/lit/ - Literature

I don't understand what the fuck you're saying. All libertarians agree with you that the state should be as small possible for the reasons you've stated; most think the state should exist purely to enforce physical crime and theft. There are very few "libertarians" who want to prohibit unions, because they believe the free market will crush the power that unions or large corporations or anything else might try to gain (and this is true - historically, monopolies have only existed due to backing from the state).

>>15017114
a lot of libertarian-leaning people seem to believe in the rights of big corporations and hate the idea of workers' rights. Is the characterization of Ancap thought in memes just a big slanderous meme because communists are terrible people? Most libertarians reject the marxist analysis of labor/value and believe in things like copyright law.

>>15017153
This is what happens when you learn your politics from image macros. No libertarian rejects the voluntary assembly of people into non-coercive groups.

>>15017153
>hate the idea of workers' rights
Also, they hate "workers' rights" as enforced by the state (e.g. minimum wage) because they are counterproductive, not because they don't want workers to have rights.

>>15017153
>believe in things like copyright law

Where do you get your information from? All I've ever seen from libertarians is contempt for copyright, or at least modern copyright.

what a shit thread

I've only ever seen libertarians oppose unions for government jobs, which makes a lot of sense considering the costs of the benefits those union members receive are hidden in taxes.

When a grocery store unionizes and the employees demand too much, the worst thing that could happen is they make the store unprofitable which results in them losing their job. This in theory at least serves as an incentive for them to be reasonable in their negotiations.

When a police station unionizes there's really no limit in what they can demand since those schools cannot be driven out of business. They'll just get more government funding. They don't have that same incentive to be fair in their negotiations which is why they get such ridiculous benefits compared to private unions.

There is something much fundamental that libertarians miss in their own logic, but I don't even want to open that can of worms.

Most libertards are against unions because they see it as creating monopoly power, while some indeed ignore this logic, yet others think that monopolies are actually beneficial because they are result of freedom.
Can't really make sense what you are trying to say in the end. You failed to demonstrate in any way how government protection helps corporations in their exploitation.

>>15017097
>caring about negative freedom in any capacity

>>15017177
A lot of people who praise unions have never actually been apart of one so they aren't aware at the level of coercive involved with them.

>>15017265
I think you're retarded

>>15017463
I think you are unable to change your own diapers

>>15017097
Lolberts tend to oppose collective bargaining. A lot of them also accept corporations as persons and think people should individually bargain, others don't and think corporations just won't exist in their fantasy land and everything will be more effective.
>A libertarian society will always be more egalitarian than a statist society, even if people are inherently unequal in ability and ambition. You either believe in freedom or you don't, there is no such thing as the freedom to exploit other.
That's a bold claim you need to prove. The USSR and 1950s America was more statist and egalitarian than the Wild West, than again you could use other examples I suppose.

>>15017216
Well that's wrong since many libertarians oppose unionism for a number of reasons. Even if you totally eliminate the public sector you still have more or less critical sectors which have more bargaining power in theory.
It's not like if all agricultural unionized farming is going to go insolvent and all farming stops. When food gets to expensive everyone demands their nominal wages go up or they starve. Unionism is always inflationary and therefor a bugaboo for the middle class savers who like prices to remain stable at any cost.

>>15017265
>You failed to demonstrate in any way how government protection helps corporations in their exploitation.
Corporations are only granted the right to exist by the government. The real problem with libertarians is they don't accept limited liability which is the most effective form of organization to ever exist. Libertarians want everyone to be fully legally liable in a way that would make business a lot more risky and not worthwhile making investments that actually benefit everyone so you'd be better off hoarding gold.

>>15017114
Unions are opposed because Austrians showed that Unions can never raise anyone's wages or make any employee's work conditions better without at the expense of other workers (or the worker in question).
That makes (voluntary) unions no better than a Ponzi scheme.

For once a thread where the libertarians are the sensible ones.

>>15017097
Sort of a left ancap and I agree with a lot of what you said particularly freedom to unionize, I'd like you to consider that corporations are not necessarily part of the free market. They're sort of government bureaucratic proxy structures within the free market, not subject to any meaningful competition due to fheir favored treatment by the fucking soft ivy league educated identity politics obsessed permanently cucked wannabe petty dictators that run the us government

>>15017810
>Austrians showed that Unions can never raise anyone's wages or make any employee's work conditions better without at the expense of other workers (or the worker in question).
I think you're confused. No one argues unions don't raise nominal wages, the Austrotards don't like them primarily for that very reason i.e. they're inflationary actors. I don't see how they claim any burden could end up being transferred totally to workers, inflation is disproportionately bad for people that live off incomes other than wages. The thing about marginal analysis is it can be used to justify unionism in a way that classical economics couldn't. The thing to remember is Austrotards are deflation fetishists and anything that causes prices to go up is ipso facto bad to them.

>>15017865
Of course corporations don't exist without a government. Anyone who has studied a free market empirically knows it's not a system conducive to generating and encouraging investment in the long run. Anarchy is anti-capitalist and ancaps are ignoramuses or deviants.