/lit/ - Literature

Gay people so aristocrats

>>14998809
ever thought of not being beta?

>>14998847
I have a life denying past and yukio mishima was a narcissist too

Confessions of a Mask was too boring and gay for me to enjoy it. Sailor was boring too. I don't like his mellow style. He comes across as someone I would not have liked.

>>14999025
You were pleb-filtered by Confessions. You can only understand it if you know about Mishima’s obsession with passive versus active nihilism, how passivity is the main theme of the novel and the protagonist’s deterministic view of his fate and life. It’s peak /lit/

>>14999824
lmao that pepe

>>14998783
fagits

>>14998809
I have nothing to add to the discussion. I just wanted to say that that perfectly describes me as well.

>>14998783
He appeals to your average /lit/ poster who has an unremarkable personal life, and tries to cope with it by pretending he's more than that by adopting aesthetic and philosophical principles he doesn't embody in the slightest.
Mishima is your typical LARPer. He was a meek socialite that engaged in effeminate activities like writing, modelling and acting, while simultaneously glorifying things like violence and death; things he had never even come close to being in contact with. The final moments of his life are sort of juvenile attempt at legitimizing himself -kind of like a wannabe rapper going to county jail for joyriding so that he can claim he's 'hard and legit', but it's a pretty see through act.

>>14998783
Me: briefly infatuated with Spring Snow as a 22 yo, interested enough to read his biography
The typical Mishimafag: a confused anime tranny zommer teen who enjoys masculine activities but enjoys masturbating to himself as a woman during sexual intercourse with a man, meanwhile considers himself heterosexual and anti-tranny and frequents /pol/ and other such cringy anime far right image boards.

>>15001760
>The final moments of his life are sort of juvenile attempt at legitimizing himself -kind of like a wannabe rapper going to county jail for joyriding so that he can claim he's 'hard and legit', but it's a pretty see through act.

This. Anyone can see that Mishima was LARPing hard, so hard he cut himself in the abdomen with surgical precision and was decapitated by his homogay lover, who was also then also decapitated for failing to decapitate him properly, as is the tradition. A true cringefest

>>15001772
What leads you to believe this?

>>15001793
Morita was not decapitated because he failed to do so to Mishima, he was because it was planned from the very beginning to do so.

>>15001760
>>15001793
>going to a military base, holding hostages, injuring someone else with a samurai sword, giving a speech to assembled soldiers and then going to spill your own guts out all over the floor is “LARPing”
Imageboard-talk has rotted your brain. Truly non-Japanese can rarely ever understand Mishima

>>15002195
I'll say it again: the final moments of his life are a juvenile attempt at legitimizing himself and it's completely transparent. He lived his whole life in direct opposition to the aesthetics and principles he espoused, a little bit theatrics at the end doesn't rectify that. If anything, his final moments are an affirmation of his playing pretend. Instead actually staging a violent military coup, he just got on a balcony, gave a gay little speech (all the while getting mocked by everybody present lmao) and then killed himself.
It's pathetically desperate.

>>15002192
He's projecting

>>15002243
Could you please show us your body?

>>15002251

>>15002195
real Japanese don't like Mishima lol

>>15002273
Nice filename edit bro

>>14999165
> Then I mentioned Mishima and the conversation turned sour....

What did the old geezer think of Mishima?

>>15002243
I've noticed very dull people do not understand the concept of immortality through self-expression .

>>15002277
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it?

>>14998965
>I even plan to kill myself after writing my magnus opum
Cringe

>>15002340
>Cringe

>>14998783
Post-Virgins, or virgins that have ascended to a level somewhere between Virgin and Chad where outside that spectrum.

>>14998783
pewdiepie?

>>14999190
There's a good breakdown by Nietzche.

We're vain either in the pursuit of impressing ourselves, or impressing others. One can be healthy, one is destructive.

>>15002582
You mean they've had sex?

>>15002243
imagine being such a brainlet western cuck

>>15002243
Exactly

>>15002243
bugman

>>14998809
are they really homosexual tendencies if the peepee is attached to a girl

>>15001547
How do you keep under control those homosexual urges? It gets pretty hard sometimes
>>15003762
Yes, a man who looks like a woman is still a man

I liked Sailor, however, I couldn't understand/empathise with him at all in Sun & Steel. It read like a drunken, cocaine rant.

>>15003792
no i meant what if it was a girl that had a strap on or did surgery to get a peepee

>>15003878
Then you aren't homosexual, but you are still a fag

>>15001760
>He was a meek socialite that engaged in effeminate activities like writing, modelling and acting, while simultaneously glorifying things like violence and death; things he had never even come close to being in contact with.

Wow, he is literally me. I’m not sure how I ought to feel about that.

>>14998783
I'm a joo and i like dead writers.

>>15003968
Me too, I feel attacked

>>15004135
I’m reading Spring Snow now and both Kiyoaki and Honda feel like 2 sides of me.

That reaction Kiyoaki has to his father suggesting that he goes and sees the Geishas is exactly how I would react in that situation. To say nothing of Honda’s spiritual fascination.

>>15002195
I was being sarcastic

>>15001760
lmaooo

>>15001760
>

>>15002340
You don't have to wait. You can kill yourself now.

>>15001760
today I realize my whole life is just me larping

>>15002243
>Instead actually staging a violent military coup, he just got on a balcony, gave a gay little speech (all the while getting mocked by everybody present lmao) and then killed himself.

Mishima was anticipating a student rebellion that never happened. He was planning to fight Marxists. He eventually reasoned that there was not much more he could do given all those plans didn't come through. His suicide is very complicated and "legitimizing himself" is a vague reduction. Also, I hope you realize that he planned to die that day and it was something he had planned for years. Anyways, more and more Japanese now realize how right he was as time has passed. He was a great man, though troubled and complicated.

>He lived his whole life in direct opposition to the aesthetics and principles he espoused
A good portion of it was and that was what motivated him to change. I don't see how his later years were not increasingly becoming aligned with his ideals.

>>14998783
Because I'm a nationalist angry with my own country but also a dumb romantic

>>15002277
you're basing this on what?

>>15004532
what's your country

>>14999165
What did the old guy say about Mishima?

>>15004571
Israel

>>14998783
This is Pewdiepie's favorite author.

>>14999824
cuuuuute

>>15004958
How was the Israeli army

>>15002243
>gave a gay little speech (all the while getting mocked by everybody present lmao)

That was partially because all the actual JSDF soldiers, the people he had aimed his speech at, had left the base that day and were doing drills at Mt. Fuji. The people who actually heard his speech were the skeleton crew and janitorial staff. If the soldiers had been there that morning, it's possible his reception might have been a little warmer

>>15005973
If the real military was there he might not have made it to the balcony

>>15002243
You have never read Mishima

>>15004532
what makes you angry with ur own country

>>15002277
They aren't "real" Japanese if they dislike Mishima. Every Non-Japanese Mishima fan has a greater right to call their self Japanese than an anti-Mishima cuck. QED

>>15006076
Fair point.

>>15006657
mishima is the beta here. i heard he went to the US looking for a white man to fuck and nobody would fuck him except his last day at the US

>>15006756
Bullshit, Mishima would cut your head off for talking shit too. Watch it, Circassian.

>>15007129
Holy shit reeks of insecurity lmao

He was a neckbeard with a mall katana before it was a thing

I wonder what exactly Mishima would have needed to do to not get shat on by people.

Japanese most succesful writer and playwright during his time, still read, still discussed, still impacting many lifes.

Homosexual but bossed it, had a wife that he loved and that loved him, raised children, kept his homosexuality both a secret, but also lived it out and expressed it artisticially.

One of the great scholars of his time, which shows particularly in his study of japanese history and language, reviving the old but dead japanese language on stage, well versed in many languages and history of world literature as well

Was brought up by a psycho grandma in an abusive household, was sick during all of his childhood but actually did a 180 and went beast mode with his body.

Workaholic that dedicated his whole existance towards his craft

A stylistical master, constantly shifting and reinventing his writing and his themes. The tetralogy is a great testament to this.

An ideologue in the nietzschean sense, as so far as he has mastered truth through irony and yet understanding the virtue of truth. An active nihilist if there has been one, one which can give birth to meaning and truth within an vacuum.

Unadapated and thorough with the believes embedded in his personality, turned himself into an embodiment of his desires, overcoming fear and self-hatred, proving that LARPing is not an illusion but constitutes reality, proving this point by giving it an undeniable reality through his death.

Something which has to be considered, but that can simply not be relived, is that supposedly he behaved like an extravagant Dandy in Tokyo at his time, and i think this is where a lot of hate from people engaged with literature in japan stems from. He seems to have behaved with self-importance grandeur and seeking media attention all the time, to the point that nobody realized until his death that he actually meant anything he was writing. Many people in japan, so atleast state the biographies, saw him as nothing but an ironic jester. I think this has fostered a lot of envy, and as is natural in japan, a distaste for his unethical and immodest behaviour. Naturally i would say that the death ought have had to prove them wrong and lay open the immense tragedy but also the immense success in his death, but it is understandable that many would interpret his death as the most insulting act of vanity and self-absorbance and thus start to feel ashamed that he represented japan internationally.

I think that our disconnected view of him is more accurate though. Getting to know him through his books, his plays, his film and his death, and not the media persona that every japanese was exposed to during his life, we see a very emotional, dream-obsessed romantic, struggling with his own demons, lost in his own passions but managing to conquer them, to rule over them and transform himself.

Mishima makes people around him seethe so hard because he was quite literally an Übermensch in the Nietzschean sense. Seethe harder, last men

I like a good love story, Spring Snow and Sound of Waves are both great love stories, simple as.

>>15007786
How are they love stories

>>15007901
Because I said so

>>15004653
>>15002291

From memory he just quietly said something like
>oh... right wing, right wing, fascist...

Then kinda lost enthusiasm for the rest of the conversation.

>>14999928
LOL /lit/fags get wrecked

>>14999165
Bringing up Mishima is like bringing up Machiavelli... just don't do it.

>>15007901
How are they not love stories?

>>15007920
Sounds like a cuck. Mishima BTFO’d lefties constantly.
https://youtu.be/AgopXaKfP1Y

>>15007920
He staged one of the cringiest LARPs in Japanese literary history, not surprised they think on him with shame

>he's a beta pretending to be an alpha
Lol. It's so easy to say that after someone's death. He was a literary celebrity. If you were alive at the same time as him, his mere presence would have intimidated you. What metric is there to prove someone is a "real alpha"? He had all the success in the world, he had his own loony cult for fuck's sake. OP you are fucking delusional.

>>15008095
yah his own loony cult of lost souls who are also LARPers who cant even cut his head off right

i'll pass

>>15008152
Everybody is a LARPer in some sort of way anon

>>15007676
good post

>proving that LARPing is not an illusion but constitutes reality, proving this point by giving it an undeniable reality through his death.

You are what you pretend to be

>I think that our disconnected view of him is more accurate though. Getting to know him through his books, his plays, his film and his death, and not the media persona that every japanese was exposed to during his life, we see a very emotional, dream-obsessed romantic, struggling with his own demons, lost in his own passions but managing to conquer them, to rule over them and transform himself.

Is a disconnected view really more accurate though? What is real: what one aspires to be deep in the heart, or what they are in meatspace?

Example: A strong man who does physical work and harpoons whales in the Arctic won't be sitting around coming up with some fantastical story about physical work and harpooning whales in the Arctic, let alone reading about it. It's usually the nerdy physically weaker types who are drawn to such stories (like you, like me, like Mishima). The things Ernest Hemingway thinks about, for example, most men never have to think about it because they do it.

>>15008152
pass on what? You think just because you disagree with someone they're pretending or something? What is even your point at this point? Calling mishima a "fake" or a "pretender" is obviously fucking dumb, because if you do that, you accuse literally everyone else of too being fake and pretenders, which means that no one is a pretender or fake.

>>15007526
>neckbeard
He was fit, Circassian.

stay discontent

>>15007753
It's really ironic to see what are most likely neckbeards and weebs calling a fit traditionalist writer who committed seppuku and lived by his code a "larper."

>>15007901
Spring Snow is about the love Kiyoaki has for Satoko which can not be fulfilled. That is the basic theme of the whole book.

>>15008206
Mishima was not weak. Just look at him.

>>15008739
he started weak, though he became physically strong at the end. if he was born strong to normal parents and had a healthy childhood he probably wouldnt be writing about the things he writes about because he would be too busy being strong and healthy and happy

>>15007129
https://youtu.be/Ctufj50w9a0
36:27

>>15004571
>>15006517
Italy
Corruption, lack of national unity, fear for the future instead of working for a better one, younger generation that rather go away to live in shittier places rather than stay here because seems like this country is the reason for them being failure

Where should I start/what order should I roll with for Mishima?

>>15009511
Temple of the Golden Pavilion, Confessions of a Mask, some of his short stories like Patriotism, the tetralogy

bump

>>15007676
>proving that LARPing is not an illusion but constitutes reality
Great line and great post.

>>15009480
whats corrupt about it? i thought italy was great

>>15003856
Opposite for me. Found Sailor rather boring, but enjoyed S&S immensely.

>>15012496
I cant find sun and steel anywhere, do you have a link?

>>15013293
https://filebin.net/ka4lbjg73ip1sps8/sunAndSteel.pdf?t=r9n1btuy

>>15007901
How are they not love stories?
Specially Sound of Waves

>>15013639
>Miwa Akihiro
What other popular trannies did Mishima fuck?

>>15013717
That's a man?

Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong board. /int/ is two blocks down

>>15007676
I agree with most of this but I think it's pretty inescapable that his death, and whatever the events up to it were supposed to achieve, were an utter failure

>>14998783
gay people

>>15014141
Yes, this twink

>>15014677
Don't ever talk to me or my tranny gf again

>>15014599
Yeah, if mishima had more sense he would've stuck around to grow his army more but no, he tried to die an artist death that was cringey

>tfw you will never fuck him hard

>>15008739
He looks extremely weak even at his "fittest". As if his body wasn't supposed to hold this little bit of muscle he gained through harsh training.

You're average fatty looks stronger than Mishima

>>15015687
so who's gonna be the top?

>>15014677
lmfao he looks like a jojo character

>>15015930
Me. Mishima looked like a self-loathing bottom who secretly loved being submissive (and that's very hot).

>>14998783
OP, look at the picture you posted, and then look at yourself in the mirror. Capish?

Objectively speaking, his image is not one who comes from insecurity, or "Betaness", he was a confident young man with the spirit of a vital Nippon empire. What does one take away from this? He had a fighting spirit, he did physical acts of rebellion and not just in writing, he took action and when it all went to shit because everyone else was too scared and pathetic (the real Betas) he took his own life in a ritual suicide. Respect this man, you are nothing OP, not worthy of breathing.

>>15008064
Cringe? Post your body phaggot. I could already picture how you look.

>>15016068
im in the military, this man's physique isn't that special

Speaking as a non-Japanese: I understand absolutely nothing about what he stood for, why he valued it, why he did what he did, etc. Viewed through a Western lens, however, he seemed like quite the f****t.

>>15016301
Did you read Sun and Steel? You'll get the gist if you watch the Schrader movie too.

because I'm gay and based so confessions of a mask speaks to me

>>14998783
I want a body like that. Someone take me to the gym so I can achieve a body like that.

>>15017507
you don't need a gym for that kind of body. Just starve yourself and do an extreme amount of pushups and pullups everyday.

>>15017516
I'm not overweight.

>>14998783
>What kind of person likes Yukio Mishima?
Faggots.
>And why is he so liked on this board? Faggots.

>>15017523
The starving yourself part still counts since Mishima forever held a pretty low bodyfat percentage

>>15017556
thats not lower body fat percentage

boomp

>>14998940
Becoming not beta is like becoming not schizophrenic. It doesn't happen. It's part of you. Accept it.

>>15018542
some men are made to be cucked

>>15018838
Aye, without the basedjak there could be no gigachad.
We thank the cucks for their sacrifice.

>>14998783
Once I've read sun and steel I understood why I was drawn to him. Never before have I seen someone share such similar views on beauty with myself.

>>14998783
Movie on him wasn't very good but Lucy Cantin's Lacanian essay on him was great.

>>15019335
his take on beauty is shallow though

>>15019409
What about his silent movie "Patriotism?"

>>15020517
The short story was fantastic. Didn’t care for the movie much

>this thread

>>15017507
You've got to have a lithe frame for that physique, at which point you need to approach your limit in upper body strength (basically classical bodybuilding but with more pec emphasis) without adding much actual mass, unless you're starting from skeletonmode (which Mishima probably was). High protein, maintenance or slightly higher caloric intake.
You could get much of the way to that with bodyweight or high-volume weight training>
>15017867
He's probably 10-12% in the OP pic, which is the low end of what you can achieve naturally without extreme cutting

t. /fitlit/

bump

>>15016068
he took action and failed and he pretty much knew it was gonna fail. he gestured, he didn't act.

>>15021645
ngl this is pretty hilarious

>>15021645
As I've said before, he suicide was pseudo in character because he did it with the self awareness of making ones life a work of art. However because he did in fact have political aims and ends as a result from it, the death still stands as a heroic one and not pseudo-characteristic, at least entirely.

>>15022995
>he did it with the self awareness of making ones life a work of art

sounds like narcissism

you're the main character in the movie in your head

Is Sun and Steel a decent place to start with him

>>15023163
The Sailor Who Fell from Grace With the Sea is generally considered the best starting place. Patriotism also.

>>15023057
>you're the main character in the movie in your head
If that's not the case in your life, you have serious problems

>>14998783
manlet rage with repressed homosexuality

>>15002243
This is the negative side of the truth. Chasing aesthetic life leads to insanity. His deepest inner self urge portrayed in the type of death he chose and that was to divide his mind and his being from the body he glorified.

As a writer I agree that he is overrated.

>>15024299
>as a writer
You should have said that earlier so I would avoided to read your post, unironically
if you are a writer in 2020 you are a midwit and don't belong on /lit/

>>15024299
I just threw up a little in my mouth.

>>15023057
>sounds like narcissism
Well fucking obviously; before I continue I must prelude by explaining the point, which is that Mr. Mishima had an incredibly interesting psyche-- all his various artistic traits, homosexuality, vanity, masachism/sadism, hero worship, political views and genius and philosophy of a sort of "Active nihilism" work together to create it; an interesting life. To assert life completely in the natural realm is to find its most defining elements, and in the dualistic or really imitative(non-dual) character of the East Asians but specifically of Japan he looks to Death and Life, and the erotic and beauty and the hero and youth and such. All fitting perfectly into his own conception of himself and the world(which is a valid one though obviously decadent), creating something beautiful in the world(active nihilism but because of being part of that whole East Asian world you must understand the conception of nihilism was not expressed in the Western way of a "desolation" but almost continued with their previous religious character, for Mishima at least) which in turn is the making of your life an artwork, but because his life and himself worked so perfectly with each other the neither doubting the other but accepting their synonymoty(again one shouldn't make the mistake that his world view was necessarily wrong), it is true his life became an artwork. However as I said it wasn't entirely pseudo-relational in character because a part of him did have sincere self-sacrificing desire for something other, that is Japan and his people and the political ends it would lead to and such and such.

The merging of opposites(the most valuable things in natural life are separated like that) and so as to find itself in moral ambiguous waters. There is no strict moral accent, only the natural development and beauty and greatness and the hero and so on. Which was obviously influenced by his homosexuality and makes his art interesting in that moral respect-- whereas of course Goethe or Dante are not. Pick anything you like, and it can be traced back to some reason which itself is aesthetically perfect with his worldview, or you can say with himself. His body worship is of course his homosexuality, and the masochism/sadism in turns with this. Whereas the hero worship for him is very physical(some of his own insecurity's like smallness and ugliness) in contrast to the more traditional Western and Carlylian understanding. For a childish expression, he as a life and person is a treasure trove of things(or content) to peel off almost like one does with a gimmick.

>>15002195
He had the power to break the Japanese spirit from pagan history and to bring it closer to Christian teaching but he failed. That picture speaks a lot.

That picture tells where his life of glorifying body and shabby aesthetics took him. The desire to separate his mind and his soul from the decaying body became so suppressed and unconscious that it took him to death.

The Sailor book was interesting but I'm still confused whether he supported this romantisied way of living or if he's just trying to express the idea.
Not a big fan of his view if it's the former
>>15024373
Good post

>>14998783

How come the Japanese have rarely provided any good works of literature to the world?

>>15024957
they have good stories, just not through literature

boomp

>>15024957
They have no souls.
Besides their culture doesn't seem to Foster artistic pursuits.
Seems like most of them are just conditioned to wage cuck until oblivion.

>>14998965
>I even plan to kill myself after writing my magnus opum.
can I get a based check?

>>15007949
Leftists are constantly preeneing and self censoring for approval

Sad

>>15007676
He’s hated by weak leftists because he took a stand against neoliberals (which they are all impotent against) and the political left

>>15023057
Brainlet response, you got BTFO

>>14998783

Mishima represents the ideal man and the ideal path a man's life must take
He was gifted with intelligence and talent as all men are
He transformed this into fame and renown through many struggles as all men must have
Then finally he rejected it all in the pursuit of becoming what a man really is: his actions
And in the prime of his life he died by those actions and thus lived eternally
Like any great drama a great man's life must have 3 acts and so to live such a life must as well be a great privilege

I could poeticize and stroke my ego about appreciating higher ideals or whatever, but I think the truth for most of us in the Western world is that I'm deeply bored and filled with constant dread by the ugly graceless safety of modern Western living. Mishima was a man who desperately fought back against the disgusting mechanations of a society that was just beginning its transformation to the territorialized nightmare of modernity.

He failed to fight back against it, and as he failed he fell deeper into delusion and roleplaying to cope, but he took the fight further than any of us would, or even could, given that he had the privilege of living during a place in time where there was even any hope of fighting back against the Spectacle, regardless of its impossible odds.

Mishima is like the small gay human embodiment of the internal scream of modern commodified man.

>>15009511
Confessions of a Mask, The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea then Temple of the Golden Pavilion

>>15028231
i feel this

its too comfortable that it made us weak

>>15028231
He fought it for a moments while finding commodity in fame and "aesthetic" lifestyle. Yourself making your life a "work of art" is the same mistake that Western man makes when he plays by rules of western society.
It's only the concept of art that makes the difference but they are both deceived in the same way... according to their natures.

Confessions of a mask, besides many flaws, is the result of his soul fighting to find the truth and that's her value and "aesthetics". Sailor doesn't have that.

Seeking truth is making one's life beautiful while every life is work of art.

>>15002273
Rule number 1 of posting body is to post timestamp with it, otherwise fake