/lit/ - Literature

>>15074194
Spurdo?

>>15074194
In original intent, no. In ignorant behest yes. In current influence absolutely.

>>15074194
FUCK the demiurge

>>15074313
This
his butt looks so soft

>>15074313
>>15074270
Spurdo fugged the demiurg :DDDDD

decide for yourself

>>15074194
The problem with the demiurge is that you can't create the universe. The universe is everything. Where are you going to get stuff to create everything when there can be nothing outside of everything?

Thoughts like this stem from thinking about the universe in the same way you would think about a house. If you want to learn more about a house, you can talk to it's creators about the various materials used, and go to school for architecture etc. When you want to learn more about a flower you can plant a seed then watch it grow, and test such flower in different soils and environments. When people wanted to learn more about something, they would study it's creator. So, eventually, people looked at general shit like fire, and thought, what is the creator of that? Well, we must not be able to see him! What is the creator of water? Well, he must live somewhere else! And be very powerful! Hence you get crazy polytheistic pagan systems of thought with hundreds of gods. Even fucking Plato does this, with his laughable out-of-date thought that the presocratics were already done with when they realized godly transcendance is impossible, and became pantheists ("Everything is water" -Thales, "God is day and night, winter and summer, war and peace, surfeit and hunger" -Heraclitus).

>>15074366
2/7

What is the most kino Gnostic gospel?

>>15074373
3/7

>>15074377
oops 3/7

>>15074375
The Exegesis of Philip K. Dick and the VALIS trilogy (yes, they are genuine gnostic scriptures, fuck anyone that says otherwise)
>>15074385
4/7

>>15074393
5/7

>>15074406
6/7

>>15074417
FIN

>>15074425
>to be continued...
Where is the rest?

>>15074194
discord.gg/M8UpmE7

>>15074375
the Apocryphon of John

>>15074375
Pistis Sophia

>>15074194
yes

>>15074194
You know in Fantasia where Mickey is an apprentice to the wizard, but tries to improvise while the wizard is away and fucks everything up? It's the same thing.

>>15074375
the gospel of judas

>>15074699
whoa im just now reading about this

>>15074194
Perkele

>>15074732
unfortunately it's really fragmentary, but the whole concept behind it is fascinating.

>>15074194
Yes, but so have we all – the extent to which the universe is our fault is indeterminate, and we are all complicit, even in our own enslavement.

That's not to create a false equivalency. The demiurge fucked up really bad and continues to do heinous things. But the model of the demiurge's behavior is in all of us, and we replicate it, in the way we make factory farms for animals, and so on. Not only are we demiurgic in our own way, but the demiurge too can (and will) be saved.

>>15074436
woof. Anon asking the big questions

>>15074699
I think this one was written by an ancient troll. It's just too perfect, picking the most hated disciple to be the only woke one, Jesus laughing at the disciples and telling them their teachings were going to mislead the whole world. It seems like an attempt at shit-stirring.

>>15075257
I think it really just stems from thinking about the life and death of Jesus. Think about it logically. Jesus needed to be betrayed in order to fulfill his mission. Ergo, Judas was the most necessary disciple, the most favored one.

>>15074368
>The universe is everything

Allow me to introduce you to the multiverse.

Nah. This is the process of creating a divine being.

>>15075257
>>15075274
Have you guys even read the text?
Because based on your summary I'd say no.
Sounds like you skimmed the wikipedia article for a couple of seconds and then came back to prove how big brained you are.

>>15075306
>based on your summary
I didn't write a summary. Not sure why you're even trying to measure dicks here, it takes like 10 minutes to read and is in plain language.

>>15074847
>>15074699
Without the Gospel of Judas, none of the New Testament really makes sense.

>>15076024
Gnostic Jesus is best Jesus. Just finished reading VALIS, btw. It was awesome.

Any recommendations for a good Gnostic Bible?

>>15074194
No.

>>15074194
God gnosticism is retarded. Does it really have to be the official /lit/ larp?

>>15076183
>t. archon

>>15076107
in Gnosticism, texts are only an aid. They aren't fetishized. Internal knowledge is more important. Don't fetishize books just because they're ancient. That's why I always recommend PKD because he is closer to home and more comprehensible to us living today. But if you are going to get the Nag Hammadi library make sure you get an older edition. Don't get the Marvin W. Meyer version, as that version was edited to be politically correct in weird ways, like getting rid of gendered language for god, and substituting the word Human for Man and all kinds of weird crap like that.

Thanks to the Demiurge we are able to experience things like anime, s'mores, griefing, coffee, the entirety of aesthetic appreciation, a hot shower. Thank you demiurge.

>>15074425
Are Chaos/Monad and the Aeons too retarded to just, you know, kill the Demiurge? What's with the tiptoeing shit with Christ?
Better yet, Chaos and Silence had to have known it would led to this, right? Every aeon emanated further from them would be more prone to fucking up. Or this another case of selective amnesia with omniscient beings?

>>15076307
>Are Chaos/Monad and the Aeons too retarded to just, you know, kill the Demiurge? What's with the tiptoeing shit with Christ?
Read VALIS. Good acts by influencing, not by forcing. God is slowly influencing our world covertly into becoming isomorphic with him.

>>15076304
thanks to the D*miurge I am able to suffer even more knowing that those wonderful things exist but I can not enjoy them due to the lifelong ptsd, extreme loneliness, physical ailments, and mdd he opened the floodgates to drown me in

>>15076315
>Good acts by influencing, not by forcing
To influence is to force, just not obviously.
>influencing our world covertly
Apparently not well enough, considering, Christ, if by Gnostic understanding was the "serpent" who temped Eve, is the literal reason why we aren't chilling in Eden right now. How "covert" is having Christ killed and making the largest religion in the world out of his death (a distorted version of his teachings at that). God doesn't seem to be doing that good of a job.

If suffering here in the Kenoma is so horrible, how "good" could God's slow ass be in waiting?

>>15076441
Stop taking this shit in the most retardedly literal sense possible

>>15076450
I'm sorry, what sense am I supposed to take it? Maybe I should just read that fucking sci-fi book written in the 80s you recommended to me in order to attain gnosis.

>>15076505
You should read it because it's thought provoking and interesting. To agree with it completely would be insane or retarded. But it's a really good book with gnostic ideas.

>>15076525
Perhaps, but it's kind of hard to take you seriously when you ask of someone to read sci-fi in response to a theological question. It would be like recommending Evangelion to someone asking about the Kabbalah.

>>15076574
That book is full of explicit discussion of gnosticism, gnostic texts, gnostic thinkers etc. It's essentially a gnostic-philosophical tract with a little bit of story thrown in. The reason that I recommend it over older texts is because PKD is a modern man, and thinks in the same terms that we do. It makes it more enjoyable.

>>15076574
VALIS is only classified as sci-fi because it sounds better than "semi-autobiographical schizoid ramblings", and was only printed because PKD was already a well-established author. It's the work of a man who legitimately believed himself to be a Gnostic prophet. Not exactly genre fiction.

>>15076588
>>15076609
Really? I will give it a look then. I didn't know it was all of that.
>The reason that I recommend it over older texts is because PKD is a modern man, and thinks in the same terms that we do. It makes it more enjoyable.
Yeah, but that can also be dangerous, because teachings can be distorted with modern language and modern understanding, e.g. modern Hermeticism.

>>15076611
Ancient people aren't gods. If modern people can distort things, then so can ancients. How do you know Dick's gnosticism isn't less distorted than the "originals"? Maybe it's an improvement on them? I don't subscribe to gnosticism by the way, but I do have an interest in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s3S-2RhR3s

>>15076307

>imagine if fundaments of reality could kill each other

>>15077087

There's a reason its called FULLNESS and not a higher plane

>>15074194

>>15078834
Is that a zeppelin on a bombing run?

>>15074425
>citizenkaneclapping.gif

bravo

love the whole thing. the archetype designs are particularly neat.

on a different but related note, i have been given to understand that gnosticism is the key to blood meridian -- essentially, the framework on which story rests. yet, for all the many bm threads that come and go on /lit/, i'm not sure i've ever seen anyone ever unpack that (very plausible, and almost certainly correct) thesis.

maybe some knowledgeable anon could do so..

>>15079414
>(very plausible, and almost certainly correct)

i refer to this article:

“Striking the Fire Out of the Rock”: Gnostic Theology in Cormac McCarthy’s Blood Meridian
>https://muse.jhu.edu/article/363646

>>15078834

>Demiurge responsible for anime

I fucking knew it

>>15074366
>>15074373
>>15074385
>>15074393
>>15074406
>>15074417
>>15074425
schizo nonsense

>>15074674
I like this analogy

>>15079598
How is it any more schizo than other religions?

curiosity bump

>>15078522
What reason is that?

>>15079598
all religions are schizo. Are you seriously implying christ wasn't a schizo? He literally thought he was the son of god. Gautama almost starved himself to death under a tree because he saw people were sick and poor. Do you know how insane that would appear to you, a normal person? Schizophrenia is a holy thing. Yes, it is a curse, a terrible, terrible curse to almost everyone that has it, it is the most debilitating disease, and most terrifying way to perish, and anti-psychotics should be absolutely free for anyone that needs them. But every holy man, oracle, prophet, shaman, and saint in history has had it.

>>15074425
Soooooo, what happens next? Also sex is bad? That's how the Divine gets trapped even more in matter?

>>15083471
As well many of them had OCD, this is where much of the ritualization of faiths come from.
Marten Luther for example.
https://youtu.be/4WwAQqWUkpI

>>15083642
I'm suspicious of the idea that sex is bad and traps more divinity in the material world. I think the existence of material human bodies is actually good and a necessary step in freeing the divine. Ancient gnostics lacked a lot of knowledge about the nature of the material world, for example that it existed for billions of years before humans were around and that the human body was created through eons of selection on simpler organisms. Where was the Divine trapped during this time? I think it isn't specifically trapped in humans and other animals, but latent in all matter. And in order to be freed through gnosis, a spark of divinity needs to be housed in a material structure similar to the human brain. (Rocks and cows don't reach gnosis.) In this view, sex is good because it creates more human bodies which are potential escape valves for the divinity that's already here.

>>15084029
>for example that it existed for billions of years before humans were around
>the human body was created through eons of selection on simpler organisms