/lit/ - Literature

stop thotposting

leftism typically values the humanities more and dominates modern philosophy

>>15090941
I'm a fashy boi but I consider myself a leftist. Leftisim, in history has always been politics from the underground.

Liberals and Marxist revisionists are NOT leftists and are tools of the establishment.

>>15090941
Why doesn't OP learn English?
Why must we share a board with spics?
Why do spics think they opinion on white politics matter?

>>15090941
Massive, thick, heavy, and far too rough. It was much too big to be called a sword. Indeed, it was like a heap of raw iron.

>>15090941
because the left is typically more educated, and often values intellectualism.

>>15090941
Not correct. As a representative of /lit/, I can inform you that we hate all sort of political identification – glad I could clear that up for you, das man.

>>15090992
>Liberals and Marxist revisionists are NOT leftists and are tools of the establishment.
Correct, they are called neoliberals. Although I'd differentiate idpol leftists (bioleninists if you like) from actual marxists.

>>15090941
Who is this semen demon?

>>15090981
This. Lots of us like learning.

>>15090992
Marxists (statist Marxist-Leninists etc) are kinda righty, but it’s their fashy tendencies that do that.

Because Marx was one of the people who made philosophy most relevant in politics. Hardly any one else who has ever had relevance in the real world has been that autistic about things like materialism vs idealism.

>>15090992
you're not a fascist if you talk like that

>>15090941
must be a formatting thing I guess. I am right handed but still use this board, problem?

The left wing sissy is too scared to talk to people in real life, they know their ramblings would just be laughed at

>>15090992
>>15091086
>>15091120
What the fuck are you niggers talking about. First off, you CANNOT be a leftist and fascist. Fascism is a right specific ideology. You can be an authoritarian and Leftist, but Leftism specifically seeks to break down the hierarchy that systems like Fascism want to prop up. Even communism is quite literally the rejection of Class and money in society. SMDH.

>>15091196
>you can be authoritarian and left
>leftism is about breaking down hierarchy
This is why no one respects you

>>15091196
You might be actually retarded.
Or talking about things you have absolutely no idea about.

>>15091196
The tendency I refer to is authoritarianism.
Haha. They like to say they’re socialists half the time even.

Authoritarianism is the only viable option for any political position, including the left.

>>15091120
>>15091243
butters i think you're one of two anarcho-communists on this board and I'd really like to know from your perspective: how exactly do you think the global stateless society will come to fruition? do you honestly think it's possible without a transitory government or is the aversion towards even a transitory state just a moral superiority thing with ancoms?

>>15091196
Fascism literally only came about because the then Marxist Mussolini realized that revolution has to start from the national level before the international. Fascism is centrist at best.

>>15090941
It's just the large amount of college-going pseuds mid-indoctrination, shitting out their sophomoric first impressions of the larger world around them. Core /lit/ is made up of neets, working class autodidacts, and the mentally ill.

>>15090941
>Why does lefties love this board so much?
Because lefties are pseuds so they feel like they fit in here.

>>15091233
Dumb ass, Leftism requires authoritarianism at first to reach its end goals, equality. I would the call the communist revolutions in both Russia and Cuba authoritarian, but eventually led to greater equality (though neither of these reached a point of true communism which is impossible in the current capitalistic world).
>>15091242
How about you actually discuss what I had to say. You literally lumped Liberals and Leftists into the same category you fucking mong. Any leftist worth their bread would spit on you if you called them a Liberal, you dumbass fucking liberal. Also WTF is a bioleninist,, no one uses terms like this, you are speaking drivel, bitch.
>>15091243
Elaborate. Are you talking about fascists co-opting actual leftism because it sounds better (Ex: Nazis calling themselves the national socialist workers party even though they clearly weren't socialist)

>>15091322
You're retarded. Also leftists are ontologically liberal. Marxism in particular was born out of the liberal economic and philosophical traditions. It consequently inherited many of their liberal metaphysical assumptions.

>>15091308
Fascism directly linked to nationalism, and nationalism is definitely far right behavior. Unless we are talking Nazbols, this doesn't apply.

>>15091196
>First off, you CANNOT be a leftist and fascist.
Shut the fuck up, milquetoast centrist. I bet either a fascist or a leftist could kill you with one punch. It's amazing how much better extreme ideologies are than moderate ones.

>>15091322
Lmao
>bro just give the state unlimited power and then when we're all equal they'll give it up
Delusional

>>15091344
You dumbass motherfucker. A core tenant of liberalism is sheer economic freedom. Liberalism quite literally spawned Keynesian economic policy which is the bane of Leftist and Marxist schools of economic thought.

>>15091322
>You literally lumped Liberals and Leftists into the same category you fucking mong.
That poster isn't me. In this day and age, anyone who identifies as a leftist is within a degree of 90% certainty a crypto-liberal. They don't want to enact revolution, they just want to bicker between their particular in-groups about whether or not their action meetings are diverse enough.

>Also WTF is a bioleninist
lmao, not my fault you're not up to date on the hot new lingo. google is your friend

>>15091364
Nigger I am a leftist, you bootlicking bitch. Nazbols are not representative of Leftists you cock munching goblinoid. You have no idea what leftism actually is if you think Fascism and it can coexist.

>>15091285
Even before reading Bookchin I accepted the idea of a transitory phase. I’m not fond of Marxists or Dengist China’s methods, but that what we got so far. But Chiapas and Kurds eat away at powerful states, just waiting for them to weaken. We’re like a fungus waiting.
Still donno if we’ll make it.

>>15091322
That example is right. The reactionaries in Russia joined the Reds when they saw who was winning. Happy to crush leftists in Ukraine and elsewhere. Emma Goldman, when she went to visit Volin in prison, she met one self described anarchist kid who was guarding these socialists. Turncoats.

>>15091371
>ThE MarKeTs WiLl CoNTRol ThEmsElves
>THe FrEer the MarkEt ThE FreER the PeopLE

>>15091381
Embarassing, anon. You are philosophically illiterate. Liberalism -- fundamentally -- is about positioning the individual as the condition for authority. See Hobbes' state of nature and Smith's land of barter.

>>15091393
>Nazbols are not representative of Leftists you cock munching goblinoid
not what I said at all. You're awful at this, aren't you?

>>15090941
Because you're retarded

>>15091405
Way to attack a random position while failing to defend your own, lil bitch

>>15090941
gives them the sense of superiority that they need to survive
>>15090949
fpbp

>>15091391
Okay fair enough.
>>15091407
You have no idea how liberalism actually works do you?
Have you ever read actual theory instead of the Libertarian classics?
Liberalism is antithetical due to its habit of folding in on itself when it comes to Wage Slavery. Liberalisms end goal is not a freer society, it is spiral into Hierarchy created by those who grabbed power first.

>>15091358
>and nationalism is definitely far right behavior
how?

>>15091479
You are retarded. I'm not libertarian. I've read more theory than you. Your understanding of liberalism is wrong. Liberalism -- fundamentally -- is about positioning the individual as the condition for authority. See Hobbes' state of nature and Smith's land of barter. Accordingly, leftists are ontologically liberal.

>>15091358
>and nationalism is definitely far right behavior
Idiot. Nationalism comes from enlightenment liberal ideology, French Revolution type shit. Its attachment to "the right" is a modern conception
This isn't even going into the varieties of left-wing nationalism found in Arab, African, Asian, Latin American, Balkan and Celtic societies

>>15091393
>You have no idea what leftism actually is if you think Fascism and it can coexist.
who said that? lol.
marxists can't even co-exist with one another and are always killing eachother

>>15091515
They can have liberal values and not be Liberal dude. Marxists theory came out of Liberal thought, and even goes on to discuss how Liberal Capitalism is a major step up from Feudalism, but that doesn't mean Leftists are liberals. Liberals for example value absolute freedom much more then Leftists, even if that means sliding into fascism (Wiemar Germany is a great example).

>>15091406
>Shut the fuck up, milquetoast centrist. I bet either a fascist or a leftist could kill you with one punch. It's amazing how much better extreme ideologies are than moderate ones.
How are are you implying I am moderate dude?
>>15091506
One of the Rights basic tenants is Nationalism my man. For example when Republicans talk about making America great again, they are dog whistling about putting America first before all others.

>>15091527
This is correct. But I don't know who is responding to who anymore. So I will just cut this discussion short.

>>15091576
You can't hold fundamental liberal metaphysical assumptions and not be liberal. Marxism (and leftism in general) is built upon these assumptions.

>>15091611
>For example when Republicans talk about making America great again, they are dog whistling about putting America first before all others.
Has it occurred to you that they're LYING?
>>15091576
nobody said fascists are liberals, but we are saying that nationalism is an enlightenment ideal

>>15091627
Liberal assumptions are greatly stratified in concept anon. It is an umbrella term, that discusses not one specific thing, but a great variety of concepts. One of them includes economics which is where Marxism split off from.
>>15091628
It doesn't matter if they are lying or not. It is still a direct call back to Nationalism.

>>15090941
leftists have ego but no brains, so they like reading useless shit so they can appear smart to midwits. although I think this board is very much right-wing and lefties here tend to be alright, /his/ and /sci/ are bigger cringe lefties shitholes.

>>15091628
How is nationalism an enlightenment idea anon? Please enlighten me. Because I ain't buying it.

>>15090941
Right wingers blab on about IQ but don't actually like smart people. The jew is the archetypal nerd, and all stories of warriors vs wizards are basically strong-but-dumb christoaryans vanquishing the intellectuals that normies fear. The rightoid hates niggers but wants his people to breed endlessly, kill each other, and worship dictators, just like niggers.

Leftists like literature because they're more comfortable with abstractions that stray outside everyday experience. Unfortunately this leads to a lot of daydreaming idealism among leftists who could otherwise improve society if they learned to organize and compromise properly.

>>15090941
How do you know they are leftists? Do you ask every poster?

>>15091671
have you ever heard of the french revolution?

>>15091662
>Liberal assumptions are greatly stratified in concept anon.
Yes, anon. But ideas have ontological priority in philosophical systems; some come before others, and none come from nowhere. I'm presenting a particular reading of liberalism in which liberal ideas are reduced to a singular, originary, ontologically prior assumption. Marxism and leftism do not escape from this assumption. And in regard to economics, Marxism was literally born out of Smithian economics, which itself was born out of the liberal philosophical tradition.

I feel like half the people in this thread would do well to read Rousseau’s Social Contract. He pretty much destroys the libertarian/ Marxist dichotomy before it even existed. It’s why Marx responded so harshly to Rousseau’s chapter on “the Legislator.” Ayn Rand probably never even bothered, which is why her work is so clearly poorly thought-out, even to people who don’t read much.

>>15091671
Nationalism has its philosophical origin in the liberal philosophical tradition; Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau etc.

>>15091675
As somebody who comes from a communistic government, I'd gladly shoot people like you. I wouldn't need even an order.

>>15091738
Okay I guess I should have stated before ANYTHING was even written in this thread what form of Liberalism we are discussing.
I live in America so the term liberal is heavily obfuscated from what it actually means.
I was confused as you what form you were actually discussing. That being said, what are some good books that discuss the link between Marxism and Liberalism, if you have any at all.

>>15091628
>>15091728
nationalist is an antique idea, chritcuckoldry just put it on hold.

>>15091082

His correct point is that it is still proper to append the label "leftist" to a large proportion of this board's userbase, even and especially in the case that people dislike being labeled. People claim to dislike being labeled because they believe that the label is inaccurate (but they're too close to themselves to know that a broad strokes epithet is likely to describe them well enough for general discussion, even if they don't go along with every point that the label suggests), when the real reason that they dislike being labeled is because they don't want to be found out. And this is especially historically true of the political left. Marx's line that the communist disdains to hide who he is, is plain false (until he is in a position of sufficient power, as has happened again recently). Your posting of Heidegger, for example, as proxy for yourself, can be read as trying to throw off the scent.

The absurdity of leftists evaluating themselves shines through when you see people regularly posting here that "Foucault/Deleuze/etc is a crypto-fascist", or other obviously false "it doesn't count, they're statists" garbage like this >>15091120 . You get a bunch of relative, fictive oxymorons which are only meant to express relative position with the left itself, not within the actual entirety of human political thought.

>>15090941
They don't. Most Marx threads are either trolls or people tearing apart his arguments.

tells you all that /lit/ is a place where people get offended asking for proper citation usage in the lit. it is just entertainment for these people.

>>15091120
>This. Lots of us like learning.
if you only liked thinking as well

>>15091795
Political Theology by Carl Scmitt, On Power by Bertrand de Jouvenel, On Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre

Because it is necessary to consume large amounts of writing in order to educate oneself out of one's connection with reality and into the imaginary plane of leftist reason.

>>15091120
Auntie, I am wondering why you identify with an ideology, leftism, if you are supposedly an independent thinker. Ideology doesn’t move anything forward, and ‘the right’ (monarchists) dont support ‘capitalism’ either. you are just being divisive when you identify with leftism because you are automatically excluding those who aren’t materialists and atheists and who believe that change has to come not just materially but spiritually as well if we are to help humanity.

>>15091308
Right, they used the very popular language of socialism to get the people on their side. And as soon as that was done, Hitler killed all the Strauserites and wrote that communism was a Jewish degeneracy/conspiracy designed to bring down European culture. What a left wing tactic!

>>15091784
I'm not a communist, and you can't shoot me over the internet.

>>15090941
they pretend they like read and academia panders to them and tells them they're good at reading.

>>15091898
>when the real reason that they dislike being labeled is because they don't want to be found out. And this is especially historically true of the political left.
Not really. Communists are still called communists over 100 years after Marx. Liberals are consistent but the word itself changes. Fascists are the ones that sperg out over being called what they are
>ackshually I'm not a nazi i'm a third position ethnonationalist identitarian volk traditionalist nrx far right populist so don't you dare misgender me!!1!

>>15092049
>ackshually I'm not a nazi i'm a third position ethnonationalist identitarian volk traditionalist nrx far right populist so don't you dare misgender me!!1!
nobody does that
the only people who sperg out about being called fascists are libertarians and conservatives

also fascism doesn't need ethnic purity, all it needs is philia

>>15090941
Because Nietzsche won

>>15091978
“Leftism” is a generalization like “forward”. I am for decentralized self governing communities and ultimately a shared economy all in order to allow a maximum amount of freedom.
Uniting with royalists wouldn’t wouldn’t end capitalism. The remnants of the royals adapted to it. It’s bigger than them. Uniting with Christians isn’t my problem, but theirs. They hate the reality of the material world, they too have adapted to capitalism, because it’s essentially spiritual to accept laws of state and capital. They’re as revolutionary as a pseud punker anarchists.

But I am thinking of ways to open up the appeal of the movement. I just worry the fissures wont reseal so easily

>>15092075
Nietzsche didn’t invent fucking capitalism

>>15092089
And yet ultraliberal capitalists are the most Nietzschean people on earth today. Perhaps another kind of person will be more Nietzschean in the future, an autocratic type born from capitalism, but it will be the fruit of ultraliberal capitalism.

>>15092109
>ultraliberal capitalists are the most Nietzschean people on earth today
no they are not lol
they are the epitome of sklavenmoral

>>15092126
You're confused on what people I'm talking about here.

>>15092059

which necessitates a certain degree of ethnic commonality.

>>15092142
>Ayn Rand is lidderaly Nietzschean

>>15090941
People just LARP to be contrarian

>>15092164
i mean yeah? you can't have democracy without that. if everyone sees them self as a different group they're gonna just vote in their groups interest.

the state is only a means to an end, hitler said it himself. he actually unironically wanted to bring about world peace

>>15091243
>authoritarianism is fascist
jesus christ every time I think you cant embarrass yourself further you manage to impress me with how stupid your posts are

>>15092223
what would a fascist state look like without authoritarianism?

>>15092164
vanilla fascism had literally nothing to do with race, it more or less revolved around religion and civic nationalism circle jerking. Mussolini himself said he thought race shit was retarded and that thought is definitely manifested in the civic nationalist policy of fascism

>>15092233
the fact that fascism is authoritarian does not mean authoritarianism is an inherently fascist idea bro, fascism is just one of many forms of authoritarian governance, and a fairly young one at that

>>15092296
>fascism is authoritarian
it doesn't necessarily have to be either

>>15092223
That IS a major aspect of it, dolt.
>>15092296
Learn. To. Read.

>>15092338
jesus christ you're so fucking dumb lmao

>>15092171
Rand is a patriot of capitalism, but ultraliberal capitalism has a greater philosophy behind it.

>>15092338
You cant just say anything authoritarian has "fascist tendencies" just because its authoritarian, authoritarianism is not in any way defined by fascism, you say it has authoritarian tendencies if its authoritarian

>>15092353
>lmao. What’s going on?

>>15092384
Learn. To. Read.

>>15092427
learn to act like like a normal human being instead of a deranged attention starved tranny desperate for validation on 4chan of all places

>>15090941

| x
IQ | x
| x
| x
L________________
<- Right | Left ->

>>15090941
Because I think most are recognizing that left and right has become an outdated political distinction. The dividing line now is between liberals and anti-liberals.

>>15091166
how do I make myself look like kaito?

>>15090941
>Why does lefties
FUCK OFF

>>15091008
>discussing meta politics
>anon brings up "white" politics

Wew lad, you really are a retard. Contact us again when you discover you can randomly assign the category of "white" to a third of all hispanics and to all actual european hispanics. Also, what does this discussion of left right paradigm have anything to do with race? I am aware of race differences, but even I would say there can be a left and a right in Botsuana or Tibet.

>>15090941
Honestly these tranny faggots should go to their own /lit/ containment board. Anyone wanna raid it with me?
https://bunkerchanDOTxyz/edu/catalog.html

>>15091120
>likes learning
>spends life on /lit/
Faganon, I...

ITT: You're not retarded enough to have radical right views, so it means you must be a leftist.

Also why is this thread still up?

>>15090941
It's "Why DO lefties...."

>>15090992
Fuckin wog, facism is an insult in this day and age. What makes you think the dictator of your country will want you alive? What makes you think an elitist, militaristic, totalitarian government state will be a good thing in this day and age with modern technology in all its forms? You wont even know who is really in charge, for all you know it could be your worst enemy implementing a nightmare of a situation on your society. Oh let me guess, in your dreams your the man in charge or your supposed racial superiority will put you in a strong supporting role. Just learn not to mouth breath and shut the Fuck up, coward wont do shit

>>15090941
from the start 4chan was a post-modern nihilist community doing it for lolz and sheit. but after gamergate this website divided ironically into left and right. then 2016 elections came and finally 4chan embraced meta-modernism. and the website got divided into sincere far right and sincere far left under multilayered irony.
/lit/ on the other hand have always been a leftist majority board, it's not new thing. even the /leftypol/ emerged under the shadow of /lit/ and of course /pol/.

>>15092199
>that pic
Ffs, the Left really can't meme. Embarrassing.

>>15094283
Terrible analysis.

>>15090941
This thread is terrible, be very ashamed of yourself. A bunch of monkeys hurling shit at each other would have had a more meaningful discussion.

>>15094790
i know you came from r*ddit
you have to go back braindead boomer

>>15094799
Lol, no. You're trying WAY too hard newfag & fuck your wasted dubs. Nobody even refers "4chan" in that way & the fact you think the site as a whole embraced any specific meme ideology shows what a retard you are. /pol/ embraced the far-right in general (arguably, a whole other topic I don't want to go into), and since its what all you fucking newfags thinks defines the site (like /b/ years ago) you're extrapolating from that to arrive at your shitty conclusions. Now fuck off back to lurking again. 2 years.

>Lol, no. You're trying WAY too hard newfag & fuck your wasted dubs. Nobody even refers "4chan" in that way & the fact you think the site as a whole embraced any specific meme ideology shows what a retard you are. /pol/ embraced the far-right in general (arguably, a whole other topic I don't want to go into), and since its what all you fucking newfags thinks defines the site (like /b/ years ago) you're extrapolating from that to arrive at your shitty conclusions. Now fuck off back to lurking again. 2 years.

>>15091675
>>15091986
God it's so insane to me that people like you think you're smart.

Left values art more, be it literary art or other. Not to say the right doesn't value art, but it values copies of what they consider art more than anything.

>>15090941
The left conflates being smart with being good. They then also fall for the myth that reading makes you smarter. Look at this board. It's a lot of people posturing with whatever the obscure, intractable literature de jour is.

>>15091405
Yes.

>>15092199
You can't even enter into the cultural process without a nation. The dialectical process occurs within the nation as the individual interacts with their localized culture. To live within the global capitalist society or even leftist international one is to be denied this. This is because culture is reflection of the local genetics of a region, which have been developed by geographic isolation and other historical means. The breaking of these bonds is akin to murdering ones on brother or even having sex with him.

Speaking generally, he holds dominion, to whom are entrusted by common consent affairs of state — such as the laying down, interpretation, and abrogation of laws, the fortification of cities, deciding on war and peace, &c. But if this charge belong to a council, composed of the general multitude, then the dominion is called a democracy; if the council be composed of certain chosen persons, then it is an aristocracy ; and, if, lastly, the care of affairs of state, and, consequently, the dominion rest with one man, then it has the name of monarchy.

Those considered only on the whole with the human condition often fall into ignorance and begin to ignore MY CONDITION, or even the condition of my brothers, cousins, countrymen. It is out of arrogance and hate that they claim the right to order the rest of us. Instead of respecting the multiplicity of things, and letting the organic vitalities of language, culture, tradition, order us and be ordered by those that claim legitimate ownership of them, the arrogant snuff out and sterilize all differences. We need to bring back racism, not for strain of hate it will produce, but rather for its potential of high cultural production. As autists it is only within the tradition for us to be racist. How many literary geniuses were racist?

>>15091312
>Core /lit/ is made up of neets, working class autodidacts, and the mentally ill.

>>15092089
>shared economy
>freedom
Observe, ladies and gentlemen. These degenerates have worms in their brains.

>>15094969
Wow, that is some hilarious Grade-A bullshit right there.

>>15091120
so basically you're a waste of pixels upon /lit/

>>15091675
so caricature of /pol/ is now definition of right wing?

>>15090981
I think that's only true post-WW2.

>>15091666
>The 'intellectual' boards are left-wing
Shocker.

Leftists are EXTREMELY online weirdos contrary to what they like to pretend that they are well socialized normal people that just love humanity or whatever fake shit they spew

>>15090941
Why so many meta threads in /lit/ lately?

Fucking hell.

>>15091086
>Correct, they are called neoliberals.

Why can't kids google words like neoliberal, neocon, etc before using them?

>>15095025
Hear, hear.

>>15090941
Lefties like the illusion of mental superiority so they "avidly read" tons of young adult bullshit and pretend to have high verbal intelligence. They don't actually have high comprehension or vocabulary they just don't understand math and think that because they don't get math or spatial reasoning that they must be good at humanities, which is the lowest tier of all academic practices.

Over-rationalizing their own shortcomings leads them to cope by leaning on the passive art of simply absorbing information. Very pathetic if you ask me.

>>15090941

This thread is beyond saving. I thought you would see SOMETHING BETTER THAN REDDIT DISCOURSE POSTED HERE.

>>15097838
where do you think you are?

A literature board implies that the main focus would be reading texts and discussing them (this rarely happens though) Reading itself is an active task one has to go out of their way to do. The act of reading is exposing yourself to the thoughts of other people in a one directional mode of communication. You are allowing yourself to be vulnerable to others who have taken the time to craft the thing you are reading. Your opinion doesn't matter until after the reading is finished. You are allowing them to complete their thought. The more exposure to other peoples experiences the more you are able to empathize with other people. Reading is also pretty cool in that it's the one medium in which you are basically reliving the thoughts of another person. It is the closest to knowing what someone else thought. Watching TV or movies can't get close to this experience. All these things considered, most people that read things of literary merit, are going to be more open and expressive of these things. That means more leftist thought is exposed to these people. It is a deep intellectual stimulation, as opposed to places like /pol/ where the propaganda of an image listing off all the jews of some corporation is simply an expression of an ideological base. Even if someone calls themselves a fascist, accelerationist, catholic, etc. People that read a lot are going to at least be able to understand how someone else can have different opinions.

imagine labeling yourself

>>15098029
using classification is normal, anon. denying labels just makes you a hipster.

>>15090992
>fashy boi
oh god

>>15094280
You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>15091275
based and hobbespilled.

>>15091120
>This. Lots of us like learning.
There's the angst again. I cannot see how you cannot see it.