/lit/ - Literature

Preussentum und Sozialismus by Oswald Spengler.

>>15056201
Are you a billionaire?

This one. Dogmatic socialism that treats socialism like a religion is cancer.

>>15056201
Start by getting a job

>>15056218
ideology is just religion for the godless.

>>15056201
You aren't a socialist.

>>15056230
I think that would make him like socialism more. The way managers oppress wagies and all that.

>>15056236
Not me. I realized that socialism would never be as efficient as capitalism. People are lazy and if you pander to these kinds of people, nothing will ever get done. That's why you need need bosses. Some people need to be told what to do. Otherwise, they'd just watch Youtube all day on his smartphone.

>>15056201
Ask your daddy to buy you The Art of the Deal for your 12th birthday. Keep being critical, kid

>>15056201
hayek - road to serfdom

Von Mises- Socialism

>>15056329
socialism is way more efficient than capitalism. look how fuckin fast socialism transformed china and russia into superpowers after they became socialist

>>15056430
>it's another guy stretching the definition of socialism whenever it suits him
No.
>russia
Russia industrialized and became a superpower in spite of its Communist ideology. In fact, it probably hampered its potential.

>>15056230
I did get a job. That's why I want to shake socialism off my system.

>>15056430
Those two are examples of capitalist transformation of agrarian societies, not of socialism.

>>15056205
Going to be one some day. Ive got some great ideas

>>15056854
>Going to be one some day.
well I can say this isn't your brightest one

>>15056329
>people are lazy
>you need a boss to work hard

Guess how I can tell you've never worked first hand with corporate upper management?

>>15056430
Yeah and they destroyed their nature.
And you can look to France after WWII, they implemented dirigism which is basically planned economy + markets, and they lived the Trente Glorieuses of economic expansion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trente_Glorieuses

>>15056201
How did you managed to get brainwashed into socialism in this century? You haven't mistaken left liberalism for socialism, have you anon?
I'm assuming of course that you aren't a North Korean expatriate.

You can be cured of socialism but if you immersed in the best critiques from the best leftist thinkers you won't ever advocate for the current capitalist system again

>>15056201
The Histories of Shakespeare. I feel it teaches that the human soul is something more than class and politique. That politics is a bizarre and clownish thing to put your faith into and instead your faith, life, and happiness should be intertwined with your soul, for better or for worse.

>>15056430
Big lie, socialism hampered Russia they were already industrializing under the Tsar and the communist autism cost millions of lives well over a decade to get where they might've got

>>15056430
>China
>Socialism

Nice meme.

>>15056201
The best argument for capitalism is to be a capitalist. The great deception of capitalism is that you can be a capitalist, that is, believe in it, when you own nothing. The very nature of capital to accumulate, but for it to accumulate you have to have some to work with. Most people don't and have a very small chance of breaking into it. Give the average monkey $10 million to invest and half of them will end up with $100 million. Another great deception of capitalism is that it rewards intelligence and hard work; this is another ideological defense mechanism designed to pacify those who will never have a chance and will be forced to sell their labor for the rest of their miserable lives. The tiny fraction who do break into the capitalist class are the exception to the rule. Intelligence stands for less in an economic system that is inherently chaotic and stochastic and prone to disruptions and fluctuations. It is essentially about luck, money begets money, ownership begets ownership.

So my advice to you to get over your aversions to capitalism would be to become a millionaire.

>>15059074
there used to be a middle class that did pretty damn all right with nice pay and never became millionaires. they all liked the system of free enterprise. You have to sell your ass one way or another in this world, why is living in socialist bugworld any better

>>15059074
Based

>>15056201

>>15059089
Lockdown bulldozer destroying middleclass goes brrrrr

>>15059089
The problem is the dichotomy you yourself brought about, you don't need to be a collectivist nut in order to denounce the problems of capitalism

"I've been brainwashed in socialist ideology and propaganda for 11 years. What books would you guys recommend so I can shake off the socialist brainwashing?"
Oh, there's a book made just for that, I promise you... a spiritual tonic to cure you and rejuvenate you, and give you a second chance at life. Atlas Shrugged. Read it first and feel about it afterwards.

you dont know how to process information. best you can do is stop preoccuping about politics altogether

>>15056329
>People are lazy and if you pander to these kinds of people, nothing will ever get done.
Even if true, what's to be done, i mean exactly?
Oh, by the way, young retard, you've been born in the wrong era to love Capitalism. You'll see why.

>>15056201
Just watch all seasons of Shark Tank

>>15059089
>there used to be a middle class
There is no middle class. Only middle socio professional layers. There are only 2 classes. Capitalist class, and proletariat.
If you meant middle socio professional layer then sorry to disappoint you, because it's not coming back.
>>15059201
>Lockdown bulldozer destroying middleclass goes brrrrr
This. To think people don't understand what's happening. They have to enjoy this summer, because autumn will be cold.

>>15060172
no, Class as in it can throw its weight around economically. Not you dumb Marxist "layer". WHy can't it come back, do you think?

>>15056430
This is bait

>>15060215
There is two class. The owners of the means of production, and the wagies, working for the owners of the means of production. And engineer is just a high class wagie. He sells his workforce, like a bitch, to an owner of the means of production. He is proletarian.
>WHy can't it come back, do you think?
It's not what i think. But what reality is. Pic related. It's over. Unironically. A few decades left at most.

>>15060276
How do we get that to go back up? what happened between 19905 and 1911? why does it increase during the great depression and start declining like that after ww2?

>>15056371
kek

>>15060331
We don't get that back up. The more productivity increase, the more automation and mechanization increase, the more it falls.
>why does it increase during the great depression and start declining like that after ww2?
After the great depression, overproduction got destroyed by the crisis. So after overproduction (meaning: factories in excess) got destroyed, it bounced back.
During WWII, it increased obviously due to the war production, also a huge war, like WWII, destroys overproduction, not only through bankruptcies like in 1929, but literally, through bombing, and planes and boat that get destructed. It also destroyed the overproduction of humans, through war casualties. War is like destroying production, and then producing to replace the destructed production. So it increase profit.
By the way, the quarantine organized by our Capitalist elite is done just to do that: destructing overproduction through factories which will go bankrupt, then economy will start back, after the crisis. It's artificial destruction of the economy, to increase a little the rate of profit after the destruction.

You can't, there is no going back. People think there's only one redpill but really there's two. The nazpill and the bolpill.

>>15060430
Nazbol gang

>>15060331
reading this makes me sad, don't you get it, we can't. the person you're replying to said it, it's over.

>>15056329
Beyond triggering the commies ITT, sounds like you arent a socialist

>>15060430
They're just two halves of the same pill, tovarich. Broken up by the establishment and pushed as far away from one another as possible, because taking both will make you dangerous.

>>15060430
Those pill sucks, because it's State Capitalism, and State Capitalism doesn't solve the tendency of the rate of profit to fall. By the way, it will look more like 1984 and Brave new world than to Germania (city).
Only pill, abolish political economy. It's this or the new world order. Which is based around political economy by the way. Technocracy is indeed still political economy.

>>15060276
>there are two classes
>no that guy isn't what you think he is he totally fits into my two class system
>this is what commietards actually believe
yikes

>>15059089
>there used to be a middle class that did pretty damn all right with nice pay
That was back when the US was socialist, in the 50s and 60s.

>>15060480
>doesn't solve the tendency of the rate of profit to fall
Oh no, anything but that, won't somebody think of the profits?

>>15056329
So you think "socialism" means not having a supervisor? Wow, you are one dumb motherfucker.

>>15060419
>muh quarantine
oh god

>>15060419
thanks for the excellent reply. I had my suspicions about this current quarantine situation but reading something like that confirms the depressing situation. But you're saying it will bounce again, it's a question of who is positioned to profit from it.

>>15060480
(...) But theorically, even a new world order couldn't systain itself with a tendency of the rate of profit to fall. That's the light of hope. If the theory is true, even the deep State is affected by the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, and thus is getting weaker and weaker. We could be forced to have a State Capitalism new world order around 2030,-2040, but it wouldn't solve the fundamental flaws of the Capitalist mode of production, and it would collapse as well. In the end, everything that is based around political economy will collapse.

>>15060443
qualify that or go away. I won't have blatant defeatist doomer porn on my 4chan, that's why god invented youtube comments

>>15060504
>the US was socialist in the 50s and 60s

I know it's hippy-tier thinking at this point, but why do we need profit? is it just a failure of the human nature? inability of each animal to see beyond our own purview or domain? sheer spite for others? lack of ability to communicate resulting in everyone doing what they think they need to do to survive and thrive?

>>15060480
the tendency of profits to fall isn't a problem at all. it clears the lazy out of the way and rewards innovation. a system which recognized this would be a lot better than the current system, in which central bank central planners pretend they can abolish risk by pumping asset prices 10%+ a year with fake money

>>15060562
I mean he's sort of right, unions were absolutely massive and powerful and working class people had serious spine. they weren't able to be bullied so much

>>15056201
Read the Austrians. Especially Rothbard.

>>15060601
Because civilisation itself is a gigantic scam to trick other people into making you rich. To many ceasing to focus on accumulation and instead focusing on providing seems like going back to the stone age. What's the point if I'll never get a turn to be in charge?

>>15060649
Is Austria secretely Anglo?

>>15060601
What do you mean by profit? Money? Money is used to provide food and shelter for your family and to show off your status.

>>15056456
>In fact, it probably hampered its potential.
They went to space you fucking donkey

>>15060562
>massive and powerful unions
>highest tax rates
>college virtually free
>can get shot and not go $30,000 in debt

>>15060619
When the rate of ptofit is too low, Capitalism cannot renew itself, due to overproduction due to market saturation. That's why crisis, that's why final crisis one day.

>>15060712
is this what marxists actually fucking believe. the equivalent of avoiding the sun because in a few billion years it will burn out

>>15060712
Overproduction in capitalism: maximum efficiency reached. no more innovation possible. time to try something else
Overproduction in a centrally planned anti-capitalist system: stop producing anything else so you can dump the thing you overproduced on people who don't want it but they have no choice

>>15060755
The rate of profit will be too low for Capitalism to renew itself not in a few billion years, but in a few decades, at most.

>>15060778
even if this horse-shit was true, capitalism doesn't require growth. whereas rent-seekers, usurious jews, and taxmen, do

>>15060776
>Overproduction in capitalism: maximum efficiency reached. no more innovation possible. time to try something else
It's when you have reached maximum efficiency that the rate of profit decreased the most. Then, combined with market saturation, Capitalism can't renew itself.
>Overproduction in a centrally planned anti-capitalist system: stop producing anything else so you can dump the thing you overproduced on people who don't want it but they have no choice
If you produce not for profit, but according to the needs of everybody, you won't likely have overproduction. That wouldn't make sense, like in Capitalism for example, in the food industry, overproduction of food is destroyed. In a mode of production not based around profit, destruction of overproduction wouldn't make any sense.

>>15060794
>capitalism doesn't require growth
o i am laffin

>>15056201
Try and understand it more

>>15060794
Without growth, no profit. So no point. What's the point of a Capitalism without growth, so without profit? If the Capitalist mode of production was at an equilibrium, it wouldn't make profit. So what the point for the owner of the mean of production?

Fuck the economy, what about the people?

>>15060107
>you've been born in the wrong era to love Capitalism. You'll see why.
You faggots have been saying this for literal centuries. Face it, its never going to happen. You are going to grow old and die under capitalism, maybe like a fool in your last moments you will have the comfortable delusion that "the revolution will happen right after my death", but that too won't come to be.

>>15060712
how can overproduction happen in a global scale when men's wants are endless?

>>15060828
We will see. 2008 and 2020 economical crisis makes me think Capitalism is collapsing.

I think the problem I have with embracing capitalism is the same problem I have with embracing democracy: I don’t trust those who are able to gain power not to abuse it in the most retarded, zombified feeding frenzy possible, just so they can retard the ability of the next guy to achieve as much as them. Someone who is a “true” capitalist should be opposed to monopolies or concentrated wealth, they should want nothing more than the most dispersed circulation/liquidity of capital possible. and yet the the disparity of wealth is staggering, people with money simply refuse to let that money do what it is meant to do by giving it up and allowing it to circulate freely through society. Personal/individual wealth as a universal goal is the biggest fucking con we ever set ourselves.

>>15060840
If the great depression didn't even make one (1) western democratic nation socialist what makes you think these pussy ass recessions will?

>>15060837
Do you want 15 toothbrushes, 45 pair of shoes, 140 forks, 447 suits etc... Market saturation.

>>15060840
It's never going to collapse, you dumb fuck, you're supposed to revolt, not just jerk off and think it will end by itself, because it won't. That's a giant fat cope from you leftytrannies, because you don't have the balls to actually do anything.

>>15060807
>It's when you have reached maximum efficiency that the rate of profit decreased the most. Then, combined with market saturation, Capitalism can't renew itself.
other markets are available, retard. also, implying both stagnation and progress don't exist
>If you produce not for profit, but according to the needs of everybody, you won't likely have overproduction
central planners are fucking terrible at figuring out what people need, and even worse at figuring out what people want. imagine believing otherwise. just imagine believing otherwise. do you want to have a go at explaining how these production decisions will be made, what sort of committee is going to be making these decisions, and what information they will have about all future technologies and whether they will be successful?

>>15060601
for information transmission

>>15060828
Capitalism isn't going to last forever, bro. Nothing does. One thing that history has proven is that while humans are resilient as fuck economic modes are not. In the grand scheme of things feudalism only lasted for like one thousand years. For all we know we might have a long, long time of capitalism to go yet but a post-capitalist future is inevitable.

>>15060846
I never talked about socialism. It's you. Capitalism won't fall because wishful thinking, but because at one point, it cannot renew itself.

>>15060862
>Capitalism isn't going to last forever, bro.
Yeah, it always gets worse somehow.

>>15060846
uhmmmm

>>15060840
the only thing that happened in 2008 and 2020 is that the jew owned central banks got more control over the money supply. (incidentally this is something karl marx was very keen on, according to plank v of the communist manifesto). whereas capitalism, of course, is currency agnostic

>>15060872
National socialists don't count anon they are based

>>15060848
I, personally, may not want all of those, but in a aggregated way, there's always some unsatisfied needs that a larger supply of goods could attend to. If not, well, we would be living in the Garden of Eden where there are only free goods

>>15060875
Karl Marx was redpilled on the JQ.

>>15060858
>>15060854
You need to suffer more. Whatever the reason behind your Capitalism apology, whether you are unread or a paid shill, suffer under Capitalism, you will, during the next 2 decades.

>>15060840
Civilization as a whole will collapse before capitalism collapses. There are tons of safeguards in place to protect capitalism from collapse. There's a very good reason that the world revolution didn't happen during the Great Depression. Capitalist society will continue no matter what unless people get organized on a massive scale and end it themselves. I really do hope that that happens but it's anybody's guess. The far left in America hasn't exactly shown an organizational prowess in the past 40 years or so.
>>15056218
Caleb Maupin is a moron.

>>15059074
>Give the average monkey $10 million to invest and half of them will end up with $100 million

Do communists really believe this?

>>15060902
America is possibly the most counter-revolutionary country on the planet. The revolution with come from Eurasia.

>>15060893
(...) If you are paid, never forget that due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall, one day they'll cut off your allocation.

>>15060912
Based.

>>15060890
>literal communist jew
>lives on someone else's money in the capital city of the most successful empire in history
>promotes his parasitic theories to try and undermine his host
>redpilled on the JQ

>>15060893
>not thinking it will collapse makes me an apologist
I fucking told you, either pick up arms and kill the merchants or shut up with your dumb copes. If captialism will btfo itself then you don't need to tell anyone, it will just happen.

>>15060893
are your anti-capitalists Gods? tell me how production decisions will be made, what sort of committee is going to be making these decisions, and what information they will have about all future technologies and whether they will be successful

>>15060931
Yup. Karl Marx was based NEET that betrayed his own Satanic race to liberate the white proletariat.

>>15060875
Pretty much all Western countries have been on an increasingly technocratic trend since the post-war period

>>15060970
This but unironically.

https://youtu.be/Z7NkILyjV2g

>>15060961
yes

>>15060545
I think he’s arguing that it’s rather not a question of who profits from it as it’s quite obvious, however, please be wary of the opinions of anons you read on the internet as not all of them know what they’re talking about. I won’t say this anon doesn’t know what he’s talking about it all or even that he’s explicitly wrong but this falling profit model is a Marxist idea which has been challenged many many times on good grounds.

>>15060893
>EVERYONE SUFFERS UNDER CAPITALISM
>W-WHAT DO YOU MEAN IM A FAG
>NOOO YOURE NOT SUFFERING

>>15060888
yeah but it's all just a sickening waste isn't it

>>15060926
not Russia they've squandered their potential

>>15059074
>Give the average monkey $10 million to invest and half of them will end up with $100 million
Kek so why doesn’t every fag with 10k saved up turn that into 100k, 100k into a million etc. Do seething anti capitalists really believe this? Is this how you cope with the possibility that most people who are richer then you are probably smarter than you (as supported by statistics as well)

>>15060959
> If captialism will btfo itself then you don't need to tell anyone, it will just happen.
If you new a storm was coming, you can't avoid it, but you can prepare.
>kill the merchants
Kill the merchants, a few years later, other merchants took their places. How do i know you are young?
>>15060961
That's exactly what we should discuss. Unironically.
>>15060999
I'm not even arguing for the sake of being right. I don't even know if i am (right). I'm aguing so that this knowledge is in the debate. So if this scenoario happens, people will be less clueless about what is happening.

>>15060419
>>15060705
>>15060794
>>15060845
>>15060959
Gaddam this thread is full of so many economics illiterates. I guess I shouldn’t the surprised most of /lit/ get their economic opinions and knowledge either from their ass or from century old philosophers and dated economists

>>15061066
>Kill the merchants, a few years later, other merchants took their places. How do i know you are young?
I'm old enough to know the value of force, and I'm also old enough to know that being old is not something to be proud of nor something desirable. Ever since the fall of the USSR the new breed of cuckold marxists have been saying that capitalism will collapse at any moment all by itself, without anyone having to do anything. This might just be a cope, but it might also be some CIA bullshit that they push to keep people enslaved and away from taking action.

The economic troubles we face have done nothing to poke any holes at the system. What is needed is violent action against key targets to destroy the system. It wouldn't even take much, not a large force for most Western nations, yet people like you would rather fart around while larping revolutionaries.

>>15061158
>I'm old enough to know the value of force, and I'm also old enough to know that being old is not something to be proud of nor something desirable
Kek you sound 16

>>15061158
>talks about action while he sits on his ass raging on a for-profit basket weaving forum full of advertisements
>seethes against other fags online for being larping revolutionaries as he larps about being a revolutionary
Never change 4chan

>>15061169
You'll understand when you age, anon. You'll understand.

It's curious how I see no rebuttal to the argument of my post though. I guess you just gave up on posing as a marxist when faced with the fact that you don't actually plan on doing anything, just jerking off on the internet to the totally inevitable collapse of capitalism, which will surely happen this time. Modern leftists are such fags.
>>15061199
I'm not larping a revolutionary, that's the point. So I don't need retarded copes to justify sitting on my ass.

>>15061158
>This might just be a cope, but it might also be some CIA bullshit that they push to keep people enslaved and away from taking action.
CIA should read Marx. Unironically. So they would know that soon, it means budget cutting for them due to TRPF.
You don't understand that it's not the elite which creates the mode of production, but the mode of production which create the elite. The elite only exist because there is a space for them in which they can express their power. Abolish this space, and you abolish the elite.

>>15061216
>I'm not larping a revolutionary
Who said i was a revolutionary? You.

>>15061216
I’m not the anon you were replying to. I could give a fuck about socialism let alone Marxism. And I’m not seething enough against capitalism (pros of actually doing something with my life I guess kek) to care whether it eventually collapses because that is unlikely to happen any time soon and I’ll probably be dead by then anyway
>I'm not larping a revolutionary, that's the point. So I don't need retarded copes to justify sitting on my ass.
so what are you? If you’re saying kill the merchants and are saying you aren’t a larper are you trying to imply you’re secretly an anti-capitalist terrorist or something and expect us to believe you lmao or are you not even a leftist

>>15061066
>finally, the moment arrives, that marxists have been awaiting for 6 million years. every possible good is produced with maximum efficiency, every technology has been perfected
>noooo capitalism has failed we need a better system

>>15061015
huh?

Economics in one lesson by Henry Hazlitt and The Road to Serfdom by Hayek. Very accesible books.

>>15056201
pic related. just the first chapter.

>>15061738

>>15061113
post ap econ scores

>>15056329
You must be over 18 years old to post here

>>15060503
Communists don't believe that there are only two classes. You both should read Marx or even Lenin. They wrote quite a lot about the petty bourgeoisie for example, which is neither the bourgeoisie nor the proletariat.

>>15060601
We don't need profit, capital needs profit, because it is made out of profit.

>>15060712
A "final crisis" doesn't follow from this. The overabundance of capital / a low rate of profit can be overcome by a simple destruction of the "surplus" capital. This already happened on a massive scale during the two World Wars, so we can see that it doesn't necessarily have to involve the destruction of capitalism. It creates an opportunity for it, but that's it.

>>15060840
>2008 and 2020 economical crisis makes me think Capitalism is collapsing.
Capitalism won't collapse by itself. The current low level of organization of the proletarian movement shows that one shouldn't expect it to collapse very soon. If it hasn't collapsed even between 1914–1945 then you can't just deduce that it's collapsing from the 2008 and 2020 crises. That's completely retarded.

>>15056430
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

>>15056201
>I've been brainwashed in socialist ideology and propaganda for 11 years.
>He says while living in a Capitalist society inundated by Neoliberal ideology
Okay retard

>>15063126
>Capitalism won't collapse by itself.
Yes it will. At one point, profit will be too small for Capitalism to renew itself. I mean literally. At one point, buying merchandises for a Capitalist in order to increase their value through production and then make profit through sale of the product won't be possible anymore, because profit will be too small to buy new merchandises and complete the cycle. The cycle will break. First it will break in some economic sectors, then it would break as a whole.

>>15063357
based niptard

>>15063658
I already explained in my post how the overabundance of capital / low rate of profit can be remedied by capitalism without it completely destroying itself. Learn to read.

i used to think socialism was bad. then i got laid off due to coronavirus and the unemployment/trumpbux started rolling in. I'm making far more now than at my previous job while just getting drunk on nice bourbon and smoking cigars. you socialist bros are alright in my book.

>>15064877
Ever if there is a WWIII, that doesn't solve the TRPF. Production will be massively destroyed, billions of humans as well, automation and productivity will increase due to war effort, profit will increase during the war and the following years, but in the end, what will happen in exactly what happened at the end of WWI, and WWII: profit will decrease again.

>>15056329
>People are lazy and if you pander to these kinds of people, nothing will ever get done.
LMAO ultra seethe.

I guarantee your job is not productive or necessary and you are mad that your coworkers that fuck off all day and have fun while you spin your wheels at full speed and get nothing for it.

THE FUCKING COPE

Read pic related and support super-capitalism

>>15056201
I'm reading this at the moment. A 2nd generation New York Jew raised in poverty and a committed communist gets a foreign correspondence job in Moscow at the end of the NEP period, just prior to the Kulaks being liquidated. Slowly he realises socialism ain't great.

Also Eugen Richter's novella 'Pictures of the Socialistic Future', which predicted the results of 20th century communism in the 1890s

>>15056201

>>15066295
That picture is completely backwards. Only socialism can liberate man from money.

>>15065543
>but in the end, what will happen in exactly what happened at the end of WWI, and WWII: profit will decrease again.
Yes, a century later, and then the same thing can take place again. Use your head for a moment instead of just parroting your formula like a retard, because I have already shown with my first comment why you haven't provided evidence for your thesis.

>>15066656
This TRPF "formula", like you said, is the most important thing to understand what's happening, what happened, and what will happen, but clearly you don't understand it. Whether you are a business student at Harvard, or are a chief financial officer at Wall street doesn't matter. You just don't get it. Like most of the Capitalistic "elite", by the way. Try to read, if only you can. Then you can talk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendency_of_the_rate_of_profit_to_fall

>>15056329
>capitalism
>efficient

>>15060826
Well when they eat you alive you'll think about the economy.

Road to Serfdom - F A Hayek
“The Use of Knowledge in Society” -F A Hayek

>>15065179
cant wait to see you pay them back as taxes

>>15056201
Read Demons by Dostoevsky

is there a good unbiased book to understand socialism?

>>15067181
see
>>15056218
>81
>18
it was meant to be, anon. you were destined to read that book

Paul Cockshott- the Art of the Deal

>>15067181
https://www.thetricontinental.org/

Revolution 1989 by Victor Sebestyen

the story of communism falling apart in all the soviet countries. extremely well written, and makes you feel good about humanity.

>>15066843
that's a good point except i won't

>>15066295
So supercapitalism is just democratic socialism? Why didn't anyone tell Bernie?

>>15056201
Isn't it funny that what is commonly thought of as "socialism" is really the least social system?

>>15056329

>>15066295
This is really clever.

Real answer: Notes From Underground, after reading Chernyshevsky's What Is to be Done?

>>15060902
capitalism is only 300 years old

>>15068940
*industrial capitalism

>>15068950
capitalism requires capital, which isn't something you just find a pile of in a field one day

You sound like a liberal faggot. Definitely a retarded American cuck. Read Das Kapital or The Conquest of Bread. Preferably both. Then fuck off.

>>15056456
The USSR wasn't communist. Stop this meme, you chode. Having a state and having communism is impossible.

>>15069029
>up is actually down
you

>>15060643
The only unions who did anything were West Virginian miners. Americans have always and will always be authority sucking cucks.

>>15068983
And yet market exchange on the basis of traded goods has been attested to for thousands of years.
You don't need industry to produce capital. You can quite literally stumble onto a goldmine.

>>15069041
Read Lenin and suck my dick.

>>15056430
>look how fuckin fast socialism transformed china and russia into superpowers after they became socialist

72 million deaths in China and 61 million in the USSR. Wow, such progress

I always find myself agreeing with the critiques of capitalism coming from socialists, but their proposed solutions are so unbelivably cringe.

>>15069123
lmao if anyone actually believes those retarded numbers

>>15056201
In this order
Ted Kaczynski - ISAIF
Joseph Schumpeter - Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy
Fyodor Dostoevsky - Demons
Mikhail Bulgakov - The Master and Margarita

>>15066788
So you really are a braindead NPC. Got it.

>>15067181
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/

>>15068983
There was plenty of merchant capital in late medieval Italian cities.

>>15069061
Gold is not capital by nature, just like it isn't money by nature.

>>15067226
>>81
>>18
>it was meant to be, anon. you were destined to read that book
ok ok I'll read it once I find a copy

>>15069455
>So you really are a braindead NPC. Got it.
No it's you who just didn't get the TRPF. Rate of profit decrease through productivity enhancement. Even if you destroy 90% of production, you are still at the same level of technological productivity (automation, mechanization etc...). Thus, when the markets get full again, you are exactly at the same level than you were before the war. Rate of profit is not only about market saturation, but market saturation combined with productivity. At one point, the market get saturated faster and faster, and there is no more value increase, no more profit, thus Capital cannot renew itself, complete its cycle M-A-M'.
Nobody gets this. Maybe this is wrong, but imagine this is true, nobody fucking gets it. From the manual union worker, to the global financial "elite", they just don't get it. The first want to have State Capitalism, (socialism), the second a new world order, which is a technocracy. But in the end, they are both retards, believing in political economy like a retard child believe in Santa Klaus, like you belive in State socialism, not knowing it cannot be repaired, and it's close to being over.

>>15070663
>only I get it everyone else is so stupid and dumb
Get your head out of your ass and try updating your economic dogma to fit the modern financial and economic world which has grown far more complex from the time your shitty philosophy (because it certainly isn’t economics) was written.
>that first paragraph
Kek babby’s first economic philosophy

>>15070663
>Nobody gets this. Maybe this is wrong, but imagine this is true
>imagine this is true
It isn’t true and you are indeed wrong. At least it’s not true in the way your construing it and doesn’t quite have the implications you think it does. Try making your opinions on modern economy based on more than just 200yr old books

>>15069130
>lmao if anyone actually believes those retarded numbers
You’re right they’re probably much higher

>>15070682
>Get your head out of your ass and try updating your economic dogma to fit the modern financial and economic world which has grown far more complex from the time your shitty philosophy (because it certainly isn’t economics) was written.
That's an NPC answer. You say it's far more complex, but you don't say why. In reality, it's not more complex in a positive way, since there is far more financial (credit) Capital than 150 year ago, which means some of the profit is virtual.
>>15070689
>It isn’t true and you are indeed wrong. At least it’s not true in the way your construing it and doesn’t quite have the implications you think it does. Try making your opinions on modern economy based on more than just 200yr old books

Always the same rhetoric. Are you a paid shill? 2008 and 2020 financial crises tend to make it clear it's true.

>>15070864
>2008 and 2020 financial crises tend to make it clear it's true.
Evidence capitalism is self-perpetuating. I’m guessing you’ll be waiting for the collapse of capitalism for another 200 years. The fact you don’t see these things shows you’re just yet another dogmatic NPC. Go read something a bit more modern that isn’t written by a self proclaimed socialist

>>15070888
You have some balls talking like this in our time:; the beginning of the 2020 financial crisis. That's chutzpah level rethoric. Causality reversal. Blame shifting. Classic. The current crisis is caused by the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.

>>15056201
go live in Cuba (or anywhere east of Nuremberg) for a year, problem solved. No books required.

>>15056201
the only thing to cure a man of an inclination towards socialism would be elevation to a higher class

>>15056201
Don Quixote

>>15059009
You can still be fascist, even Mussolini was a commie once

>>15069082
There were already gulags when Lenin was alive. You support communism because you don't fit in with the majority of your home country, yet the irony that bolsheviks were literally majoritarians is lost on you.

>>15070888
There's no ideology more retarded than capitalism

>>15056201
go get your small piece of the cake, so you start feeling like you have something to lose by upsetting the status quo

Really brainwashed by that communist propaganda, OP.

>>15070663
>Rate of profit decrease through productivity enhancement.
And it increases through decreasing the turnover time (= increasing the monthly, yearly, etc. rate of profit), and creating brand new branches of capitalist production with initially low organic composition (e.g. fitness clubs and gyms employing a lot of personal trainers).
>like you belive in State socialism
me?

>>15072570
>fitness clubs and gyms employing a lot of personal trainers).
According to Marx, personal services for revenue aka tertiary sector, don't create value. They only eat surplus value. From an empirical point of view, it's probably true, since, like our "elite" told us, we should all bathe in tertiary sector paradise. Instead, we have constant falling rate of profit, and economical crises after economical crises.

>>15071603
To be fair, the problem is not that it's retarded or based. The problem is that it is doomed.

>>15056201
Karl Marx and the Close of His System by von Böhm-Bawerk. Much like Marx his criticism is much better than his proponed alternatives.

>>15070923
actually this is what a centrally planned market looks like. this should be your wet dream, as a communist. 2008 wasn't allowed to happen, and they're going to try and prevent 2020 as well. the "crisis" is caused by Jewish money-printers destroying the value of the currency in order to prop up the price of absolutely dog-shit assets and pretend that "gdp is going up" or whatever other meaningless measure central planners like to stroke themselves to. diligent investors are forced to drop out of the market, because its price signals can no longer be trusted, at which point the inflation tax (again, courtesy of the central banks) eats them. under capitalism these assets that the central planners keep alive would be worth nothing, and interest rates would be higher to counter-act the inflation, which would also curb the amount of debt in the system and deflate the asset bubbles, of course. but the (((media class))) shrieks that the failure of things that deserve to fail is a crisis, so we get more central planning instead. whereas capitalists who are not fucking brainlets are placing their wealth outside of the fiat system and waiting for better opportunities

>>15074443
>actually this is what a centrally planned market looks like. this should be your wet dream
Then you don't know about the true vision of Marx.
>>15074443
The post is pretty accurate, but it's not jews who decided to use a central bank. Central banking emerged from Capitalism, so profit can be made even in events like this, and because they can use fictious Capital in order to make artificial profit.
What's more, you don't understand, is that without the jews, the mode of production would have evolved to where we are now the same way. And i don't like those Jehovists myself.
By the way, central banking exists since 1694 in England, with the Bank of England, so pretty much since the beginning of Capitalism.

>>15056201
an essay by isaiah Berlin called two concepts of liberty it explains the fundamental differences in the definition of freedom used in political discussion. It explains how inherently oppressive an ideal of freedom can be if it's the desired goal.

>>15056201
Read Nietzsche.

>>15069123
nice meme, the 61 million number includes every russian killed by the nazis, including jews in the holocaust. It also takes the number of deaths in the famine in the early 30s and blows it out of proportion to an absurd degree. there only were 100 million adults in the country in stalin's era, how in god's name would that many have died? also, life expectancy rose massively over the USSR's history, which does not fit in with the wild numbers of deaths you claim.