/lit/ - Literature

>>15076063
Epicurus was a deist though, he just thought god(s) didn't give a fuck about what people did.

>>15076063
The opposite of suffering is not goodness.

>>15076063
God is subjectively evil, but you can only perceive God as evil when you’re a sinner. God is still benevolent to those who love and seek him

>>15076063
why does God have to be "all good"?

How does Epicurus deal with the idea of life after death?

>>15076070
When the world is full of schizophrenics and traditions of schizophrenia rule, an atheist has to pick his battles carefully.

>>15076096
YA PICK ONE. ITS A THOUGHT EXERCISE.

>>15076128
Your soul, assuming there is one, isn’t immortal, why would it be? It all dissipates the same as the body.

>>15076141
Because an immortal soul and life after death solves Epicurus' paradox.

>>15076153
No it doesn’t.

>>15076063
>implying absolute good and evil exist

>>15076141
If a person-body/soul can be initiated once (even 1 time!), it can be initiated again. Not by retarded nature who has no idea how to do anything on its own, but by the benevolent intelligence who pre-ordains everything to his good pleasure.

The fact that you were taken from mere potential to substantial actuality once (even 1 time!), by some power that wasn't your own, should give you pause for concern as to your ultimate destiny and who is actually in control.

"As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the bones are formed in a mother's womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things." Ecclesiastes 11:5

>>15076141
because if it exists it is necessary eternal because it can't come out of nothing, and is immortal since it survived infinetely in the past and if it was mortal would already been dead

>God gives man free will
>Man begs to be God's slave
What a moron

god can delete the need for food, death, fear, anger, predation, sickness instantly, right now... why doesn't he?

>>15076174
Initiated? Uh, yes, there have been people before me and there will be people after me. That’s how it works. Change is the only constant, young Platooian
Dumb nature can’t? And here it did!
>Ecclesiast: you cannot know!!
And here we have surpassed that old outdated trash

>>15076210
Particles are the immortal building blocks of all things you see in nature. They move around and on occasion form sensing beings. The soul, or breath, is no different than the body. It changes out several times in person’s lifetime, but eventually collapses with exhaustion. Don’t fear it.

>>15076233
That some go hungry doesn't mean food as a necessity is bad, does it? I think you mean delete hunger, but that's not what you said.
You said food. Why?

>>15076297
I mean god can magically remove the need for food and water, solving a million problems on earth.

>>15076314
What is your understanding of God's intent that makes you think He would want to do that if He could?

>>15076288
>Dumb nature can’t? And here it did!
the rocks, the trees, the stars, the water, they have no idea how to make anything or even sustain themselves. They are all dependent, finite, and have their being because of the power of God.

"‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’" - St. Paul

Little girls should not talk about spiritual things! Simple!

>>15076288
soul may be an undiscovered paticle

>>15076327
then you agree god is malevolent

>>15076347
>God must make sinners as comfortable as possible, just because uhhhh I said so!
LOL
The pride of sinners knows no bounds.

>>15076136
nice fantasy but i hope you realize it exists solely within your own mind

>>15076288
you're a childless old woman aren't you

>>15076063
You're still a slave moralist for supposing that God has to intervene to defend your petty human moral beliefs. But worse still you use this illegitimate child of your own mediocre cravings and aversions to disprove God in the belief that this "owns theists" and casts doubt on the moral goodness of a God that chose (for reasons best known to himself, evidently) to permit your existence, in spite of your evident lack of noble sentiment because you post this trash literally every day.

>>15076386
Is "Daisy's Destruction" good in the eyes of the Christian god? Serious question.

>>15076364
>God created creatures that would perform evil acts because uhhhhh you can't question God!!

Give it up OP, you can't argue against religionfags(the stubborn ones). They just can't face the cold dark universe

>>15076449
Even we can have an idea of how these things can be for good. The basis of virtually every good story, film, game, etc. is conflict and suffering. That’s where meaning is created. God would be limited if he only had “joy” and indifference to work with. Atheists would complain just as much in any alternate world you can imagine.

>>15076449
>God created creatures
yes, that's the key, and they were good...
But we chose the evil over the good, so are now fallen.
but there is good news! Go read your bible.

>>15076470
Job 12:10
The life of every living thing is in His hand, as well as the breath of all mankind.

>>15076063
Strength, truth and omnibenevolent is through him. They are not separate. Asking god to 'use' strength or benevolence is similar to wondering whether a book can use something in its story to write a totally separate story. Philippians 4:13 strength is through him it's not separate of him. That quote is baby beginning questioning the world.

why is he referring to only 1 male god when greeks worshipped multiple gods?

>>15076063
>NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T ALLOW EVIL TO EXIST
Then how would we have good, retard?

atheists can't even explain evil or the good, so they make everything an illusion including their own self

>>15076564
before Socrates there were philosophers denying the religion of the masses and instead focusing on one God. Have you even read Plato?

>>15076592
nah

>>15076580
Good is all that exists. Evil doesn't

>>15076430
Would you kill the man responsible if you could? If so, you are far from God. And moreover, I think God has a right to allow people the freedom to act contrary to human morality, just as he allows you the freedom to choose how to respond to transgression.

In short, God does not judge in human affairs, he only judges our hearts. There is no regard for earthly good or earthly bad with God. What will count in the last analysis is whether the pedophile repents; if he can truly admit to God that his being in jail is where he ought to be. Then he would end up in heaven, just like Saint Dismas, the thief who was crucified alongside Jesus.

Now if you on the other hand kept a lively hatred for sinners on account of what they have done, that would be a ticket in the opposite direction, this is Evil according to the Christian God. If however, you let it rest, since justice is being done, being content to hate sin and not the sinner, and to be forgiving of as many as possible, that would be good in the eyes of the Christian God.

But God generally won't judge acts in themselves, only the state of mind that goes along with them.

>>15076481
>creating a reality where suffering is needed for meaning
Yeah, nothing malevolent here.

>>15076632
yes, god has control over the rules, he could create a world without suffering and with meaning

>>15076632
as if any other reality is possible

>>15076632
How would meaning be created in your ideal world?

>>15076643
It all has meaning everything is good. It's just degrees of goodness

>>15076517
>>15076517
Xtians think quoting the Bible is some deep act of reverence and demonstration. It only works if the person being condescended to is already familiar with the verse and its context.

>>15076063
>>yfw they never had a chance
>yfw theists complete dominated the next two millennia despite your ebin refutation.

>>15076647
>>15076646
Everything has meaning. There's nothing without meaning. That's importantly good. You can't imagine nothing. What would be actual evil is metaphysically impossible and you couldn't even describe it as maddening

>>15076589
As opposed to what, merely asserting the self and everything else by extension? You can't tell me that theism is empirical. Theisms assertions are as unfounded and suspended as atheism's "assertions."

>>15076653
I get a big kick out this. Atheism can't offer answers to any of man's problems or offer a way to live. They piggyback off materialism, 'sex revolution', science etc. The reason atheism never took over is because it sucks

>>15076656
"Everything has meaning" is a convenient and cheap non-explanation.

>>15076667
What do you mean atheism never took over? In the next 20 years, after the boomers are extinct, "non-religious" will be the most checked self-reporting box.

>>15076657
Theism is analytic. It explains what goodness is and where it comes from and why to keep living. That christianity, buddhism, islam etc survived over purely philosophical gestures in horrific ideocidal environments speaks to them themselves

>>15076618
>Would you kill the man responsible if you could? If so, you are far from God
sounds like this god has no concept of justice

>>15076670
No it's definitely deeper than that. You have metaphysical and physical structures which support this as well as liturgical. The inverse of Quine's statement (everything exists) is nothing does not exist. You can't account for evil as a metaphysical structure except as a going away from goodness. You can't treat evil the same way to goodness. Just as much actual space doesn't have any physical system or it's not a foundation of anything. It's defined as the absence of things. Similarly light/darkness

>>15076676
For 2k years it didn't and now that we dropped religion man is heavily depressed suicidal etc beyond the highs of the great depression

>>15076682
Justice is defined through God it is not outside of him

>>15076656
My question, "how would meaning be created in your ideal world?" Was posited to show the utter stupidity of the assertion that suffering immediately equates to a malevolent God. Imagine you get into a car accident, where you swerve and hit an oak tree on the side of the road; you never think that the landowner who owns the oak must have planted it just to spite you.

>>15076700
>justice is just, like, god’s opinion, man
lol christoids

>>15076700
that's funny
better listen to the guy that thinks god gives human rights to people

>>15076646
>god can’t even pick what kind of realities are allowed
not omnipotent then, cool

>>15076705
Yeah I agree. This pluralist, separatist concept of meaning is what allows these fools to deny God. They refuse to accept there's a hierarchical nature to this universe. I wonder if they can pinpoint anything as starting from anything, yet they do. Atheism and pluralism is a dumb mind game they play w themselves

>>15076648
>no dude actually your baby dying of leukemia is a good thing haha

>>15076063
You can't lump us all in with Christcucks.

>>15076706
God is our word for the universe creator. You must assume a creator of some sort of this universe. In whoever that is, justice flows from the creator or the first creation of this universe. You'd have to deny causality to do that. Even simply denying metaphysical causality is easy to refute just looking at school subjects or the nature of good>truth>justice. They are analytically defined within themselves

>>15076706
*monoid
It’s more or less the same from Plato’s monad to Gnostics, to Indians. But of course you would like it to only be Christian for your polemics.

>>15076732
>You must assume a creator of some sort of this universe.
Nah

>>15076706
not an argument
>>15076712
God also can’t make himself not-God. There’s a balance to omnipotence, omniscience, and benevolence. You can’t even show that a world without suffering (which can easily be said to lack omnipotence) brings out more benevolence than in this world.

>it's another thread where christcucks try to rationalize the fetters of their omnibenevolence clause

>>15076719
It's like coldness isn't a thing. Temperature is simply measured by the degrees of heat (or atoms moving). Cold is a relative term we use but we cannot ever feel actual coldness. Coldness doesn't have an actual structure. What I mean this as is it's not like the number line. There's no negatives in cold which has a physical structure which can output warmth. I don't think numbers are properly constructed as we have them now but as far as real physical objects, we have perfect evidence

>>15076738
okay, those guys are all dumb too. didn’t mean to be culturally insensitive

>>15076741
if there is no cause or reason then the universe doesn’t exist

>>15076717
>They refuse to accept there's a hierarchical nature to this universe.
And there the incel shows himself. I bet you still live with your mom

>>15076096
I really like the idea of Gods being cunts like the Greek pantheon, proving that they made us in their image as since humans are very much cunts. Dumb abrahamic lore says hurr durr god made us in his image yet he is above being petty and a cunt or completely apathetic because he's just good ok no questions asked.
>>15076231
Never thought about it like that, simple yet effective.

>>15076751
Prove it.

>>15076741
You assume your answer is correct no? Even if simply as a utilization way of being correct. This means you accept a metaphysical hierarchy. You accept your answer was correct for you in that time. This was a creation of sorts but you can easily assume, analytically, that there is causally a creator of all.

>>15076742
>There’s a balance to omnipotence, omniscience, and benevolence
nope there’s not

>>15076732
>God is our word for the universe creator. You must assume a creator of some sort of this universe
lol
>In whoever that is, justice flows from the creator or the first creation of this universe.
unironic worshipping of the demiurge, gross
>You'd have to deny causality to do that.
your uncaused causer is already violating causality, or did your god cause causality? what a illogical web you weave

>>15076753
Why are you on this site. Go to bed or go out. It's Saturday and you're up here wasting your time looking foolish.

>>15076738
imagine being this poorly read on eastern and gnostic belief

>>15076749
>dude it’s like atoms and cold and shit lmao
cope

>>15076096
Abrahamic religion is the democratized form of pagan religion, so it must, in order to be successful with the people, idolize "the good," who are historically also known as "the weak."

>>15076682
No, it sounds like you lack justice.

Remind me when you one day find that you yourself are guilty of some offense, whether serious or not, to come around and be sure to hang you, and so fulfill your philosophical beliefs about justice in your own case. As for me, I will not assume that I will never break the law, and if I do, I will go to jail without fuss, and submit patiently to whatever society requires for their forgiveness of me. I will do all this and not end my life even though I recognize that bigoted individuals like you exist, who will never give me another chance.

>>15076759
>but you can easily assume, analytically, that there is causally a creator of all.
yeah I can but I don’t have to

>>15076386
Why is his penis the calculated center of the painting?

>>15076762
No I don't try to understand the creator or anything around or before etc. In this universe simply everything has a cause and you can map out everything prior and it starts to form a point as single things explain multiple causes, usually conjoined with others. We can't say a child birthed a mom but we have say an asymmetric relationship between them. We can do this for everything. It's not convoluted

>>15076335
They are just particles, but they move about till life spring where life does.
... I am a big girl now, child. And I know much more than you.

>>15076346
It may, but why would we believe an ancient myth that claims its immortal?

>>15076383
I am at the noon of my life.

>>15076777
oh great, so if i'm guilty of an offense i get hanged, but if you're guilty of an offense you go to jail

and this is the guy saying i lack justice

>>15076778
You do and again you do this on a micro scale with everything. Something creates a truth for you to use in your responses

>>15076750
Thnx for at least calling everyone dum.

>>15076795
Leave ugly wannabe hor

>>15076800
>You do
Nope

>>15076795
>... I am a big girl now, child. And I know much more than you.
Yah, and I bet you know more than Spinoza and Hegel too.

>>15076799
No, you said you wanted to hang the pedophile, so I apply your law to you. You said that the death penalty was good, so I think you should believe the same thing when you're guilty of an offense, you fucking hypocrite.

If this quote btfo'd us why are y'all in major cope mode

>>15076815
>you said you wanted to hang the pedophile
i didn't
>You said that the death penalty was good
i didn't

>>15076063
I would say that god is able but not willing. However i'm not sure if that would necessarily count as malevolence. Things are often defined by their opposites. After all how would you know what softness is if you did not know what hardness is? How would you define what happiness was if you did not know sadness existed? The only reason why these things have meaning is because these things have a opposite mirror that can be use to define itself against. In the same regard how can you have good without evil? If its true you cannot have one without out the other then is god malevolent because he chooses to preserve goodness even if it permits evil? Personally I believe goodness should be allowed to exist even if it does allow for evil to exist as well.

>>15076794
>phenomena appear to have causes
>therefore there is a first event, this first event is an ex nihilo intelligent being, and justice comes from it
is this trolling?

>>15076825
You said that God lacked justice because he doesn't wish for you to kill the pedophile. I can only assume that therefore, you approve of the death penalty, and that if God's desires were your desires, you would be permitted to kill the pedo. How is that different from the death penalty?

>>15076764
Have you ever gotten laid? I have

>>15076841
alright you got me
i just want to kill pedophiles

>>15076839
No I laid out the ontology for a hierarchy already, you're just being disingenuous

>>15076848
Me too friend high five

>>15076855
>No I laid out the ontology for a hierarchy already, you're just being disingenuous
there is nothing to be disingenuous about in saying
>therefore there is a first event, this first event is an ex nihilo intelligent being, and justice comes from it
that is literally your position as you've stated it

>>15076850
Thank you for being honest with me, honesty is among God's greatest desires for mankind. I understand despising pedos, but vigilantism is also against God's will.

>>15076874
I've laid out my point and you just straw manned me. I explained the mechanism of my point and you just said 'ex nihilo being'. In fact, in large part, I wasn't even speaking about god just simply how his creation works. If you have an argument to that please indicate your response. I'm not interested in speaking about where god comes from, just his creation and how they connect back to him

>>15076084
Sinner is a morally charged word, what you've posted here is literally saying "if you're in the cult, it all makes sense". Give your head a shake

>>15076063
There's a complicated discussion in philosophy where some people say that what makes things the way they are is the substance. Many other views exist, and some deny it and say that realtions is what makes things the way they are (and that actually makes much more sense e.g. you're European because you're born in Europe). This view implies that God, through creation of this universe, could realize the good things that we know (me, you and many others). God could not create you in the paradise because the thing that makes you (((you))) is that you were born there and then, by your parents and with your life story. When you have become yourself, only then may you receive God's peace treaty and live with him eternally. But your (and mine) only possibility for that was to be created in this universe with the rules it works under. God could have created another world where everything is good, and he actually did - it's called paradise. But it was at the same time good of Him creating our universe to realise different values that exist here. It was good for us as it is our only possibility for a life with God and it was good for God that can have relations with us all. It, however, implied a risque that God took by creating a universe like that - that there is suffering, that it is governed by randomness and that God seems hidden and little active. But it is also a type of universe where a lot of good things happen. If this is how one understands creation then there's really no contradiction between an all-powerfull and good God, and evil in this world.

>>15076907
>waaah it's a strawman because it's not favorable
Holy shit stop being such a child. YOU'RE the one claiming the universe has a creator as a first cause. Is that not ex nihilo? Of course we both know you don't entertain that possibility. Are you being whinny because I'm not giving attention to your pointless hierarchy of "good>truth>justice"? Why even talk about that imagined hierarchy when the logic of your premises is so fucked?

How about this ultimatum: demonstrate where
>therefore there is a first event, this first event is an ex nihilo intelligent being, and justice comes from it
is being uncharitable and we can discuss it, otherwise I will just assume you are completely incapable of critical thought and are simply uncomfortable staring your own belief in the face

>>15076174
>you were taken from mere potential to substantial actuality once (even 1 time!), by some power that wasn't your own
Sucks for those crack babies or those children with cancer. That "power" that brings them into existence either doesn't care, or approves of evil

>>15076957
Because it has nothing to do with the conversation. We're speaking about how justice works IN God's creation and I used examples to emulate that. You instead made the claim that I called God an ex nihilo being, which I did not and even implied I don't tie myself to that interpretation. I even opened up that god maybe created an outer universe that could have created our universe. In fact I don't speak of it because it's entire off topic. In this universe we have a metaphysical hierarchy and an absolute structure we must all use.

He was talking about the Greek Gods though. This argument doesn't work for Christianity

>>15076974
Oh we aren't talking about your very narrow theology? This is easy then, the demiurge of memphis Egyptian mythology (Ptah) is not the source of justice, nor is the heliopolis demiurge (Atum). In fact Maat and her 42 assessors are.

Satisfied?

>>15076755
>I really like the idea of Gods being cunts like the Greek pantheon, proving that they made us in their image as since humans are very much cunts. Dumb abrahamic lore says hurr durr god made us in his image yet he is above being petty and a cunt or completely apathetic because he's just good ok no questions asked.
The Abrahamic God is really not that different from the Greek ones. Yaweh is just Middle Eastern Zeus. In numerous places in the old testament he is described as having the appearance of a man with a long flowing beard. He is also a massive cunt, who has issues with jealousy, impulsiveness, and control, and man being made in his image i guess is where we get those qualities from.

>>15076992
Wth does that have to w what wat I said, none of that is related and I am Christian I just never brought up the definition of God's divinity. If you can't rebut my points I made on the mechanism of justice or goodness then I advise you log off for the night

>>15076976
Why not?

>>15077009
Let's make this easy
Is it in fact your claim that the demiurge is the originator of justice?

>>15077004
>who has issues with jealousy, impulsiveness, and control, and man being made in his image i guess is where we get those qualities from
Yet he didn't have issues with lust. Which is interesting because humans projected their own passions onto the gods of ancient Greece and lust is obviously a huge passion for humans. You might expect the same to happen with the Abrahamic God. So, I wonder how it came to be that humans could invent and uphold such a chaste religion when the natural tendency for humans is to follow their lust.

>>15076564
>>15076592
Greeks used the singular "god" to mean plural. Like we use "man" in the singular in rights of man, or modern man, but we don't mean the rights of one man, but of mankind. Plato does it all the time. It does not necessarily imply a theological statement about monotheism. It would perhaps be best translated as "divinity".

>>15077032
No in fact, you brought that up and whether he's an extra dimensional platipus doesn't matter. The conversation is on the mechanism of good or justice and whether evil exists or not

>it's another nihilist cope and strawman thread

>>15077039
>Yet he didn't have issues with lust.
He knocked up Mary.
>that humans could invent and uphold such a chaste religion
War brides and concubines hardly make for a chaste religion

>>15077039
>Yet he didn't have issues with lust.
Also, go through some of the Prophets. Israel is his bride and he talks about her in very sexual terms, sometimes calling her a filthy whore when he gets mad at her lol. He has some kind of sexual relation with his chosen people

>>15077095
Interesting, so you think justice and goodness doesn't come from the creator deity (seems to me to be a departure from your earlier statement, but okay). Where does it come from?

>>15076795
>I am at the noon of my life.

>>15076063
Omnipotence, omniscence is a myth.
God is basically a programmer.
Also the "problem" of evil does not apply to Christianity because it is explained by Satan and free will.

>>15077116
It does come from God but that's all that matters in the discussion. If I spoke of how a child operates it wouldn't matter if the child came from pinocchio

>>15077165
Then why does justice come from Maat and the 42 assessors, and not Ptah or Atum? Or why is Yama, not Brahman, the figurehead of justice?
Are you sure we aren't talking about your very specific theology? I'm starting to think the base assumptions of your worldview actually do matter...

>>15077183
Yes we are talking about the narrow subject of our universe and what mechanism it rolls by. I suggested a mechanism w physical and metaphysical representations. You have suggested absolutely nothing but a laundry list of gods and incomprehension

>>15076063

The worst part of all is that they will still obstinantly pretend as though a satisfactory rebuttal has been made, when it hasn't.

>>15076063
This picture is posted at least once a week, and at least once a week it gets refuted.

>>15077204
Yet it's us in this thread rolling y'all and not the other way around. For a brainlet that must be suggestive to you, would it?

>>15077200
And by that, of course, you mean your concept of the uncreated god who created everything? Who, by virtue of being the first, is the source of justice?
I'll bite. How does being the first cause give you authority on what justice means to a human?

>>15077209
That's not at all a good summation. It's that some creation mechanism spawns some things which spawn others. On the xth cycle you have justice. A similarity is seen in atoms. Granted atoms have 'atoms' of themselves but hydrogen was first then from two hydrogen you get helium. You can mix helium with hydrogen or w another helium. Cycle goes on but hierarchy exists. The nature of this hierarchy has byproducts such as constitution. Hydrogen is more foundational than say unundecium which last perhaps a second.

We can say Justice objectively exists (I cite Kant but am open to justifying it). Now justice can only operate if truth exists. You can't say anything about justice without truth. Now it isn't a symmetric relationship (I can't say we can only define truth by justice). It's asymmetric. Now this is crude but I say you can't define truth without good and I say you can't define good without being. Of course I assume being is god, it comes from God.

The justifications are long and could always use work and might miss a few steps. The only thing I'm interested in using is the mechanism and I'm more comfortable showing this mechanism from any branch of math to logic then ontology then truth then being itself.

>>15077004
Yet the Abrahamic god being cruel is decipted as a positive. Greek gods were raping, cannibal, lying cunts and known for being humanly selfish. But when the abrahamic god kills for whatever personal whim, no one doubts the motive as if he were morally above man instead of our equal in that regard.
That's pretty much the main difference between how I see them.

>>15077204
>>15077207

>>15077254

>>15077252
>That's not at all a good summation. It's that some creation mechanism spawns some things which spawn others. On the xth cycle you have justice.
This literally makes no sense, unless you are arguing for a materialistic evolutionary basis for justice as a feature of human psychology... which I know you aren't

> A similarity is seen in atoms. Granted atoms have 'atoms' of themselves but hydrogen was first then from two hydrogen you get helium. You can mix helium with hydrogen or w another helium. Cycle goes on but hierarchy exists. The nature of this hierarchy has byproducts such as constitution. Hydrogen is more foundational than say unundecium which last perhaps a second.
Let's not talk with pointless analogies. In BBN hydrogen isn't "first" it is just the most numerous to condense out of the expansion. These are all details of the analogy, and not whatever you are talking about. So for the sake of brevity let's ignore this pointless analogy.

>We can say Justice objectively exists (I cite Kant but am open to justifying it).
define "objectively"

>We can say Justice objectively exists (I cite Kant but am open to justifying it). Now justice can only operate if truth exists. You can't say anything about justice without truth. Now it isn't a symmetric relationship (I can't say we can only define truth by justice). It's asymmetric.
I'm not sure I agree with this, but I don't believe it matters so let's admit it in

>Now this is crude but I say you can't define truth without good
Here's the important part. I don't see any sense in this statement.Feel free to try to justify it, I'll read it when I wake up.

>I say you can't define good without being
I think this is fair

>Of course I assume being is god, it comes from God.
Again, this is a weird statement when brought back to the idea of good. Good concerns the state of affairs of beings, so why does it matter how they originated? The consequences they face as a result of the circumstances of creation? This is just utilitarianism with a middle man, there is no reason to reference god if this is your line of thought.

>>15076136
Atheists only have to decide whether to be saved or not.

>>15077916
cringe...

>>15076288
>>15076288
Particles don't exist, that's basically a meme or "stamp" as Feynmann would call it in order to better conceptualize it.
The only thing that actually exists are mathematics which are inherently platonic and not material/physical.
Uniformitarianism of mathematics true, change doesn't exist either.

>>15078413
>The only thing that actually exists are mathematics which are inherently platonic and not material/physical.

>>15076063
>theistfag
epicurus didnt deny the existence of the gods

>>15078422
Not an argument, midwit.

>>15076063
>Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

This does not follow.

>>15076676
>durr only america exists
>durr the atheists have above replacement birthrates (no they dont)
>herp we will convert you children to atheism
>nooo you cant possibly convert atheists to religion nooooo!!!

>>15077323
Yes I clearly am not. You have terrible retention skills.

Here's what it is. Everything has an asymmetric relationship with something else including metaphysical things that creates a smaller and smaller point at one end. That's not debatable it's not controversial. If you don't agree then you're retarded and you have nothing to stand up to. I have given very simple explanations for a very simple process. If you can't understand it then you deserve to go to hell, you deserve to have a miserable life and you deserve everything terrible that comes to you.

In order to just shove your stupidity in your face I'd like to show another example of this, of which there are as many in this universe as there are relationships. Evolution of animals bugs literally anything. It's a common asymmetric hierarchical relationship. I don't feel like there's any reason to tell you anything anymore. If I was in charge of a purge you would be skinned alive in front of and by your family and then I'd do them.

Shame he spent his whole life in the shadow of Plato the theist. But thats what happens to fedorcucks

>>15078413
>the structure doesn’t exist. Only the blueprints
>he doesn’t know we live in the blueprints
Stamp it however you like, this is the world we have and there is no other, much less a solid state one you can spend eternity building your brain up on. You die.

>>15079918
He was more popular than stoics at the time. It was only the christcuck age that adopted Plato and Aristotle

>>15079952
Im not talking about the stoics, tripqueer. He was in the shadow of Socrates’ chad boys.
Even today his influence is tiny compared to the stoics

>>15079965
I know what you said. In his tome and after he was more popular than the Stoics. Plato and Aristotle weren’t interesting to people. Alexander’s court had long vanished and Aristotle’s books were lost in the west. Sure Romans eventually took up more stoicism before the christian seepage infected the continent, but he was quite popular for being the rightest philosopher of the ancient world.

>>15076063
The only ways to cope with God's ethical existence can be either to say there is no such thing as absolute morals (cope with that christcucks lol), or to say that as he is some eternal being and us only finite ones, his plans are beyond our comprehension. In the last case, I just say that if such things happen, then better god specifies what he wants or we can continue going to more logical grounds.

inb4
>but his logic is also beyond us
if so, my response is the same as above

>>15079860
>Here's what it is. Everything has an asymmetric relationship with something else including metaphysical things that creates a smaller and smaller point at one end. That's not debatable it's not controversial.
Prove it

>If you don't agree then you're retarded and you have nothing to stand up to. I have given very simple explanations for a very simple process. If you can't understand it then you deserve to go to hell, you deserve to have a miserable life and you deserve everything terrible that comes to you.
Yes, your very simple mind has created a number of very simple associations to justify the theology you've inherited

>In order to just shove your stupidity in your face I'd like to show another example of this, of which there are as many in this universe as there are relationships. Evolution of animals bugs literally anything. It's a common asymmetric hierarchical relationship.
A hierarchy in time, maybe, but everything possess that hierarchy, but knowing you this is actually an expression of your retardation believing in a rank and teleology to evolution.

>I don't feel like there's any reason to tell you anything anymore. If I was in charge of a purge you would be skinned alive in front of and by your family and then I'd do them.
Don't pretend to be a troll after all this genuine retardation

>>15080001
>feel good guy was temporarily more popular than actual philosophy
Wow you dont say

>>15080105
>Practically applicable guy appeals to the masses as they lose faith in pantheism
Yeah. This “shadow” of Byzantine drivel to conjure up gods has always been degenerating for society.
He wasn’t in those guy’s shadow, fedoracuck.

>>15079952
We do not live in the blueprints as there are physical noumena which aren't computable while all material that we have are computable, which is a contradiction. Read Tegmark.
>this is the world we have and there is no other
This is not the current scientific consensus.

>>15077916
based...

>>15076481
Not if God was benevolent.

>>15076481
Where was the suffering in Eden?

>>15080893
>nu, I’m gonna say the material world is real again. Eat dat!
>also, science supports heaven! So there!

>>15076168
good = me
evil = u

owned

>>15076777
Obvious troll

>>15080104
I did you moron. You just can't read and like the smell of your own farts. I did multiple times. You digressed into a laundry list of gods. If you had a poignant rebuttal to anything I said then you would have made it. This is years of studying or lifetimes I have no clue beyond you. You simply writing isn't a response. You might as well have been speaking gibberish because you invested yourself in points arguments entirely separate from the conversation and completely got brainfogged by the absolutely clear, and repetitive, points I made in support of my argument. That it took you until the last couple responses to realize you weren't at all even on topic is sufficiently evidential of your place in this conversation, in this thread.

>>15082524
Sorry kid, you can't side step the human experience of justice by imagining a hierarchy of creation. Take your schizo meds for once and maybe you'll stop seeing hydrogen as the authority on justice for carbon.

god creates suffering as it gives meaning which is epic and deep
real heads go to hell as that where meaning is
big stupid fags go to heaven where it is pleasurable and suffering free and meaningless

The problem of evil is laughable and for numale soicuck fedoratards.

There you go, now end this thread and stop fucking questioning our Lord.

>>15082552
You can try and pretend you didn't make yourself look like an absolute fool and you will have to let it sink in you have no idea what you're talking about. You can pretend you were shitposting or you were tired but you absolutely self invested yourself and were entire incorrect. That you can only pretend to shitpost to save face is a perfect theme of the nature of your knowledge and, I'm sure, your life.

>>15082552
You have to accept you're a worthless little worm and I'm not only more correct than you but I'm smarter than you and your little image of yourself as a self provider due to your wits is entirely wrong. You are dumb. I'm here to explain exactly why. It's why you're worth nothing and it's why you're a turbocuck. I don't have to be here to prove you. The light of God through facts does it without me. You are drowning cockroach. I am here to deliver that message

>>15082605
>>15082623
cringe lol

>>15082605
>>15082623
Repetition doesn't make something true anon, even if it does make it easier for you to avoid confronting your own hollow beliefs ;^)

>>15076063
None of that actually follows logically. It's a set of baseless assertions.

>>15082642
>>15082643
Cope nazi cuck. I put you in sex slavery along w your friends and leaders. Every one of them

>>15082623
This is one of the funniest posts I've ever seen

>>15082672
>Cope nazi cuck

>>15082692
Cope nazi scum

>>15082698
That image is always a projection. It hasn't been proven yet but it's objective unexplored fact.

>>15082699
I'm not him, I don't even care about what you guys are saying your post was just funny. Also I hope you're not one cringey basedboys. DURRRR JEWS ARE A RACE, RACISMMMMMM, HATING JEWS IS WAYCIST, ANTI SEMITISM IS A WORD THAT I USE PROPERLY.

>>15076952
It's more saying. If you're right it makes sense, which is apriori logic and pretty hard to disagree with.

>btfo christfags
>the very first thing people see next to your name is how close to the birth of christ you lived

>>15076063
B8

>>15076231
you are using a human's perspective of free will. a human's idea of natural law. do you not think an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being could conceive an existence where free will exists and evil does not? a human can't, but a god could, and should