/lit/ - Literature

>>14997079
I liked it on everything except his approach to psychiatry

>>14997079
>late capitalism

>>14997096
I've read the book a long time ago, what did he say about it?

>>14997098
Ignore the leftist obsession with characterizing "stages of capitalism" and focus on the meat of what he's saying.

>>14997116

>>14997109
He thinks people's mental health issues are due to capitalism and psychiatry provides an alternative explanation for their issues and treats them to sublimate the sick person's imperative to change their environment.
Basically lexapro is delaying a revolution.

I'm a psychiatry resident so I'm biased but I think the treatment of mental illness with pharmaceuticals and therapy is more of a practical approach to a transcendent problem which definitely has something to do with the economic system, but the issue would exist under post-capitalism as it existed under pre-capitalism.

It's like saying civil engineers getting people water are delaying the revolution because they're sating people's thirst which should be a driver of political change. We'd need civil engineers and running water under any political or economic system as long as we want to stay healthy and well hydrated.

>>14997116
What does this have to do with capitalism?

>>14997126

>>14997154

>>14997109
>>14997133
Relevant excerpt

>>14997133
I somewhat agree with him in a more general, less clinical sense, even though I don't subscribe to any leftist ideals
Capitalism has been depriving us of human comfort in the truest sense ever since we've started to be fed the marketing model
It's harder and harder to be mentally stable when you're bombarded nonstop with notions of inadequacy that cause alienation, even though this isn't done in a conspiratory way (they just want to sell us things)
We're growing more and more isolated and our means of socialization are getting more and more "privatized" and controlled by marketing outlets, to the point where you can't escape it and lead a normal life thinking for yourself
Google's wet dream is having a device on your brain feeding you stuff based on your unconscious thoughts

>>14997205
Right. He thinks that the chemico-biological approach is an explanation for mental illness rather than a basis for solution.
You are not necessarily sick because of your brain chemistry, but the only way we've had any success in keeping people from killing themselves is through brain chemistry alterations, so that's what we're going to do.
The spleen and tonsils are not the cause of sickle cell anemia, but removal is our only way to prevent certain shitty outcomes. He's confusing a practical solution for a comprehensive explanation.
That said, I blame the entire world of academic psychology for overtheorizing without rigor or need for high quality evidence leading to a public perception of them having figured out complete theories of mind. Everyone should know about the replication crisis.

>>14997232
I agree these are issues and underlie a lot of people's mental anguish.

>>14997133
>but the issue would exist under post-capitalism as it existed under pre-capitalism
not necessarily true. You look at the way the archetypal village idiot was treated in medieval times, their neighbours were far more tolerant and respectful to the deranged than we are today. Many even believed that they provided a vital service to or enriched their community. During carnival they would even elect one of these people as a kind of mock pope and celebrate them with a parade.

>>14997249
We were pretty universally cruel to the retarded throughout history. The idea that they might have a subjective experience we should prioritize is only a few decades old.
I don't know much about the medieval period but the custom you describe sounds cruel to me.

>>14997079
You're not supposed to treat this book seriously. It should only serve as a motivation to delve into Marx.

>>14997205
Extremely pertinent. How do you feel about the recent Fed injections and corporate bailouts?

>can't even escape infection on 4chan

>>14997079
It's midwit crap

>>14997133
Isn't that the same kinda stuff D&G were saying about psychoanalysis in anti-oedipus? Would you say that that these attacks on mental-health work are often attacking the wrong thing?

>>14997271
crueller than locking them up in a cage?

What about keynsianism?

Bullshit book.

>>14998479
Keynesianism does not work.

>>14998479
Keynesianism is just a form of liberalism. Keynes himself was a liberal and by no means a socialist. The only reason contemporary social democrats have been pushing it is due to economy being overwhelmingly liberal in both academia and policy.

>>14997079
Why did he kill himself?

>>14997232
im far left. couldnt agree more

>>14997636
No, Guattari is talking about constructing hierarchical models of the mind and was actually pretty spot-on. In my opinion.
>>14997721
Easily.

>>14998570
Horrible lifelong unmitigated depression

>>14998571
I'm far-right and also agree, want to marry me and sire nazbol babies?

Is he a Distributist?

>>14998570
https://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=12841

>>14997614
How can anyone be so wrong?

>>14997133
That's a false analogy because capitalism in itself doesn't generate our thirst. On the other hand, you could say that capitalism generates mental health issues in people. Not all mental issues, but a significant portion, in my opinion, come from material issues directly related to capitalism.

>>14998774
Was he the first neet?

>>14997133
psychotherapeutic forms of subjectivation are really as arbitrary as older religious ones, in pre contemporary times, the emphasis was not on 'feeling good' but on saving one's soul. Capitalism doesn't prioritize health, self realisation or mental wellbeing far enough. mental health cannot be understood in separation form culture and economics.

In my experience, anti depressants have felt deadening and my experience with cognitive behavioural therapy, the contracts, scripts, being told to watch tv and identify with pop culture role models, constantly reminded I am a free individual- alienating enough to send me running. I was categorised someone on the autistic spectrum, all throughout my school experience i experienced problems with organization and sometimes traumatic difficulties when it came to relating to others. Identity politics and psychiatry partake in the same sort of social taylorism and hyperindividualism that lead 'divergent' people to be alienated from society in the first place, as well as essentially being a renouncement of our ability to interpret and criticise a society that is obviously sick. The 'liberated individual' left in the wake of the dissolution of these traditional structures can be childish and spiteful, tormented by a deep sense of insecurity

I think Fisher draws a lot from RD Laing and the 70s antipsychiary movement(fascinating to see connections like Laing's collaboration with Paul Watzlawick(we cannot not communicate) cybernetic polymath gregory Bateson(schizophrenic double binds and balinese plateaus which would latter inspire deleuzoguattarians) which I would temper in turn with Christopher Lasch's dialectic critique of the therapeutic ethic. I think there are valuable things to be rescued from 70s countercultural obscura along with classical christian traditions of virtue, and german romantic bildung it is a question of finding a means to go beyond the narrow selves which the system insist in constructing

>>14997079
It's a worthwhile read, but the problem with it is that you have to have a better and alternative system to offer to the people, otherwise the whole damn thing becomes a meaningless critique of the system. People can't switch to something more hopeful if there isn't a new alternative. Hoffer talks about this in "The True Believer" (pic related).

>>15000000

>>14998743
>dude if we are just good and godly then the wealthy will share there wealth with us
genius economic system

>>14998743
>tfw laschian anarcho catholic and whole earth catalog subscriber, guild socialist, currently engaged in an effort to build a geodesic dome colony neo fourierist phalanstere in new england along with a motley crew of quakers boomer hippies and transcendentalists

>>14997622
admittedly yes, Fisher believed in popular education and the need for convincing everyday people of radical ideas, true leftism is anti-elitist by nature, but the sort of anti elitism that doesn't look down on the massses but attempts to challenge them and transform them.

>>15000593
try Buddhism and meditation instead
also, read 'MahaPrajnaParamita-Sastra' by Nagarjuna

>the future has been cance-

>>14997249
>>14997721
It's laughable that you think the village idiot trope actually reflects how retarded or insane people were treated in the past. You're confusing reality with something you probably saw in a Monty Python skit or The Simpsons.

>>15000607
>muh trannycore proves there's a future
k

I think he killed himself because diversity stopped him getting a job. this is his best writing
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exiting-vampire-castle/

>>14997133
>left disproportionately full of mentally ill tranny sodomites
>CAPITALISM CAUSES MENTAL ILLNESS
Did Fisher kill himself because of capitalism? Or was it because the stupid cunt dedicated his life to sucking off the powers that he nominally opposed? Stupid fucking faggot.

>>15002006
>vampire castle
No wonder this coinage never caught on. Cringy shit.

>>14997133
Any society based on the exploitation of others work is going to create mental issues.

chesterton said it better

"Every tramp who is sulk, every labourer who is shy, every rustic who is eccentric, can quite easily be brought under such conditions as were designed for homicidal maniacs. That is the situation; and that is the point … we are already under the Eugenist State; and nothing remains to us but rebellion."

>>14997249
>During carnival they would even elect one of these people as a kind of mock pope and celebrate them with a parade.
Then abandon them to perish in the wilderness when the novelty of their weirdness wears off, or whatever grim nook in the scheme of things they usually inhabit becomes uninhabitable or irksome to the community.
>>15001556
I didn't exactly laugh, since demography is a mighty baffling subject not just to today's village idiots, but to more than half of today's subjects of it, on whom I refrain from dispensing retarded wojaks unless their ignorance is willful.

>>14999964
Sure but the solution to an individual remains the same.
A lot of these psychiatric illnesses are hereditary, and go back through generations to pre-industrial times so you can't really say modern capitalism has caused them. Aggravated them, sure. Made them more damaging, sure. The problem remains the same.