/lit/ - Literature

>>>/leftypol/
Can't bulk when there's no food

Don't listen to this fool, exercise in the park.

was marx /fit/?

>>11979
>can't even write properly
>>>/mlpol/

>>12090
No, he was /shit/

>>12125
how are you still SEETHING at him?

>>11979
Fuck off.

/fit/ is right-wing. We literally work to imrpove ourselves. We're the ultimate individualists.

Get the fuck off my board fucking humanities majors, don't you have a LGBT history test to take or something?

>>12549
>individualists
>support capitalism which drives monoulture

>>12766
Please explain to me how capitalism is monoculture? The only thing we have in common, is that we're driven by profit (most of the time anyway, because some people are motivated by charity/religion/whatever).

Under communism, not only is the motivation to produce the same (hur dur, social needs), but the way we actually consume what we produce is the same.

GAS THE BOURGIES CLASS WAR NOW

>>12871
take popular music
it's all the fucking same, the """differences""" are just window dressing

>>12895
Are you fucking retarded? A class war? The Bourgeoisie would win simply due to the amount of money and resources they have at their disposal.

For being an intellectual board, you litizens sure are stupid.

>>12871
>Please explain to me how capitalism is monoculture?

Consumerism is monoculture.

>>11979
shut the fuck up you marxist faggot. You are the cancer of society. You follow against nature and that's why you will never succeed.

>>12953
Right, and claiming that capitalism is mono-culture because on genre of the entire music industry happens to be mono-thematic is reasonable?

And that's the entire point of genres. Pop music sounds the same, because well, it's pop. Country music sounds the same, because it's country. Similar elements in a genre tend to share common traits, that's the entire point.

Kill yourself faggot and take your terrible failed ideology with you

>>12953
wow it is almost like you have the choice to listen to other music than whats popular

holy fuck i thought you were actually going somewhere but i forgot all marxists are absolutely fucking retarded

>>12963
>/lit/
>"""intellectual"""
It's just a ton of narcissistic introverted lefties who think they're philosophers because they read books

>>12766
>>12977

hey look, buzzwords without any meaning.

>>12963
>The Bourgeoisie would win simply due to the amount of money and resources they have at their disposal.
History literally proves you wrong.

>>12977
No, because you consume whatever YOU want to consume. You produce what YOU want to produce.

On the other side of the spectrum, you produce and consume in accordance to whatever the societal need is. You're literally living for others.

How is communism not collectivism? How is Capitalist the collective ideology?

>>13009
>>13024
>muh human nature
>ignoring that early tribal society was effectively communist
Look at these fucking bootlickers. Look at them and laugh.

>>13095
>No, because you consume whatever YOU want to consume.
And you want to consume what you're told to want to consume.
>You produce what YOU want to produce.
You produce whatever will generate profit for your employer.

>>13012
>>13025
/popular music/[1] as opposed to serious music[2] not "pop" or "music that is popular", you fucking illiterates

[1] referred to by adorno as "jazz"
[2] referred to by plebs as "classical music"

>>12352
I don't know about >>12125
but I'm fine with him.
His supporters on the other hand need to eat a bullet.

I'M COMIN FOR YER TOOTHBRUSH

>>13125
>>ignoring that early tribal society was effectively communist
There was no means of production in tribal society you fucking retard.

>>13285
>can i get you some fucking protein shake or something

>/fitlit/
>not /clit/
you had one job hiro

>>13095
Wrong. The poor consume what is readily available to them and their communities. They have as little say as a corporation allows them. Are members of their own commnities allowed to produce what they want? No, they get stiff-armed by the mogul with five subsidiaries under his belt. Shut your ignorant mouth. Small business are out-competed and bought out when they show promise.

Or what about how brand names get so big that they build what is essentially a trade empire, dotting every country with their restaurants, every pocket with their products, etc.

What abot how agricultural corporations that "dabble" in gene maniplation have patents on SEEDS, and when these seeds propagate in independent land-owning farmers, the corp suddenly has the right to lay claim to his land?

Shut your ignorant fucking mouth. This society is centered around consumption. Frivolities like music taste or what kind of videogame you just so happen to CHOOSE over another don't mean shit.

>>13067
Are you admitting that you can't fucking read?

>>11979

Fuck off lumpenproletariat

>>11979
Material communism is pointless nowadays my man. I work a brainless dildo job and I can literally buy anything I want.

What is necessary for the 21st century is sexual communism. Seize the means of reproduction!

>>13323

congrats on pointing out flaws in a system, such things will always exist. Pretending a far more flawed ideology like communism is the solution is moronic.

>>11979
fuck off gains goblin

>>13357
>Seize the means of reproduction!
This anon knows whats going on.

>>13382
nah dude it'll work out this time just let us try this benevolent socialist dictatorship once more buddy I swear it'll dissolve into communism for sure

>>13125
As soon as you have domesticated animals, you have capitalism.

Enjoy playing grabeeass in the woods with your Paleolithic manlet buddies. Pastoral bros will raze ur mudhuts and enslave you lol.

>>13382
>Pretending a far more flawed ideology like communism is the solution is moronic.

Where in my post did I claim such. I'm not some dichotimizing faggot like you.

>>13125
Where in my post did I say anything about human nature retard
Not to mention tribal societies have absolutely no means of production and a tribal leader wasn't always as kind as the native Americans that got wiped out because of how shitty their dumb system was

>>12549
>brainlet thinks liberals and Leftists are the same thing
/pol/ has brainwashed you. The people you hate actually CENTRISTS. They pretend to Leftist as a marketing tactic. The United States does not have ANY Leftists political parties with any real presence.

>>11979
QUALITY post. Just as /fit/ exercises the body and /lit/ exercises the mind, the /proletariat/ exercise the means of production.

Reminder that real Commies are not SJW and /fit/ are brainlet retards

Liberals are into trannies
Leftists are into trannies and pedos.

Now you know the difference.

>>13495

capitalism and communism are degrees of centralized control over the means of production. It literally is a dichotomy you moron.

Reminder that /fit/ is a left wing board, like most of the boards on 4chan. It's only /pol/ that gives us a bad name. We stand for economic fairness, compassion, scientific truth and equality.

>>13607
>communism
>centralized control

>>13632
>scientific equality

Kek

>>12549
>/fit/ is right-wing
>>>/mlpol/
/fit/ isn't anything politically, although at times ot can be tediously egalitarian
>we're all gonna make it

>>13570
Real commies are much worse than liberals.

Liberals are misguided idealists.

Commies want to violently dismantle society.

I'd take a pink-haired faggot any day over a psychopath with an AK47.

>>13632
Scientific truth

PICK YOUR OWN GENDER

TAXES DON'T HURT THE ECONOMY

EVOLUTION ISN'T REAL, ABOS ARE JUST AS COMPLEX AND INTELLIGENT AS OTHER RACES

Lmao scientific my ass. Only facts you guys are right about is climate change.

>>13771
Anarcho Communist Kurds with AK 47s are defending Western freedom right now while you moan about Hillary and Trump ad nauseum.

>>13823
>Anarcho Communist

Are you functionally retarded?

>>12895
Dude, you're the burgoise just by knowing how to spell it

>>13803
>Climate change
Debatable

>>13803
>confirmed for having never read any leftist scholar, economist, or philosopher and just goes by what his favorite youtubers and /pol/memes say :^)

okay MAYBE you read the wikipedia pages, maybe.

Daily reminder there is one single autistic longwinded marxist on this board constantly trying to shill his shit ideology and attempting to spread his cancer at any opportunity he can. He's also the guy who tries to shill his version of the /lit/ guide to philosophy. Don't fall for his marxist commie tricks.

>>11979

communism is slavery of the individual

Kill yourself commie scum

>>13771
Liberals aren't idealists, they're fucking spineless cucks who think that preserving the status quo is the most important thing, despite the fact that it's blatantly failing. They're morons who think that real equality is paying Jennifer Lawrence more because she doesn't earn enough millions compared to Christian Bale, who see Lena Dunham and fucking Oprah endorse their presidential candidate and can't understand why no one voted for her outside of the coastal states.

>>13918
>Max Stirner
Ayn Rand on steriods

>>12871
Capitalism is the process by which all productive activity becomes totally alienated to foreign imperatives and subject to alien forces... in lower stages of independent petty-commodity production this is obviously blurred by a high degree of competition amongst independent producers but the later development of large scale corporate share-capital is the beginnings of the objective development of socialism in actual history. I suppose "monoculture" just means "globalism" but capitalistic rationality applied to say agricultural production obviously leads to monocultural results and drops in crop diversity ( e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwl012o8P7I )
"The motivation to produce" under communism would require a serious theory of production of a communistic sort that you would have to be posit within actual history (e.g. it would be different before the emergence of class society as a result of the emergence of agriculture and the collapse of early primitive hunter gather tribes or some form of techno-futurist end result of capitalistic development). Communist production would mean total dealienation of the productive imperatives.
Anyways that's besides the point... any deep concern about "muh individuality" should lead to some sort of Stirnian egoism instead of support for liberalism and capitalism.

>>13874
kek

>wants communism
>doesn't support global depopulation of the vast majority of people alive today

>>13125

>Early human culture was communist
Dogmatic Marxist twat detected

>I kill deer
>Someone tries to steal deer
>I protect my property from whoever is trying to take it from me

Collectivism, communal ownership, communism's basic tenets BTFO

MARXIST KEKS FUCK OFF AND DIE

>>13963

>everything I don't like is a spook

but this is wrong. only morons who don't know what a spook is would do shit like that

Spooks are not necessarily a negative thing either. Stirner was simply commenting on the nature of social constructs such as governments and borders. He did however, discourage the fact that people tend to see these things as concrete, external existences when in fact they only exist in the minds of mankind.

morality for example. is simply a group of opinions that one forms over the course of their life. People like to think that there is somehow some sort of objective, concrete, moral system when the very nature of morality is subjective.

The only good commie is a dead commie

>>13803
Still confusing liberalism (capitalism) and its identity politics with anti-capitalist leftism whew stop doing this to yourself

>>14139
Identity politics and all liberalism of today is just a soft form of communism.

>>14122
also this

communism doesn't work on even the most basic of levels

property will always exist and people will always act in there own self interest.

>>13803
>PICK YOUR OWN GENDER
If you want to cut off your dick go for it

>TAXES DON'T HURT THE ECONOMY
Most profits today wouldn't even exist before taxation. Businesses like Lockheed Martin and Wal-Mart can only realize profits thanks to government transfer payments. Remember all state policy is just different means to counteract the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_liberalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit_to_fall

>EVOLUTION ISN'T REAL, ABOS ARE JUST AS COMPLEX AND INTELLIGENT AS OTHER RACES
Good, expose yourself as a full stormdurp schooled in 19th century race science and Pioneer Fund published pseudo-Science instead of serious modern peer-reviewed science based on modern genomics

>>13539
What I this /pol/ you speak of?
I've heard old stories about it, but I've never seen it myself.
I heard it's what >>>/mlpol/ used to be, but I'm not so sure...

>>14139
Not him but not being SJW doesn't mean your ideology isn't fucking stupid on every possible level

>>14122
That's some real clear insight into palaeolithic tribal societies right there, you'll make a great ethnologist

>>14122
Humans have always been 100% collectivist. The difference is that when early modern humans did things like hunted (and they did so in groups) they didn't have illusions about the necessity of their community in carrying out that activity, whereas in the present they are so deluded into thinking that they stand alone within this incredible circulation of commodities called our global economy that they spend their lives on the internet trying and failing to convince themselves it's true. Even though it's against their own interests.

>>14156
>all capitalism is just a soft form of communism

>>14295
What a retarded post

>>14305
Yes your post was retarded

>>14334
That wasn't my post that you responded to though
Nice try at sounding clever though

>>12766
>>12871
To be fair I would say that globalism free trade supports monoculture. These are capitalism to the nth degree.

>>13071
Yeah rich people are soft. They avoid conflict at all costs. We have numales because of wealth. The poor become the edgy, violent wings of the right and left.

>>11979
>gym offers sauna, massage and physical therapists to stay competitive

thats breddy gud and defo beats communistic public exercise parks

>>14295
If you want to read the entire thing

http://www.counter-currents.com/2012/05/marxism-and-the-frankfurt-school/

>>12008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SioPbKVEoiY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_at_the_Olympics

>Sharing your means of production

May as well just let anyone fuck your wife too

Marx was a cuck

Look at all these pseudo-intellectuals trying to defend communism. Name one country where communism is successful.

>>14522
Communism, much like libertarianism, is an ideology based on pure theory; and more often than not theorized by people with very little to no life experience (which explains why both sides of the spectrum appeal mainly to young and naive people).

The problem with communism and any other highly theoretical ideology is that it is counter propositional to what man is and to what nature is.

>>14522
the Soviet Union.

>>13218
P R O J E C T I N G

why the fuck do I see commies on my /fit/?

>telling people who depend on the market to buy proteins and steroids to adopt an ideology that will lead to mass shortages

Intellectuals don't mind living in a socialist shithole because they don't derive their status from the market anyway. It's not the same with /fit/.

>>11979

>>14686
>>telling people who depend on the market to buy proteins and steroids to adopt an ideology that will lead to mass shortages

Nothing wrong with that. Production should be geared towards more useful, necessary items and distribution should be rationed.

>>14725
Why don't you move to Venezuela and live according to your ideals?

>>13839
You have access to google bud, use it.

>>14585
This is sarcasm right?

>>14725
>Government should control how much shit I can have
Wew

>>14787
I can't speak Spanish, don't have the money or luxury of moving abroad, and Venezuela will likely suffer a US coup or invasion in the near future.

>>14828
Better a socialist government controlling people's lives than the whims of capitalists and the market.

>>14822
They did manage to fuck the US for a few decades, despite being poor af.

Where they got fucked was not having the market options of China.

Ok can someone explain what "means of production" actually is? Would a gym facility actually be considered a means of production? Along with weights? Clothes? When communists say they want to "take back the means of production", what do they actually want to take?

>>14522
Nazi Germany

>>14833
It's also a poor shithole just like all socialist places
No bueno joto

>>14833
>A marxist is too poor to live abroad.

Makes sense.

>>11979

>>14850
Then why don't we see mass migrations to socialist countries, instead of the opposite?

I mean, what other kind of country had to build a wall to prevent people from leaving?

>>11979
But if I seize the means of production, don't I become the capitalist?

>>14850
Those are some crazy mental gymnastics you have to do to believe that. Name one functioning socialist country.

>>14871
>person disenfranchised under the current system wants to change it

truly stunning

>>14467
>/fraud/
also being the toy of the party isn't anything to be proud of

>tfw the government redistributes your gains

>>11979

Name literally one single advantage to a communist state that a highly regulated capitalist society wouldn't have.

>But muh wages

Regulation can guarantee inflation adjusted livable wages

>But muh exploitation

Again, regulations can prevent this.

>HOMELESS PEOPLE

And again, regulations and minimum income can solve this problem.

>>14957
Not him but being the toy of the party is better than not being at the party
It's not like women are good for anything but being fucktoys anyways

FUCK OFF COMMIE

>unironic communistposting

holy fucking kek. I wish it was required for every retard "antifa" shitposter to attach an image of themselves to their posts.

You are children who have no idea how businesses run or how the economy works. t. MBA student

>>14943
Why do you want to ruin it for the rest of us just because you're poor? I'm doing great under this "evil capitalism."

>>14943
Get up and work you lazy nigger

>>14859
In Marx's time shit was being produced in factories. These were objects made by a mix of man and machine, often as machines "improved" this meant the workers had to do insane levels of work to keep up, but without their wages ever rising for that extra production.

For a factory to operate you had to have what we now commonly call the capital: the equipment and land and facilities to produce items. This is typically also the means of production. However, on the other hand you also need people to work the machines. Workers at the time were regularly paid as little as possible due to market competition, with the limit to how low pay could go defined by the price of the food and shelter needed for them to continue living. Seizing the means of production as such is also about gaining a fair price for the work you do. If you produce more value you ought to be paid more.

>>14971

thats actually not a bad metaphor for communism/socialism. imagine working really hard to get fit and develop some nice muscle, and then someone says "you never would have all this muscle if it weren't for the food/water/tools provided, so we're going to take some of it"

It would obviously seem like bullshit. The concept of re-distributing effort and ownership is blatantly perverse.

>hey guys socialism is awesome!

>what about Venezuela?

>THAT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE *autistic screeching*

>>14859
All the buildings and facilities within the nation owned by private individuals and corporations that contribute to the GDP

So a gym and all the equipment would be appropriated and the profits equally distributed amongst its workers

>>14943
Shut up, you're probably just a student, not some real proletarian.

>>14943
The foul disease of communism has been responsible for at very least 100 million human deaths in the last hundred years.

You seek to impose that ideology on others.
You're not a person. You're a fucking rabid animal that needs to be exterminated.

>>14943
Communism only ends up disenfranchising everyone equally though, except for the party bigwigs. See: Cuba, the Societ Union, etc. Fidel Castro was worth hundreds of millions of dollars when he died.

>>15054
>be student and a socialist
>get told to grow up
>be a poor worker and a socialist
>get told to work harder

Reactionaries never run out of excuses it seems.

>>14999
> takes a shitload of "business" and "economics" classes
> "DUH of course communism is the worst idea ever!"

So easily manipulated.

>>14992
>this slave mentality
I meant the Communist Party/the ruling class but I think it works the same anyway
better to die free than lie a puppet

>>15028

If they didn't like working in factories owned by capitalists, why didn't they just make their own?

>>15065
>The foul disease of communism has been responsible for at very least 100 million human deaths in the last hundred years.

Shame it wasn't more.

>>15088
I thought you were talking about being /fit/

>>15072
>IT'S NOT FAIR! I STUDIED HARD FOR 8 YEARS TO GET MY ASSOCIATES DEGREE IN FEMINIST COMMUNICATION! WHY IN THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO WORK 80 WEEKS IN ORDER TO LIVE? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SEIZE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION!!!!!!!1

>>15086
>take a bunch of intersectional heiroglyphic sociology courses
>"DUH Capitalism is evil!"

glass stones shouldn't throw houses and so on

>>11979
>TFW they upped the prices on the plate dispenser for anyone listening to audiobooks.

Is it time to seize the means of gains, comrades?

>>15067
They work out net worth by brand/image most of the time. Like how much would coca cola pay him to advertise a drink type shit.

>>15072
Define hard worker, what do you do

>>15086
>takes a shitload of "feminism in action" and "how white people are evil and why we must suck migrants dicks" classes
>"Duh of course we need to give everyone money and make drug addicts feel at home!"

Fuck off degenerate.

>>15054
Students are proletarians.

You realise under our current system, executives making 200k in corporations would still be part of the proletarian mass? Those wageslaves are nothing compared to the actual barons of the 21st century

>>15072
Your poor work ethic and sub-par intelligence is not the fault of a country where you are free to pursue education and a career of your choice.

>>15159
What's wrong with legalizing weed

>>13125
The point of communal tribes is that you can effectively leave a tribe and start your own, if your tribe mates are lazy.

Modern communism would force you to pay for every lazy person in the nation, and punish you if you did not.

Tribalism should be still allowed. It loosely exists in rural areas of the world, but heaven-forbid you want to specifically build a white-only town because you want a specific type of people in your tribe.

>>15117
My point was that those dudes in the vid only had food/roids because they were being used for gratification/glorification of the gommies. People who weren't sold out were starving.

>>15007
>I'm doing great under this "evil capitalism
Maybe, but most aren't. And however good you might be doing in your middle class existence, there are still people ruling over you.

>>11979
GET THE FUCK OUT COMMIE

>>15127
Are you retarded? Fidel Castro's kids go on yacht trips in the Mediterranean. He has a private island with hunting grounds and a private restaurant.

http://www.superyachttimes.com/yacht-news/designing-for-dictators-the-yacht-life-of-fidel-castro/


Also, where do you think the Eastern European oligarchs got their billions? They were ex-communists that were stowing away cash.

>>15213
I'm more than middle class. Most people are doing way better than they would under communism anyway.

>>15203
"whites" aren't a tribe. it's a social construct stemming from the 17th century that has constantly changed (and mostly expanded) over time. 100 years ago Irish and Poles weren't considered white.

>>12549
The globalists are capitalists

/lit/ here. Wouldnt /fit/ be closer to nazis with the whole self improvment thing basically being the idea of ubermensch?

>>12008
fpbp

>>15184
Weed is truly the degenerate's drug of choice and this is coming from someone who smoked it for 6 years. Weed makes you content with being a mediocre piece of shit. Who cares if you got a C on that test or who cares if you carry out your life working as a shift manager at mcdonalds, you're "getting by."

Weed gives you an artificial sense of relaxation and accomplishment. It breeds laziness and ignorance among the masses. Not to mention a portion of people predisposed to schizophrenia are going to seriously fuck their own shit up if they abuse it for too long.

>>12549
>don't you have a LGBT history test to take or something?
It's feminist dance therapy you shitlord

>>15218
>Hillary gets millions from Goldman Sachs
>literal banana republic leader pockets a bit of cash

Castro did nothing wrong

>>15251
>closer to nazis with the whole self improvment thing basically being the idea of ubermensch

That's just an image Nazis like to project, stemming from their deep insecurity and constant double think ("we're the strongest race/nation, but we're also in mortal danger and need to fight the foreigners/jews/communists" etc)

>>15203

This is what I don't understand about communism. In reality, if you were going to have a commune where everyone worked together and shared - which is not necessarily a bad idea - wouldn't you want to be culturally homogeneous? I mean in these types of communes, they all tend to celebrate the same holidays and have similar cultural desires.

It feels like communists should be the most tribalists of all, whereas capitalists should be more globalist. And yet in our modern world the opposite is true. I don't get it., Logically, would you not expect capitalists to advocate for open borders, free trade and cultural exchange? And would you not expect socialists to be more tight-knit and protective of their communities? How did we get to the point where, in the West, socialists are most often found in cosmopolitan cities and capitalists are found in rural areas?

>>15275
>shitlord
>lord
Excuse me, did you just assume that anon's gender?

>>14199

>>15089
They were living hand to mouth at best. So no way out.

The industrial workforce in Britain and later much of the rest of Europe had been country people living on marginal land. Then when the English French wars start happening they begin to make larger farms that use all land to make food to feed troops. This disenfranchised a bunch of already poor people who became the workforce in rural factories and the larger farmsteads, who in turn became the moveable workforce in urban factories with the advent of coal. So no inheritence no money to earn no house owned etc. These guys couldn't even vote so no chance of getting a democratically elected politician to represent their views either.

>>12008
this.

>>15278
Nice argument. They both suck, but Castro took way more.

>/lit/ convinces /fit/ to become communists
>/fit/ becomes secret police and shoots /lit/

The fun thing is that this is basically the history of every single communist country.

>>11979
What do you marxists think of accelerationism?

>>15300
Communists romanticize the idea of working in communes even though Mao tried this a while back ago and it resulted in massive starvation and a massive fuckton of deaths. Your average commietard is functionally retarded with absoultely no knowledge of history. Don't waste your time engaging with them.

>>11979

>>13539
Lmao nice try commie fagget

>>15173
I've no problem working, I enjoy physical labor and helping my friends and family. But working for a boss that exploits people? Not my thing. Nor is it most people's thing, hence the enduring popularity of socialism, trade unions and co-ops for nearly 200 years

>>15218
>Also, where do you think the Eastern European oligarchs got their billions?
Russian*

And it was by a clever bit of privatisation. They gave workers no choice but to invest in companies that then raised the stock the oligarchs held. They couldn't pocket shit during soviet era really.

>>15387
>Nor is it most people's thing, hence the enduring popularity of socialism, trade unions and co-ops for nearly 200 years

This is literally a result of your average person being a mouthbreathing lazy piece of shit.

>>15387
How is he exploiting you if he pays you a decent wage?

>>15244
Many definitions change over time. Humans should not stop using terms just because that term meant something else in the 17th century.

Bro, you know, and I know, what 'whites' in modern context means. Claiming not to know is just ignorance.

You can not claim that 'whites' don't exist without doing the same for 'blacks'.

>>15420
Because he makes more than me!
It's not fair!

>tfw no class warfare

>>15387
>Popularity of socialism
>Can't name one successful socialist country

>>15420
You're attempting to make a tautology. The point is the wage is not decent.

>>15294
Not a nazi but dude you are wrong on so many levels. Neo nazis are one of the biggest examples of controlled opposition. It's also in no way double think. Just because you think you are the best doesn't mean you think you are untouchable.

>>15395
Not just Russian. Bulgarian, Romanian, etc. And they were doing this before the SU even finished collapsing. They moving money into Swiss and Austrian banks long before that. The privatisation was just the icing on the cake.

>>12008
>Can't bulk when there's no food
kek

>>15465
If the wage isn't decent then don't work there.

Oh wait, what's that? Your only skill is "shitposting on a chinese cartoon imageboard" and "crying about the bourgeois?" Guess you should have gone to trade school or gotten a worthwhile major then. Your mediocrity is not the burden of your fellow countrymen, no matter how badly you wish it was.

>>15413
That's the elitist explanation used to brush aside genuine concerns and injustices in society. It's easy to justify upholding capitalism if you see ordinary people as brainless drones who can't think for themselves and therefore get manipulated by foreign elements in society, like this >>15359 anon does. Paternalist liberals prefer fascism over communism for that reason.

>>15420
A "decent wage" is still not paying someone the full value of their labor.

>>15465
Why though? He pays your for a service and then you do that service. What's wrong with that? How is it exploitation?

>>15448
>Bro, you know, and I know, what 'whites' in modern context means.
I can't work it out. Apparently pale Americans aren't white if they speak Spanish.

If a white American has a baby with a black American, the progeny is Agrican American and not white somehow.

Shit don't make sense.

>>15300
Huh. This is actually kind of interesting to think about.

Perhaps communists can not stand to think that one commune is more successful than the neighboring commune a few miles down the road.

>>15520
At least read some Locke.

Realtalk, capitalism is the reason planet fitness exists.

Appoint bodybuilding legends to be officially fitness czars and let them dictate how the gyms would be and we would all be far better off.

I don't get why you guys say we are "exploited" by capitalists. Even if I have a pretty crappy job, I can still have an apartment and afford entertainment like video games, and it's not like I'm ever on the verge of starvation. It seems like capitalism lowers the prices for everyone. Meanwhile if there was a kind of communist takeover I feel like I would just lose what I have.

>>15554

That's really the gist of it...communists (and many leftists in general) have a deep hatred for strength, ability and achievement. They have a freakish desire to destroy it. They can't stand it when someone achieves something great on their own.

>>15566
So you're just gonna brush me off?

This isn't the 1800's anymore when people were paid slave wages and had to work 14 hour days.

>>15623
That's because your average communist was the retarded furry porn drawing fat kid who always was a target during dodgeball. Communism is an ideology birthed from a complex related to personal inability.

>>15300
>It feels like communists should be the most tribalists of all, whereas capitalists should be more globalist.
That is how it is outside of the US. Left wing labour parties have organised on an international level, that partially explains certain more international seeming tendencies. But if you think Brexit is an isolationist move it isn't. EU membership was regionalist with the moderate protectionism that comes with it. Brexit means needing immigration and trade from the whole world, it's globalist af.

In the US you can make the argument that it's such a large country amd the economy works differently, but really your shits just all retarded.

>>15623
>someone achieves something great on their own.

What achievements in the history of humanity have ever been achieved without building on the work of those who came before, and those who worked alongside the supposed individualistic achievers? The idea of the supreme individual is a fantasy. All humans are reliant on others, unless you want to be a hermit living in a mountain cave. Without the farmer, the doctor, the driver, the teacher, the cook to help someone along the way, who could achieve anything on their own?

>>15649
I'm a communist and I've always played and been good at sport. I can't stand fatties.

>>15641
M8, if you can't talk about ideas of ownership and fairness I ain't gonna school you on them. Look into it yourself if you're interested, you really at bare minimum need Locke. You're capable of it.

Similarly I will not lift on your behalf or diet on your behalf. Do some stuff yourself.

Read the communist manifesto

>>15697
What part of the spectrum are you on? What do you do for a living?
Inb4
>supreme autist
>collector of autism bux and mommy's tendies

>>15711
Pretty sure I don't need to read Locke to decide what's fair or not regarding wages and ownership. It's common sense really.

>>15674

That's why capitalism is about VOLUNTARY cooperating and mutually beneficial deals

communists hate it when people voluntarily combine their talents to do great things for themselves. Besides, communists tend to vastly over-state the contributions by other people. Building in a great building wouldn't be possible without the guys pounding in nails, but they're a lot more replaceable than the architect. This is why the architect gets paid more, because they're not as replaceable. And yet communists are stupid enough to think that everyone is equally valuable to a project.

>>15768
In capitalism everything is replaceable.

>>11979
>dude like everything is determined by the environment
>dude like value is determined by labor
>dude like revolutions are going to happen soon
And people still believe that idiot was right.

fuck off /leftypol/

http://youtu.be/XGzCVo_9Olw
http://youtu.be/RDj84NpBs2I

>>15674
I guess the Wright brothers should thank the cook they bought food from for inventing the airplane.

Look, obviously we don't exist in a vacuum, and the Wright brothers probably did build up on the incremental accomplishments of past inventors, but they're the ones that acheived the end result. Now is saying that you have to do EVERYTHING by yourseld as some supreme individual.

Imagine working from being a 45kg weakling to a 90kg 5% BF monster. You spent years of dedication and hard work in the gym pursuing your goal body. You made countless sacrifices and invested an ungodly amount of time and resources in order to get where you are. Then all of the sudden some fatass comes up to you crying about how it isn't fair and that you were only able to achieve your gains via exploiting others. He then demands that you equally distribute your gains amongst your gym or else face being hung in the gulags. This is the basic foundation of communism.

>>15822
>Now

I mean no one

Get lost leftys. /fit/ is about constant self improvement and that's why we are fascists.

>>15822
And then you realize a Frenchman beat them to the punch anyways.

>>15789
>People shouldn't strive to be the best they can

>>15852
That's a different argument.

>>15768
>communists hate it when people voluntarily combine their talents to do great things for themselves

I've no problem with that. But voluntary actions are not possible under capitalism, because the system of wage labour is inherently coercive and relies on a small minority of private property owners extracting profit from the toiling masses. The system is inherently unequal and whatever "voluntary" actions are taken will always be on the capitalist's terms. That's why unions know strength is in numbers. It's the only way to counteract the socioeconomic advantage capitalists possess by being part of the tiny elite.

>>11979
Doesn't planet fitness already exist? Do we really need another totalitarian system in place?

>>15528
You are thinking too literally. You are trying to be intellectual, but it's mostly coming off as ignorance of modern social groups.

If I asked people to pick out the 'blacks', the 'whites', the 'asians', the 'spanish', from this picture, no one would be asking what languages they speak, or what color one of their parents were.

Except the communists want everyone to be equal, even when there are many evolutionary differences between tribes. So the communists break down social definitions to convince people like you that commonly understood terms are useless in modern society.

>>15885
>because the system of wage labour is inherently coercive
Nope.

>>15843
I love this image fascists try to project of them being ubermenschen, Delusional social darwinism to distract yourselves from the world's issues.

>>15822

This is why I hate socialists....They are generally weak people so they always like to think they played a part. "I delivered lunch to scientists, I clearly played a part in their major scientific breakthroughs and thus I deserve credit"

This is why socialist language is always "You didn't build that on your own". Now technically that kind of thing is true, but they drastically overstate the contribution of the average person to achievements or innovations. They like to think that THEY are partly responsible for the great things their society has achieved, when in reality most great things in this world are done by a very small minority.

Is it commie bashing time?

>>15921
Classcuck.

>>15931
I'm not a nazi but whatever

IF IT'S NOT WHITE IT'S NOT RIGHT

>>15789
>Modern subsidized University system creates large pool of qualified architects with a mountain of Jew bank debt, but lower return on investment due to hyper competition and replacebility with another degreed individual.
This checks out. Every system has perverse incentives that must be continually monitored and balanced or else everything else will decay. Communism obviously decayed, but capitalism too is in an obvious downhill slide atm

My dad grew up dirt poor in a third world country. Had to work with his dad as a carpenter starting at the age of 7. Roughly 43 years later he's wealthy enough to own a yacht and build his dream house because of his own hard work. Thank you capitalism.

>>15931
>>15874

say it with me lads

BETTER

DEAD

THAN

RED

>>15983
the main supporters of communism on the internet are white, spoiled 18 year olds living in sheltered white neighborhoods and has never worked a single day in their life

Refresh my memory, how many times has communism not ended in the death of millions? I forget.

>>16028
>the main supporters of communism on the internet are white, spoiled 18 year olds living in sheltered white neighborhoods and has never worked a single day in their life

funny, I thought communists were poor non whites >>15007 >>15009

>>15976
Nice buzzword.
There's nothing coercive about wage labor in capitalism.
Don't like you job? Find another one.
Don't like having a boss? Work independently of one or start your own activity.
Can't do the last one? Pool resources with other people like you and start a coop.
Literally all of these are valid options under capitalism.
In fact, if you lazy commies were actually serious about what spout non-stop, you would pool resources and start countless coops. But you don't, because you're just larping, you like the idea of being a political functionary of the state during socialism or some other useless parasite like that.

>>16028
Pretty much this.

>Mfw someone hangs a Soviet flag in my dorm at the 60,000 dollar a year private university that I go to

>>15583
>muh consumption and comfort
missing the point, it's about LABOUR

>Marx stresses two points: 1) in the process of work, and especially of work under the conditions of capitalism, man is estranged from his own creative powers, and 2) the objects of his own work become alien beings, and eventually rule over him, become powers independent of the producer. "The laborer exists for the process of production, and not the process of production for the laborer."

>It is believed that Marx spoke primarily of the economic exploitation of the worker, and the fact that his share of the product was not as large as it should be, or that the product should belong to him, instead of to the capitalist. But as I have shown before, the state as a capitalist, as in the Soviet Union, would not have been any more welcome to Marx than the private capitalist. He is not concerned primarily with the equalization of income. He is concerned with the liberation of man from a kind of work which destroys his individuality, which transforms him into a thing, and which makes him into the slave of things.

>"Within the capitalist system all methods for raising the social productiveness of labor are brought about at the cost of the individual laborer; all means for the development of production transform themselves into means of domination over, and exploitation of, the producers; they mutilate the laborer into a fragment of a man, degrade him to the level of an appendage of a machine, destroy every remnant of charm in his work and turn it into a hated toil; they estrange from him the intellectual potentialities of the labor process in the same proportion as science is incorporated in it as an independent power."

https://www.marxists.org/archive/fromm/works/1961/man/ch05.htm

>>15294
>constant double think ("we're the strongest race/nation, but we're also in mortal danger and need to fight the foreigners/jews/communists" etc)
There's no double think in that, you moron. You can be the strongest one around, the others can still beat you if they team up. I'm not even a nazi but for fuck's sake, try to make decent objections.

Lefties are just poorfag NEETs that couldn't succeed in the current system so they just want free shit.

Just like how only ugly bitches subscribe to "don't need no man" feminism.

>>16075
Not him, but in the US probably 90% of them are university educated upper middle class whites with humanities degrees.

Of course it varies from country to country. In my home country they're mostly unionized taxi drivers that really don't feel like working. They live off of extortions from the government.

>>15213

>Maybe, but most aren't.

Nice projecting your failures onto everyone else. Confirmation bias anyone?

Now collect your welfare, lazy sack of shit and urine.

>>16079
>Don't like you job? Find another one.
Capitalism has never and will never provide full employment. It needs unemployed people to hold down wages.

Go tell a Spanish, Greek or Italian worker to find another job.

>>13568
I'm about to exercise my fist into your face if you don't stop being a fucking fag

>>16086
I'd rather be comfortable and "exploited" than not exploited and have the "fair value" of my labor.

I personally have a lot of respect for communist third worlders who only works all day but can barely afford anything.

the spoiled white rich upper class kids whos shilling for communism ITT can go fuck themselves though

>>16216

>spoiled white rich upper class kids whos shilling for communism

They won't be rich for long considering their idiotic financial attitude

hello

>>16216
>They're fighting for the working class without even working

Truly know the struggles of the average Joe

>>16207
>Capitalism has never and will never provide full employment. It needs unemployed people to hold down wages.
For fuck's sake, having a constant % of unemployed people doesn't mean that it's always the same people who are unemployed. And if they are, they can clearly survive without jobs, so where's the coerciveness in wage labor?
>Go tell a Spanish, Greek or Italian worker to find another job
I'm Italian, you fuck.

>>16086
The only thing I'm getting here is 'it's bad to have your identity associated to your job'.

Except, what about the days when people knew others by their professions? The baker, the carpenter, the butcher, etc. People can still thrive while having their identity connected to their means of production.

For example, Jiro is an example of a man who has given everything to his passion of being a chef. But, your idea would be to deny him that achievement, and tell him his goods are worth as much as another non-Michelin starred chef.

>>16133
Yeah, but the thing is it's just a projection of the fascist's own world views, which sees the world as a constant struggle between groups and uses conspiracies and vague mysticism/idealism to explain the world, rather than any real observation. There's a reason why fascism disdained intellectualism and has produced no good theoretical works, aside from perhaps the Futurist Manifesto, and even that was written a decade before fascism came into being.

>>16207

But those mediterranean siesta close-business-at-3PM plebs are naturally lazy and terrible workers.

Hate the losers not the game.

>>16207
They work under the table. It works like this in 3rd world countries too, Spain and Italy have big informal economies


Countries like Germany have basically zero unemployed. Even in communist countries it's impossible to employ everyone and get it below 3% or so because of a lot of factors.

>>15300

This is because in the original form of Communism it was recognized that the system would only work if the entire world was communist. That and making people dependant on unchallenged multinationals is functionally identical to making people dependant on government resources. "Owning the means of production" and "voting with your wallet" mean exactly the same thing, and they both don't work.

The fact of the matter is, if one makes their political aspirations to be focused on "which economic system is better" then they'll always run into problems down the line. The best system would be to focus on a goal rather than on the system itself. "Crossing the finishing line before fixing our broken leg" as it were. A united goal would bring together both the poor and the rich, who have both been corrupted with straight up hedonism.

For me, that goal would be to work on space exploration tech and the establishment of extra planetary colonies. It's inevitable that the world will be destroyed one day, so it's vitally important to get off this rock before then. "They lived like kings and then died" is not an epitath I want for the human race.

>>16321
Of course the exact % depends on the country really. In Gibraltar something like 1.8% of people are unemployed.

Communism will never work because it's simply based on false premises, like the Rousseaunian view of human nature, and faulty research, like immiseration thesis.

It doesn't tackle with modern political science, as derived from the works of Pareto, Michels and Mosca on the organization of political structure and the elite theory, either.

So even if you got 100% true communism, everyone living in communes and every means of production controlled by worker's councils, it would still suck, because some charismatic leadership or oligarchic conspiracy would take control over the worker's councils and they would go to war with each other.

>>16028
Please an hero

>>16311
>which sees the world as a constant struggle between groups
You mean like classes?
>and uses conspiracies and vague mysticism/idealism
You mean like patriarchy?
>rather than any real observation
You mean like marxism? Because economists today don't give a fuck about marxist theories, they're basically all neoclassical. Seems like that empiricism you're talking about doesn't support your claims.

>>16378
Go kill yourself, commie. Waste of space AND oxygen.

>>16277
>For fuck's sake, having a constant % of unemployed people doesn't mean that it's always the same people who are unemployed.

I didn't say that. Just saying that capitalism is unstable and will happily cast anyone onto the scrapheap when necessary, if the workers get too confident.

>And if they are, they can clearly survive without jobs, so where's the coerciveness in wage labor?

Welfare is a capitalist method to alleviate the inherent contradictions and crises that capitalism goes through every few years. It's no coincidence that welfare states only were created in response to rising socialist sentiment in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and then the Russian Revolution.

karl marx sleep af

Preach comrade

>>16321
>Even in communist countries it's impossible to employ everyone and get it below 3% or so because of a lot of factors
The USSR eliminated unemployment when economic planning was in place from 1928-1988.

>>12008
>Can't bulk when there's no food

>>16378

T R I G G E R E D

>>15213
You're in for a world of hurt when you realize that Communism will also have people to rule over you, only with more cruelty involved.

>tfw you see a rise in pro-Communist thought on 4chan

based

>>16448

>yay now everyone is equally poor!

>>16142
>Lefties are just poorfag NEETs that couldn't succeed in the current system so they just want free shit.
And righties are just gullible retards who will vote for whatever party is going to make the rich richer because they somehow think that "muh immigrunts!" is the reason they're getting paid shit.

>>12008
kek

>>16401
So I shouldn't be able to "cast aside" a worker that fucks up? Where I'm it's hard enough as is, even if it's their fault we have to pay them like a 2x yearly wage as as a severance.

I don't think anyone here is arguing for unfettered capitalism. I'm okay with a welfare state, I'm not okay with communism.

>>16401
How does any of that refute the point that if you don't like your job you can find another one, start a business of your own, start a coop and so on?
Again, how are you coerced?

>>16378
dont do communism, kids

>>11979
Marxist ideals can be applied to right wing thinking and understanding that there is a class conflict between the technological elite (i.e. Zuckerberg, Mark Bezos and Elon Musk) however Communism isn't a viable solution as it relies on the advancement of technology to free citizens and bring about economic equality, not realizing that the technological society is itself another form of slavery. Commies are weak chinned faggots too so there's that.

>>16455
>anyone telling me to fuck off is just offended!!

>>16469

No you're just in /lit/, the leftypol pseudo-intellectual "I am smot" echo chamber.

Also you're probably one of them stop shilling.

>>16448
>The USSR eliminated unemployment
Yeah, by criminalizing it lol

>>16448
And most of the time they were lounging around doing nothing because they had nothing to do except meet arbitrary targets. The factory runners also fudged a lot of the data to look better to higher ups. I wonder if that counts the people that were forced to work in factories too.

>>16393
>You mean like classes?
Class is a socioeconomic reality defined by your relationship to the means of production. The groups identified by fascists are usually done on the basis of vague historical myths and vague pseudoscience.
>You mean like patriarchy?
That's a system that you don't need to look hard to find evidence for. I have some issues with it myself, since it tends to be more of a feminist issue than a Marxist one.
>You mean like marxism?
Marxism is materialist, it's fundamentally against idealism.

>>16536
>not realizing that the technological society is itself another form of slavery.
The fuck are you on about?

>>14156
Nigga get your head sorted. This is so far off the truth that you don't know what words mean anymore.

Liberalism of today has filled itself to the brim with cultural marxism (which is not marxism by any proper definition) as a means of placating the radical elements into non-important means which allows them to be exploited in the grandscale globalism that is taking place.

Neo-Libs and Neo-Conservatives are two sides of the same coin in a mega-scale capitalist system where the rothschilds and rockafellers are at the top of the ownership foodchain and own almost everything.

The same thing communists (should) be attacking is the same thing you're fighting.

>yfw I spend all day on /pol

>>11979
fuck off commie scum

Surprised mods have removed this thread yet....

>>13323
You just described the problem of governmental intervention in capitalism, and not capitalism itself. If these are the issues you have a problem with, then anarcho capitalism is the answer.

>>16494

It's funny how you won't deny that you're a poorfag NEET. Pottery.

Project your failures elsewhere, scum. I am doing well.

>>16551
Fucking this

>forced to work yourself ragged
Or
>sent to gulag, forced to work yourself to death

>>14204

Actually though the scientific evidence is quite strong on this. race is real and genetically based.

What remains to be proven is whether race has distinct impacts on the formation of culture and intelligence. Specifically social outcomes as divorced from cultural and social pressures.

>>16468
Given a choice between being ruled by capitalists or communists, the choice is pretty obvious for anyone who isn't a businessman or aristocrat

>>15213
>Maybe, but most aren't

Objectively false. Its truly staggering how many people live in comfort and happiness these days. Literally billions of people.

> there are still people ruling over you.

Oh I see. Mr. snowflake here is special and so important that he is to be above everybody else!

>>16279
>'it's bad to have your identity associated to your job'.
Then you misread. Labour, for Marx, CREATES man and his identity and society.

Jiro is more alike a medieval artisan than a factory worker, as his labour is not fragmented.

>The alienation of work in man's production is much greater than it was when production was by handicraft and manufacture. "In handicrafts and manufacture, the workman makes use of a tool; in the factory the machine makes use of him. There the movements of the instrument of labor proceed from him; here it is the movement of the machines that he must follow. In manufacture, the workmen are parts of a living mechanism; in the factory we have a lifeless mechanism, independent of the workman, who becomes its mere living appendage."

>>16583

Your /lit/ mods that automatically delete anything that is slightly not left-wing had to take a break for a day.

Get out of your echo chamber and enjoy some fresh air for once.

>>14276
>Brainlet drones have no response.

Typical, brainwashed memethinking all the way down for the cronies.

>>15028
what would be a fair price for the work you do?

post your model

>>11979
Anybody that reads The Communist Manifesto without reading The Gulag Archipelago has fucked up.

https://archive.org/details/TheGulagArchipelago-Threevolumes
.t /pol/

>>12008
OMG

>>12008
Jesus.Way to kick them when they're already down and starving to death.

>>11979
prices as information etc. etc.

>>16567
>Class is a socioeconomic reality defined by your relationship to the means of production
An thede is a genetic reality defined by your relationship to allelic frequencies. See? I can do that too!
>vague pseudoscience
Marxism is a pseudoscience. The fact that you can define classed in marxism following an objective criteria doesn't mean it's actually scientific. All kinds of pseudosciences do that, they're just wrong about what they're trying to describe and predict.
>Marxism is materialist
You kinda skipped that part about economists, you know, the people who practice empiricism when it comes to the analysis of economical systems and principles, don't seem to value marxism that much. Care to explain how still believing marxism is true isn't anti-empirical at this point? And please, no conspiracies about the ebil economists who just want to prop up capitalism, or you're going to sound like a creationist.

>>16469
its just pathetic leftypol raiding

>>16670
Requiring the services of another to perform a task isn't 100% collectivism though.

>>16716
*a thede

>>16469

Communism next to Feminism and Black Lives Matter is another divide-and-conquer tactic by the real rulers of this world

>>16644
>Objectively false. Its truly staggering how many people live in comfort and happiness these days. Literally billions of people.
What comfort and happiness? It's a hollow mask of cheap consumerist crap. The first world lifestyle is literally unsustainable and will make the planet collapse unless something is done
>Oh I see. Mr. snowflake here is special and so important that he is to be above everybody else!
I don't want to be above everyone else. I simply want the injustices of the world to be corrected.

>>16643

Why don't you ask that to people that have actually experienced both communism and capitalism.

>>15065
The foul disease of capitalism is responsible for the deaths of a 100 million people over the last 15 years

>>16664
>/pol/ type post
>No book reference
>Acceptable

I expect a merge coming from /mlpol/

>>16469
Soon

>>15065
>You seek to impose that ideology on others
Hmm, sounds just like every political ideology to me

>>16767
like these people?

>>16643
Which is why people fled from west germany to east germany at every occasion.
Oh wait.

>>16782

>says the retards that think anyone that disagrees with your far left ideology must be from the /pol/ boogeyman

neck time

>>16805
>people's nostalgic opinion about a subject is superior to actual data

>>16358
>human nature
The human nature you are familiar with is that under capitalism. May I remind you that feudal ideologues denied that capitalism could catch on often due to their limited view of human nature. talk of human nature is used to deny change and deny an exploitative relationship. Marx is only utopian in that he envisions a future that is vastly better than the present.
>immiseration thesis
pick related my man
>modern political science
you're gonna have to be more specific
>charismatic leadership or oligarchic conspiracy would take control over the worker's councils and they would go to war with each other
this is certainly an obstacle, but capitalism is very unstable as well. i am not convinced that this is an inevitability.

>>11979
>influx of people who never lift/exercise with low testosterone
>suddenly the leftist posts skyrocket
REALLY MAKES YOU THINK

the ONLY /fit/ ideology of the left is accelerationism, everything else is shit

>>16730
If you require other people to survive you're clearly in a collective, aren't you?

>>16832
>Assuming I have right leaning political views

Oh boy

>>16643
By "anyone who isn't a businessman or aristocrat" you mean "anyone who actually holds a job", and your projection is pathetic. Under communism you'll be treated like dogshit while being forced to work yourself to death while the fat cats on top laugh at the idiots on the bottom, difference being with Capitalism a person on the bottom has a chance to rise up while under Communism you'll live with a boot on your head until the day you die.

Animal Farm relays this very well in that human nature always turns to greed no matter what the socioeconomics, except communism has the extraordinary trait of glorifying the mass slavery of people.

I also couldn't help but notice you backpedaled on the fact that there will be people that are on top, is your understanding of Communism so brittle that you'd throw out whatever bullshit you hear from other people in your echo chamber?

Go on and tell us why the Soviet Union failed, I'd like to hear this.

>>16874
Kek, this.

>>16839
Ah, so when they prefer capitalism to communism that's just fact, but when they prefer communism to capitalism they're brainwashed idiotic nostalgic losers who need to shut and know their place. I see.

https://www.rt.com/politics/340158-most-russians-regret-ussr-has/

>>16805
I've seen news footage of people in Russia wanting the Soviets back because they held more sway on the world stage.

When asked about how they lived they said they were more comfortable now though. This was pre sanctions of course.

>>16805
Many people in South America also consider the times under right-wing military regimes of the 1970s to be better.

Life in the periphery of the Western world, like Eastern Europe and Latin America, was better when there wasn't competition with Asia to kill our industry. It doesn't have anything to do with the specific policies.

>>11979
sorry queermos, this is an ethnically homogeneous constitutional monarchist market Hoppean brutalism board

>>16782
And they both live in fantasy worlds of imaginary species (magic ponies; aryans), it's a perfect marriage.

>>16805

Kek most people in Czech Republic's far left and communist parties are senior citizens that are in it for "muh nostalgia" than anything else.

>>16568
Technology shapes society in it's own image. Read "The Technological Society" by Jacque Ellul. Commies are deluded faggots. Capitalism has problems, chiefly massive usury on a international scale, but Communism is for dumb faggots who are intellectual plebs. Like I said, the lack of chin is distinguishing attribute of a modern commie.

>>16874
>ooga booga me strong me right wing me masculine

>>16762
>What comfort and happiness? It's a hollow mask of cheap consumerist crap.

So are you depressed or just being edgy? There's nothing hollow or fake about the comfort of my home. The food I can buy at a moment's notice. The various modes of entertainment I have at my disposal at any time. The marvelous technology that I can use to contact friends whenever I feel like it. You can call it "cheap consumerist crap" but we both know you're just trying to direct a lack of satisfaction with your own life onto things that objectively make life better, more comfortable, and happier.

Our lifestyle is clearly sustainable as we are sustaining it right now. Your claim that "the planet will collapse" is unfounded.

> I simply want the injustices of the world to be corrected.

Such a phrase is entirely meaningless in a vacuum. How do you intend to end injustice on a planet that is filled with creatures predisposed to be unjust?

>>16805
Ironically, the countries with stronger communist parties nowadays are Czech Republic and Russia, while Hungary has become conservative as fuck.

>>16867
>talk of human nature is used to deny change and deny an exploitative relationship
Talk of human nature is to try to explain to retarded commies things like freeloaders, horders and so on.
Btw, they're nothing exploitative about capitalism, you just think so because you follow a debunked theory of value.

>>16878

what?

>>16901

>>16839
>people's nostalgic opinion about a subject is superior to actual data designed to reflect oligarchic experience and not the actual people's experiences

Good good, yes yes, you will one day also be a millionaire my boy, just keep up the good work, heheh

>>12008
lmao

>>16901
Can't wait to see him put up against the wall after the revolution

>>16923
>unironically trying to make strength, fitness and masculinity seem like bad things
the absolute STATE of you

>>16875
No. Collectivism is giving the group priority over the invidual. It has nothing to do with the exchange of services. It's an ideological thing which can be summed up as

"It's okay to sacrifice one for the good of everyone else."

>>16888
Don't forget the effects of one institution possessing the powers of investigation, arrest, prosecution, sentencing, and incarceration with no oversight.

>>13839
>

>>16469
the rule of counter-culture

>>16905

Also old people welfare. Makes sense because communism appeals most to those that don't work.

>>16928

Communist parties in Czech Republic are strongest in the rural areas while right ring is stronger among younger population in cities. It's a paradox.

>>16958
>empiric data is inferior to feels
But someone just told me marxism is empirical!
Also, why would I care about becoming a millionaire?
Basically anything but being a bum is better in a capitalist society than a socialist one lol

>>16899
>Many people in South America also consider the times under right-wing military regimes of the 1970s to be better.
Gonna need some proof of this.
>Life in the periphery of the Western world, like Eastern Europe and Latin America, was better when there wasn't competition with Asia to kill our industry. It doesn't have anything to do with the specific policies.
Communism prioritised industry, unlike modern capitalist states, which just outsource everything

>>16657
I see what you are saying, but I can't take your follow-up argument seriously, now that you are providing quotes saying 'machines are bad'.

You can still have artisan producers with machines.

And the catch is, that not every human has the capacity to be an artisan, thus, we need people without talent, but with stamina and hard-work, to be working in factories.

Except communists would deny that some individuals are more talented at production, and other individuals have other priorities, and do not mind playing a supporting role.

>>16980

>>16985
Strength and fitness are fine. I just find it cringeworthy when people trying to put on a mask of toughness and appeal to laughably vague and eternally changing concepts like masculinity to justify political views.

>>17023
Latin American here. The old timers in my family feel nostalgic about Trujillo because crime wasn't as common.

>>16980
>after the revolution
says increasingly nervous man for the twelfth time this year

>>16980
Yeah, the revolution, it's totally happening, like all the other times it happened in a first world country.

>>17004
You mean like every single capitalist state ever?

I wonder how big the average bicep is in this thread.

>>16958

>Hard work won't make me successful

Well you sure won't be making any successes with your defeatist attitude, communist NEET boy.

>mfw all the things /pol/ hate is a product of liberalism and capitalism

>>16867
>The human nature you are familiar with is that under capitalism.

Nope. Modern archeology has shown us that pre-capitalist, and even pre-agricultural societies, had mass violence too, and contrary to the entirety of Marxist theory, even religion.

>May I remind you that feudal ideologues denied that capitalism could catch on often due to their limited view of human nature.

What feudal ideologues? Reactionary criticisms of capitalism were mostly focused on the its alienating aspects, not in the fact that it wouldn't work.

>pick related my man

Your pic related shows that class polarization has increased in the Western world since the 1970s, which is exactly when deindustrialization began. Marx believed that immiseration and the polarization of society would be a result of industrialization, which is the opposite of what happened.

Your pic actually proves Marx wrong.

>you're gonna have to be more specific

Just read Robert Michels, "Political Parties", and come back believing that worker's councils can be actually democratic bodies different from anything that exist nowadays.

>>16958
>Implying Communism won't have people shitting on you from the top

The cognitive dissonance from you lefties is astounding

>>17053
Rewind 100 years and I'm sure Nicky said the same thing :^)

>>17075
Facists are anti-liberal and anti-capitalism too, but we also despise communism

>>17061

He said with no oversight. Are you buttblasted by your country's legal system because the cops arrested you for trying to steal from "muh rich people" again?

>>17063
yeah, the right wing skellies must be ready to burst with anger

>>17051
>>17023

Also my dad and mom like Balaguer, who was Trujillo-lite, because he built most pf our infrastructure. He also murdered communists and suspected communists. Many other people feel this way.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing.

>>17023
>Gonna need some proof of this.

No one goes around asking this question because no one wants to hear the answers, I can only talk about anedoctal evidence, people in my family all talk nostalgic about the military regime of the 1970s because there weren't so many criminals on the streets etc.

>Communism prioritised industry, unlike modern capitalist states, which just outsource everything

Well, the point is that military regimes, at least in Brazil, prioritised industry too. Guys like Pinochet were an exception.

>>17086
Wanna bet?

>>17050
got to be honest though leftism in the west is so deeply infected with liberalism that it naturally attracts some pretty effeminate people
>ooooh communism is so tolerant and progressive! they would really value my women's studies degree in the ussr
The situation is probably different in other places, but in the west leftist politics has been thoroughly subverted and damaged by neoliberals who want nothing more than easier exploitation of labour. I am, i suppose, a leftist in the vein of clement attlee. But I have nothing in common with the modern left.

>>16958
um sweetie...

>mfw /lit/ pseudo intellectuals don't even read enough to realize Communism is shit

>>14459
>frankfurt school being anything but bastardized idealism
>frankfurt school being anything resembling the modern identity politics

>>16082
>tfw I'm a full left commie, but I'm at this 60000 a year private uni on a full scholarship
Feels good not to be a cuck like all you faggots. This is why you gotta read, especially Marx

>>17075
a lot of people on /pol/ like nazbol and dugin, ya dummy
>>17086
yes and something tells me the bolsheviks 100 years ago were doing a little bit more than posting le epic communist pepes :^)

>>17150
Most well-read intellectuals are actually communist because communist benefits them.

Mao and Stalin were intellectuals, Pol Pot was educated at Sorbonne. Communism, analysed objectively, is basically a theocratic form of government where the priestly caste of Marxism holds absolute power.

>>17174
Becoming a Marxist would be cucking myself though.

>>17061
As I said before, if you read Marx without reading Solzhenitsen then you fucked up. All you are doing is volunteering for the first trip to the gulags.

>>17177
Dude why did you crop the image. The last response was so great.

>>16980
be careful!

>>12090
no, literally did not work a single day of his life because he was ridden with physical misalignments/illnesses

thus from the mind of a diseased animal The Communist Manifesto was born.

>>17179

Have you read any communist literature? Even Das Kapital?

>>17174

>not knowing that tuitions skyrocketed because The government is giving more financial aid and scholarships.

>Not knowing that schools raise tuitions because they know the government will use our tax money to pay for it

Inefficiency and corruption of welfare states 101

>>17199
haha that was the only image of it i've seen, did it continue?

>>17177
>yes and something tells me the bolsheviks 100 years ago were doing a little bit more than posting le epic communist pepes :^)

Plenty of communists are waging war around the world as we speak, and organising in every country. Even in America, the reactionary belly of the beast, socialist parties have rocketed in growth since Trump was elected. Class consciousness is rising.

>>17179
pic related is Pareto you fucktard

>>17174
Lmao, I already BTFO you, >>16907 &
>>16536 here.
>when your hubris is so big it prevents you from reading the same intellectuals you claim to admire

You are the bourgeoise! Refute your own technological enslavement plebeian.

>>17174

>says the pleb arts major

>>17132
Further proof that the petty bourgeoisie is the most reactionary class.

>>17229
Yep, a guy replies to the "being strong is right wing" guy with this
>The concept of 'physical health', 'beauty' and body 'strength' is oppressive anyway. It implies some people are physically superior and others inferior based on arbitrary standards and social constructs.We're all valuable and equal as human beings.
I'm not kidding
reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/4pzglc/multiple_stabbings_reported_at_neonazi_event_in/d4s7vvx/?context=3

>>12549
>individualist
you could have stand a chance defending /fit/ if you didn't throw around big words you can't comprehend

maybe you should pick up Free Will by Sam Harris. it's a cute little book that explains to you why you're so dumb and Voila! paradigm shift!

>>17253
I know, the pic of Robespierre merely ilustrates the point.

>>17216
I'm sure he's read what other people have had to say after they "read" Das Kapital. Literally negative knowledge, purposely choosing the secondary source; especially so if ignorant about the over 200 million deaths directly attributable to the implementation of Communist Ideologies

>>17232
>socialist parties have rocketed in growth since Trump was elected
THIS is what i mean about leftism in the west being infected by liberalism
you FINALLY have a president who is telling multinational corporate bosses "no you can't just fuck us like that, you can't just ship jobs overseas and import cheap labour en masse". A president getting you out of the TPP. And you fucks are angry at him because what, he said mean things? Pathetic. Fuck off to the EU if that's your idea of "class conciousness". You're a rich cunt who doesn't give a shit about the working class.

>>17229
By the way, next time a commie says "I don't think everyone is completely equal, I'm only against economical inequalities, just link them this shit >>17269
Commies are so mentally ill they want every standard abolished because it's oppressive to them.

>>17216
Why should I head communist literature to understand what is communism, and not communist history.

Do you read Robert Filmer's "Patriarcha" when you study absolute monarchy? Or Giovani Gentile when studying fascism?

>>17232
>Class consciousness is growing.
The same working class that elected Trump in the rust belt? The modern left are the slaves of the same bourgeoisie they espouse to hate. Mass Plebetudes in this thread.

>>17292
Trump is a reactionary using leftist terminology, nothing new in that regard. His plans to bring back jobs involve gutting working standards and wages, dividing the working class, ramping up police repression, continuing involvement in imperialism (see the Yemen raid launched just a week into his presidency) and encouraging pollution and anti-environment practices, which will hit the poorest communities who cannot afford to move or insulate themselves the hardest.

>>16688
>The Communist Manifesto
>not Das Kapital
What are you, some kind of baby, anon?

>>17316
>The same working class that elected Trump in the rust belt?
A liberal myth to cover for the actual Trump voters.

https://newrepublic.com/article/138754/blame-trumps-victory-college-educated-whites-not-working-class

>>17267
what does that even mean

>>17316
Race consiousness is rising. Class warfare does not exist in America as we are definitively classless. The thesis ideal of the founding was to create a state where prosperity was earned directly through merit: total economic and social mobility.

Marxism in the states is constructed to fracture E. Pluribus Unum into multiculturalism which can then be exploited by revolutionaries. The simple counter is to embrace your brothers and sisters and revel in their hard won success. Venerate ambition, and inspire it in others. America is magic.

>>17311

Are you afraid that you would be converted to Communism if you read Marx?

>>17363
It makes me a hero trying to save the babies from the maw if the communist monster. It is never sated.

>>17352
>reactionary
going to have to ask you to stop using words you don't understand, friend. Every time you say "reactionary" it's blatant you've read about 2 pages of the communist manifesto and left it at that. There are no legitimately reactionary forces in modern politics.
>dividing the working class
literally how, he overwhelmingly united the working class in a way we haven't seen for decades
>continuing involvement in imperialism
I will admit this is a huge disappointment to me. However, he will be scaling down involvement in conflicts such as syria
>anti-environment
Getting out of the TPP is the single best thing possible for the environment that the government can implement. Think about it, it's a choice between manufacturing in china where there are virtually NO manufacturing standards, or manufacturing in america where companies at least have to meet certain criteria. Also, the fact that central americans have a far lower consumption footprint than US citizens, and trump's border policies are essentially preventing these people from becoming americans and therefore preventing their increased consumption. Stein would have been the best candidate, but Trump is a hell of a lot better than the rest.

>>17444
Are you afraid you would learn to recognize true evil and joyful malice if you read Solzhenitsen?

>>17444
You can read all the literature you want, it doesn't make the practice any more effective. How's Venezuela by the way?

>>17478
haha im on your side but this was the most D A M A G E D post i've ever seen

>>17444
No more than you are afraid you would be converted to absolutism if you read Jean Bodin.

>>17419
They feel squeezed between the militant working class and the big capitalists and corporations

They were the ones who put Hitler into power

>>17393
Let's not act like they weren't a big part. Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania don't flip just cause more rich people voted.

>>17435
The problem is that only Whites and a select few minorities think like that. The vast majority of nigs/spics think of America as a free meal ticket. They couldn't care less about the ideals behind it.

>>17352

>imperialism

It's called protecting our global strategic assets. If we don't assume control, someone else, like Russia and China, always will.

Grow a fucking pair, pacifist. Better to be an asshole than have someone be an asshole to us.

>>17490

Do the workers own the means of production in Venezuela? I forgot.

>>17511
so it's a good thing........

>>17527
>NOT REAL COMMUNISM
Like clockwork

>>17463
Keep in mind all the money and opportunity sacrificed by Western Civilization to stop climate change resulted in the drop of one half of one degree.
If you look at Trump's plan to restructure NAFTA, you will realize he's the greatest environmentalist since Teddy Roosevelt. Trump wants to force our bilateral trade partners to match our environmental and worker's safety regulations. Why do you think it is cheaper to manufacture overseas?

>>17435
>Class warfare does not exist in America as we are definitively classless

It's been repressed, but it's always been there. People like Eugene Debs and Fred Hampton are evidence enough of that.

>>16958
>dude, like.... don't work hard bro.... the system's rigged, its too difficult man...

>>17521
I don't care about Russia, they aren't a threat, but I think we should cut China off and our protectionist policies will probably excellerate their fall. They are going to collapse. It's about ttime too, cause they are soulless automata.

>>17561
fairly sure you're making the same point as me man, i'm saying trump is actually extremely good for the environment

>>17556

>Literally the main point of Communism revolves around this point

Do they own the means of production or not?

>real communism has never been tried because on the way to communism the economic system gets so horrifically fucked that the country collapses
ah yes, we should definitely do this but push even FURTHER in the direction of communism

>>17586
Shit, you are right indeed. I clicked the wrong post. Great post by you though.

>>17511
Not that anon...

However don't you think you're focused in on the petty bourgeois too much? They basically are the middle class at this point. Even billionaires are basically petty bourgeois at this point.

The focus is on the wrong faction. I think the power politics in Socialist/Communist is focused on the wrong part of the hierarchy. We aught to reduce the arguments down to their cores instead of arguing over petty details.

People like capitalism because they perceive the possibility of meritocracy and upward mobility in it, which is what drew me into communism in the first place. The Capitalists pretend that if it wasn't for those damn dirty globalists (big capitalist monopolies) that they could have their world back.

Socialists say capitalism is the problem that brought the issue into the fore in the first place. Which is true, but could theoretically be resolved through restrained capitalism rather than out and out communism which doesn't have a great track record.

Isn't the real question; how do we build a meritocracy with upward mobility that doesn't create a trend of consolidating power and wealth into the smallest number of hands?