/lit/ - Literature

>>15013954
what does this even mean, can you explain this to your grandma? if you can't then you don't even understand it

>>15013954
>ideas
>nuuuuuhhh it’s science!
Shut up faggot

>>15013976
My grandma was a cyberfeminist. She literally invented hyperphilosophy

>>15013954
Holy hyper-based... Neobrother....

>>15014509
Hyper-pbuh sinocomrade

>>15013954
>Philosophy has an affinity with despotism, due to its predilection for Platonic-fascist top-down solutions that always screw up viciously.
except for when Hitler did wonders for the German economy and rescued his people from starvation only to have the Zionist Cabal controlling the UK, US, France and the Soviet Union gang up to stop him

>>15014565
You aren't even a midwit. You are literally double digit IQ. Fuck off back to 4chan, goblin.

>>15014580

>>15013954
>It avoids Ideas
Impossible to do

>>15014709
define impossible on your own terms

>>15014726
Explain how it’s possible to avoid the transcendent property of the Idea

>>15014835
Easy you avoid it

>>15016067
this
no think
jus act

>>15013997
Are you Donna Haraway's grandson

>>15016211
No, but close

>>15014624
>unironically posting molymeme

>>15017488
ancaps must stick together

>>15016067
Avoid what? Explain to me how you avoid a transcendent property that entirely encompasses the whole

>>15018079
teleoplexy and hyperstition. just read anon.

>>15018058
yes. if you cower together it makes you easier to cull.

>>15018093
>teleoplexy and hyperstition
Both Ideas

>>15018079
Diagrams are not "ideas". try again.

>>15018126
Diagrams are Ideas because they are merely a reflection of the interior.

>>15018136
the interior of what? diagrams are schema with functional use. You don't "imagine" a diagram, the specific arrangements and interconnections must necessarily exist in nature for a diagram to serve its use before you have even imagined it. It is not just a picture or representation or those relations, it IS those relations. A diagram is not an idea imagined, it is a machine discovered.

>>15018174
>diagrams are schema
Stems of what?

>>15018174
>diagrams are schema
Schema of what? They are an Idea and representative of the interiority of the Whole

>>15018190
>Schema of what?
Of whatever function they serve. They are not representative because if they were, they would have no use beyond a pretty picture. Think of a circuit diagram– it is not a representation of the connections that make up the circuit, but the virtual form of those actual connections. It is no less real than the circuit itself, it is simply a circuit that has yet to be actualised.

>>15013954
> feminoid nocturnal cybelian Nickuck Cuckoland talks shit about diurnal masculine appolonian Plato
Wew what a surprise

>>15018216
>Of whatever function they serve
All of these functions are directly pertaining to the interior. The Idea is that diagrams are representative of the Whole.

>>15013954
I like old world Philosophy, but not Plato.

I think he's very overrated and the more I read the more I think he's overrated.

"Neo-Plato" lent itself too easily to nonsense Mysticism which practical and oratorical logical Philosophy / Rhetoric was very much not about it. It's probably true to call Plato a Sophist; a "pleasing speaker / writer" seeming to be progressive but really going backwards into copper age idolatry.

I wouldn't want to say whether that's a conclusive assessment of him himself, since he had nothing to do with "Neo Plato".

>>15018233
Again, I ask, the interior to what? What whole are you talking about? Why do you choose not to speak plainly?

>>15018249
>Again, I ask, the interior to what? What whole are you talking about? Why do you choose not to speak plainly?
Oh, you’re just a pseud.

>>15018276
–he cries, in predictable evasive fashion as he does he utmost to avoid defining his terms.

>>15018245
>I think he's very overrated and the more I read the more I think he's overrated.
How so?

>>15018289

>>15018289
If you don’t understand the transcendental, you’re a pseud. Sorry, you’re not well read. Not my fault.

>>15018245
Why would you even read philosophy, you dumb fucking NPC, please kys.

>>15018296
still not a definition in sight. Ever heard of intellectual rigour?

>>15018310

>>15018321
Speak clearly, or don't speak at all. You aren't Kant. Trying to emulate him is only going obfuscating your point further.

>>15018299
piss off prole, you're probably a Catholic serf. Who let you out of your chains? Go back to your shed.

>>15018291
>How so?
Compared to the old world Philosophers we don't hear about... i.e. the Rhetoric and Practical Logic; i.e. Stoicism, Epicurus, Pyrrho:
Demosthenes, Gorgias, Chrysippus and Cleanthes, Pyrrho and Timon, Rufus, these guys are the background reading before Seneca, really. And Epicurus, obviously lol

Compared to these guys Plato doesn't really have much to say about the key cardinal concepts of Moderation, Equanimity, Balance, Ataraxia and Arete, avoiding Dogma, etc etc, which Aristotle teaches.

Plato has good concepts to be sure, but I think people interested in Philosophy begin and end with Plato and miss 95% of Philosophy.

Sort of like trying to learn Martial Arts and only bothering to learn how to strike a pose and say "hi ya".

>>15018345
>Plato has good concepts to be sure, but I think people interested in Philosophy begin and end with Plato and miss 95% of Philosophy.
So, what specifically about Plato is overrated? What does he says that is irrelevant?

>>15018340
>Speak clearly, or don't speak at all
I’m speaking in ordinary and everyday language. You’re the retard who hasn’t been initiated.

>>15013954
I wonder how many people actually understands what Deleuze (pbh) means when he talks about a body without organs and how many hylics just think it sounds based.

>>15018363
No, you're talking in the same circular, self-referential jargon that Kant uses that doesn't actually get anywhere in discourse, least of all on this board. Why not apply yourself and develop your own voice, instead of LARPing as a man from the 18th century?

>>15013954
Say what you want but I just can't understand a thing he says

>Philosophy has an affinity with despotism
What? Why? There are many philosophers that have strong anarchistic connotations, if you pull from history have the balls to drop names and events, like Simmone Weil being part of the Durruti column, Nozick that gave a huge push for anarchocapitalists, hell I would even say Bakunin and after that where do we put Camus or Dioegenes, in a barrel?
> that always screw up viciously
Not always, centralized top-down solutions can work, or monarchism would have always failed in every iteration.
>Schizoanalysis works differently
What?
>It avoids Ideas
How? Isn't that also an idea? What ideas are you talking about then
>and sticks to diagrams: networking software for accessing bodies without organs.
W-what is this amalgamation of senseless words?

Answer me Land, I want to fucking understand what are you on about and why you deserve 20% of this board's attention every single fucking day, whats so fucking revolutionary about being convoluted? Because this use of language feels more fitting in a goddman cult.

>>15018345
probably a Catholic serf
Hahahah laughing in orthodox

>>15018356
>So, what specifically about Plato is overrated? What does he says that is irrelevant?
I did answer this in the post you replied to.

>Compared to
>Compared to these

i.e. he's not teaching Philosophy as it was practiced as self-discipline.

>>15018397
>orthodox
:o
well in that case...! come in my friend!

>>15018405
>i.e. he's not teaching Philosophy as it was practiced as self-discipline
Oh, say you’re gatekeeping what is and isn’t philosophy, eh? Fuck off, faggot.

>>15018427
hahahaha
Well, look.. either you study what Philosophy was in the old world and study that, and those guys I mentioned, or you go with a misconception of what Philosophy was in the old world andhase your tail around learning nothing.

I mean, these were disciplines; the university masters degrees of the day. They weren't idle past-times where "you have an opinion, he has an opinion, we agree that the clouds are pretty", and this of mush.

I don't mind though. Education isn't for everybody.

>>15018383
The cult vibe is kinda nice though, isn't it?

>>15018465
>hahahaha
>Well, look.. either you study what Philosophy was in the old world and study that, and those guys I mentioned, or you go with a misconception of what Philosophy was in the old world andhase your tail around learning nothing.
>I mean, these were disciplines; the university masters degrees of the day. They weren't idle past-times where "you have an opinion, he has an opinion, we agree that the clouds are pretty", and this of mush.
>I don't mind though. Education isn't for everybody.

>>15013954
This shit is so retarded. Calling the kallipolis “fascist” is so stupid considering the conditions that gave rise to modern fascism, communism, capitalism, etc did not exist in 400 BC. Stop trying to view everything through a narrow modern lens.

>>15018504
hmm.. well you just reconfirm the truth of the matter that people unstudied in real Philosophic Disciplines haven't attained a good state of mind, despite having read Plato you are still found to be in a barbarous state, and you have my sympathy, and an invitation for your Master to sell you to me for sexual abuse.

please forward this to your Master.

>>15018536
>hmm.. well you just reconfirm the truth of the matter that people unstudied in real Philosophic Disciplines haven't attained a good state of mind, despite having read Plato you are still found to be in a barbarous state, and you have my sympathy, and an invitation for your Master to sell you to me for sexual abuse.
>please forward this to your Master.

>>15018521
Literally the only thing that existed in 400bc was fascism.

>>15018544
I expect you to obey the Laws, barbarian, and report your actions and words to the nearest Urbes Milites for fifty flogs of the whip.

>>15018551
No way. Do you know anything about Athens? Two major elements of fascism are autocracy and autarky. Athens, on the other hand, prided itself on the destruction of tyranny and reliance on “global” naval trade. Even Athenians who opposed democracy, such as the old oligarch, favored aristocracy over democracy (never tyranny) and reiterated the importance of a trade economy. Fascist governments universally strive to become economically self-reliant.

>>15018101
nope

>>15018218
prove him wrong. Land's philosophy prdeicted everything we're experiencing and Plato is useless today.

>>15018521
Capital predicted this hyper-pbuh

Hypohylics seething.

Capital aka Nick Land already teleoplexically refuted your life hyper-pbuh.

>>15018602
Sounds a lot like fascism to me. You’re just dealing with semantics.

Hyperbasado Neocomrades pbuh.

>>15018636
Teleoplexy and hyperstition are both Ideas. Unless you can categorize them as phenomena or noumena.

>>15018760
they are not, they are processes of the k-AI hyper-pbuh.

>>15018771
Which is still a part of the Whole and is thereby a transcendent Ideal.

>>15018174
>>15018216
based neorationalis
>>15018190
>>15018233
cringe holistic idealist

>>15018845
Based retard

>>15018521
this
>>15018551
cringe

>>15018383
>There are many philosophers that have strong anarchistic connotations
what does the word affinity mean to you? you know Nick Land is himself a philosopher, right?
>Not always, centralized top-down solutions can work, or monarchism would have always failed in every iteration
they have, capitalism beat autocratic monarchy in virtually every instance they ran up against one another. not only that, hereditary monarchy has always been a consistently terrible form of gov
>How? Isn't that also an idea?
no, ctrl-f diagram and read other anons post. a map isn't functional by means of it being an idea, it is functional to the degree you can /use it/. diagramming in about functionality, not ideality. an ideal diagram is an oxymoron. diagrams are closer to heuristics than ideas

>>15018760
>Teleoplexy and hyperstition are both Ideas. Unless you can categorize them as phenomena or noumena
Not him but I'm a huge Kantfag and what the fuck are you talking about?

>>15018805
there is no whole. try reading non-cavemen.

>>15018913
>diagrams are closer to heuristics than ideas
I diagram is still an Idea, no matter than semantic games you like to play. >>15018930
If you can’t categorize something into either the physical or mental then it is translated into the transcendent and esoteric.

>>15019305
The question doesn't make sense. Phenomena isn't a matter of ideas it's a matter of experiential knowledge. If you want Kant's take on ideas you need to read his Critique of Judgement, not the Critique of Pure Reason. Also, don't be cucked by substance dualism that's a bad look.

>>15019378
>Also, don't be cucked by substance dualism that's a bad look.
I’m a monist who employs dualist terminology
>Phenomena isn't a matter of ideas it's a matter of experiential knowledge
Yes. The physical, which is not tied to the metaphysical.

>>15019305
The idea of a diagram is an idea. The diagram itself, on the other hand, is a virtual arrangement of elements and connections that, when actualised, produces a specific effect. The movement from virtual to actual would simply not be possible if the diagram itself was something imagined, because you cannot imagine those connections prior to their ability to exist in a virtual state. If you did, the diagram would not work, the electrical circuit (for example) would not function, because the laws of physics would not permit you to do so.

>>15018126
all words are ideas, therefore, Diagram is an idea.

>>15018647
>Ideas are bad
>uses Ideas to convey the Idea that Ideas are bad
what did he mean by this?

>>15019461
Alright, now let’s dance.
>The idea of a diagram is an idea
What exactly is it about a diagram that gives us the Idea of a diagram? We do not need to see everything, but we do not also need the know “the thing in itself” without having the ability to grasp the whole. That which is present can also be absent; in the particular case, the Idea of beauty is no longer present in what ceases to be beautiful; the Idea of a diagram ceases in what is no longer a diagram.

Now, this “something else” which “we do not know”
> because you cannot imagine those connections prior to their ability to exist in a virtual state
is the Logos. That is the intelligible look, Idea or eidos. The look or Idea is both present and absent. It is present in the original of the image embodied in the morphe (shape), and so that which provides us the criterion or reference point for the various perspective that we open up in investigation of the nature of the being with the use of said Diagram.
> If you did, the diagram would not work, the electrical circuit (for example) would not function, because the laws of physics would not permit you to do so.
Who says physical knowledge of electricity entirely encompasses the Whole of the properties of electricity?

>>15019567
>>15019461
For your reference :P

>>15019390
>The physical, which is not tied to the metaphysical
??? This isn't Kant idk what sort of shit you are on now

>>15018245
>a "pleasing speaker / writer"

>>15014580
>back to 4chan

>>15019676
I’m making a transcendental leap from phenomena/noumena to the Eidos

>>15019567
>What exactly is it about a diagram that gives us the Idea of a diagram?
As I said before, connected to our idea of a "diagram" is the concept of utility– this is what distinguishes diagrammatic knowledge from representational knowledge. if a diagram does not serve a specific function, if it does not explicitly relay information that only has use through actualisation, then it ceases to be a diagram at all. Thus, our idea of a diagram is a representation, but because we still import over the concept of use with it, the necessary or relevant aspects of a diagram are not lost to us, even if the arrangements of a particular diagram are not known to us.

>The look or Idea is both present and absent. It is present in the original of the image embodied in the morphe (shape)
This is the core of our disagreement, I think. Where you see "the original of the image", I see information at the level of sub-organisational patterns. When you strip away the redundancy from the side of the investigation itself (and that includes the anthropocentric import of "ideas"), namely the assumption of intentionality, subjectivity, interpretability, structure, etc., eg. the necessary components of ideation, what you are left with is immanent models that transmute themselves at the level of process; in other words, diagrams. At this point it is no longer relevant to discuss in terms of ideas; we would be better off talking in terms of signals analysis, as to actualise a diagram is not to "think" its properties, but to subject it to a process of rigorous decoding.

>republic is a political treatise

>>15013954
.......... But isnt it inevitable that philosophy bends this way since it tries to understand things in totallity? Including how the human spirit works? He says this like its a bad thing, instead of just an understanding. If we are influenced by our material world, it stands to reason that the self of others can be cultivated as well.

>>15013954
Its a gamma male power fantasy where the world is reshaped to make philosopher-kings. Only then in this fantasy will everyone appreciate the apparent genius of the secret king.

>>15013954
Read Derrida. This logic that governs the relationship between the Platonic and the Schizoanalytic operates along the lines of the metaphysics of presence. It is a simple subversion. The Idea is the body without organs, and the regulation of its access - whether to stick to certain things or avoid others because they 'don't avoid Ideas' - is the operation of being-present; the pure presence of the self-sovereign and conscious being, in accordance with the rules of presence as the meaning of being.

>>15020415
>Where you see "the original of the image", I see information at the level of sub-organisational patterns
You admit you’re playing a poor game of semantics. You claim to have overcome Plato, yet you ironically refute yourself.

>>15020992
You didn't read the rest of my post did you? Do you research, then come back with a proper reply.

>>15021001
Read this, then come back to me.

Keep it hyper hyper-pbuh.

>>15022475

>>15022525
Cringe

>>15013976
It means philosophy has an affinity with despotism

>>15018647
Imagine being so superficial. Read my post again.

>>15013954
He was 100% right. 20th century death camps are the realized form of philosophy (metaphysics)

>>15023714
you haven't read Land. try reading Land.

>>15023723
Woah he literally predicted the 20th century

How'd he do it?

Holy shit capital is finally happening!

>>15013954
Coronavirus instantiated Capital is disintegrating social phallontropy, paranoia is getting upgraded and Neo-China -- now simply "China" -- smirks deviously at those who stained them. How can one man be so right? Just imagine if he had been a woman.

>>15025353
>Just imagine if he had been a woman.
That would be NyxLandUnlife. "she" is likely celebrating the fact that estrogen actually provides a degree of immunity to the virus, inhibits testosterone production in males, and attacks their balls. COVID-19 from any acc perspective is literally too good to be true.

>>15025353
>The real China that was hidden behind a web of MSM lies and propaganda is now fully seen in wake of the disaster that is Chinas response to coronoavirus
Why can’t acc/fags speak in ordinary language?

>>15025433
ordinary language lacks the virulent potential for memetics. Hyperstitions travel much faster than ideas.

>>15025455
Memetics are the phenomenal form of the Idea. Ordinary language is the given; it is the starting point and the context for all theoretical accounts of beings, and hence of being. Remember that even the fantastic element of sense-perception is adapted to everyday human language. Cows may be other than they appear, but it is the appearance, or phenomena of the cow that renders it accessible to us.

>>15025455

>>15025433
What words tripped you up there? Pretty sure that reads at like a 10th grade level

>>15025353
>phallontropy
Is this the best word ever? Accfags can't stop losing.

>>15025976
>the point
Your head

>>15025353
He who is without dilation among you, let xer cast the first dilater.

>>15018245
>nonsense mysticism
>practical rhetoric
You missed 95% of philosophy

>>15013954
>Philosophy has an affinity with despotism
Yes.
>that always screw up viciously
No.

It is democracy that "screws up viciously" and creates a system not only antithetical to its ideal type but antithetical to sociocultural progression (an effect exacerbated by neoliberalism). In advocating for any other form of governance other than the monarchical - until you can assure that your populous both participates 100% and is 100% educated (if this is even possible), you commit the greatest sociopolitcal folly that man possibly could and institutionalize stagnation.

Why is it accelerationists expect us to be able to read this crap? Ummm, hello, chug means to drink... This is literal schizo nonsense. Only tranny fags pretend they can read this stuff

>>15026093
Not if based techstartup CEOs and air traffic controllers are put in charge.

Democapital will save us.

Nominoumenal exegesititistical neoprogramming territerritorializes hyperhylic dilation theory into Sinotime quantopandemic economitelligence.