/lit/ - Literature

>>15092635
I once attempted to tell a psychologist that free will didn't exist because everything is a chain reaction reacting to other chain reactions from the very start of the universe.

Don't say that to a psychologist.

>>15092643
Why not?

>>15092635
Yes, it is totally determined. Freedom of action and free will are two myths

>>15092696
>Yes, it is totally determined
how do you know

>>15092740
Find out yourself I can't give it to you

>>15092644
Psychologists, at least the female variety are not intelligent enough for that basic description.

>>15092635
It is both. It is determined as the rules of the universe can only play out in one way, and you have free will insofar as you cannot know this determination.

>inb4 muh quantum randomness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTXTPe3wahc

>>15092767
freedom isn’t ignorance. Freedom is having the ability to do what’s good for you. Who cares about being slaves to causality as long we find happiness?

>>15092767
Is your perception of your processing power equal to your actual processing power?

Is awareness required?

>>15092635
Current scientific models are not deterministic. You still have no free will tho, unless you either a) assume that souls exist, or b) redefine the concept of free will (a la Dennett) or c) accept the objectively correct argument stated in the first part of Kant's Critique of Practical Reason

>>15092791
What did Kant say on Free will?

>>15092644
Self-efficacy, or more generally belief in free will is a huge indicator of psychological health. Basically depressed or just mentally unwell people tend to believe that nothing they do matters or will have an effect

Superpositions in quantom mechanics

Because scientists think humans have to be able to predict things

>>15092790
I believe self-perception is a fantasy, and the "I" is created by the flowing mind and put behind perception as some sort of illusive "self-observer" to create the illusion of stability in identity.

>>15092635
"A man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills."
you are determined by your innate qualities + chain of external causalities
I think there is no room for free will but to refrain the will

>>15092782
>freedom isn’t ignorance.
Correction: your mental model of freedom isn't ignorance.
>Who cares about being slaves to causality as long we find happiness?
Predilection and energy expended on finding happiness is the mark of weariness and degeneracy of the lifeform.

>>15092806
The categorical imperative gives us a practical principle that simply CANNOT be derived in any shape or form from our empirical condition. Acting according to it gives us a chance of having a practical principle and motive that is completely independent from the causal chains of nature, and the motives and desires that stem from them.
Keep in mind, this is still a compatibilist account of free will, in the sense that my free will cannot overcome the laws of nature in the natural world (you could still potentialy predict every movement of my body before I was even born), yet at the same time the principle of my moral actions would simply be unexplainable in a purely natural framework.

Ive certainly done a disservice to the argument, try giving it a read. It's the first chapter in the second critique, it's 30 pages long and you can easily find it online.

>>15092882
Will do! Thanks anon!

>>15092635
Read Conspiracy Against The Human Race by Ligotti then Abolishing Freedom by Ruda.
:)

>>15092851
>Predilection and energy expended on finding happiness is the mark of weariness and degeneracy of the lifeform.
so what’s your goal then? It has to be some form of positive experience: happiness, joy, peace, etc.

>>15092635
Yes. I don't know if it's a good or a bad thing. One one hand, my belief in it is ruining my life, on the other, it lets me not give a shit.

>>15092643
Yeah, psychiatrists are hacks. They don't listen to or think about what you say at all. After our second meeting it devolved into
>how are you?
>fine. same as last time.
>ok.
>was there anything else?
>no, you can leave now unless you have anything you want to talk about.
Of fucking course I don't have anything to say to you, any time I try opening up you punish me by planning another two months of medicine and compulsory meetings and shit, without a trace of even attempted sympathy or comprehension. If I really talked I would be forced into the damn mental institution again.

>>15093091
Not him, but why? None of those things really appeal to me as a goal at all. I admit I have had real issues finding any goal to pursue at all, but a lot of people seem to assume happiness or some variant of it should be the ultimate goal.

>>15092643
>I create abstract map, it's an endless loop I can't escape from, therefore the world is like that
Shame about the probabilities in physics...

>>15092770
Even if parallel worlds exist, and the whole group exists, which one are you inhabiting? Are they entangled, are they akin to the quantum wave function, where a single one is randomly selected at each point of observation?

>>15092791
>You still have no free will tho
You like thinking that because you abuse the language, and would suffer horribly if you were taken to grammar school.

Determinism exists to passivize competing ape populations.

>>15093183
what

>>15092635
It doesn't matter. We cannot move ahead of time, even seeing the future is just viewing it from the speeding train of the moment that will instantly tear through it. In fact it is going right now - 100,000,000,000 years in the future is happening right at this instant, 100,000,000,000 years in the future. Even the future buzzes around behind the future. Nothing can stop it, but its not determined. All you can know is that it must keep moving forwards and backwards and around because that is the nature of it all. As soon as you stop moving about, time stops for you and you cease to exist. But while all that is happening, nothing is really moving at all, its all still, It just is, its just . . ........ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . o o o o O O O 0 O O O O o o o o o o . . . . . . . . . . . . ................... . . .

>>15093091
>so what’s your goal then? It has to be some form of positive experience: happiness, joy, peace, etc.

No it doesn't, that's the dumbest shit I've read today.
Why should there be a goal? Why even pretend there's a self to produce goals and other nonsense?

>>15093177
bruh what in the fuck are you talking about?

>>15093164
Physics is deterministic, brainlet.

>>15092747
oh fuck off

there comes a point where you commit so hard to the edge that you just fall instead, into the abyss of being a stupid fucking loser

like you can have a negative opinion of women who occur outside of anime, sure, and that's almost universal to sexually frustrated/socially alienated people. But the fact that you're even ironically going to frame it as a fact that women cannot even handle the notion of determinism is unbelievably childish, it triggers me in a way that has little to do with anything moral. Determinism is not that fucking enigmatic, and it's anything but advance. What bothers me especially about this sort of thing, as someone who went to school for philosophy, is seeing so much pseud bullshit from philosophically naive people trying to do philosophy. The dominant example of that is the free will/determinism fixation. They all seem to think it's a transcendent insight on their part, consequent of a special intellect, but it's fucking not. It's the most basic, level one bullshit in the general context of philosophy and it's the fastest way to indicate your naivety. I admit I was a part of that for a while, literally when I was in high school, and I got over it fast. There is a determinist "type" - they're fucking DWEEBS. Always. Lispy, smelly, out of touch, ill mannered, eristic, fucking dweebs who justify their incongruence with the world of competent people as those people - including their professors - are not smart enough to understand what they understand. Meanwhile, among all the most celebrated philosophers who were all aware of the distinction, say nothing that is remotely reconcilable with the bullshit you hear from these internet determinists.
At least read some fucking Hume for fuck's sake, and for as long as your parents are paying for your dysfunctional ass to be counseled by professionals, try to restrain your ressentiment against the female trying to help you.

>>15093249

>>15093345
Why reply?

>>15093357
why not? you're posing that question like it has some sort of weight

>>15093189
Apeware, malware, human brain stupid brain. If you believe in freedom you act free, if you believe in determinism and nihilism you're trapped.
The molecules move based on what you perceive to be possible.
>She's going to say no, so I won't ask her out

>>15093306
What is quantum randomness?
>There's totally an infinity of parallel Universes so that determinism remains true!!!

>>15094230
>>There's totally an infinity of parallel Universes so that determinism remains true!!!
yes

>>15093345
Women are inferior

>>15092827
Yeah of course, but what of the rest of it

>>15093177
Maybe? English is not my first language. Tyat said, I still dont get your point

Reality is not so intelligible that we can make pronouncements like that.

>>15093345
t. roastie.
>saying dweeb
>hume
You’re not fooling anyone sweetheart

>>15092635
top left architecture of your image gave me mushroom flashbacks, thanks anon

>>15094261
Oddly enough that only makes the Universe a grand double slit experiment. The Universe that is perceived is like the dot born out of observation.
You want to undermine the world beneath a dogma. Of course, you, and your ego, are the ones 'correct', and every other option is 'wrong', despite all being merely the same blob.