/lit/ - Literature

>>15021716
>illegal=mexican
LOL

>>15021722
I prefer the term Citizenly Challenged

>>15021716
Degradation compared to what? The thing about doomsayers of today that always confuses me is that they seem to have this idea that mankind lives in the darkest timeline and medieval societies had flying cars and hyperspace travel until the jews ruined everything. As if language policing, forceful censorship, and propaganda are recent inventions that weren't employed by every leader since the dawn of Grugs. As if the average european peasant circa pre-industrialism wasn't an illiterate troglodyte with a lexicon of a couple hundred words.

>>15021722
NOOOOO YOU can't do that, that's Mexican.

>>15021761
You really just latched on to what you thought I was saying and ran off with it. I never implied any of that. Degradation compared to human society pre-smartphones and social media; before people earnestly used primitive image glyphs in their digital sentences. It's foolish to deny that the average person's communication skills are significantly worse than the average person even fifty years ago.

>>15021716
I cringe every time someone says significant other (even more so when they use the SO abbreviation). How did this term become popular?

>>15021716
Dude no one cares. No one will judge you if you write like the left column.
You just search for reasons to get angry.

>>15021894
>You just search for reasons to get angry.

I'm not really angry about it. If anything I just feel sad about the state of the world and how we've let greatness slip from our hands.

>>15021878
>How did this term become popular?

Largely because people stopped getting married but still have long-term relationships.

>>15021925
Why not just say "girlfriend" or "boyfriend" or "common law wife/husband"

>>15021716
>1984 touched on this subject, about how taking away words from the masses takes away their ability to articulate their dissent,
Yeah, words filter too much what we really want to say

"illegal" is a little provocative, but illegal immigrant is fine

>>15021716
Don't worry, with pejoration, all the terms in green will be red in a couple decades, and your children or grandchildren will be on whatever replaces 4chan bitching about having to learn a new term for "sex worker". Commodius Vicus.

>>15021811
Ahhh yes the Cold War, peak of mankind's freedom and ideological flexibility.

>>15021761
>As if language policing, forceful censorship, and propaganda are recent inventions that weren't employed by every leader since the dawn of Grugs
Those actually are pretty recent inventions.

You are describing the current battle over the limits of propriety. It’s the degradation of language only as the replacement of words with a history/etymology to words which intentionally lack it. Words without peripheral meanings or values attached avoid one of the contemporary cardinal sins: mischaracterization. (As an example, my mother believes that spinster is offensive, but that bachelor is not.)

I don’t think that your statement is wrong, however, just defended poorly. I think a convincing argument can be made that the justification for such a change in propriety relies upon poorly defined arguments due to nebulous definitions and precepts.

I’ll recommend to you a George Orwell essay, if you haven’t already read it.

https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit

I get it.

Sort of like how we use the word entrepreneur instead of exploiter, or capitalist instead of thief, or job creator instead of slave master....

>>15021716
I've noticed most language use has degraded substantially. Even comparing a news article from the past to modern productions is night and day. Academic rigour is crumbling and standards are caving in across every media format. Even looking at videos of random people on the street from the 80s (that one video of the 7-11 visit comes to mind), people in the past were much more well spoken than today.
>1984
read another fucking book. holy shit. go read gulag archipelago, solzyboi touched on the policing of language as a means of humiliation and disillusionment.
>>15021761
stop being inflationary. this isnt' THE darkest time in humanity but we have noticeably declined since the ~1600s-1800s and even since the mid 1900s. If you actually read books you would be able to point that out. The density of language, eloquence of construction, and richness of vocabulary have all declined across the board.

People today are more educated as a whole, but their verbal and linguistic abilities are notably dampened. Obviously scientific knowledge, for example, has increased.

>I want to have an honest discussion about a change in language. I know it's like 1984 in that it is dystopian and negatice, but what else is it also like?

please don't use social media to confirm your views. we don't want to hear them.

>>15022029
>ahh yes the deflection, peak of anon's ability to reply without actually saying anything

>>15022090
Why are you some of you fuckers so autistically obsessed with capitalism?

>>15022469
You are a fucking moron. Who wouldn't care about a system that influences everything that they do? Capitalism is extremely important and throwing middle school insults won't change that

>>15022502
>a system that influences everything that they do

You will never find enlightenment if you continually externalize your problems.

>>15021901
Yeah, greatness is bitching about illegals

>>15021959
>common law wife/husband
Really rolls off the tongue

>>15022511
Tell that to OP

>>15021959
>Why not just say "girlfriend" or "boyfriend"

Because calling someone you've been with for 8 years and are raising a child with your 'girlfriend' just doesn't fit very well.

Or if the two of you are both in your 60's and have been together for years, same thing.

>>15022570
>Because calling someone you've been with for 8 years and are raising a child with your 'girlfriend' just doesn't fit very well
Sure it does. At least it is better than artificial alternatives like "significant other" or "life partner." You'd be better off rehabilitating dated slang like "my old lady" or something than going around introducing your girlfriend as your SO.

>>15022582
>You'd be better off rehabilitating dated slang like "my old lady" or something than going around introducing your girlfriend as your SO.

Depends entirely on who you are talking to. I will remember that the next time I meet a 4chan shut-in and am discussing such matters.

>>15022582
>You'd be better off
Why? Because "partner" makes you feel uncomfortable?

>>15022613
You are lashing out in anger because you know I'm right. But you shouldn't. It's not something to get worked up about.

>>15022618
Why would it make me uncomfortable?

>>15022624
Why the resistance, if not for that reason?

>>15022626
I feel like there is a false solemnity and rectitude surrounding these sorts of terms that belie the reality of actual relationships

>>15022621
>You are lashing out in anger

I am?

There was no anger at all in that post. I think you're just overly sensitive.

I would guess you're projecting your own problems onto me. What makes you think I was angry? I also think it's silly you don't believe optimal word choice depends on audience.

>>15022633
As opposed to the levity of "common law wife"

>>15022639
I wouldn't ever introduce or refer to someone as my common law wife, except maybe ironically or in court.

>>15022637
You've sort of changed your point. Is calling someone your long term girlfriend your SO good because it "fits better," or would you use that term to satisfy some audience that would be scandalized if you used the other? I just can't think of an instance where "SO" is really useful.

>>15021716
Changing "prostitute" with "sex worker" isn't a degradation of language. It's a purposeful alteration made in order to replace a term that is associated with social stigma with a more neuter one. The real degradation of language (and therefore of thought) is the fact that 99% of our political discourse and self reflection (if you can even call it that) passes through channels that are inherently unsuited to complex reflection (twitter, reddit, social media, tv, 4chan, youtube videos and comments), which coupled with the lack of "grand narratives" due to postmodernity makes people retreat into tribalistic garbage.

Why is using aggressive language better?

>>15022649
>Is calling someone your long term girlfriend your SO good because it "fits better," or would you use that term to satisfy some audience that would be scandalized if you used the other?

I still feel SO 'fits better' in the scenarios I outlined. 'Girlfriend' feels juvenile and ephemeral when the relationship is clearly long-term and between more mature individuals. But you insist people cater to your taste in language, and I, considering myself an erudite linguist, try to please my audience.

>>15022570
Why not just get married then?

If you live in the US, Canada, or Britain the state is going to take half your shit when you break up anyway, so you have nothing to lose. It's not like how it is in Germany where a marriage has actual (and unfortunate) legal consequences for the man.

>>15022666
Yes, and I feel like the term "SO" is worthy of a self-help book or a group therapy session, and that's mainly why I dislike the term: it is completely abstracted from most of the language we typically use to talk about romance, sex, and relationships. We already knew we disagreed on this point, but I couldn't tell whether you were saying you use the term to please others or because you actually think it's somehow better for certain uses

>>15022693
Language is clearly flexible. We have 'fiance' and 'spouse' to delineate varying degrees of commitment between people. In an age where marriage is no longer seen as a necessary progression, should people not have some way of distinguishing their relationship from that of the brief infatuation of high-schoolers?

>>15022676
>Why not just get married then?

Because they don't feel like paying a socially empowered person to perform some rite to impress the rest of society? That's the best explanation I have. I also don't see how marriage doesn't have consequences for Men in the US (I don't know laws of Canada/Britain). I have never actually heard of common law marriage being invoked, the laws vary state to state, and they often require uninterrupted cohabitation. I also hear reasons such as a general disregard for organized religion/the state.

>>15022737
>Language is clearly flexible. We have 'fiance' and 'spouse' to delineate varying degrees of commitment between people. In an age where marriage is no longer seen as a necessary progression, should people not have some way of distinguishing their relationship from that of the brief infatuation of high-schoolers?
Sure, but it should be something other than "SO" in my opinion. And I don't fully agree with the significations you are attaching to the word girl/boyfriend. I don't think most people would agree either

>>15022511
That is objectively true. The website you are using now has ±4 clickbait ads up top. The clothes you are using now has ethical issues that you might consider. The internet is constantly trying to harvest your data. I'm not complaining, I'm just explaining something pretty obvious by the excess of evidence that daily life presents.

I know you're trying to be cute and follow the greeks, but that doesn't take away from the reality of the here and now.

>>15022737
>should people not have some way of distinguishing their relationship from that of the brief infatuation of high-schoolers?
Yes, it's called "marriage".

>>15022737
>In an age where marriage is no longer seen as a necessary progression, should people not have some way of distinguishing their relationship from that of the brief infatuation of high-schoolers?
Yes. Can we, and should we, designate such a state with a term that doesn't sound like it came straight out of a parody of the writing of the late URSS ministry of culture and education? Also yes.

>>15021716
I think it's bullshit and it's yet another reason to hate leftists.

>>15022751
>>15022761

Put forth a better term and try to meme it then. I have never really found anything wrong with 'SO' but clearly it offends you, so it is up to you to find a more fitting term and make it reality.

Does 'partner' work? Seems stale, and taking a term that should be closer to co-worker.

>>15022759
>Yes, it's called "marriage"

Your lack of reading comprehension is astounding. What are you doing on this board?

>>15022771
The word exists. It's called girlfriend. I can't stop you from talking like you are trapped inside a Reddit post, but I wish I could

>>15022779
>I can't stop you from talking like you are trapped inside a Reddit post, but I wish I could

>I have a deep seated desire to police the language of others

You have issues man.

>>15022785
Relax, it's just banter

>>15022771
>but clearly it offends you
I wouldn't say it offends me. I just find it saddening that our aesthetic sensibilities have been dulled to the point where we find it unobjectionable to speak (and therefore: to think) of ourselves as formless entities from a bureocratic bulletin.

>>15022785
no it's more like take your disgusting smelly pink bulbous little papule covered cock inside your pants we don't want to see it, pull them pants up boy!

>>15022795
>I just find it saddening that our aesthetic sensibilities have been dulled to the point where we find it unobjectionable to speak (and therefore: to think) of ourselves as formless entities from a bureocratic bulletin.

That's an interesting take on it. Why is 'significant other' significantly more dehumanizing than 'spouse'? Their phonetics are even similar. Is it simply tradition? A matter of how long the term has been used?

I never found the term THAT unaesthetic, though I suppose now that I consider it, I certainly would not call it aesthetic. What of 'life-partner'? That one, it seems to me, carries some level of the proper emotional content.

>>15022797
I'm clearly doing something right if I am making strangers fantasize about my dick.

>>15021878
Because the term works for people who aren't married, where girlfriends/boyfriends might be confusing. Consider two women who fuck each other with dildos. They may use the term girlfriend to refer to normal close friends, but significant other to refer to their not-yet-married-wife.

>>15022848
fiance

>>15022850
Implies they've proposed and been accepted, which is not part of the scenario I laid out.

>>15022855
you've given a pretty tortured example, and even then "lover" would suffice, and not make me want to gag like the word SO. SO does no additional descriptive work. it's touted as a replacement for boyfriend/girlfriend, not as a more serious relationship than whatever you think boyfriend-girlfriend implies, which in any case more expansive than what you are suggesting

>>15022862
Lover is good, yes. That's the context I was thinking of. But it's too informal for more formal conversations.That's where Partner and SO come in.
I wouldn't call my example tortured though. The way females used the term girlfriend constantly while all the lgbt stuff was also cropping up caused me to think about how the term was no longer adequate while I was growing up.

>>15021878
because you can shorten it to SO, I think. Once you've dated someone for 2+ years, you might not want to refer to them as your gf/bf, but SO is quick and sounds more significant. I personally use partner though

>>15021716
That's why I slip in the word nigger to every conversation with someone I've just met. Whether I'm calling him it or I'm talking about some racist "now he was a real racist, like 'ya fucken niggers you have iq's of 75' and you know real bad shit" and so forth. It's just good to not be so confined in every day use.

>>15022848
>Consider two women who fuck each other with dildos.
That's disgusting, why would you want me to think about that?

>>15022659
How is the word husband aggressive?

>>15021901
Explain what you mean by "greatness"

>>15022511
You can keep going on about enlightenment and obsessing over yourself like some neurotic NEET or you can open your eyes and form an opinion on the real world around you.

>>15022956
its reminiscent of binary gender philosophy, which is violence towards nonbinary people

>>15022885
Girlfriend is used incorrectly there. The change that should occur is those people referring to their friends as friends and not something with a sexual connotation.
>>15022888
If you wish to stop referring to your girlfriend as “girlfriend,” then get on one knee.