/lit/ - Literature

Can we get some moderation around here?

>>15053976
You might be interested in the historical thought an ex-GCHQ agent called Alex Thomson. Not easy to get at his beliefs in this area for more than one reason; he gets pretty close to what you're talking about here in an interview with a ufo-chaser Ulsterman called Miles something, look up the "Bases Project". Unfortunately the cunt badly spikes the interview by interrupting Alex whenever he's about to say something really interesting, but at one point he essentially touches on what you're saying: Christian doctrine was adopted by the Roman world powers and run with

Bumpy bump; I don't expect this thread to survive now

>>15053976
>the Son of God was begotten by God the Father at a point in time" and other theological bullshit that makes no difference at all to ethics or practical doctrine?
If Jesus isn't fully God and fully human, then the Passion doesn't save us. Simple as that. We are saved only because He redeemed our fallen humanity by carrying it by his divine strength through the depths of evil and up into Heaven. Why do you think Paul talks so much about being the Body of Christ? Because it is Christ's Body that ascends into Heaven. The entire religion falls apart if that doctrine is not maintained. So it isn't just pointless theological quibbling.

>>15054076
As far as I understand it, Jesus took all of humanity's sins upon himself, then in his self-sacrifice somehow subjected himself to himself creating a closed loop that saved all of our souls forever

>>15054076
I don't think humanity needs to have been fallen all along, however; doesn't that seem like it could be something of an addition to you?

>>15053976
I dont think you understand a non-materialist mindset anon.

>>15053976
(((Abrahamism)))

>>15054212
It's almost a tautology. Are you implying something special?

>>15054101
That is penal substitution theory, which is held by the Calvinists and is one of the traditional interpretations of how precisely salvation works.
>>15054141
Maybe. I know Anabaptists tend to reject the doctrine of original sin, but most denominations don't. I myself think it is a pretty core teaching. It certainly helps to explain the ambiguity of the world, much better I think than dualisms do.

>>15054101
There is a very clear-cut, almost diagrammatical, explanation of this in The Holy Science by Swami Sri Yukteswar Giri which is a really fantastic merging of this salvation theology with Eastern sutra nondualism to get at The (metaphysical) Truth

>>15054236
I mean, it doesn't seem to me an Orginal Sin per se inasmuch as a reflection on or attempt at explaining sin itself, or simply non-perfection, which is a bit of a 'hard problem of consciousness' problem in that it just is because it is; we have just emanated imperfectly from the source, why would our first-ever gnosis have burdened us with anything but the natural consequences of knowledge?

>>15054279
>we have just emanated imperfectly from the source, why would our first-ever gnosis have burdened us with anything but the natural consequences of knowledge
why are you projecting extraneous neo-platonic nonsense onto biblical teaching

>>15054295
More of an introjection, I would say. Just call the source God.

>>15054254
is that the same guy who says we are not in the Kali Yuga?

>>15054303
I'd also very highly recommend a book called Political Ponerology, which would be the study of evil; the author states that there is a 200-year hysteroidal cycle in which the high point of European hysteria occurred around 1900, putting us at a low point now; with the US being 80 years behind Europe -- one of the key points there is how modernity's wireless meshing of these collective consciousnesses has fucked things up a bit

>>15053976
Is this /x/ or /pol/ leaking? Is there even a difference at this point?

>>15054369
It’s a single same fag who’s having a mental breakdown

>>15054076
>If Jesus isn't fully God and fully human, then the Passion doesn't save us.
Heresy
>>15054015
>the historical thought an ex-GCHQ agent called Alex Thomson.
interesting

>>15054369
>>15054379
You two are way late

>>15054381
Here's some links, hopefully the thread will stay up. Better not click these, /x/ poster!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhmpWolibpE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aaDr6joUdc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtKO13o_HZQ

Hint: there is no difference

>>15054430
Cf. 24:30 in the first link

>>15053976
Theological heresy is extremely important, you can be forgiven of all sorts of sins, but if you get Christ and God wrong, then you're in deep trouble...

>>15054381
>Heresy
Please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

>>15054540
And your authority on this is the Roman Catholic Church? Consider the 'god' of the Freemasons

>>15054570
This is certainly acceptable: older is better -- we have to go back

>>15054572
The RCC has a correct view of Christ, I don't need their authority though, I'm reformed and can read the scripture myself. Ultimately it comes from faith, and faith by hearing and being called by God...

>Consider the 'god' of the Freemasons
what about satan?

>>15054588
>Ultimately it comes from faith, and faith by hearing and being called by God...
What has helped instill the strongest message of faith within you?

>>15054588
>I'm reformed and can read the scripture myself
It's so easy to read scripture and simply understand it, that must be why Protestants are all in agreement about theological matters :)

>>15054588
And the Vatican? There is significant infiltration, the only question being how far back?

>>15054598
>that must be why Protestants are all in agreement about theological matters :)
There is disagreement and debate in every branch of human inquiry, that's part of being finite, sinful and living in a fallen world. The eastern church disagrees with the western church, the coptics with both, the sedes, sspx and tradcaths fight over Vatican2, etc.
But we can still establish some fundamentals that link us all together in the faith and view ourselves as brothers;, however heresies that challenge those fundamentals deserve to be pushed against from all sides. When Arians/mormons/JW/Nestorians/etc come around we can all stand together against them. That's why I'm thankful for the early church weeding out gnostics and heretics over the centuries.

>>15054597
Even if you have a tiny mustard seed of faith God will grow it in you, just a matter of time. It took me a while to learn that everything is going according to His plan. The idea of pre-election has had a profound impact on me. When I was trying to "convert myself" and "work with God" and 'build faith' via my own effort and intelligence I had far less success. Eventually I surrendered my will and basically said "do what you will Oh Lord, only you can save me, I can't do anything right...if I fall out so be it...". A few weeks later I happened upon "Ligonier Ministries" on youtubes, and started watching their question sessions and sermons, RC Sproul in particular, and reading about John Calvin and it all clicked. I gained a much higher view of God, definitely worthy of worship and exaltation.

>>15054652
>we can still establish some fundamentals that link us all together in the faith and view ourselves as brothers
I'd accept your view if there weren't quite so much divergence. Baptismal regeneration and 'baptism is just symbolic' are two views that cannot co-exist in the same faith.

>>15054652
>A few weeks later I happened upon "Ligonier Ministries" on youtubes, and started watching their question sessions and sermons, RC Sproul in particular, and reading about John Calvin and it all clicked. I gained a much higher view of God, definitely worthy of worship and exaltation.
You inspire me to renew me learnings in the Christian faith. Thank you. God bless

>>15054695
Cheers man. God bless you!

>>15053976
I really hate it when OP's broach a genuinely interesting subject but it has not to do with literature.

>>15053976
If you can't see why the Arian heresy would have had huge problems for the early church's "ethics and practical doctrine", go read more and then make this thread again, but make it better next time.

>>15053983
/thread