive demands for purity?

>>15123422
>classic neoliberal
Are you intentionally being stupid? You went a little far with this one.

>>15123465
Certainly not 'No true Scotsman'. What you're describing is not even a fallacy.

>>15123278
To be fair, USMCA is more protectionist than NAFTA. Mandating the auto industry to manufacture 80% of its components in north america, mandating the 40-45% of these components to come from countries that pay more than $16 an hour to factory workers, broke the dairy cartel in Canda without any concomitant concessions, etc. It's not perfect, but it is an improvement and shows that Trump and Lighthizer are committed to more than rhetoric

>>15123467
No, that's exactly what he is. Privatization, deregulation, austerity, corporate tax breaks -- it's all there in spades.

>>15123509
There is no term for it?
It is similar to Austrian Economists saying everyone except themselves was a socialist.

>>15123535
>It is similar to Austrian Economists saying everyone except themselves was a socialist.
Do people actually do this or is this just someone you argue against in your head?

>>15123317
>99% of the leftists are not leftists, we the pure 1% of follow Marxism-Leninism are the true left
You do know there are more than a billion marxists between China, India, the middle east, the south pacific, and south america? And 100% of them shit on western "leftists". You do know this now?

>>15123571
They're all hypocrite retards.

>>15123541
Yes.
I have seen Milton Friedman and Ronald Reagan being called socialist by Austrians.

>>15123571
what sort of Leftists are there in the middle east?

>>15123571
I don't know about the other Latin American countries, but there are not many Marxists in Brazil.

>>15123535
As long as the application criteria for the term is clearly stipulated and understood by both parties, there should be no impediment to discussion. It's only a problem when the definition is left vague and is adjusted ad hoc to accommodate every objection.

>>15122627
>Hundreds of millions of people can't be "misusing" a word
A small minority misusing a term doesn't make it any less incorrect.

>>15122906
>Both sides have the same objective
Libertarians want freedom, socialists want equality. Different objectives.
>that of expanding choice
How are socialists expanding choice when they are taking away 50%+ of your income?

>>15122776
>But those are two very different (and incompatible) kinds of freedom, achieved in two totally different ways.
They aren't. The entire western project(liberal, conservative, neoliberal, libertarian) is founded on a liberal humanist conception of human rights of equality under God and trying to make that ideology fit under a secular state. All four are the same retardation.

>>15123212

I don't link these things to try to trick you. If you read history you will understand the distinction. Do you know the difference between negative and positive liberty?

>Jean-Jacques Rousseau's theory of freedom, according to which individual freedom is achieved through participation in the process whereby one's community exercises collective control over its own affairs in accordance with the "general will".[2] Some interpret The Social Contract to suggest that Rousseau believed that liberty was the power of individual citizens to act in the government to bring about changes; this is essentially the power for self-governance and democracy.[citation needed] Rousseau himself said, "the mere impulse to appetite is slavery, while obedience to law we prescribe ourselves is liberty."[3] For Rousseau, the passage from the state of nature to the civil state substitutes justice for instinct gives his actions the morality they had formerly lacked.[4]

>G. F. W. Hegel wrote in his Elements of the Philosophy of Right (in the part in which he introduced the concept of the sphere of abstract right) that "duty is not a restriction on freedom, but only on freedom in the abstract" and that "duty is the attainment of our essence, the winning of positive freedom.[5]

>>15123988
>liberal, conservative, neoliberal, libertarian are all retarded
Okay so tell me what isn't

>>15122817
>But Marx himself says that we can't imagine communism
lmao how convenient

>>15122335
tbf moviebob is a neoliberal shill and woke (and non-woke) leftists hate him

>>15121947
Meanwhile, everyone to the right of William F. Buckley is universally deplatformed when even the most radical progressives are not only permitted within all major institutions of academia, politics, and media, but practically dominate them.

Alright, this thread has gone to shit because of retarded commies trying to police language and word-sense.
My recs are going to mostly have a secular post-liberal statism theme.

You should read the obvious ones and some reactionary writings: Schmitt, Spengler, Carlyle, national epics, Arthurian legends, hard sci-fi, Lovecraft, Tolkien, and etc.

Here are some other ones:
1. Bertrand de Jouvenel - On Power
2. James Gregor - Mussolini's Intellectuals
3. 4. Girard - Scapegoat, Violence and the Sacred
5. Eric Gans - The Origin of Language
6. Filmer - Patriarcha and Other Political Writings
7. Bodin - Six Books of the Commonwealth
8. Bond - Nemesis: The Jouvenelian vs Liberal Model of Human Orders
9. Wierzbicka - Imprisoned in English
10. Siedentop - Inventing the Indiviual
11. MacIntyre - Whose Justice, Which Rationality
12. Josephson-Storm - The Myth of Disenchantment

And other things: a book of exegesis of Marx's economics, so it has been as scrubbed of his liberal-individual core metaphysics as possible.
Read a lot about technology, engineering. Try to also understand technology not in a liberal framework.
Read about newer forms of philosophy of mind and language. Read lots of Hegel, and not in a non-metaphysical gay way.
These should keep you busy and help you develop a good sense to find other things and navigating liberal writings and forming your own conclusions.

For post-liberal religiosity that is not retarded regressive Semitism can be said a lot but that would require another post.

>>15122671
>Racism exists
yes, manufactured racism exists

>>15122766

>>15122605
I don't think so, while inner forces (populism, demographic changes) in the West is unlikely to change the statu quo by themselves I believe China's anti human rights/authoritarian model will gain traction at least in third world countries where chinks have more and more influence and where people still reent the west; this alone could impact western liberal domination, they could also undermine its authority at home like in the EU (with italy, by helping populist parties or pushing alternative platforms, etc...). I have no idea why everyone is obsessed by Russia when the threat is so obvious it hurts

>>15124580
>Marx's economics
leftest detected

>>15124580
lmao what practical knowledge does one gain reading legends and sci fi? looks like you're trying to build a mythology there and not a serious theory
>>15125026
econ. here. Even with its inconsistencies, marxist theory still gives some incredibly insightful takes on capitalism, same with austrians. You should not disregard heterodox economics

>>15124580
>Alright, this thread has gone to shit because of retarded commies trying to police language and word-sense.
That's pretty common

>>15122671
>Okay, but I literally don’t care about idpol and agree with its baseline assumptions. cultural marxism exists,abortion and sodomy should not be held up to the level of sacraments, children should not be offered up for rape by trannies in the name of diversity and progress im not a resentful gamer that lost his youth playing DOTA. I would gradly pander to white nationalism if it meant I could also sneak genuine third positionist policies like Tucker Carlson is doing.

>>15125117
>marxist theory still gives some incredibly insightful takes on capitalism
Your liberal tricks don't work here. Everyone knows reading Marx turns you into a commie.

>>15122292
That is unironically true though. That is painfully fucking true. The white working class is something that has been completely abandoned by the left.

>>15124580
>1. Bertrand de Jouvenel - On Power
Does literally everybody from every political corner like this book? I have never seen anyone criticize it

>>15122636
Panem et Circem

>>15123333
The big money in Wall Street supports everyone. Let's not fool ourselves

Christopher Lasch
Augusto del Noce, The Crisis of Modernity
Paul Piccone
Alasdair Macintyre
Pierre Manent

>>15122034
>leftists are universally upper middle class LARPers
Even in Venezuela or Russia? Or does "universally" mean "in the US"?

>>15122671
Precisely why nobody believes you people when you suggest that liberal progressivism and ,leftism are necissarily separate. You're both pushing in the same direction and towards the same end, the only difference between you is how your priorities are structured.

>>15120625
Theodore Dalyrmple has traveled all over the world (Mozambique, North Korea) and written a string of brilliant pessimistic articles about liberalism, white savior behavior in foreign cultures, and the species in general. You would really like him I think, OP

>>15126592
gentry left-liberalism is a worldwide phenomenon at this point

>>15126592
>Even in Venezuela or Russia?
Yes.

>>15122848
You're acting as though this isn't an effective strategy. As demographics in the US continue to slip into a white minority, and Texas turns permanently blue like California, it will become effectively impossible for the Republican party to win elections without fundamentally altering their platform in a leftward direction. The left has no intention of helping the white working class, they plan on strangling the figurative life out of them through demographic displacement.

>>15124580
>shilling your own book on /lit/

>>15120625
Why? So that you can affirm your beliefs rather than read something new?

>>15122671
>Racism exists
Indisputably, but little can be done to address it. Not only is it a endemic human trait, but it isn't the main problem keeping 'poc' down. The reason Asians and Jews, who are both extremely prosecuted throughout history, are vastly more wealthy than the average white man has to do with their own culture. Proof: certain groups of black people in the US do quite well, such as Caribbeans and Ethiopians. The reason most blacks are poor is because their communities see a kid getting a job at Goldman-Sachs as 'acting white,' while the average Asian or Jew would cheer them on. It's collective self-pity and immensely destructive.
>Women shouldn't be objects
No, but the reason so many of them have abysmal mental health is in no small part due to forcing them into careers they hate. This is a scam. It used to be you could raise a family with single parent income. Now they both have to work. Corporations pay lower wages due to labor pool being larger and say that necessitating both parents to be miserable working is 'empowerment.' Also, studies show that the more similar women behave to men, the less they have in common mentally and the less they get along with each other. Same reason couples where the man is way taller than the woman tend to do much better.
>I would gladly prefer idpol if it meant I could sneak genuine leftist policies...
Nonono you aren't getting it. Idpol is diametrically opposed to leftism and designed for this purpose. It is a tool of elite/corporate power. Examples include feminism in the USA *never* advocating for paid maternity leave, which almost every first world country has. Why? Because it encourages 'oppressive gender roles', no, bullshit, because it's bad for profits. A country should take care of families because they are the fundamental unit of society. Fucking with families for profit is sociopathic and no better than making designer babies with crispr for profit. You know the labour party completely sabotaged Corbyn and the dems sabotaged Bernie. They would rather have Trump & Boris in office than lose control of their party to someone threatening their gravy train. But people are too shortsighted to see this. Their logic doens't go farther than a knee-jerk 'racism is bad right guise?'

>>15127927
*persecuted. goddamnit

How come all the really interesting political stuff on the right-wing these days is almost exclusively Catholic? Not just Deneen, but guys like Adrian Vermeule, and those integralists over at The Josias. Even more mainstream "neo" right-wingers like Sohrab Ahmari are Catholic converts. Even among fringe stuff like The American Sun or the old NRx sphere, the most interesting writers are/were always Catholic, maybe with a few Orthodox thrown in for good measure.

>>15127927
Feminism in the US got astroturfed really hard. Hell it was one of the testbeds for Barnays theory of astroturfing and propaganda.

>>15120658
>liberalism has lost its status as the preminent global ideology and will surely not return to dominance in my lifetime
I wish

>>15122063
Only an illiterate or egoistical maniac would voluntarily choose to be right wing

>>15128021
You don't honestly think that like 40% of the population are illiterate or egotistical maniacs. Be reasonable and try to at least understand why people believe other things.

>>15128034
I do believe that they're illiterate enough to they make a choice by voting -or remain passive- even if it means (knowingly or not) going against their own insterests

>>15123052
I don't care for your pedantry. You damn well know exactly what I and others are referring to when we describe something such as cultural marxism - you admit as much - so why can't we just fucking talk about it instead of getting bogged down in this inane, petulant word-policing? Out of one side of your mouth you claim to understand what we're talking about, but out other you act as though we're seeing ghosts and speaking in conspiratorial terms.

This is why I find leftists so difficult to talk to. You always seem to acting in bad faith, and you make ordinary conversation so much difficult than it has to be.

>>15126513
only smart anon in here

>>15122217
Lmao anon, come on... Yes you're right idpol left is probably irrelevant. But then whats left for true communist left? They're even more unexistent. The democratic party (which is the only "left" relevant in American politics) is basically the republican party: a neoliberal corporation

The only thing that I learn from these threads is that modern "leftists" are the most fucking brain dead and insufferable people alive. None of you accomplish anything, none of you distinguish yourselves from normal progressive liberals. If there's any answer to the "post-liberal" question then leftists are literally the last people to find it.

>>15128437
There really isn't such a thing as the 'left', only supporters of the system and dissidents, trannies larping nu-marxists don't count as dissidents. There's liberalism and anti-liberalism, globalism and regionalism, market power and state power, anti-white 'antiracism' and white advocacy groups. No such thing as 'left' or 'right'.

>>15124580
If you're going to recommend McIntyre, you should include After Virtue as well.

>>15124580
George Grant - Time As History, as well Technology & Empire are books I would add to this list. I haven't read the rest of his work yet.

>>15122243
>idpol left
Your mistake here is that you actually believe that the "idpol left" is a genuine leftist force. It isn't real, they're just progressive liberals, and so are the vast majority of modern leftists. That's one of the reasons why liberalism is "failing"

>>15122402
>>15122494
>>15122350
Nobody gives a fuck about class warfare, I have no idea where you people live but if it's anywhere other than twitter then the world is the same neoliberal wasteland it's always been. The youth's concerns are found in TikTok and not political books about classism. Boomers' concerns are found on FaceBook conservative meme pages.

Any charts or recommendations on reading leftist theory?

I’m especially interested in forming a well-read opinion on the merits of revolution vs reform in bringing about socialism.

>>15121606
While decline is very good, recommending it to everyone is a bad idea. Maybe man and technics first? Interestingly Spengler ends by saying western technology will destroy us while the people of asia use it against us.

>>15128646
>man and technics
garbage

>>15128592
Don't bother, anything after Manifesto is a pie-in-the-sky navel gazing. Lefties are inherently utopian and fail to recognize human shortcomings as the true root of social division and differences, not imaginary class struggle that keeps upsetting them.

>>15120625
Reflections on Violence by Georges Sorel

>>15125117
>lmao what practical knowledge does one gain reading legends and sci fi? looks like you're trying to build a mythology there and not a serious theory
>he is also econ
Shut-up bugman.

>>15124580
Great post. Everyone should listen to this anon.

>>15124580
>>15126381
>Bertrand was the heir of an old family from the French nobility, coming from the Champagne region.
>He was the son of Henri de Jouvenel and Sarah Boas, the daughter of a Jewish industrialist.

>>15127888
>Why? So that you can affirm your beliefs rather than read something new?
Or because he liked the book and wanted something similar.
Why do you make those kinds of comments when people ask recommendation for conservative books but stay sillent when people ask for recommendation for leftist books?
Could you explain?

>>15130072
>Henri de Jouvenel and Sarah Boas, the daughter of a Jewish industrialist.
GOYED

>>15120625

>>15128437
If you like capitalism, you're on the left. Capitalism is antithetical to monarchism. Now try and find me some actual right-wingers today.

>>15120969
Have you spoken to any Catholics or have you just come straight from r/atheism?

Communism was the cancer. Critical
theory the chemo. The chemo has now
destroyed the host, and must be replaced by the 3rd world masses.

This book btfo's liberals, libertarians, commies, free market conservafags. Also read the books from the neoabsolutist poster.

>>15122439
In all of his works which you read, you didn't find anything of value?

>>15122334
t. guy who calls working class people who vote republican "nazis"

>>15121947
Lol, he actually thinks this

Do Marxists believe that human intelligence is measurable and variable between people? Did Marx teach that all peoples in the world would eventually have the same styles of society?

>>15131940
>it kept returning to mysticism which was really tiring. the first chapter of metaphysics of war was ok, but he's constantly trying to tie everything into his weird kali yuga society idea. Meditations on the peak was just weird, the idea of climbing a mountain as spiritual journey is apt but really doesnt need to be a whole bookalthough parts were comfy. I admit I didn't read man among the ruins which may or may not be more straightforward and rational but he seems way to distracted by mysticism and "muh warriorpriest" to be a competent political analyst

>>15132795
oops didnt mean to greentext that

>>15120625
"The Once and Future Liberal: After Identity" by Mark Lilla
"Ship of Fools" by Tucker Carlson