/lit/ - Literature

>>14987635
practicing neo-aristotelian (pagan) virtue ethics

>>14987637
>dude how do we know what’s ethical?
>easy, just look at the ethical people and do what they do
great system jackass

>>14987642
You seem to be implying that there is a system somewhere that actually does something else.

You don't. Because morality itself is based in the development of civilization. Hence rejecting it would be embracing a destructive nature to civilization and thus always be amoral. You would simply have to be a destructive dick everywhere you go to be "rid" of morality.

>>14987635
Read Derrida, you'll spot metaphysics of presence in no time
>>14987637
Metaphysics of presence

There is no morality without God.

>>14987676
Theres God without christianity..

Japanese ultranationalism.

There are plenty of alternatives to christianity. My preference is putting the wellbeing of family, community, and nation at the front of my decision making process in that order. Rejecting notions of what is acceptable in the process of securing that wellbeing is a rejection of Christian mortality.

>>14987635
ITS COMING
POSTMODERNISM IS
POLYTHEISTIC POST-CHRISTIANITY

>>14987635
What is shameful about Christian mortality? With it many people throughout history came to realize pagan virtues such as duty and piety from it while being infused with traditionally Christian virtues such as temperance and humility. I'm not trying to defend Christianity, just wanting to understand why philosophers such as Nietzsche saw Christianity as a slave moralitu.

>>14987775
He viewed Christian mortality as slave morality beacuse christianity championed values such as empathy, kindness and sympathy. Such values were those held by people who were put upon, exploited. Unlike the values held by 'masters' such as power and pride slave morality is a nessicary reaction to, not an assertion of. The pagan influence on christianity is just that, pagan. The mixing of these values is in many ways a contradiction of christianity fundamentally.

>>14987775
He viewed Christian mortality as slave morality beacuse christianity championed values such as empathy, kindness and sympathy. Such values were those held by people who were put upon, exploited. Unlike the values held by 'masters' such as power and pride slave morality is a necessary reaction to, not an assertion of. The pagan influence on christianity is just that, pagan. The mixing of these values is in many ways a contradiction of christianity fundamentally.

>>14987775
Christian mortality is shameful from a master's point of view because it is weak and effeminate.

>>14987775
His father didnt love him or some shit, Nietzschschschscheeee just sound buttblasted.

>>14987635
you don't rid yourself of it, you overcome it. internalised law it's fundamental for western civilised thought and spirit, and that is inherently christian...

just live and put yourself into something great; don't be a larper like Varg; just keep in mind the Nicomachean Ethics.

Remember, praxis is nothing without poiesis

asking is just replacing christianity's values with the rule-set of another person's system. Create your own damn you and quit asking.

>>14987775
Not Nietzsche's words, but in my opinion it is shameful because most of the time, Christians only follow their professed morality because they are afraid of retribution. What they do is not moral but obligation out of fear. Of course there are exceptions, but I don't think you can be honest in saying these are anything but exceptions.
As long as there is the looming threat of hell, of not being elect, of accruing sin, Christianity will mostly be a false morality.

>>14987958
>>14987916
>>14987963

Empathy doesn't mean that you'll become a degenerate.

The most christian example of a nation are spanish american during imperial times and Rhodesia.

Niggers were better under Chad Smith, cause Smith knew that white ruling is better than black savagery, and that the only way to make the negroes be close to civilisation was apatheid; and he internalised that, just like all rhodesians, so they went to war to fight and die for it, even tho most of the world despise them for being "racist"... they were abandonned to their faith, there was no God but the faith unto themselves: that's christianity.

BTW, look at Zimbabwe now, kek.

Being a Christian means basically this: you're forsaken, you're abandonned, you're alone; but that no excuse for not doing what you think is right and what's better for mankind.

That's why judaism and islam have taqiyya but christianity doesn't

>>14988002
PS: in catholicism is sublimated roman paganism and greek ethos

>>14988002
Interesting take on Christianity. Reminiscent of Zizek?

From my understanding this is not how christianity is conventionally understood by Christians and is almost certainly a form of heresy. This would perhaps be the view if it was believed Jesus never rose from the dead.

>>14987635
Life was great before Christianity. .

Christianity today is a pathetic cult of wealth and happiness. Atheists are pathetic because they push socialism and liberal policies and are even more utopic than the Christians.

The real Christianity were good to society development, but that kind of faith no longer exists, there is only money.

Ethics are independent of a belief in god.

>>14987775
When Nietzsche uses the terms "slave morality" and "master morality" he's using them very literally. One is the kind of morality a slave would come up with, the other is the kind of morality a slave-owner would come up with. Neither term is one of approval or condemnation (necessarily).

Christianity is all about mercy, forgiveness, egalitarianism and above all else the idea that we deserve bad things. The lower your self esteem the more interesting that would be to you, is Nietzsche's basic idea.

>>14989251
no, justice is also a christian ethic, no koombahya bullshit

>>14989264
Justice is a value of all systems of morality. The most basic question that they're all setting out to answer is "what is just"?

Christianity has a particular, distinctive concept of justice that's completely shaped by the values I outlined there. For Christianity the goal of justice is repentance, that wrong-doers can see their crimes and truly atone for them as all of us are guilty of crimes that we need to atone for. A just society for Christians is a relatively equal society. This is very different than say Shariah law which includes strong retributivist imperatives or modern day conceptions of a just society as a "free" society.

You can't just say "Justice is a Christian ethic". It's more accurate to say that for Christianity justice is mercy.

>>14987635
There is a theme in Western culture that is wholly un-Christian that emphasizes life as an adventure and process of discovery, embraces the unknown and finds satisfaction in worldly wonder. It is from this spirit that modern science originated and owes its success. It is never found in the compulsion of necessity, moral or otherwise, but is whispered through inspiration by the suggestion of unexplored possibilities. The question mark is its holy symbol.
The Christian takes refuge in the promise of certainty and eternal permanence, the guarantee of success if one follows the necessary path ordained by an absolute central authority; it seeks to abolish all risk of failure. Adventure embraces risk and uncertainty, it wagers life itself and all meaning in pursuit. It is an intensely erotic relationship with the fullness of one's life and everything involved with it.
Wonder is an unexpected experience, a feeling of surprise at previously undisclosed beauty. It is a fleeting intensity, when it becomes routine it is wholly lost, and so it is always on the move - even when it rediscovers novelty in previously explored terrain.
Here's three short videos and a comic that will hopefully give an intuitive feel of this spirituality from people who have been greatly moved by it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxVVm75k_8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLigBYhdUDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP1dnBONkG8
http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park

>>14987635
Become As Gods

>>14987635
>>14987775
>Nevertheless it is quite appalling to find this philosophy, based as it is on the most perfect of ethics, described as shorn of hope; from which it follows, that we wish to be of good hope without the consciousness of true morality. That upon this very depravation of men's hearts rests Schopenhauer's relentless condemnation of the world—in its only aspect shewn to us by history,—affrights all those who take no pains to track the paths so plainly traced by Schopenhauer for turning the misguided Will. Yet these paths, which well may lead to hope, are clearly and distinctly pointed out by our philosopher, and it is not his fault if he was so fully occupied with the correct portrayal of the only world that lay before him, that he was compelled to leave their actual exploration to our own selves; for they brook no journeying save on foot.
>Should that succeed, the beneficial, the truly regenerative result were then immeasurable; for on the contrary we see to what mental and moral unfitness the lack of a right, all-permeating knowledge of the world's root-essence has now debased us.
>The surest, nay, in our opinion almost the only thing to lead to this, would be a wise employment of the Schopenhauerian philosophy, whose outcome, to the shame of every earlier philosophic system, is the recognition of a moral meaning of the world; which crown of all Knowledge might then be practically realised [260] through Schopenhauer's Ethics. Only the love that springs from pity, and carries its compassion to the utmost breaking of self-will, is the redeeming Christian Love, in which Faith and Hope are both included of a—Faith as the unwavering consciousness of that moral meaning of the world, confirmed by the most divine exemplar; Hope as the blessed sense of the impossibility of any cheating of this consciousness.
Nietzsche btfo'd.

>>14989338
Holy shit you are a retard. There was not a single great revolutionising figure in pre-modern history who did what he did out of a complete disconnection from religious or human nature; or all the more the prior as the latter ("in relation to a root essence of the world"), that is, without the flourishing of both- most obviously. This petty drive you describe is a nothing of pure nihilistic norminity "let magic bootiful".

I'm aware of the dumbing

>>14989513
I'm sorry you feel that way. :)

>>14987758
And if you think about it from the perspective of what would be best for raising healthy children, it's pretty easy to identify every form of virtue as being instinctive. It cuts through all bullshit.

>>14989338
You are basically describing the journeys of discovery that Wotan or Donar make in the ancient stories, when they travel around the worlds, looking for new knowledge and power.

>>14987976
Internalized law existed long before the cradling of Christianity

>>14989602
Exactly

>>14987668
>Derrida's deconstruction isnt a gateway to love the weak and to forgive the sinful
Bitch derrida is full on christian morality you ass