/lit/ - Literature

>>15004378
Yes please, what do you suggest, OP?

>>15004397
Vodennikov's poems are a fine place to start

>>15004378
Can you recommend a good book on the sincerity of docking with your bros?

is lil b new sincerity?

>>15004607
You should write it yourself Anon. I fully support your efforts

>>15004378
Do you not know what post modernism is?

>>15004701
Describe it in your own words.

>>15005106
Skepticism of meta-narratives

>>15004378
New Sincerity is post-modern and makes extensive use of irony

>>15005133

>>15005151
fucking retard

I'm being sincere here btw

>>15004378
Postmodetnism is about exposing paradoxes of our reality. Running from postmodernism is runing from reality, hiding from unwelcome facts.

>>15004378
hmm,yes, I believe this is what they call based

>>15005165
>exposing paradoxes
No it isn't. Who told you that?

>>15005133
What's wrong with presenting meta-narratives in a purely fictitious scenario?
Why can't postmodernist "scholars" allow for traditional hero narratives and sincerity?

>>15004608
Yes

>>15005133
>I can't say denial of the possibility of "objective truths" because that's too gauche
>I'll use the less sweeping term "scepticism" and throw the word meta in there for good measure
Are you incapable of being true to yourself?

>>15005185
traditional hero narratives are not metanarratives, try again

>>15005181
Idiot

>>15005202
I simply asked a question. Was it too challenging for you?

>>15005194
I use "sweeping" words because postmodernism is a huge, loosely defined term. I didnt just throw meta in there. Metanarrative has a specific and established meaning and if you're unfamiliar with it you shouldn't be talking about post modernism.

>>15005185
Always with the tradition and heroics with you people. Cry more. We are still inundated with hero stories, the vast majority of people still approach life in terms of good and evil and even extremely online irony-poisoned zoomers are sincere about many things. You just like to whine.

>>15005165
>Running from postmodernism is running from reality
And herein lies my main contention with this apparently infallible ideology. "Everything is postmodernism" and if you deny that absurd "truth" then you are an ignorant moron
I have seen postmodernists claim Shakespeare and Dante, the Sopranos and Star Wars, old Westerns and teen comedies. If any of them had stayed awake during Eng103 they would probably be claiming Beowulf and Gilgamesh as the next "potentially postmodern masterpieces"
Everything is postmodernism, nothing comes after postmodernism, postmodernism is omnipresent!
Ironic that an ideology so focused on "rejecting grand narratives" has essentially constructed the ballsiest and most ridiculous narrative of them all--that it is the end-all be-all, and anyone who disagrees is a sucker, an easy mark, an illiterate peon

>>15005218
>I use "sweeping" words
re-read what I wrote, dumb dumb

>>15004378
I like Infinite Jest alot but fuck David Foster Wallace for teaching a generation that irony and sincerity are opposed poles. pure Idiocy.

ITT: People who can't read the room
Post-modernism is on its way out. No one's got a name for what comes next because it's still too soon and the die-hard "words are violence" cretins are still controlling the narrative. But this literary mode will pass just like all the others
As >>15005222 said, we are currently being bombarded with the same material that several anti post-modernists argue is being taken away.
Irony and tradition are being married in a radical way. There's no telling what this particular brand of entertainment and literary thought will morph into.

>>15005239
Sorry your entire post was a dumpster fire that could've only come from someone who has only studied postmodernism on 4chan and reddit. I charitably didn't even get into the fact that meta narratives are distinct from any claim to "objective truth" unless you think Marxism is an objective truth

>>15005251
DFW was kind of a pseud but he was right, in a way. It was the Postmodernists who first decided that sincerity was something to be ashamed of
Irony / sincerity exist on the same spectrum and are closer than some people think, but Postmodernists decided somewhere along the line that sincerity is not a good vessel for ideas
There are too many academics stuffed up in their ivory towers, even now. The average man doesn't communicate the way they do, so honesty is seen as cruel and the two sides can't interact the way they once did

There isn't any sincerity today that doesn't involve denouncing the current anti-human economic system we live with, and no I'm not talking about the shitty marxist larpers

>>15005133
>asks for a definition of post modernism
>gives a definition of post structuralism
Christ

>>15005150
>modernism believes in metanarratives
>post modernism: nuh uh
>new sincerity: nuh uh x2
How is NS postmodern if it literally denies postmodernism and embraces older literary traditions?
I’m waiting

>>15005401
What's the difference? Not who you're replying to and genuinely interested.

>>15004599
thanks

>>15005406
It's postmodern because it...comes after modern

>>15004378
>irony is not a thing in 19th century or modernist works
What the fuck are you on

Fucking people keep conflating postmodernism with critical theory
>I can’t have my hero stories any more!
>nihilism everywhere, help!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory this is the cause of your problems. Not postmodernism itself, just a toxic offshoot of it

>>15005429
based retard

>>15005268
>Sorry your entire post was a dumpster fire
3/4 of it was me literally quoting you back to yourself, you utter mongoloid

>>15005534
No that was you making up a strawman. i didn't invoke "objective truths" in my post nor did I consciously avoid them. That was you regurgitating your reddit/jordan peterson education of post-modernism.

>>15005401
My definition was taken straight from Lyotard you unread dipshit

>>15005768
Anon, he posted a copypasta

>>15005406
>Infinite Jest or The Pale King
>denying postmodernism
Do you people read?

>>15005802
who?

>>15005816
The postmodernism =/= poststructuralism Christ thing, its the first part of a pasta

>>15005830
no hits on google but that's good if it is

>>15005256
>Post-modernism is on its way out
I see why you'd think that, but the timeline you're implying is too optimistic. The hero narratives mentioned in the post you replied to aren't as sign of anything getting better. They run too deep to remove because they're as close to abstracted biology lessons as you get. Social constructionists can throw as many hissy fits as they like, that shit isn't going anywhere unless you change human biology. However, you can still pollute the surface enough to have people consciously acting out what the unconscious knows is bullshit for generations to come. Even if every self-identifying postmodernist died tomorrow, postmodern thought has bled into our cultures in ways that are usually evasive and seemingly innocuous. It'll probably a few big tragedies to mostly clean it out. I think COVID will probably do a lot to help this ear of bullshit out the door. Not an expert, but I always thought this idea was interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite-stress_theory

DFW is a hack.

>>15005448
>Fucking people keep conflating postmodernism with critical theory
Want an honest answer as to why? No shit, it's fucking Jewish academics. Critical theory is associated with the Frankfurt School, and the Frankfurt School is in turn associated with Jewish scholarship. Addressing cultural marxism is commonly dismissed as an antisemitic conspiracy theory. If you call out the problem as critical theory, you'll get labeled an antisemite by your opponents. The ivory tower has been been fortifying these concepts against criticism for decades.

>>15005880
Not sure I necessarily agree with you, but I’m interested about your thoughts on Covid-19. How does the Coronavirus begin to undo Postmodernist influence, in your opinion?

>>15005448
God don’t remind me of that shit. Took a few Comm studies classes at Uni and critical theory was all they ever talked about
Funny how the old moral watchdogs used to be mainly conservative. Now its hysterical leftist academics who keep insinuating that media is making kids evil/depressed/whatever, instead of societal problems

>>15005814
You know very well /lit/ doesn't read.

What a great threat. I'm actually publishing a story (under a pseudonym) in Essential Modernities that I couldn't fit into a genre yet. I'll post it here once it's there.

>>15005222
>Always with the tradition and heroics with you people. Cry more.

>>15005968
Political attitudes are all about risk management. One of the risk factors that you find in nature is the presence of disease and parasites, and it's a huge motivator among humans. In areas where there are more infectious diseases to worry about, cultures are shown to develop a stronger aversion to risk taking and outsiders. When the heat is on, they react by becoming more conservative. When the entire planet is fixated on an infectious disease like COVID the world becomes a more vividly, tangibly threatening place in a way people can't ignore. The culture will probably react in response, in theory promoting more conservative attitudes. Liberal thinking and the ideas it produces have their purpose, but at the end of the day these ideas can only thrive under the shelter built by conservative thinking. People who are living in constant fear of coofers don't give a fuck about humoring the cultural tendrils of postmodernism, and that's those are the parts of it I was worried about sticking around. Ironically, these are the kind of ideas that can only thrive when everything is so rosy that all you have to worry about is sitting around deconstructing everything. If COVID lasts long enough, it might put enough scare in people to last. I'm not saying I even believe it myself, but I've already seen some noticeable changes in people that lean in that direction.

>>15004378
It's kinda curious, New Sincerity. It's something you can't really tag your work with

>>15004599
But I can't read Russian

>>15006696

not the guy you were replying to, but what exactly constitutes "liberal thinking and the ideas it produces"? Which of these ideas do you see being defied by the coronavirus? migration, presumably?

>>15004378
>old reddit?
>Sorry, I prefer heartfelt memes lacking in bitterness or irony
>Can I interest you in some new reddit memes?

>>15007295
Not the guy you were replying to either but I think his point is referring to Plato who said that philosophy first started to develop when the polis/economy was thriving. The priests had nothing better to do than to reflect on life. So now, with the current COVID crisis, parts of our society are decaying leaving no more room for what they used to harbor. While I think this is true I don't think it means cultural development is on a downfall, the development is still there but it's not linear. Just the fact that everyone's at home right now reflecting on life (...or binging some dumb show) is exemplary to this.

>>15008290
Just accept already that right now reddit dominates 4chan, and not the other way around. Not to say that 4chan's finished, it's working on it's comeback.