/lit/ - Literature

>>15047692
Read Job.

>>15047736
AHAAHAHAHHAAHAHA. yeah but seriously bro if you really want to be a Christian then you're just going to have to learn to cope and stop thinking about these things or you will go insane and kill yourself like I am going.

epic bait
sage

>>15047758
Why would that be funny at all?
Job is THE story that explains that God doesn't just exist to make our lives good, he has plans that are so far beyond our comprehension that we should simply not worry about them.

>>15047736
But Job is seen as a flaw in the narrative. Explain to me how Job solves my problem. There was a good ending for Job but not his children

>>15047692
>Why has he not helped me get a new job despite the prayers I have made about this? I have found it difficult to be happy in my current job. I spend my free time learning new skills, I apply for jobs I am at least 80% qualified for, I am driven to try and do something transformative for society in this life. This is how I want to put my autism into use.

Love in the Christian definition is wanting for someone to be good in the eyes of God. It doesn't imply material benefit of any kind. I can love everyone because I want them to be good Christians that successfully live a virtuous life away from sin. Knowing this it follows that God loves you unconditionally because no matter how far you stray from his light he will always want for you to see the error of your ways and come back to him.

>Then why does he allow evil people a way back with Grace? This is so wrong if I was to be a victim and meet this individual in the Kingdom of God.


It is a common mistake for people that don't know how confession works to think that it's enough to just tell the priest your sins and pray a few Hail Marys for someone to be in a state of grace, and so a person could commit mass murder and just quickly confess the day before he dies and go to Heaven.

In reality for sins to be properly forgiven it is necessary to feel true contrition over them. The penitence is not just to pay for your sins but to allow yourself to assure God that you will do your best to not repeat the sins you committed and that you truly understand why it was wrong to do them in the first place. Of course it is much harder for someone that has fallen deeper into sin to see the error of his ways in an honest manner, and the contrition you must feel and penitence you must follow to make up for deep mortal sin like murder is much greater than for something as simple as lying. God allows "evil people" a way to go back to Heaven because he loves them unconditionally the way I explained before but is just in expecting them to feel true remorse over their actions. You can't lie to God, so true remorse is more than just saying you feel bad about it.

[5] Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
[6] Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.
[7] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways.
Haggai

And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2 Peter 1:7


"Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great things he hath done for you."
1 Samuel 12:24,
"The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee."
Jeremiah 31:3,


"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 8:38-39,


"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
2 Peter 3:9,


"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:16,


"Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."
1 John 3:16,


"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Romans 5:8, KJV

"Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."
1 John 4:10, KJV


"Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him."
Psalm 103:13,


"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end."
Jeremiah 29:11,

Also, anon, your post sounds like you're walking a Wonderbread Christian walk, consider in antiquity how involved breadmaking was thousands of years ago, and how nutritious it was for you. Christ's words are your daily nutrition. Are you seeking His righteousness in your life? Are you looking for the real bread of life or enriched wonder bread??

"It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness."
Lamentations 3:22-23, KJV
John 15:7 - If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

1 Thessalonians 5:17 - Pray without ceasing.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Matthew 6:6 - But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:7 - But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Luke 11:9 - And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

1 Timothy 2:1-4 - I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 33:3 - Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

Matthew 26:41 - Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.

1 Timothy 2:5 - For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

James 5:16 - Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.


>Your plans for a job don't supersede God's grander plan for you.
Trust in the Lord brother!!! blessings abound if we feint not in well doing.

>>15047994
>It doesn't imply material benefit of any kind
So God has no problem with you being so poor that you have to steal? Are you saying God can't help you advance in life?

>>15048076
Of course sins have different weight according to the circumstances, this goes along with fairness. Stealing out of necessity is much easier to be forgiven than stealing out of greed. The same way someone that is coerced into committing a crime tends to receive a lighter punishment on most legal systems.

God knows everything about you and will judge you accordingly. Even when you stole a bread to survive, as a good Christian you should understand that stealing is wrong and confess it the next time you have the chance to do so and do your best to avoid doing it as much as possible.

Remember however that we all have free will and that no one can really make you do anything if you are stubborn enough about it. You can scoff at the idea of being expected to die over doing something immoral, but martyrdom is a real thing that is held in very high regard within Christianity. Sure, it's very extreme to mention it for something like stealing bread, typically martyrs arise when they refuse to commit a greater sin than stealing, like denying Christ for example, but the principle is the same, no one can really force you to commit a sin.

>>15048076
> Are you saying God can't help you advance in life?
forgot to address this. Of course God can help you advance in life, but don't confuse the definition of Love with material well being.

>>15047891
Bad things happen to Job and his family and its not Job's fault and its not his family's fault and its also not God's fault.

Bad things happen for reasons we can't possibly fathom.

>>15047692
Anon are you ready to be a big christian boyo?If yes
Go read christian parts or whole
https://www2.uned.es/dpto-hdi/History%20of%20Non-dual%20Meditation%20Methods.pdf

As for your job and mundane needs you can use rituals with shem angels or archangels from GOM -Damon brand
it will help you become more blissful, free so you can help others after as well.

>>15047692
>Why has he not helped me get a new job despite the prayers I have made about this?
God isn't a sugar daddy

>>God is fair
>Why do some have 5 talents and others 1 talent?
Some people find their talents; others don't.

>Then why does he allow evil people a way back with Grace?
Because he is also merciful.

>What am I supposed to expect from a relationship with God?
Love

>I expect Him to help me get forward in life and I use positions of influence to make a positive change
That's not a relationship, that's using God for your own gains and merits.

>but people say this is prosperity gospel tier
At best.

>>15048603
>That's not a relationship, that's using God for your own gains and merits.
But God does not need anything from me while I need everything from him

>>15048711
It's not about give-and-take, lad. Is that how you view or would view your parents? Your wife? Your children? Are you only friends with people because they can do shit for you?

Hey anon to get started check out these books. I'm not gonna give a bigger list because you don't need to be overwhelmed, but the first book below has references to dozens of other theological books

>Is God Just a Human Invention?: And Seventeen Other Questions Raised by the New Atheists
>A Case for Christ
>Mere Christianity

>>15048937
Sadly that is how I view relationships. How should it be?

>>15048193
>no one can really force you to commit a sin
Why are you not addressing the different cards God hands people in life. It is so easy for others as was said for Job. You get everything then it is easy to praise God. You lack and you wonder why God would not listen to you

>>15049347
Not like that. Sounds like you need to view relationships a little differently.
As John C. Lennox said (paraphrasing), when he got with his wife to begin with, she wasn't a good cook - but he loved her anyway. He didn't wait until she was a good cook to love her. So it should be here.
God doesn't magically make you patient; he gives you reason to become more patient, if you would follow it.

You can do it.

>>15047692
>Why do some have 5 talents and others 1 talent? It seems like it is so obvious that I would thank God if he gave me 5 talents. Why does he give others less and end goal the same for all?

From the time of the creation of mankind, each individual has been entrusted with resources of time and material wealth. Everything we have comes from God and belongs to Him. We are responsible for using those resources so that they increase in value. As Christians, we have additionally the most valuable resource of all – the Word of God. If we believe and understand Him, and apply His Word as good stewards, we are a blessing to others and the value of what we do multiplies. We are accountable to the Lord for the use of His resources.

>>15049378
>he gives you reason to become more patient
Please explain

>>15049473
>ask to become more patient
>people will try your patience and piss you off
>your choice how to respond

>>15049373
>Why are you not addressing the different cards God hands people in life.
I explained how sin committed out of necessity, like stealing bread, is lighter than if it was made without the necessity. I think you can connect the dots.

> It is so easy for others as was said for Job. You get everything then it is easy to praise God. You lack and you wonder why God would not listen to you

You'd think that it's easy to praise God when you're well off, but in fact as people become wealthier they tend to lose faith. Look at how Europe has become increasingly more Atheist. Love of material things can make you blind to the transcendental.

God doesn’t help pathetic little faggots.

>>15047692
Your reward is in heaven. This world belongs to the devil

>>15050436
Devilishly based

>GOD WON'T HELP ME SO HE DOESN'T EXIST
Typical self centered atheist

>>15047692
Read the knowledge of the Holy by AW Tozer

>>15049373
>Why are you not addressing the different cards God hands people in life.
Every individual is born with an intellect and a will, the hands are equal. Your concern with paltry materialism is, as usual, blinding you

>>15047692
I feel like one of the biggest things people miss is that, first off, God is a divine entity who exists outside of time, and whose motives are unknown to us. As humans, we are inferior to God, and thus, we cannot question his motives or project our own sense of morality or ethics onto him; He does things because hr is God, that's all there is too it.

That's the point of Job; God can do what we wants to do because he's God; we are subject to him.

Gotta say I'm impressed with these replies; I expected more open hostility towards Christianity on 4chan

>>15047692
>God loves you unconditionally
he could be allowing you to go through struggles to give you an opportunity to stay with him, love doesn't necessarily mean helping a person the way they want to be helped.
>God is fair
Should God give exactly equal talents to everyone? why? aren't they his to dispense at his pleasure?
>God is Just
because not doing so would defeat the purpose of having people. No one deserves Grace.
>Relationship with God
Thats because it is. A relationship with God is NOT a magic spell that gives a comfy life. It just gives an assurance of heaven at the end.

Just read the bible and build your own theology.

>>15050777
cringe

>>15047845
>he has plans that are so far beyond our comprehension
Sure, but in this case, we do, at least short-term. God allowed Satan to torment Job to test his faith. An act which becomes moot when you take into consideration God's omniscience/omnipresence.

>>15048288
>and its also not God's fault.
But it is? He directly releases Satan on Job.

>>15047692
So I was just looking a the Marcus Aurelius thread and it surprised me how many people think "just be good bro" make sense in contrast with the Christian narrative. What I'm saying I don't understand how any who has a passing understanding of what is the core of Christianity would think that of reasoning had any weight. People think the concept of a relationship with God is akin to a school uniform a principal requires you to wear rather than it being the life saving anti-viral drug a doctor give you (from the believer's perspective)

>>15050436
What? You mean resurrection/new life in the new kingdom on earth. Heavenly clouds, harps and angelic wings are a literal meme.

>>15052765
He doesn't sic him like a dog, he just lets him do it. He doesn't actively make Jobs life suck, he just stops protecting him.

Also its probably not THE Satan in Job. Satan is just a title that means "the opposer" and its more likely that its just an angel that disagrees with God, not Lucifer.

>>15047692
Try going to church on a consistent basis and ask the minister these questions. These are very basic gripes that people often have and I’m sure they will have answers for you. Also I’m not sure “God is fair” is a biblical precept

>>15047692
You’re trying to come back but these are the questions you have? When did you leave the church, 3 years old?

>>15052926
>He doesn't sic him like a dog,
Job 1: 10-12. He kind of does. Regardless, the outcome is the same. God gives Satan the go-ahead to test Job's faith, which indirectly ends up harming his family. All this despite God's omniscience/omnipresence.

>Satan is just a title that means "the opposer"
I'm aware.

>>15050698
Discord trannies are eating dinner. Give it a few minutes. Also check the Christianity generals on /pol/ if you want to see hostility

>>15053087
I want to talk about politics on /lit/ because I want to hear /lit/ opinions and people on here aren't idiots. How on-topic do threads need to be here?

>>15053109
>people on here aren't idiots
that's debatable

>>15052865
https://themattwalshblog.com/jesus-didnt-care-about-being-nice-or-tolerant-and-neither-should-you/

>>15047692
Try Barth or Tillich. They might be a bit of help. They’re more cerebral and mature than “big sky daddy sitting on a cloud” self-help-with-jesus stuff that sometimes passes for theology.

>>15047692
Understand one thing and the rest all falls into place: Christianity as we know it is Paul-based more than Jesus-based.

>Unconditionally
Throughout the Bible God says several times he takes no pleasure in the wicked. Don't fall for Protestant iniquity
>Talent
The man with one talent wasted it. In the Bible judgement day is when things are equalized, in fact there was a three year famine in David's time to ease the souls of one of the tribes Saul went to war with. Look it up
>Just
If you were ever righteous despite evil, He will justify you in one way or another
>Relationship
What do you expect from a relationship with a person? What you put in, you get out of it. Prayer will help you but so will doing what is right, moreso.

>>15055014
>Don't fall for Protestant iniquity
218 In the course of its history, Israel was able to discover that God had only one reason to reveal himself to them, a single motive for choosing them from among all peoples as his special possession: his sheer gratuitous love.38 And thanks to the prophets Israel understood that it was again out of love that God never stopped saving them and pardoning their unfaithfulness and sins.39
>t was again out of love that God never stopped saving them and pardoning their unfaithfulness and sins.39
219 God's love for Israel is compared to a father's love for his son. His love for his people is stronger than a mother's for her children. God loves his people more than a bridegroom his beloved; his love will be victorious over even the worst infidelities and will extend to his most precious gift: "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son."40
>his love will be victorious over even the worst infidelities and will extend to his most precious gift: "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son."40
220 God's love is "everlasting":41 "For the mountains may depart and the hills be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you."42 Through Jeremiah, God declares to his people, "I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."43
>"I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."43
221 But St. John goes even further when he affirms that "God is love":44 God's very being is love. By sending his only Son and the Spirit of Love in the fullness of time, God has revealed his innermost secret:45 God himself is an eternal exchange of love, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he has destined us to share in that exchange.
>"God is love":44 God's very being is love
- Catechism of the Catholic Church

man i want to order just a nice leather or faux leather bible to read but looking at amazon all of them seem to have reviews where there are numerous spelling mistakes or missing lines or some such problem

anyone have any recommendations of versions i can order online since i imagine book stores are closed right now? id also prefer one in the original english not one thats simplified with modern english

>>15055353
The bible wasn't originally in English...

>>15055363
i obviously mean one with the original English translation that does not use modernized English for the sake of being easier

>>15055368
I just use a Gideon's KJV bible I picked up at a used book store. I'd imagine they are easy to get considering their goal is for you to have one.

>>15048711
2 Peter 1:3
>“His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.“

Everything you need in life is provided to you according to God. Not everything you want but all you need will be provided to you. He may bless you sure but thats not the point at all, dont fall for the name it claim it prosperity gospel. He may not need anything from us but he wants our obedience. He’s given us salvation thats greater than anything we can acquire in our world or give back to him. We follow the law not because we have to or to receive benefits but we lovingly perform them in response to his act of sacrifice for us.

>>15055446
yea under normal circumstances it wouldn't be hard for me to just go to a book store and grab one i imagine but everything is locked down now

>>15055491
I am saying it may be pretty easy to get one online given that it is a religious book. There is probably a way to get one for free and pay only for the shipping or something.

>>15047758
Christianity is a stoic religion, learning to accept that God's will does not always align with ours is an important step in spiritual growth

>>15048076
>So God has no problem with you being so poor that you have to steal?
>have to steal
No such thing, thieves choose to steal and by doing so violate the commandments handed down by Moses and Christ

>>15048711
So you view God as a rich spouse to mooch off of?

>>15050777
Based trips, but be warned that if your IQ is high enough this endeavor will always lead to Calvinism

>>15055586
based
the thinking man's Christianity

>>15055586
This. Calvinism is the only theology that actually makes sense and reconciles all of the Bible together.

>>15055586
>>15055602
Ive looked into it but I’ve yet to see someone reconcile how we can have both freewill and be predestined. The act of being elect nullifies Jesus sacrifice because you were already chosen

>>15055618
>Ive looked into it but I’ve yet to see someone reconcile how we can have both freewill and be predestined.
We don't have free will in the sense that you mean. Our will is free in the sense that we are able act in accordance with our nature; i.e. you are not coerced into doing something that you yourself do not will.
>The act of being elect nullifies Jesus sacrifice because you were already chosen
Why would it do that? Jesus died for his elect only. He bore the punishment that they deserved, and thus they will be saved. If he died for anyone else then his death would have been in vain and ineffectual.

>>15055626
Putting it another way, Christ does not fail to save anyone. All other theologies propose that Christ fails to save people that he died to save.

>>15055634
>All other theologies propose that Christ fails to save people that he died to save.
Forgot about universalism. But that's wrong in the other direction.

>>15055626
If we are elected rhough the choice of baptism and following Jesus does not become a loving act, but something we are forced to do. But if you sin to the point of losing salvation do you stop being elect, or do Calvinists not believe in losing salvation? Regardless I don’t see how someone can believe in Jesus, or lose belief without being elect.

> If he died for anyone else then his death would have been in vain and ineffectual.
None of us were deserving of his sacrifice so I dont see why it would be vain for him to sacrifice for anybody.

>>15055674
TULIP my friend.

>>15055674
>If we are elected rhough the choice of baptism and
Election is something that occurred before the creation of the world and it is not base don any actions you take or merits that you possess. It is by God's will alone.
>following Jesus does not become a loving act, but something we are forced to do.
All humans are dead in their sins and incapable of having faith and loving God. If someone is elect, at the point in their life which God determines, he will regenerate them and give them a new will and bestow upon them the gift of faith. People do not believe in Christ against their will, and they don't reject him against their will. And I don't know, but God dying for you seems fairly loving to me. You're the one saying that there have to be these other little conditions that you've made up or it won't fit your high human understanding of what constitutes "love."
>But if you sin to the point of losing salvation do you stop being elect, or do Calvinists not believe in losing salvation? Regardless I don’t see how someone can believe in Jesus, or lose belief without being elect.
If someone is elect they cannot lose their salvation. (John 6:39 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.)
>None of us were deserving of his sacrifice so I dont see why it would be vain for him to sacrifice for anybody.
Did Christ intend to save these people? If he wanted to save them then he failed to do so. Does God fail to get what he wants?

>>15047692
>if god exist why bad thing happen
holy shit these guys never learn.

So does everyone believe that Jesus walked on water, resurrected the dead, and came back to life?
I could never believe those events happening during a brief period of human history.

Also, how come God only appeared within the greater area of Israel? Are the east religions wrong then?

>>15055368
Translations have only gotten better with time and linguistic/archaeological research. Don't fall for the KJV meme it is an outdated translation written in a language that we no longer speak.

The reality is that there are two competing ideologies when it comes to translation, word-for-word or meaning-for-meaning.
For example, in Spanish you could translate "El mundo es un pañuelo" as "The world is a handkerchief" and it would be completely correct and accurate in one sense, but very inaccurate in another. The idiom really means "Its a small world", so in another sense that is a better translation.

Get yourself a translation like NASB or ESV (or interlinear if you're hardcore) for the more word-for-word translation that can be needed when diving in depth into a passage, and get a more meaning-for-meaning translation like NLT or NIV.

Please DO NOT fall for the KJV meme. It was a great translation for its time but its just a strictly worse translation than nearly any other version on this list.
Other than the message, which isnt even a translation.

>>15055618
Just because there is a necessary virtuality of actions you haven't taken yet doesn't mean that you don't choose to take them when the time comes to actualize

>>15047692
>Why do some have 5 talents and others 1 talent?
God is being merciful because he knows some people aren't as capable as others. You need to pray for understanding when you study the bible Matthew 11:25
>What am I supposed to expect from a relationship with God?
Matthew 5:3