/lit/ - Literature

>>14925533
>Have any authors accurately described it?
Tolstoy in Anna Karenina

>>14925533
fraulein else

>>14925533
>Have any authors accurately described it?
How about a 4chan poster?

>>14925542
>Not written by a woman.
Discarded.

>>14925595

>>14925581
Women cant write for shit

>>14925647
0/10

>>14925533
It depends on the female
Women are individuals, you can't judge an entire gender from what a few authors (or incels) write

>>14925687
hahahahahahahahhaha
You're right. Of course. All women are individuals. There are no uniformities to be found in their experience. Matter of fact, we should get rid of of the category of a "woman" entirely - since it's meaningless. There are just individuals, all born as blank slates, all having their individual completely unique experience.

>>14925542
I read this. What else?

>>14925533
Well do you remember what it was like being a child? It's like that

>>14925647
That may or may not be, but I do not believe any male can accurately into the female experience.

>Matter of fact, we should get rid of of the category of a "woman" entirely - since it's meaningless. There are just individuals, all born as blank slates, all having their individual completely unique experience.
This, but unironically.

>you only receive attention as a child when you cry, so you do, often. you stop when you start to notice your mother rolling her eyes
>your girlhood happiness ends at age 8 when one of your fathers' friends tells you how pretty your hair is and strokes it and you cry and everyone laughs. you learn that your pain is a joke
>you briefly but totally abandon your authentic self, which you will never recover, as you first experimentally minimize yourself between ages 10-13
>you suffer ceaseless body horror as you watch your body stretch and tear in ways that you can understand only as pathological
>because it seems people hate everything you like, you learn to pace things just right, so that you hate them almost before you even really like them
>time becomes telescopic. you lucidly relate to yourself as a young girl and vividly anticipate yourself as an older woman. you're optimistic, maybe for years. you begin to feel the flutters of something maternal, somewhere near your liver
>you find a man you can see yourself being with, really being with. you tell your friends you might get married. he fucks another woman. you're still young, but she's younger
>you date someone else. you have a pregnancy scare, but you kill it. you don't tell him. you break up with him because of it, but you tell him it's because you are studying abroad and can't do the distance
>you date someone else. you're tired. he reminds you of a boy you used to like, which you guess is enough for you now. you get pregnant
>you have his kid, or two of them. he gets a vasectomy. he tests it out on his coworker. you stay together, for the kids
>now that you have children, you can't seem to recall that you ever were one yourself. you make all the wrong choices. they tell you they hate you. they suck up to their pervert father. you tell yourself it's okay, that as long as you keep them alive, you're doing okay
>it's your birthday. you are older than your mother was when she had you
>you start rolling your eyes and yelling at grocery clerks. you can feel yourself going insane, but you also feel girlishly helpless. you don't recognize your face in the mirror or your hands in front of your face. you are tired, so tired
>your mother dies. you can finally articulate what you meant to say to her this whole time. you mouth "sorry" as you cry silently, in the bed where you made your children. you are not sure who you are apologizing to
>your daughter has children of her own. you believe, inexplicably, that everything will turn out okay for her
>you die. at your funeral, strangers gossip about the intensity of your blush

>>14926224
a lot of this sounds like projection

>>14925533
I thought Flaubert did a great job with Emma Bovary. Henry James often writes women well too.

>>14925533
No one knows, not even women.

>>14925533
Acn NPCs experience qualia?

>>14926224
well that was melancholic

>>14926449
what a stupid reponse

>>14926690
How so?

>>14926663
Women legitimately operate at a lower level of sentience to men in the same way that children do.
Schopenhauer was unironically 100% correct

>>14925595
Holy based

Maybe the author would not appreciate me saying, but I think that this evoke a feminine sensibility that's difficult to pin down. This book makes me very happy.

gonna second the anna karenina recommendation. tolstoy doesn't write like a man, he writes like the universe.

alternatively, i'd recommend jane austen. i like emma a lot

>>14926723
He took it back after an American woman painted his portrait and said that genius was possible in the female species. He did think tho that it was at that time anyway, a rarer phenomenon. That doesn't mean it will always be so.

>>14926773
>an American woman painted his portrait and said that genius was possible in the female species
I'd be interested to read his thoughts on this, can you point me to where he expressed this opinion?

>>14926773
even if genious is possible at the extreme, so what?
The amount of women of subhuman consciousness far exceeds the amount of men in the same condition.
Even anecdotally, go interact with women, the VAST majority have absolutely nothing interesting to say about anything whatsoever.
That post sums it up perfectly when it says the their consciousness does nothing but revolve around itself.
Their entire existence is solely about the end of reproduction, and everything that entails.
If souls exist, there is a legitimate argument to be made that women are not in possession of them

>>14926835
genius*
I'm on mobile

>>14925533
Alice Munro

>>14926773
>He took it back
He didn't take anything back. He only admitted that, even though women in general are as he described in the essay, exceptions are still possible. Which is only sensible of him considering he was an empiricist after all.

>>14926712
because you (are/seem to be) right

>>14925875
Though I suspect that this post was intended to be facetious, it is partially true: females, generally, are closer to their essential/child self than males, due to, both: the more directly inspired beauty of Sofia persisting within their bodies, and the traditional disparaging stereotype that only facilitates ease of expression of the former.

Sociocultural degeneration has aeffected both sexes, not just females; typically, the morbid complexes that sexist/genderist identitarians have regarding the respective opposite sex and/or gender is a result of both: personal insecurity, and adulteration of person.

More importantly: within this kosmos, perfect manifestation/synthesis of Sofian Image is attained through ethicomoral excellence. proactuated via martialism, regardless of sex.

>>14925533
I don't know, I am not a woman. Though quite a few women tend to point to either Jane Austen or the Brontë sisters.

>>14925595
Honestly this describes the average 4chan poster, or really any heavy internet user in general.

>>14925581
>>14925890
cringe. no woman has ever accurately understood and articulated what she really wants

>>14926224
the unrealistic bits of cope give away your roast beef nature

>>14927542
Were women to "unsex" themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen, and disgusting of beings and would surely perish without male protection.
Queen Victoria

Try again faggot

>>14925578
This reads like Hunter S Thompson's daily routine

>>14927546
yes, men held that view and she heard it then bravely shared this bit of contemporary wisdom, incredible. it also isn't someone saying what she wants. try again faggot.

Is the key to understanding the experience of women to grow up around them? Do you need to have had sisters growing up to understand women?

>>14927569
it's about observation and that is it. proximity is useful for that though.

>>14927569
The only thing you need to grasp the essence of women is to own a dog.

>>14927561
I disproved your statement and now you're switching the premise? Neck yourself faggot.

>>14927589
illiterate nigger

>>14925890
>I do not believe any male can accurately into the female experience
>we should get rid of of the category of [an adult female] entirely - since it's meaningless
is this the power of feminist intellectuals?

>>14925533

Interesting. Men cannot know as they have different physiologies and neurochemistry so they have to rely on what women say/do and women have no basis for comparison.

It is like saying to an autistic person "what is it like to be neurotypical?"

>>14925533
being a whore

>>14927674
Just in the same way that neurotypicals can study autistic people scientifically to get an accurate idea of autism, so can men do with regards to women. We don't need to take each others' words for it if we can observe it ourselves. We might not experience femininity, but we can certainly observe it.

>>14925790
Clarissa by Samuel Richardson

>>14925581
Tolstoy was trans

>>14927674
I'll give it a shot.

The need for social approval is deeply internalized and integrated into your emotions. You can not objectively and impartially discuss a topic such as eugenics without becoming legitimately emotionally distracted from facts by your feelings. Of course you make an exaggerated show of letting everyone know how correct your emotional response to the topic is, but the distraction is still real.

You don't really care about large systems of rules even in abstract areas like fiction. Particularly in science fiction and fantasy you wish nerds would shut up and let you get to the spectacle and interpersonal interactions. This is why you rarely ever notice or care about plot holes. You think there's no way that anyone could sincerely care about those and suspect people who nitpick plot holes are doing it for ulterior reasons.

Ideologically you're so used to being able to find people that share your values that you think they must be universal. Everyone probably cares about freedom, equality, safety, etc in about the same ratio that you do. As a result you know that people who disagree with you are doing so for shallow reasons such as greed or laziness.

>>14925533
Why don't you read an autobiography to get an idea?

>>14925533
The most beautiful girl in the whole world

>>14927786
These are just sexist tropes, there's no insight there at all. I could write a mirror post that says men never notice plot holes because they only care about action and sex appeal.

>>14927972
Nigger, before the 20th ce all the scholars were men and were more than glad to point out, austically, the plot holes in Homer and Vergil and many other classics .

>>14927786
>mfw you describe my gf and half the white collar doctorate collectivist jackoffs I know

>>14927972
>no they're wrong because they're tropes and i could claim different things
stunning insight

i wasn't even talking about women, i was trying to describe what it's like to be a neurotypical. maybe neurotypicals are the women of brain chemistry

>>14927972
Women are on average more social and thus less competitive than men. Being more social makes them more conformist to their ingroup. Being more conformist makes them great members, but poor leaders. Anyone who has done a project with a young woman knows what I'm talking about.
When women and men get older they tend to become more alike and these differences become very small.

>>14927786
Was good until you revealed yourself to be an incel scifi freak in paragraph 2

>>14928062
Resentment really is the death of reason

>>14927786
>You can not objectively and impartially discuss a topic such as eugenics
You silly women, this is what manliness encompasses.

>>14928288
Everyone knows the virile hot-blooded male isn't hampered by petty things as morals or reverence for human life.
But seriously there are fringe cases where an untreatable congenital disease will lead to a certain painful death of the child. This could be prevented by selective abortion, and would officially be eugenics, despite being a mercy.

>>14928288
Everyone knows the virile hot-blooded male isn't hampered by petty things as morals or reverence for human life.
But seriously there are fringe cases where an untreatable congenital disease will lead to a certain painful death of the child. This could be prevented by selective abortion, and would officially be eugenics, despite being a mercy.

>>14925533

Men are a combination of masculine and feminine qualities (i.e. androgynous), while women are mostly but not entirely feminine.

>>14928380

also, a good reference point is the feeling you get when you lose or are humiliated. Women feel good when that happens to them. Imagine if you were encouraged to be passive and frivolous, you might adopt a certain personality.

Also, deceptiveness is a major component.

>>14925533
St. Paul

1 Timothy 2:
Let women learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty.

>>14925533
From Louisa May Alcott's essay "Happy Women", 1868.

ONE OF THE trials of woman-kind is the fear of being an old maid. To escape this dreadful doom, young girls rush into matrimony with a recklessness which astonishes the beholder; never pausing to remember that the loss of liberty, happiness, and self-respect is poorly repaid by the barren honor of being called "Mrs." instead of "Miss."

Fortunately, this foolish prejudice is fast disappearing, conquered by the success of a certain class belonging to the sisterhood. This class is composed of superior women who, from various causes, remain single, and devote themselves to some earnest work; espousing philanthropy, art, literature, music, medicine, or whatever task taste, necessity, or chance suggests, and remaining as faithful to and as happy in their choice as married women with husbands and homes. It being my good fortune to know several such, I venture to offer a little sketch of them to those of my young countrywomen who, from choice or necessity, stand along, seeking to find the happiness which is the right of all.

Here is L., a rich man's daughter; pretty, accomplished, sensible, and good. She tried fashionable life and found that it did not satisfy her. No lover was happy enough to make a response in her heart, and at twenty-three she looked about her for something to occupy and interest her. She was attracted towards the study of medicine; became absorbed in it; went alone to Paris and London; studied faithfully; received her diploma, and, having practised successfully for a time, was appointed the resident physician of a city hospital. Here, doing a truly womanly work, she finds no time for ennui, unhappiness, or the vague longing for something to fill heart and life, which leads so many women to take refuge. in frivolous or dangerous amusements and pursuits. Respected and beloved by all who know her, she finds genuine satisfaction in her work, and is the busiest, happiest, most useful woman whom I know.

My sisters, don't be afraid of the words, "old maid," for it is in your power to make this a term of honor, not reproach. The world is full of work, needing all the heads, hearts, and hands we can bring to do it. If love comes as it should come, accept it in God's name and be worthy of His best blessing. If it never comes, then in God's name reject the shadow of it, for that can never satisfy a hungry heart. Do not be ashamed to own the truth - do not be daunted by the fear of ridicule and loneliness, nor saddened by the loss of a woman's tenderest ties. Be true to yourselves; cherish whatever talent you possess, and in using it faithfully for the good of others you will most assuredly find happiness for yourself, and make of life no failure, but a beautiful success.

This is the female experience. For the record, Louisa May Alcott was a happy spinster herself, so she knows what she's talking about.

>>14927985
>Nigger, before the 20th ce all the scholars were men and were more than glad to point out, austically, the plot holes in Homer and Vergil and many other classics .
Exactly, it would be bullshit if I said that, just like that anon's post.

>>14927624
Well no male could ever, in his limited mind, imagine the female experience of actual women like >>14928499 because he assumes that's a male experience and cannot even fathom women have the exact same experience as men.

>>14928514
Women do not have the exact same experience as men.

>>14928546
No? Liking your job, not wanting to compromise on your liberty and not caring much about having children is not a male experience also?

>>14928499
Wew, old cat ladies should be shot.

>>14928554
>What is the female experience?
>Here is some authentic, genuine female experience
>NO NOT THAT ONE
And this is why men cannot write women.

>>14928554
Louisa was 36 when she wrote Happy Women, that's not even middle age.

>>14928559
You cannot have an authentic and complete female experience without motherhood. What she wrote was the cringe rant of eternal adolescence, she can't tell you what it is to be a woman since she's not truly taken the journey to become one.
>>14928575
Pretty much an old hag desu.

>>14928559
And women can neither meme nor write since they lack souls

>>14928585
>You cannot have an authentic and complete female experience without motherhood
That makes no sense. Female is determined by chromosomes and biology, which all natal women have, regardless of their life choices. No woman suddenly grows a penis just because she wants to be childfree.

>>14928585
I think a woman can tell you what it is to be a woman better than any male can, who's never been a woman in his life. Mtherhood is an arbitrary demand you want to impose on women because you don't want to accept the idea of a woman being happy and free without children, despite plenty women living their full life like that and feeling complete that way.

>>14925533
for modern people in more or less civilized countries, >>14925890 is true.
some decades and centuries ago though being a woman was quite miserable you weren't naturally stupid, naive and willing to submit. how many of male authors' works would be there today if they were all belittled, humiliated or straight up denied education and choice?

>>14928585
>You cannot have an authentic and complete female experience without motherhood.
so infertile women somehow have male life experience and socialization?

>>14928585
>adolescents
>working and being financially independent
What?

>Oh! when I think how fondly, how foolishly I have loved him, how madly I have trusted him, how constantly I have laboured, and studied, and prayed, and struggled for his advantage; and how cruelly he has trampled on my love, betrayed my trust, scorned my prayers and tears, and efforts for his preservation – crushed my hopes, destroyed my youth's best feelings, and doomed me to a life of hopeless misery – as far as man can do it – it is not enough to say that I no longer love my husband – I Hᴀte him! The word stares me in the face like a guilty confession, but it is true: I hate him – I hate him! – But God have mercy on his miserable soul! – and make him see and feel his guilt – I ask no other vengeance! If he could but fully know and truly feel my wrongs, I should be well avenged; and I could freely pardon all; but he is so lost, so hardened in his heartless depravity that, in this life, I believe he never will.
—The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, ch. 34

>>14928662
No, they are simply lacking. They can't give a proper account of what it means to be a woman anymore than a fat balding incel who spends all his time playing Nintendo bing bing wahoos and reading japanese erotica in his mother's basement can't tell you what it is to be a man.

There are stages to life and without going through them you lose something important. Maybe the basement dweller would also tell you he's happy simply playing his video games, but what does he really know? What could he possibly write authentically about fatherhood? The same goes for these old childless crones. They don't know the first thing about womanhood.

>>14928717
While your incel basement dweller could not write realistically about fatherhood, he can write realistically about being a man, a man who loves Nintendo and japanese erotica and is happy that way. You do not question his being a specimen of the male sex, having male biology. Yet here you're trying to claim childfree women are not female, as if they don't have a vulva and all other female organs anymore just because they refuse to have kids. That makes no sense, human biology does not change like that.

Since biology is the only thing that is objective and observable, that's the only way to categorize the sexes, and who is what. A childfree woman is undoubtedly female, and therefore experiencing womanhood, period.

Capricious, arbitrary attempts at placing goalposts some women are not interested in is just that, arbitrary, and therefore disregardable. Childfree women know everything about their womanhood, you not accepting it does not negate their experience, it just means you're not interested in knowing the female experience.

>>14928667
We live in an age where the old adolescent is common, the manchild and the woman who never settles down and takes up duties. There are hordes of these people roaming the urban landscapes and you equate financial independence with adulthood and maturity? It means nothing.

>>14928763
Financial independence is the mark of adulthood and maturity, you need to make sensible financial decisions only adults are developed enough to make in order to be successfully independent from your parents' money. To claim it isn't is to deny reality.

Emma. It's funny how much you can still see of it in women today, no wonder Clueless was so successful.

>>14928754
>That makes no sense, human biology does not change like that.
There's more to being a man than mere biology, and no, I would call the example given a boy in a grown man's body. A terrible thing that, people of stunted growth.

As to why motherhood is essential to a woman is because this ultimately places her in contrast and beside the man, fully giving her the role of a woman. She is not complete by herself and can't truly give expression to the feminine otherwise.
>>14928773
You have a very shallow and poor understanding of what it means to grow up. Men need initiation.

>>14927589
"disproved"

>>14928773
You need a trustfund or a credit card.

>>14928790
there are more ways to express motherhood than by just caring for children

alt: you can have children but raise them poorly, does that make them more "womanly/motherly" than say a teenager wise beyond her years?

>>14928827
>there are more ways to express motherhood than by just caring for children
No, getting a pet cat or dog is not the same. Motherhood is a transformative event which pushes women into true maturity. Fatherhood is transformative for men too but not to the same extent, as mentioned earlier they require Initiation to turn them into men. This isn't about wisdom or competence but a state of being, how one relates to the world, what one is and so on.

>>14928790
>There's more to being a man than mere biology
Disagree. Biology is all there is. Anything else is subjective and arbitrary, see how you claim that women are not "complete" without motherhood while many women do feel and consider themselves complete without motherhood.

In other words: that's your opinion man, and your opinion has no weight on the experience and decisions of the individual.

>>14928849
>Motherhood is a transformative event which pushes women into true maturity
Absolutely not true, especially considering your idea of "maturity", which I don't agree with. Abortion has been made legal thanks to studies done on unwilling mothers, that is women who could not terminate a pregnancy and were pushed into the role of mother without wanting that role. They abused their children and made them grow up mentally ill, inferior to their peers, prone to crime and drug use as a way to cope for their mothers hating and resenting them. Women who don't want children don't bond with their child, so motherhood does nothing good for them, in fact it's a net negative event that reduces their financial and psychological well-being. There's no "true maturity" in motherhood.

>>14925533
Alpha seed, beta feed. :)

>>14925533
montherlant
matzneff

>>14926224
>>you date someone else. you're tired. he reminds you of a boy you used to like, which you guess is enough for you now. you get pregnant

This is called the baby trap. Heads up to any men reading this thread, this is what happens to women right as they hit 25. They freak out and "settle" for you. Then you get the honor of being their slave for several decades while they treat sex like a reluctant favor.

You're not being held up against the men they've actually dated, either. You're being compared against the men they slutted around with or simply desired to slut around with in their early twenties and late teens. You will always be settlement material next to that one Chad they orbited for that one year in college.

All of their discontent about a life not lived, or opportunities squandered, all that Bell Jar bullshit about the Chad figs shriveling up at the foot of the Chad tree, you are the living embodiment of that, for any woman you marry past the age of 23. She will see you as her runner-up prize for failing at life, and she will expect you to be grateful to pay for her shit while she gets fat, jokes with her coworkers about how none of them put out with their husbands, and spends 80% of her time gossiping and drinking with her disgusting whore non-friends on "social media."

The sad thing is that these women are the ideal predators when it comes to ensnaring well-intentioned incels who just start to develop some masculinity and maturity in their mid-to-late twenties. Just as the average 4chan user will hit his stride as a man, and begin thinking "hey, I'm not so bad after all.. I've got a little life going, I've got prospects, and above all, I feel an intangible sense that my worth as a human being isn't decided by my rank in a high school or college slut's popularity contest," he'll encounter one of these used-up pathetic entitled whores, with no prospects of their own and certainly no ambitions. Right as the average 4chan guy is escaping the endless nightmare of sex-based oversocializing that is the modern education system and entry-level employment, he'll encounter some bitch who is just cresting the wall and who will deign to "let" him service her for the rest of his life.

She'll give him just enough affection and companionship to make up for all the years he spent alone while she was out getting railed consequence-free (and she won't tell him about any of this, of course), and he'll be so overwhelmed by puppy love that he'll commit to what is at best a mediocre relationship, at worst a slavery contract.

I hate women. No matter how far you push them into self-awareness, they will never feel anything but instinctive superiority and entitlement to the labor and worship of "inferior" men, as decided by whatever gay-ass Instagram culture they have absorbed through their mindless hedonistic lifestyle. Women are parasites.

>>14928929
>Biology is all there is.
I do hope you take that to its logical conclusion, race realism, but this way of looking at it is just as "subjective" as my own.
>while many women do feel and consider themselves complete without motherhood.
How would they know if they are or aren't? Again, do you not see how dumb this is? Maybe incels feel complete without sex but it's not like they know if they are. Maybe someone else is content without working a day in his life, but does he know what he is missing, what impact it would have on him? No. Motherhood is very fundamental to womanhood and all this sour grapes shenanigans doesn't change that. It does seem you have some strong anti-natalist leanings but even if you do, at least stop being such a pseud.

You drag up that there can be a negative motherhood, and sure, but that goes for everything. So what if babies are now legally killed if the mother will be no good? You could say the same about the laughable measure of maturity by financial independence, that many would rather have the state provide for them or their parents than to become financially independent. It has no bearing on anything.

If I'm to be perfectly frank with you it sounds like you're either some sort of autist who cannot come to grips with things beyond immediate material facts or a woman trying to rationalise away her own failures and shortcomings, a stunted nature.

>>14929030
>well-intentioned incels
>well-intentioned
>incels
Bwaahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha

>>14926224
>your girlhood happiness ends at age 8 when one of your fathers' friends tells you how pretty your hair is and strokes it and you cry and everyone laughs. you learn that your pain is a joke
>you briefly but totally abandon your authentic self, which you will never recover, as you first experimentally minimize yourself between ages 10-13
>you suffer ceaseless body horror as you watch your body stretch and tear in ways that you can understand only as pathological
>>time becomes telescopic. you lucidly relate to yourself as a young girl and vividly anticipate yourself as an older woman.

Every other woman says shit like this, but I don't buy it.

>>14929030
Fortunately, this doesn't really need to happen anymore given that society has, and continues to develop structures meant to liberate both men and women.

>>14926224
Definitely not universal but a decent attempt at capturing some of the female struggles.

Men seem to think that because women can get who they want, so long as they're decent looking, they always feel content flinging guys around. But most of the time, especially at the young adult age, it's really difficult to find an authentic connection with anyone. Yeah you can have people surround you but you never feel not alone.

>>14929030
lmao who hurt you

>>14929060
>structures meant to liberate both men
like what?

>>14928754
based and dworkinpilled

>>14929042
Most men have the potential to be normal human beings. Post-WW2 hypergamy and orgyporgy culture, a fucked-up mockery of the bourgeois values of individualism, personal freedom, self-ownership, etc., has created a massive underclass of equally fucked-up men.

It's also turned women into stunted retard children, an oligarchy of useful idiots whose sexual capital makes them ideal for manipulating those with even less social capital (the true blank-slate lumpenproles whose only function in the eyes of capital is economic, i.e. average men). Under neoliberalism, women are like an Outer Party. They get just enough benefits from their male slaves, who allow them to live a pathetic decadent lifestyle of hedonism, that they never think of rebelling. At the same time they distract the slaves from realizing that the system is rigged, because the slaves can only articulate their slavery mediately, through petty incel rebellions against women's sexual capital.

Even your mockery of incel culture is an emanation of this unconsciously held ideology. You are seeing twisted, broken, sad men who are so confused that they think your pussy is the only source of happiness in life, but who can't even get your pussy because there are no economic incentives to distribute pussy equitably. You want them to see you for who you really are, past all the foot picture prostitution and the Instagram whoredom, past tarting yourself up every day to accentuate all the things they want but can't have, past restructuring the entire society to cater to your whinging and your hedonism, but you can't see past their pain and ask why they're lashing out. Why should they look beyond the role you've been assigned, if you refuse to look past theirs? Why should the slaves be genteel?

I used to think women were blameless and that their role as useful idiots was socially constructed, only an accidental byproduct of having sexual capital, a trait that would be mediated in healthier ways in a healthier society. Now I just don't care anymore. It's no longer a theoretical issue, it's an existential one. Women have to be subordinated as quickly as possible. Thankfully women love being slaves and followers so all we have to do is keep letting the pressure build up. Every foot picture you sell is another little bit of pressure. For ten thousand years the word feminism will be associated at the deepest levels of the unconscious with irresponsibility, hedonism, and vaginal oligarchy. We'll revert to pre-modern levels of reflexive assumption that women are permanent children, but with the added bonus that any time someone says "but wait, what if that's wrong? maybe we should give them a chance?" everyone will answer "yeah, we tried that for a century and they started selling pictures of their feet and displaying their clits on public transit at age 13."

>>14929060
Can't say I agree. Maybe eons from now.

>>14929039
>I do hope you take that to its logical conclusion, race realism
Race realism is a bunch of unfounded cherrypicked bogus that ignores all realities that contradict it, just like your ideas on women, so fuck that shit.

>How would they know if they are or aren't?
By being content and satisfied with themselves and their life? That's their prerogative.

>Maybe incels feel complete without sex
Incels are defined by being whiny, disgusting, self-centered pieces of shit who want sex from women, so their example is not applicable here.

>Maybe someone else is content without working a day in his life, but does he know what he is missing
Yes, actually. He can see other people working and, listen to their experiences and, thanks to his high intellect and cognitive abilities, determine that's not something he wants for himself. If he can afford that, more power to him.

>sour grapes
There's no sour grapes here. There's women stating they're happy with themselves as they are, and you are presuming to know their wishes better than they do. That's the mark of an immature child who has never learnt to respect others.

>So what if babies are now legally killed if the mother will be no good?
Fetuses are not babies, and abortion spares the woman for a horrible life raising kids she hates. It also spares society from objectivably (as these things have been measured) inferior, dangerous members.

>many would rather have the state provide for them or their parents than to become financially independent
That's not a choice all women share. Still it does not change the fact you refuse to believe a woman's happiness comes from what she wants and not what you want to arbitrarily impose on her, and men like you cause nothing but misery for women.

>>14929088
Your pain is entirely your fault, you think you are entitled to women like women aren't people. See your talk of " distribute pussy" as if women aren't people but a commodity. Thoughts like that are repulsive and disgusting, you deserve all the hate you get for having them, and you deserve to be alone because being with you would only make a woman suffer, and no woman should suffer because of you. You are the one with disgusting thoughts, you are the problem, you are the evil one who refuses to look at himself and admit his faults. You are the cause of your misery. Die alone.

>>14928754
>Since biology is the only thing that is objective and observable
>Childfree women know everything about their womanhood
define 'objective', define 'knowing', define 'womanhood'. according to you these are all predictable outcomes of atoms hitting each other. why would you even spend time on a subject that has nothing to do with a supposed free choice? you act in some way upon a rock or a rubber and its internal structural mechanisms react in some way, like clockwork. so if humans are the same, you're arguing against nothing, get the fuck off this board you pathetic bacterial hivemind subhuman. :)

>>14929030
>all that Bell Jar bullshit about the Chad figs shriveling up at the foot of the Chad tree
Doesn't everyone experience this though in some form?

>>14929108
>being with you would only make a woman suffer, and no woman should suffer because of you.

>>14928979
this
sneed of truth

>>14929108
Don't reply to my posts unless you're going to read them. You scanned over what I wrote and waited until your cow eyes chanced upon a few things that vaguely looked like something you've seen before. I don't want to talk to a shitty chatbot algorithm.

>>14929114
Yeah and everyone experiences narcissism and entitlement. The most mediocre man wants to fuck the most beautiful women. But the most mediocre man, at least if he develops and socializes normally within a normal (read: not our current) culture, also understands that he doesn't have any real, social entitlement to those women, that he's not great at all unless he substantiates his greatness.

Then all kinds of complex dialectics can develop, as he asks himself questions like "what do I do with these deep, private desires to be worshiped, admired, feared, obeyed? can I vent them in harmless ways, or should these become actual goals? if so, which ones?" etc. Then you get the great variety of male culture and history, from Caesar and Napoleon to anonymous renunciates for whom everything temporal is vanity.

Women don't do any of this. Any woman always already sees herself as the special princess who deserves to be the center of reality (a priori, no reasons or accomplishments necessary), and they see creation as made up of this weird combination of despised plebs, who should be grateful to orbit them, exciting Chads who should take them on an adventure (note their passive role) every day all day forever, and the universal daddy energy that solves all problems. Whether it's her actual daddy, or society daddy, or "men in general" daddy, a woman's needs must always be met by her indulgent daddy.

Maybe all this could be cured, maybe it's an accumulation of bad habits over centuries. Who knows. Right now the only thing that's certain is: prostitutes need to fuck off, and men need to have sources of validation outside of pathetically competing for metrosexual popularity points in college and maybe getting a post-wall consolation hag for their efforts five to ten years later.

>>14928631
But certainly having a child changes your hormones i.e. biology.
Because only women can have that experience it definitely changes their character and is essential for the complete female experience.

>>14929148
And what kind of reasoning do you have for justifying 'non-prostitutes' over 'prostitutes', some form of 'good' vs 'bad'? Are you acting as if there is an inherent and metaphysical character to those supposedly 'good' traits or are you yourself the result of 'an accumulation of bad habits' during your biological input season?

>>14929148
I read your post, it was shit.

>can I vent them in harmless ways, or should these become actual goals? if so, which ones?
Nothing prevents these men from asking themselves these questions right now, in fact they are encouraged to by men and women alike, they refuse to listen because you make them think they are entitled to the company of a woman. They are not, you are not. You are encouraging them to be like subhuman animals instead.

>Women don't do any of this
Save for all the childfree, work-focused women who live happily without men in their lives, and are accomplished in their field like Louisa, yet you refuse to acknowledge their existence because you know their existence contradicts and completely nulls your argument.

>prostitutes need to fuck off
There's not a single prostitute posted ITT, so I have no idea why bring prostitutes in at all.

>men need to have sources of validation
They already do have such sources, they willfully refuse to consider them. Hence, their misery is entirely their choice.

>>14929165
>certainly having a child changes your hormones
No, chemical bonding does not happen in unwanted pregnancies. The woman develops no attachment to a child she doesn't want and she resents having.

>>14929186
Spinsters are not prostitutes, yet he hates them too for bot being subservient to males.

>>14929092
So much for biological reality, what a shame, I truly hoped for some coherence from your side. This entire post could easily have been typed up by some blogger at Jezebel or something. I'm sorry to say I'm rather disappointed in you, perhaps I was a fool to expect more.

As for happiness I never said a thing about it, I was speaking of growth and being. I feel bad for repeating it if it's true, but this really seems to stem from some complex on your part. You seem to think I make an argument that you cannot find happiness without children, but I am not.

Very well, you enjoy your cats, madam. Drink your wine and consume all the products you can afford, spend your limited time frivolously on your hobbies. When your friends move on to care for their families, when you see couples with their kids and when you sit alone at home then you might feel the sting of regret and envy. I genuinely hope you will be spared of that, friend.

>>14929078
Welfare, maternity pay and decent workers rights so that you don't get fired if you stay home with children. The reason this happens in third world countries like Pakistan or the USA is that women are more or less forced to become financially dependent on men in order to have children.

>>14925533
Jane Austen is still relevant.

I am a women and recently I have been feeling like it is an awful experience. I am always jealous and I want to make other people jealous of me. I try to think rationally but when I say my thoughts to people they come out as the stupidest sounding things. All I can think about is my relationship and I constantly want my boyfriend to pay attention to me and no one else. I get upset about the littlest things and I want people to listen to how upset I am and tell me my reaction is right and justified. I try to stop feeling all of this but I have found it almost impossible.

>>14929236
no i meant men, not women

>>14929210
Growth and being are subjective, your idea of growth and being is arbitrary and I disagree with it. See? You think life without children is misery, and you project your fears onto strangers, even though I do not share your sentitment at all. And you refuse to accept the testimony of women, who are happy living a life without children, stuffing your ears and shutting your eyes in front of the truth. That's the mark of someone immature, someone who cannot accept reality as it is, a little child who refuses to hear Santa is not real.

>>14929195
Why do you keep bringing up unwanted pregnancies? It's not as if all children were reared after rape or terrible decisions by intoxicated loose women. This is the exception, not the rule.

>>14929244
Paternity leave and the man not being forced to be a breadwinner because the woman can earn her own income and contribute are conquests of feminism.

>>14929246
>Growth and being are subjective
No, these stages are quite clear cut and rather objective.

>>14929251
>Why do you keep bringing up unwanted pregnancies?
Because they happen, and a woman does not to be intoxicated or raped to not want children, she simply needs to not want children.

>>14929260
What's the scale?

>>14929264
What, she just slipped onto a dick or something?

>>14929260
Not at all. Ironically the only stage that is quite clear cut and rather objective is the one you rejected, financial independence from your parents. Anything else is subject entirely to discretionary individual inclinations.

All the dudes who seriously hate incels are those who occupy a position not much higher than them on the social ladder. They lash out against them for fear of being mistaken for them. :)

>>14929064
Plenty of men have the same struggles with finding an authentic connection, maybe you assume that all men just want to fuck but it's not the case. The only difference is that males don't have the privilege of being able to succeed even while acting passively. Women may find it frustrating having to choose correctly from the lineup of men trying to date them, but imagine if you had to volunteer yourself for selection while making sure to put extreme amounts of effort into every aspect of your life to ensure that you are "worthy", and face rejection hundreds of times in the process. I find it hard to be sympathetic to women when they complain about being able to get any man they want, but not the perfect one, while putting in no actual effort to improve their character or be the dominant party in the dating experience.

>>14929273
She is childfree, she states she does not want children and she will abort any unwanted pregnancies, if available she sterilizes herself, and her partner either accepts this or fucks off.

>>14929244
It means you are no longer made to be a paypig cuckold for a desperate woman that resents you.

>>14929281
>making sure to put extreme amounts of effort
If you think being a decent person is "extreme amounts of effort", the problem is you. It's not extreme amounts of efforts to respect the basic desires of other people, women and non-disgusting men have no problem not wanting to force themselves on others.

>>14929280
Incels literally kill people. How do you not hate them?

>>14929289
haven't heard that alimony was abolished

>>14929186
Are you just asking whether I have values? Yes, I have values. I think people should be psychologically healthy but also free and self-determining. Freedom requires responsibility and responsibility requires freedom. The immediate goal of any human being is excellence through self-cultivation and self-definition.

Here's Mary Wollstonecraft:
>Women are every where in this deplorable state; for, in order to preserve their innocence, as ignorance is courteously termed, truth is hidden from them, and they are made to assume an artificial character before their faculties have acquired any strength. Taught from their infancy that beauty is woman's sceptre, the mind shapes itself to the body, and, roaming round its gilt cage, only seeks to adore its prison. Men have various employments and pursuits which engage their attention, and give a character to the opening mind; but women, confined to one, and having their thoughts constantly directed to the most insignificant part of themselves, seldom extend their views beyond the triumph of the hour.

Here is her description of unearned "capital":
>Perhaps, if the existence of an evil being was allowed, who, in the allegorical language of scripture, went about seeking whom he should devour, he could not more effectually degrade the human character than by giving a man absolute power. ... Birth, riches, and every extrinsic advantage that exalt a man above his fellows, without any mental exertion, sink him in reality below them. In proportion to his weakness, he is played upon by designing men, till the bloated monster has lost all traces of humanity. ... Educated in slavish dependence, and enervated by luxury and sloth, where shall we find men who will stand forth to assert the rights of man;—or claim the privilege of moral beings, who should have but one road to excellence?

And the difference in situation between men and women:
>Mankind, including every description, wish to be loved and respected for something; and the common herd will always take the nearest road to the completion of their wishes. The respect paid to wealth and beauty is the most certain, and unequivocal; and, of course, will always attract the vulgar eye of common minds. ... Men have thus ... an opportunity of exerting themselves with dignity, and of rising by the exertions which really improve a rational creature; but the whole female sex are, till their character is formed, in the same condition as the rich: for they are born ... with certain sexual privileges, and whilst they are gratuitously granted them, few will ever think of works of supererogation, to obtain the esteem of a small number of superiour people. ... It is true they are provided with food and raiment, for which they neither toil nor spin; but health, liberty, and virtue, are given in exchange. But, where, amongst mankind has been found sufficient strength of mind to enable a being to resign these adventitious prerogatives[?]

>>14929295
Comparatively yes it is an extreme amount of effort. When was the last time you (assuming female) ever looked inwardly and considered which areas you are lacking in? Have you ever made a genuine effort towards self-improvement in any aspect except superficial? When was the last time you asked someone out and took them on a date and paid for it and made sure they had a good time? Do you have any interesting hobbies or have you ever created anything? All of these are expected of males and definitely take a lot of effort compared to going on Tinder and swiping left on anyone under 6'2"

>>14929308
If you abolish alimony, divorced women who pay alimony won't have to pay alimony to their ex-husbands anymore. Is that what you want?

>>14929308
Pretty much only exists in the USA. And the whole point of having decent public welfare is to prevent pro forma marriages like that in the first place.

>>14929241
If you didn't have any potential to be more than these things, you wouldn't worry about the fact that you do them. You wouldn't even recognize them as bad things.

>>14929284
Wow, talk about being determined to not pass on your genes.

>>14929320
>I think people should be psychologically healthy but also free and self-determining
>I hate women who freely self-determine they don't care for children as children are a net cost and burden that does not let a woman excel in her actual interests and choice, I hate these women who want to focus on their job and their individual accomplishments

You understand nothing of what you greentexted.

>>14929295
the vast majority of guys who are not born rich or good looking have to:
>do well in all stages of school but not too well since he has to maintain himself in the status quo of social culture
>work out
>have good hygiene
>self improvement bullshit
>buy nice clothes
>struggle to find a WELL paying job
>search out a woman
>desperately try to find out what she wants and how she can please her
>arrange date
>buy gifts
>keep himself looking as if he has a plan for the future (i.e. he can be settled with without hazard)
vs the vast majority of women, not rich, not good loking:
>dont be obese
>dont stink
>have the lowest amount of education, but it's ok if not
and some stupid fucker will come and provide for her
i don't have money in either part and I don't give a shit about dating or relationships, but in terms of modern structural social archetypes it's incorrect to say that women carry the same weight,societal pressure, as men.

>>14929320
>>14929186
Also, here is Sally Kempton and Susan Brownmiller saying something basically similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXALFRMpCw#t=3m20s
(3:20)

This kind of feminism, the kind that is optimistic about universal human nature and simply wants women to be given the opportunity to achieve and develop as much as men, has been completely forgotten in favor of average middle-class women literally becoming whores, tarting themselves up constantly, and acting like whiny retarded children.

>>14929354
Yeah, being a tarted-up whore is excellence for sure. Like I said, freedom requires responsibility.

>>14929360
Do you know how much feminists hate women who are dependent on men? Or women that they say are "unenlightened"?

>>14925533
>This thread again
Can you pathetic incels think of nothing else?

>>14925578
This shit is pathetic.

>>14929367
what feminists are you talking about? modern feminists? I doubt they're ascetic asexual nuns focused on 'enlightenment'. and if you're talking about 'classical' feminists that's besides the point. I only laid out the vast majority of neurotypical men vs the vast majority of neurotypical women, i didn't say that there are no women who do that or there are no men who do that

>>14925533
Here's some Kierkegaard for you
>"What a curse to be a woman! And yet the very worst curse when one is a woman is, in fact, not to understand that it is one."

"On the Nature and Ways of Women"
a poem

>>14929330
Yes but I feel like I can't do anything else. Whenever I try to get over something it's nearly impossible. Is there anyway to deal with this?

>>14929323
When was the last time you did? Because I see plenty areas you are lacking in but you refuse to recognize them, and you're the one lamenting how lonely and miserable, not me.

>Have you ever made a genuine effort towards self-improvement in any aspect except superficial?
Define superficial. I suspect your idea of superficial is not my idea of superficial. As a banal example, most men don't even fathom the idea of being helpful cleaning around the house without being prompted to as a self-improvement, yet it is and it's not superficial as it allievates the burden on their partners, something a good partner should want to do.

>When was the last time you asked someone out and took them on a date and paid for it and made sure they had a good time?
Well dude, you sound reallt unreasonable here. I always either pay for what I consume or take turns in paying if the other person agrees to that (ex: I pay coffee for both this time, my friend Sarah pays for both next time) and I am always polite to everyone I interact with, as long as they don't give me reason not to be. That's what I expect from people, nothing more, nothing less. I suspect your idea of a good time involves activities the other party is not comfortable with, how selfish.

>Do you have any interesting hobbies or have you ever created anything?
Once again, define 'interesting' - I'm sure what you find interesting is not necessarily what other people find interesting, and that makes you mad, seeing your preferences ignored. How dare people like what you don't like, huh?
Truly you are a selfish piece of crap.

>All of these are expected of males
And yet plenty women don't care and get with a man they are simply happy to be with, even if they find his hobbies uninteresting and could objectively use some improvement.

You have created a strawman. Stop creating strawmen.

>>14929365
>all women are tarted up whores waaaaahhhhhh how dare women seek happiness and fulfillment for themselves and not do what I want

Opinion discarded. Men talking about "responsibility" when what they mean is just mindless obedience, trying to force women into misery with such lies, is everything all feminists have always hated and fought against. Only the woman herself chooses what is her responsibility.

>>14929452
>i want limitless freedom
>You can only have freedom with responsibility.
>ok then i want the limitless freedom to decide what my responsibilities are

Well OP, there you have it: the female experience, epitomized in one post.

>>14925578
>No, what do you mean you won't let me put my penis inside you? You stuck up bitch, I care about you more than all these other dudes that want to put their penis inside you. Now let me nibble on your nipples.

>>14929270
You can apply any scale you like, to be more granular, but in the most simple way of looking at it there's childhood, adolescence, adulthood and old age.

The barrier between adolescence and adulthood in women is the rearing of children, which tempers their narcissism and imposes duties on them. It is the move from being self-centered to the focus of the family. There's more to it than just that, like the joining of the male and female and so on, but there you go. Men go through a similar thing with initiation into manhood but on another scale of which family is a part of. It's more of a communal thing.

>>14929457
"Responsibility" arbitrarily defined and imposed on others against their will is not responsibility, it's tyranny.

You want tyranny, not responsibility.

>>14929457
What are a man's responsibilities?

>>14929492
Women

>>14929478
Perhaps.. between infinite meaningless freedom and infinite totalitarian rigidity there is.. a middle way..

We'll call it.. "responsibility," to distinguish it specifically from slavish obedience and limitless freedom..

>Yet if the only form of tradition, of handing down, consisted in following the ways of the immediate generation before us in a blind or timid adherence to its successes, “tradition” should positively be discouraged. We have seen many such simple currents soon lost in the sand; and novelty is better than repetition. Tradition is a matter of much wider significance. It cannot be inherited, and if you want it you must obtain it by great labour.

>>14929492
The same as a woman's: don't be a whore or a faggot.

>Contrary to what is usually thought, it is the man of excellence, and not the common man who lives in essential servitude. Life has no savour for him unless he makes it consist in service to something transcendental. Hence he does not look upon the necessity of serving as an oppression. When, by chance, such necessity is lacking, he grows restless and invents some new standard, more difficult, more exigent, with which to coerce himself. This is life lived as a discipline — the noble life.

>Nobility is defined by the demands it makes on us — by obligations, not by rights. Noblesse oblige. "To live as one likes is plebeian; the noble man aspires to order and law" (Goethe). The privileges of nobility are not in their origin concessions or favours; on the contrary, they are conquests. And their maintenance supposes, in principle, that the privileged individual is capable of reconquering them, at any moment, if it were necessary, and anyone were to dispute them.… It is annoying to see the degeneration suffered in ordinary speech by a word so inspiring as "nobility." For, by coming to mean for many people hereditary "noble blood," it is changed into something similar to common rights, into a static, passive quality which is received and transmitted like something inert. But the strict sense, the etymon of the word nobility is essentially dynamic. Noble means the "well known," that is, known by everyone, famous, he who has made himself known by excelling the anonymous mass.… "Nobility" does not appear as a formal expression until the Roman Empire, and then precisely in opposition to the hereditary nobles, then in decadence.

>As one advances in life, one realises more and more that the majority of men — and of women — are incapable of any other effort than that strictly imposed on them as a reaction to external compulsion. And for that reason, the few individuals we have come across who are capable of a spontaneous and joyous effort stand out isolated, monumentalised, so to speak, in our experience. These are the select men, the nobles, the only ones who are active and not merely reactive, for whom life is a perpetual striving, an incessant course of training. Training = askesis. These are the ascetics.

>>14929492
>>14929499
/end thread

kkkracker feminism like kkkracker marxism needs to be thrown in the trash

>>14929464
>The barrier between adolescence and adulthood in women is the rearing of children
"No."

>It is the move from being self-centered to the focus of the family
Your choice of words implies you think a woman focusing on herself is a bad thing, and herein is the problem with your view. A woman focusing on herself is not a bad thing. She can live her life well focusing on herself her entire life, as women have already showed you.

>>14929511
As I said, your idea of "responsibility" is tyranny. You want to force your ideas on people who disagree with you, who have completely different experiences from you, who are miserable because of your ideas and whose misery you don't care about. I refuse your tyranny.

>>14925601
feelsbonbiman

>>14928062
Thanks for the vindication, bro.

>>14929264
So? Either there's something wrong with them or the can be convinced to change their minds. Women are very sheepish and do whatever their flock tells them to do. I have known plenty of women who were convinced they "didn't want children" by media and their peers who mysteriously changed their minds after meeting a strong and handsome man. Suddenly having babies was all they could think of. These things are not set in stone.
>>14929519
>Your choice of words implies you think a woman focusing on herself is a bad thing
It's the mark of adolescence in both men and women, and I would consider not growing up a bad thing, yes.

>>14929511
I agree that controlling your desires is noble and requires discipline but the "something transcendental" differs from people to people. For some, it's to have a family or have babies, for some to lose themselves in their art etc.

There is a very thin line between courage and stupidity. Blindly following tradition because that's how people did it in the old days is something I'd consider stupid but to go against the tyranny of the majority is kind of admirable.

>>14929513
God you're pathetic

If there are any actual women and not larpers in this thread, could you answer the following question: If we are to have this egoist mindset and pure individualistic outlook, why shouldn't men rape women if they can?

>>14929547
Why do you think there must be something wrong with women who don't want children? Not everyone shares your values, many women don't care for spreading their genes and are content simply living their life.

>Women are very sheepish
>He says, as he laments women not doing what he wants
Truly you are in denial of reality.

>It's the mark of adolescence
No, it's not. Adolescence is a defined temporal age from 13 to 17, the transitional stage of physical and psychological development that occurs during those years. When and if to have children is the choice of adults who care for themselves and their happiness, and not let wannabe bambozzlers like you fool them and enslave them.

>>14929528
Great, see how far refusing the "tyranny" of any and all cultures or traditions gets you. You've probably got about one or two more decades before all these brain-fried cat ladies and spinsters start voting for white sharia themselves, just to spare their daughters the shameless whore culture that they experienced. I hope all your Instagram "likes" were worth it. Woo! Freedom!

More seriously, go look into what alienation means in terms of the subject's own desires. Surprise, the question of whether "liberating the individual" is synonymous with every-man-for-himself irresponsible hedonism, and the question of how a society that values freedom should deal with the threat of irresponsible hedonism or with parasitic citizens, is an old one in liberal political discourse. I keep trying to suggest this to you in mild and joking ways, by indicating that it's a complex relationship and not a binary one. You keep replying "YOU WANT X? ME WANT NOT-X! X BAD!" So I don't know where else to go.

I want young women to want to be more than whores. You want young women to be free to be whores. But your whore-freedom exists at the expense of an indulgent society that is becoming less and less indulgent with every passing day. I'm not telling you that I am going to theoretically impose sharia, I'm telling you that you are provoking sharia by demanding that society be some kind of orgyporgy zone with limitless tolerance for useless eaters.

>>14929552
I agree and I think most good things in life involve navigating between shitty extremes. Too much compassion is coddling, too little compassion is hobbling. The normal way to overcome illusory no-win binaries is through force of will. It's called the coincidentia oppositorum, the coincidence of opposites, attained by reaching a higher perspective under which they are no longer opposites.

Women have been shipwrecked on the antinomies of bourgeois values for two centuries. Male culture, down to its lowest and most invisible levels, subtly promotes acts of the will to overcome antinomies. But female culture, which is parasitic on male culture, encourages whining, pointing at the antinomies and going "guyyyyssss it's too harrrrrrrrdddddd :( how do you expect me to do this unless you make it easy? you must have cheated :(!!!"

At a conscious level, men look at the visible antinomies and think "I mean.. I guess she's right?," because the act of overcoming antinomies is an unconscious, instinctive one, inculcated in men through rituals and behaviors accumulated over millennia and distributed throughout society. So they let women off the hook and coddle them. But the same instincts make them think that women are useless retards who can't just do what needs to be done, which perpetuates the cycle by making it even harder for women to be taken seriously. Only women can break the chain.

This is a good video about part of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE

>>14928288
I still see 'men' feel compelled to broadcast disclaimers and refuse to shut up about their value judgments. I'm suspicious that the extreme male brain theory of autism is correct.

>>14929568
Considering all that men ITT care about is "spreading your genes", rape is not an effective way of spreading your genes. The woman will either kill herself rather than give birth to monsters she doesn't want, kill the newborn, or abuse the child to the point the child will be a failure and your genes will die with them. Short gain over long term gain, in other words.

>>14929581
>female culture, which is parasitic on male culture, encourages whining, pointing at the antinomies and going "guyyyyssss it's too harrrrrrrrdddddd
>Do not be ashamed to own the truth - do not be daunted by the fear of ridicule and loneliness, nor saddened by the loss of a woman's tenderest ties. Be true to yourselves; cherish whatever talent you possess, and in using it faithfully for the good of others you will most assuredly find happiness for yourself, and make of life no failure, but a beautiful success.

Are you retarded?

>>14929591
Nah, I just want to nut in a hot babe. Rape seems p. logical to me.

>>14929578
A woman could respectfully be a mother, a nun, or a prostitute.The idea of a libertine woman is disgusting and the fact that society has accepted it is only proof of degeneration. Could you make a compelling argument against these feelings?

>>14929581
>it's a complex relationship and not a binary one
>IF WOMEN DON'T WANT TO HAVE CHILDREN THEY'RE BAD AND THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM, ALL WOMEN DO WHAT I IMAGINE THEM TO DO, FUCK CHECKING WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO

You're retarded.

>>14929622
Finally the imaginary person you've actually been arguing with in your head comes out. I'm glad to meet him. I'll let you two carry on while I hope for someone who actually reads posts to arrive.

>>14929609
A woman can be a writer, an artist, a conductor, a doctor, a clerk, a nurse, a secretary, a politician, or any other profession she fancies. Nun, mother or prostitute are not the only roles women can do, stupid anon.

>The idea of a libertine woman is disgusting
Bullshit, The idea of a tyrannical person like you is disgusting, and the fact that society has let you become someone like that it is only proof of degeneration, evil people like you only ruin society.

>Could you make a compelling argument against these feelings?
I already have. Your feelings are completely in contradiction with reality, and born out of a unwarranted entitlement over the lives of others. Your feelings are wrong, and you are a bad person for having them.

>>14929631
>now he denies his own posts
Truly pathetic.

>>14927525
No that's not it at all. Women usually retain some childlike features because they're designed to raise babies. "Motherese" etc

The problem with gender issues is that despite their importance and intricacy the entry requirement is too low. Retards will fancy themselves to have all the answers and so we'll have threads like this.

>>14929578
>Why do you think there must be something wrong with women who don't want children?
They may have some genetic malformation, be of bad breeding or be mentally unsound and thus shouldn't be convinced to procreate. Some people really shouldn't further their bloodline.
>Truly you are in denial of reality.
Not at all, I'm actually happily married myself but I'm obviously not in control of society. If I were I would put an end to this nonsense without any trouble at all and the women would fall in line without a second thought, as would most men. As it stands you yourself is spouting your rather dull establishment propagated rhetoric at me at this very moment.
>When and if to have children is the choice of adults who care for themselves and their happiness, and not let wannabe bambozzlers like you fool them and enslave them.
I'm not enslaving anyone, even if you do seem into that sort of thing. Nor do I particularly care when they take that important step, although younger is obviously better. Again you seem unable to understand what I'm even talking about.

>>14929657
>>14929648
here you go queen

>>14929679
The problem is that anon doesn't want to listen to women when they don't say what he wants to hear.

>I'm happy without children, focusing on my job and friendships and hobbies. I am content like this and desire nothing else, especially not children.
>No, your experience is not valid! Not true! Not true! I refuse to believe you!

>>14929708
>friendships and hobbies.
>women

>>14929708
I don't care about your silly debate but self-proclamation hardly serves as an indication of happiness. If you weren't a retard you'd know this.

>>14929708
Ffs, stop with this strawman, contentment isn't even what the argument was about.

>>14929688
>They may have some genetic malformation, be of bad breeding or be mentally unsound
Quite the assumption there. Many childfree women are perfectly healthy and report no particular traumas in their life, yet they still don't want children because they realize children would worsen their quality of life.

>If I were I would put an end to this nonsense without any trouble at all and the women would fall in line without a second thought
>I'm not enslaving anyone
You wish you could. That's what I meant by saying yours is tyranny and not responsibility. You want to deny people choice over their lives.

>>14929591
Yes it is. If it wasn't there wouldn't be so much rape in nature. Maybe it doesn't literally "spread your genes" in modern society but the actual goal is to simulate spreading your genes enough that evolved reward systems kick in.

>The woman will either kill herself rather than give birth to monsters she doesn't want
lmao no she won't

>>14927773
This!!!1!!!1

>>14929723
Self-proclamation does serve as an indicator, of whichever feeling one is experiencing at the moment. Nobody knows what I'm feeling but me.

>>14929735
>contentment isn't even what the argument was about
Yes it is. Your argument is that a woman is not complete without motherhood, so you keep denying the testimony of women who are complete without motherhood. Complete meaning happy, content, satifsfied with themselves.

>>14929708
>i want to have as much sex without children, 'focus on my job' to have enough money for getting blasted on weekends and buying expensive things for which people in 3rd world countries break their neck and i dont even need them, while getting validation from my like-minded bugpeople friends

>>14929745
That shows your ignorance, anon; female animals besides humans can willingly terminate pregnancies without requiring external intervention as the beast fetus does not invade the woman's body like the human fetus does, hence why rape is ineffective in nature too.

>no she won't
Yes she will.

>>14929689
d-did, you think this tranny was actually a girl?

the narcissism
the petulance
the autism
the sophomoric knowledge of feminism

big, mannish tranny hands wrote those posts.

>>14929785
good thing humans are not animals.

>>14929785
>female animals besides humans can willingly terminate pregnancies without requiring external intervention
name one such animal and its supposed 'motivation' to do that

>>14925533
To have to deal with men is itself one of the most herculean if not Sisyphean tasks I can think of. All that ego, moral obliviousness, sexual addiction focussing on flesh, emotional bereftness, chauvinism, inability to share yourself with anyone, tribalism, proclivity to violence and so much more. Lesbians must be the happiest people on Earth.

>>14929737
>You wish you could. That's what I meant by saying yours is tyranny and not responsibility. You want to deny people choice over their lives.
Yes. And no, they don't have much choice as it stands anyway, what you mean to say is that I would use power if granted and certainly I would. I would be a more benevolent tyrant than the one you already have.

Regarding the first part of your post, if you actually took the time to read my posts I said some women shouldn't be convinced to have children and then expanded upon that, I didn't say any of those points were the only reasons they might not want to. I also outlined their herd mentality in a previous post as one of the major contributing reasons.

As for quality of life, hah, their ability to mindlessly consume? It's no wonder feminism is pushed so hard by capitalism.

>>14929766
>Self-proclamation does serve as an indicator, of whichever feeling one is experiencing at the moment. Nobody knows what I'm feeling but me.
See, this is why I'm saying retards swarm around these issues. What you say is assuming you are self-aware enough and not motivated in any way to lie. In the case of most people, both assumptions turn to dust. I would suggest stop embarrassing yourself and starting with the Greeks, but I know you are retarded enough not to listen.

>>14929798
>Lesbians must be the happiest people on Earth.
this is bait, lmao. Every lesbian has a perpetual scowl.

>>14929783
The only thing wrong in your sentence is this part
>3rd world countries break their neck
I agree that 3rd world countries need strong worker's rights.
I am perfectly fine with any woman doing all the rest, if she's happy, I'm happy with that.

>>14925578
Imagine how dry your dick has to be to write all this.

>>14929785
>r-rape is ineffective
>everyone just rapes because evolution is retarded
i never said animals will raise rape babies. i just laughed at your dumb ass for thinking they commit suicide over it.

and in reality they do usually raise rape babies. someone that raped them succeeded in passing on his genes and makes it reasonably likely her offspring will do the same

>>14929804
>you are self-aware enough and not motivated in any way to lie
I am, and I have no reason to presume other people aren't also.

>>14929809
Say something that doesn't implicitly rely on "hehe u cant get hole" or forever admit you are a hole.

>>14929798
>All that ego, moral obliviousness, sexual addiction focussing on flesh, emotional bereftness,
i could swear i saw at least one woman with those too. what gives?

>>14929818
I'll admit i'm a hole when you admit you can't get any.

>>14929811
Women often commit suicide over rape babies because they cannot autonomously abort rape babies like animals can, so suicide is how they don't give birth to rape babies, unlike animals who can just self-abort the fetus.
If abortion is available, then the woman aborts.

Those who do raise rape babies, hate, resent and abuse them, and that creates a host of mental illnesses that ensures the offpsring will not spread his genes,

All the women and male-women in this thread are just defending women based on a few radical exceptions (probably lesbians or quasi-lebsian). They don't understand, and are probably unable to accept, the idea that general traits exist. Perhaps they themselves are exceptions, and assume that exceptional nature applies to all women - as women are wont to apply their internal world onto others, and attack others with different experiences as being hateful of some real object. Women, in general, aren't as smart or self-aware as men. Women, in general, are more selfish than men. Women, in general, are more capable of reaching for a higher goal than women. And women, in general, are better suited to secondary roles than men. And in general, if you let the general population of women have power, civilization will crumble.

>>14928499
women are happier and respect themselves more being wives

>>14928499
>happy spinster
coping spinster

>>14929845
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-happy-children-spouse-partner-relationship-unmarried-a8931816.html
Uh oh! Facts that interfere with my misogynist worldview! Better insult the source or the anon who posted it!

>>14929836
[citation needed]

>>14929807
>I am perfectly fine with any woman doing all the rest, if she's happy, I'm happy with that.
ok so just be a mindless hedonistic piece of flesh that knows no margin, moderation or introspection. let me guess, you argue about morality and freedom while enjoying steak, fine dining and leather/wool clothes (paid by the 'oh-so-work-and career-focused-tehee' money) for which animals are tortured, raped, and skinned alive?

>>14928575
for a woman, particularly her value, that's ancient.
>>14928601
based

>>14928658
Absolute delusion

>>14929766
>Complete meaning happy, content, satifsfied with themselves.
Complete meaning complete, shaped into what it is, having grown into something. One can grow as a person and not be any happier for it and feel even less content, the point is the change you go through. If a man goes through a war that will change him and sober him up, if a woman starts a family that will make her less self-centered and juvenile.

>>14929836
Except, in general, women outperform men in every subject.

>>14929817
The studies linked below show that self-assessments are generally flawed. Of course, if you aren't self-aware, you would proclaim that you are, just as you did now.
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2010-25587-001
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1529-1006.2004.00018.x
Learn some humility and stop spewing bullshit.

>>14929798
OH NO NO NO.

Women only avoid violence because they suck at it. Give them an equally weak target and their malevolence comes out.

>>14929835
We're talking about nature you fucking retard. How exactly is ending yourself evolutionary advantageous over not selecting the father? Please name these animals that commit suicide over getting raped.

Human women commit suicide over rape because they're raised to believe it's the worst thing possible. And the vast majority of them don't.

>>14929872
lmao

If you ain't like me then you can swing from a damn tree it's a shame women are allowed above ground

>>14929876
Le epin webm posted over 9000 times will surely make the roastie have sex with me.

>>14929339

You're arguing with the mentally ill. They are anti-natalist consumerist drones. How they got to that conclusion is irrelevant, they cannot be swayed. The only important difference is that they think, work and vote to help destroy you. The worst any pro-natalist would do is try to convince them they might not like the path they've chosen. Do not pity them.

>>14929872
name one such subject and the most important one in your opinion

>>14929896
Guess how I can tell you're a virgin

>>14929855
happy, they say, as they chase a handful of antidepressants with box wine.
post tits stupid cunt

>if i pretend to be extra retarded in female ways it will hide the fact that i'm really retarded in those ways

>>14929915
Nice, another virgin. How's not getting laid working for you?

>>14929823
>the only argument women have is some weak insistence that she won't have sex with you. someone she was already not going to have sex with.
why do you believe this is at all effective?

>>14929909
He didn't think of sucking dick as the subject women excelled at.

>>14929909
that was my first post in the thread and you're saying that not having access to a slimy hole is supposed to mean what?

>>14929823
>proves his point

>>14929923
Yet another virgin, great

>>14929835
they don't

>>14929915
Nice cope but:
1. Men drink more than women
2. Men use every type of drug more than women
3. Men kill themselves way more than women
And i'm a man so I can't

>>14929809
You actually made me laugh out loud with your post. The stereotypes are just TOO true.

>>14929909
Women, like you, clearly understand that your only value to contribute to anyone is the hole between your legs. how sad life must be for you when you don't even have the responsibility anymore of giving yourself over to someone for life.

>>14929938
Not relevant. His point is that the sexual revolution has increased female rates.

And men cope more because they have harder lives.

>>14929922
>>14929938
roastie cope

>>14929929
>>14929923
>>14929930
You're the one hating on women in a 4chan thread because you don't have access to that slimy hole so clearly it is pretty important eh?

why are any of you engaging wit vapid holes? if they want to be here kindly remind them what they should do.
>>14929945
post tits

>>14929954
sad cope. show your pussy

>>14929281
I'm a man, bruh. I'm just a good looking one. If you don't have options, its probably because you're failing to be attractive, which is really an easy thing to be. It can be boiled down basically to four topics.

Physical (health, shape, face, etc.)
Social (friends, funny, nice, etc.)
Mental (smart, capable of empathy)
Fiscal (having some success with life, but this one's not pivotal)

In fact, you can slack in any one of these four, sometimes two, and still do alright. You just gotta be trying and you'll get choices just like women do.

>I find it hard to be sympathetic to women

Literally this mentality right here is the only reason you struggle with intimacy. Get over this, improve yourself, and you'll slay king.

>>14929947
It's not women's job to make men's lives easier though, incels think it is because their mommies have babied them their whole lives, but it's not.
>>14929950
Hating women cope. The real blackpill is that you are responsible for your own life and can fix it but you're just too much of a lazy narcissist.

>>14929972
Post tits.

>>14929976
Post tits.

>>14929972
>>14929976
seethe. post tits

>>14929976
>It's not women's job to make men's lives easier
This isn't relevant. Why are you so incapable of discussing a topic without jumping into tangentially related value judgments?

>>14929968
>>14929981
I love how men like you pretend to only value women for their bodies but if you ever got any you'd be a stage 5 clinger.

>>14925578
That’s an angry incels idea of being a female, not an accurate one.

>>14929981
>>14929989
but... I'm a guy. Chest does look pretty good though on account of the bump up in my workout schedule. 3 times a week to 6.

>>14929870
>Complete meaning complete, shaped into what it is, having grown into something.
A woman does not need motherhood to grow into something. The personal responsibility of wise financial choices that come with independent life make her grow into a confident, complete adult woman. There is no need for her to become subservient to others.

>>14926224
Thank you, but none of the bitter basement dwellers here will sympathize.

>>14930002
you've been told to post tits several times now

>>14930002
You sure you're not a tranny? You think and post in a very female way.

Right wingers and misogynists get more pussy than simps and lefties. Disregard all simp posting itt. Right wingers have higher test/are stronger

Anyone else here just stop caring about women?
I'm not bitter or anything. I just realized it's not for me. There are other things I would rather occupy my time with.

>>14929873
Generally != always, you learn some humility and stop spewing bullshit.

>>14930008

I'm not all those people. I'm only:

>>14930002
>>14929972
>>14929064

>>14930010
not a tranny, but def like a finger in the ass during a beej

>>14929990
It is relevant though. It's actually at the center of all of this. The losers in this thread hate women because they initially idolized them as magical beings that'd fix their pathetic lives (see the awful "mommy gf" shit on this board) then they realized that no woman wants a man with a pathetic life and now you see their sour grapes, pretending that they didn't want a woman in the first place and that women's only worth is in their bodies. Well, we all know who's actually coping so i'm going to leave you sad little boys alone now.

>>14929964
based Andrew dabbing on wahman

>>14930028
>Here's a psychoanalysis of why you're posting what you are.
Not relevant.

>>14929964
tell me y'all don't think this is real... are we on facebook?

>>14929818
Calling people stupid whores based on a fantasy story doesn't demand logical argument to dismiss.

>>14930033
What is it you want from me then (Ugh I just said I was going to leave why aren't I?) what exactly do you want answered?

>>14930033
Yes relevant. You are the problem, not women living their lives.

>>14930018
Yes, but in my post I claimed "in the case of *most* people". Sounds like humility is not the only thing you should be learning.

>>14929997
seethe. post tits

>>14930002
post tits

>>14926224

>>14930061

>>14930049
>assigning fault to some problem
Not relevant. The only things relevant are if, why, how women have become less happy when engaging in a "liberated" lifestyle.

>>14930045
You're trolling. Even women aren't that female.

>>14926224
I don't know how universal all these things are (how could I?) but at least it's infinitely more interesting than the incel spam itt.

>>14929915
>>14929957
>>14929968
>>14929915
>>14929981
>>14929989
>>14930008
>>14930056
>>14930061
What exactly would you do if they did then?

>>14930035
>>14930036
>>14930045
>>14930049
>>14930055
>>14930069
post em

>>14930028
what does it matter if they wanted a woman or not in the first place. do you think that all men who CURRENTLY don't want a gf or any relationship are just coping? men simply cannot have a healthy life psychologically speaking without a slimy hole in their back pocket?

>>14930004
That's where you are wrong, the changing relationship between the self and the external world is essential. From hyperindividualism to a more mature and collectivist mindset. This is why old childless hags are so insufferable to be around but grandmothers make for very nice company. But I feel like this conversation has become exhausted and is just going in circles so I will leave it there.

>>14930077
Okay bye.

>>14926224
Good post

>>14930083
cum tribute. the attention they wanted

>>14930087
I'll post tits if you post face pic

>>14930095
a lot of it reads as roastie cope

>>14929045
If everyone says it perhaps you should think very carefully about why you don't buy it.

>>14930087
Post what? idiot

>>14929030
Damn nigger do youbever stfu

>>14929873
>he thinks "generally" means "always" , when there plenty of exceptions
>he doesn't accept the idea of a woman being sincerely aware of her situation and happy with it, even though being on /lit/ he should know writers are required to have greater awareness than others due to the soul-searching, inquisitive nature of their profession, successful writers especially

Take your advice and apply it to yourself, you are the one who needs it the most.

>>14925578
incel cringe

>responding to people damage controlling earlier female retardation by trolling so they can claim it was all trolling

And an element of the female experience I haven't seen mentioned is perpetual fear of being raped. They're so constantly afraid that it affects their sanity. They have to travel in packs and depend on their friends to avoid being raped and this oversocializes them. They are terrified of losing the support of the people around them and will do anything to ingratiate themselves and acquire social status, lest they lose even more independence.

They also have skewed valuation of sexual attractiveness. Because it's so much work to raise a child they historically had to be very selective. To them having sex with an unattractive man is the same as you'd feel about having sex with a man. The constant attempts to have sex with them from people they find repulsive creates hatred towards them.

These tendencies are evolved, not just a result of society. But biology and society create a feedback cycle until you see the extreme sex and social approval obsessed semi-humans around you.

>>14930188
Stop seeking sex from women who don't want to have sex with you.

>>14930188
>They are terrified of losing the support of the people around them and will do anything to ingratiate themselves and acquire social status
How do you reconcile that with the fact feminists are, even now, ostracized for their beliefs yet they persevere in them despite losing social approval?

>>14930380
have you ever been on a college campus? you lose your ability to depict yourself as a martyr when media is constantly shilling you and large corporations are pandering to you. that means that they think people like you will give them more money than people that hate you.

even if you get so insufferable that even normalfags think you're being vitriolic you'll have no trouble finding like minded people. and there you'll even try to become as insufferable as possible because that's an element of status. the way you became a feminist in the first place was probably exposure to those circles, anyway.

>>14925595
men are becoming like this too

>>14930188
Yeah? I mean, I take the metro and creepy unhygienic men like 10+ years older than me are staring at me or talking with me, so hell yeah I'm going with my friends. These people do not say normal things and they are like over a foot taller than me, why would I entertain them?

>>14930091
That's where I am right, if you want to bring up the self and the external world then the self and the external world are already in a changing relationship by stepping out into the world on your own, as adults do.

>From hyperindividualism to a more mature and collectivist mindset
Collectivist mindsets are in nature tyrannical and oppressive, there's nothing mature about them.

Old childfree women are not insufferable to be around by the way, they make wise and excellent company in fact. I enjoy talking to older women like that. Men like you however are are horrible to be around, which is why women avoid your kind.

>>14925890
Uh-uh-uh, that’s not how it works, chum.

>>14930380
>How do you reconcile that with the fact feminists are, even now, ostracized for their beliefs yet they persevere in them despite losing social approval?
Corporate and state backing tbqh.

>>14930477
I made a factual claim, not a value judgement.

>>14928380

EXTREMELY true.

>>14930453
Feminists have existed as a political movement since the 1800s, when college for women largely didn't even exist, and neither did the media nor large corporations. Yet those women persevered in their ideals despite the constant attacks from society.

And even today, a feminist who cares for women's rights and therefore wants to exclude trans people from women's spaces (as transwomen are men) will not be shilled by anyone, and will find the media, large corporations and society trying to demonize her for wanting to protect herself and other women. So no, your post is bullshit.

>you'll have no trouble finding like minded people
That applies to everyone, even incels have no trouble finding like-minded incels.

>the way you became a feminist in the first place was probably exposure to those circles
There are no such circles where I live. I simply started thinking for myself.

>>14930492
>say that transwomen are not women
>get corporate and state backing
Pick one.

>>14930493
If your words were true, you wouldn't called women "semi-human" for the consequences of their reproductive biology.

This thread is an excellent argument in favour of beating women tbqh. Islam was right about women after all.

>>14926224
>you mouth "sorry" as you cry silently,
>you are not sure who you are apologizing to
Probably to God for acting out a lie your entire life when you didn't have to.

>>14930513
Women weren't entered into the workforce because of feminism, it was to drive up production and drive down wages.

>>14930549
>women want to live their life how they want and not how I want, that makes me angry
>how dare women want and enjoy sex for pleasure like men do, women should be miserable
Why the fuck do you lost asylum patients hate so much the idea of women, specifically women because you sure don't whine like about men, enjoying something that's normal to enjoy?

>>14930520
>Pick one.
No, pick two. Feminism is funded by the corporate sector to create better consoomers and worker drones, the split between trannies and womyn doesn't matter to them.

>>14930561
Yes they were. Feminist women have always lead by example following their passions, disregarding social norms and proving a woman can do a profession and live without a man. See >>14928499.

This thread is a huge blackpill. I don't even want to lord over a girl like anons ITT want to imply people don't want women to be whores and incompetently and minimally """self-sufficient""". I would WANT to help them do chores and help them with the children, if I loved them, but I wouldn't love them if they had been some loose whore in the past. Whatever, the type of girl I want is a statistical improbably at best and nonexistent at worst. The type of girl I would like wouldn't like a type of guy like me, so I might as well kill myself, which is the optimal course of action for the majority of anons here. Don't take it as me being facetious; life will be suffering for you and you will become some whore's paypig or you will be alone. Life as some net positive 100% of cases is a humanist meme. What is beyond is guaranteed to be better in someway.

>>14930513
>Yet those women persevered in their ideals despite the constant attacks from society.
Their lives do not resemble the standard "female experience" and your attempt to conflate yourself with them by standing under the same umbrella word is ridiculous.

>I have nonstandard opinions on one feminist issue.
Meh. Is this really making it impossible for you to find one anti-rape buddy?
>find the media, large corporations and society trying to demonize her
No you won't. You'll find them pandering to a larger group about more general issues.

>That applies to everyone, even incels have no trouble finding like-minded incels.
Not relevant. I was describing the female experience. As an aside they're dissimilar in that feminist social circles exist in person and can therefore help you avoid being raped.

>>14930520
My conclusion contained a value judgement. The specific part you were referring to did not. Also the conclusion wasn't judging you for traveling in packs, it was judging you for being sex and status obsessed.

>>14930582
Thanks for reinforcing my point. Maybe corrective rape isn't such a bad idea either and stoning might be justified in some cases.

>>14928380
You’re a complete moron. A male can’t be “androgynous” when the very description of masculine is based off of exclusively MALE traits, and femininity is based off of FEMALE traits. What you said is a logical fallacy. Men are masculine, and females are feminine. How can a man be both masculine and feminine if masculinity is based off of male traits? It literally makes the term “femininity” redundant if males are inherently both, which they’re not.

>>14930583
To claim that people like Betty Friedan and Andrea Dworkin were funded by the corporate sector is not just lying, it's insulting the lives as activists.

>>14930625
There's women's rights activists in Iran, female lawyers, who have been sentenced to 38 years of jail and 148 lashes for promoting women's rights. Just like feminists in the West used to be imprisoned and subjected to torture for their activism.

It doesn't and it didn't stop them. They still believe in their ideals and are willing to sacrifice themselves for them and for the betterment of all women.

>>14930637
Lol, most "activists" are entirely artifical and inorganic. I bet you also think Martin Luther King was just some random guy and not sponsored by the powers that be.

>>14930661
>There's women's rights activists in Iran, female lawyers, who have been sentenced to 38 years of jail and 148 lashes for promoting women's rights.
Those Iranians know how to deal with this shit, good for them.

>>14930669
Oh yeah, the powers that be that are apparently omnipresent and omnipotent yet you can never define and identify correctly.
Sounds like they were sponsored by god itself.

Most activists are activists because of their experiences and their commitment to rectify a wrong.

>>14930681
Not at all. It only creates more and more hatred against you and your kind. The West was not much different when feminism started than Iran is now, and feminists won.

>>14930613
simp

>>14930493
Yeah, about not wanting to be approached by people nobody would want to be approached by, except they gaze at you because they want to have sex with you. Sex/social-obsessed, I do not see, esp. when there are significant failures on both sides. I agree most women are vapid and superficial, but I have many girl friends who are not living so ephemeral lives, who I share thoughts on readings with, go through readings with together, exercise curiosity and compassion. But if you're aware both sexes are just so fucked for the most part, you would know you were worth more than them of both the opposite and your sex, but I get the idea that women are the sexual gatekeepers. idk, it's never been a concern for me, I rather just read than go out with random guys, but yeah.

Women enjoy being raped.

>>14930708
>exercise curiosity and compassion
>girl friends who are not living so ephemeral lives
give a few or at least one concrete example of these

>>14930686
>Sounds like they were sponsored by god itself.
Try Rockefeller in the case of MLK. Can't be arsed to look up who was behind the fat "all sex is rape" landwhale but I guarantee you she didn't get famous because of her thought or "activism".

>>14930701
>The West was not much different when feminism started than Iran is now, and feminists won.
And now it's dying. No wonder other societies don't want that cancer. Women getting power is one of the signs of a dying civilisation and has been historically so forever.

>>14930617
>Their lives do not resemble the standard "female experience"
Their lives are a female experience nonetheless, one you're trying to ignore because it does not fit your agenda. You want to ignore all women whose life does not fit your agenda.

>Is this really making it impossible for you to find one anti-rape buddy?
Considering "transwomen" are all too often predatory men looking for an excuse to enter spaces where women are vulnerable, yes it is. Women who don't want to share space with predatory men like that do not have support.

>No you won't
Yes you will.

>You'll find them pandering to a larger group
You'll find them specifically demonizing feminists who care about women's issues, and don't pander to males.

>feminist social circles exist in person
And incels don't? Look at any alt-right rally and you'll find an incel social circle in person.

Your post contained a value judgement, so your previous post was a lie. And being afraid of a realistic danger is not being "sex and status obsessed", it's being wise, not that one like you could ever understand. I mean it; men die earlier more often than women because men do not consider danger as much as women do, and pay the consequences of that.

>>14930708
I don't know what you're talking about. That kind of situation is part of a cause. My conclusion was about effects. Like I said it isn't just a result of biology or of learned behavior. It's a combination.

Which reminds me of another aspect of the female experience. The niggling possibility that you are actually inferior in ways beside physical.

>But if you're aware both sexes are just so fucked for the most part, you would know you were worth more than them of both the opposite and your sex, but I get the idea that women are the sexual gatekeepers.
What?

>>14930755
>I guarantee you
Your guarantees aren't worth shit, anon. By the way, Bloomberg's spectacular failure proves just throwing money at it does not work, so Rockfeller is not the reason why MLK was successful.

>>14930765
Wash your hands, cretin, feminists did not create the Coronavirus and you not knowing basic hygiene is what's getting people killed.

>>14930709
They don't just enjoy it but the fantasise about it and push for policies that will makes it happen, they want to get raped. But can you truly rape the willing?

>>14930776
>The niggling possibility that you are actually inferior in ways beside physical
The undisputable existence of accomplished female individuals in all intellectual fields has already disproved that claim.

>>14930771
>Not every female experiences the same thing and there are a small number of females that experience something completely dissimilar.
Ok. I was talking about what is generally true.

Tranny acceptance isn't demonizing you. No company is ever going to run an ad that says "feminists who don't accept trannies suck".

>Your post contained a value judgement
I already clarified. Your whole post has just been "i'm a victim because i don't believe something the media is pandering to" + pedantry.

>>14930822
Not at the highest points. Name at least ONE female equivalent for the following:
>Euler
>Leibniz
>Newton
>Einstein
>da Vinci
>Michelangelo
>Bach
>Beethoven

>>14930822
The best females are worse than the best males at every activity. I'm not saying that it's impossible to be good at something as a female, i'm saying they're worried there are limitations on their potential compared to male potential. (Because it's true.)

Something like "a male version of me would be better" despite the fact that isn't really a coherent idea.

>>14930828
>I was talking about what is generally true
What is generally true is meaningless because you treat it as if it were always true for everyone, when it isn't.

>No company is ever going to run an ad that says "feminists who don't accept trannies suck"
They already have.

>I already clarified.
No, you backpedaled. Your conclusion is part of your post, you're trying to act like it isn't.

I wish I could beat up cunts through the internet.

>>14930887
>What is generally true is meaningless
no it isn't
>because you treat it as if it were always true for everyone, when it isn't.
this does not provide evidence for the prior statement.

>Your conclusion is part of your post
I never claimed my whole post contained no value judgments. What i was attempting to communicate is that the part she was referring to was not a value judgement. I'm not going to pedantically remove every ambiguity from everything i type because some idiot is going to attempt to use it as a gotcha.

A lot of incel posts ITT but very few detailed accounts from actual women about their daily lives

>>14930856
Emily Noether for sure, then Hertha Ayrton for her work on electric arc lighting, Margaret Hamilton for her work on the Apollo 11 and making the moon landing a reality, Artemisia Gentileschi and her splendid paintings, Grace Hopper, Angela Morley, Sarah Schachner, Winifred Phillips for their music.

>>14930926
Yes it is.
>this does not provide evidence for the prior statement
Yes it does. You assume what you think is true to be true at all times.

>the part she was referring to was not a value judgement
There's no "parts" only your post, and her reply was to your post, cretin.

>>14931065
Truly men are disgusting though. They claim women are inferior while disregarding the excellent accomplishments of women, and when pointed out with these accomplishments that the vast majority of men does not and will never have, men try to compare them to the accomplishments of a few individuals, as if a few excellent individuals represent all men - yet they do not extend this same mentality to the accomplishments of women.

>>14931065
>working on apollo 11 is equivalent to being einstein

>>14931079
a) no i don't
b) that wouldn't mean general truth was meaningless
you are bad at logic. which happens to align with some general truths

>posts can not be divided
>the actual formatted divisions do not change this
ok.

>>14931098
Are you trying to downplay the huge historical, scientific and social importance of the moon landing just because you hate women? Damn, males are pathetic.

>no i don't
Yes, you do.

>that wouldn't mean general truth was meaningless
Yes it would, because it would prove it (as it's already been proved) to not be truth.
Women are individuals, looking for a hivemind will only lead you to lies.

You're grasping at straws.

>>14931122
wanna femdom me?

>>14931125
No.

>>14931122
he asked for female equivalents. the people referred to were not equivalent. you are losing track of what has actually been said because you're being distracted by your emotions.

>more pedantry
it is true that things can have averages. your value judgement over how the averages "should" be used are not relevant. this is another example of emotionally charged confusion.

>looking for a hivemind
you are projecting. probably because "looking for hiveminds" creates such a strong emotional response in you that it distracts from what has actually been said

>>14931128
damn

>>14931144
>the people referred to were not equivalent
Considering their quality of their work and importance of their contributions, they are equivalent. You are free to disagree, reputation is a matter bound to subjective opinion. Of course you're not trying to say an opinion is a fact, right anon?

>it is true that things can have averages
Your idea of average for women does not reflect reality, all thread you've been talking of "tarting up", "insta whores", "prostitutes" etc. etc., that's not the average woman.

You don't even know what you're saying.

>>14931193
So apparently
Emily Noether = Euler or Leibniz
Hertha Ayrton or Margaret Hamilton = Esintein or Newton
Bravo, feminism, bravo

>>14931193
>>working on apollo 11 is equivalent to being einstein
>yes
see? your opinion is asinine but it's actually on topic and you didn't have to get upset at figments of your imagination

>all thread you've been talking of "tarting up", "insta whores", "prostitutes" etc. etc.
no i haven't. in your emotionally charged confusion you assumed all people saying things you don't like are the same person.

>i'm not confused about what you're saying, you are
lol

>>14931227
You don't even comprehend the scope of the work of these women, yet you try to dismiss it as unimportant just because they are women.

This is why we need feminism.

>>14931240
We are all anonymous here and anon is all bleating the same incel ideas commonly found on 4chan, yourself included, your attempts to "win" by claiming you're not the same fag make no sense on 4chan.

>>14931284
Math and science is for pseuds and brainlets, but in that category, men are vastly superior. :>)
mysticism, ethics, music and literature are the real domains.

>>14931284
Worse yet, he's trying to say women are inferior, as in all women are inferior to all men, even though the work of these women proves them superior to 99.999999% of men. That's why he needs to belittle their work so desperately.

>>14931353
the work of a select few women does not make all women better than men

>>14931353
>as in all women are inferior to all men
>female reading comprehension

>>14931326
>Math and science is for pseuds and brainlets
Now that's some retarded opinion.

>in that category, men are vastly superior
Female mathematicians and their body of work disagree.

>mysticism
Snake oil bullshit.

>ethics
You gonna forget about the Rand?

>music and literature
I already gave you excellent examples for music, as for literature, Jane Austen and Ursula Le Guin are superior to billions of male writers.

>>14931376
The work of a select few men does not make all men better than women.

>>14931383
>backpedaling this bad

>>14931389
I never said it does

>>14931401
You implied it, and inb4 "it wasn't me", it was another anon you agree with, or you wouldn't be defending his attempts to make an "average" female experience that coincidentally excludes anything that makes women look good.

>>14930856
>Not at the highest points.
>>14930864
>The best females are worse than the best males at every activity. I'm not saying that it's impossible to be good at something as a female, i'm saying they're worried there are limitations on their potential compared to male potential. (Because it's true.)

>>14931389
these are the initial posts about this topic. are you lying or are you sincerely too upset and dumb to comprehend those posts? when you're defending the honor of womankind you should probably do it in less dishonest and hysterical fashion.

>>14931422
>I'm saying they're worried there are limitations on their potential compared to male potential. (Because it's true.)

No anon, it's not true. And no, women are not worried about that either, since we see accomplishments of women like those in >>14931065, >>14931385
and we know those are excellent accomplishments, worthy of nothing but recognition and praise.

If anything, women are worried their potential will not be recognized, because males like those ITT will impose arbitrary standards they don't hold other men to, just has it has happened since >>14930856
, see how male persons are not denied praise and recognition and their intellect is not put into question just because their work does not have the same reputation as some other man's work.

Thanks for proving my point with your posts by the way.

>>14925533
Emma by Jane Austen
Middlemarch by George Eliot
Both of these authors are part of the Western canon for a reason.

>>14929241
Possibly larp, but if you really are, this is not a woman thing. Most people have problem articulating their thoughts

>>14931525
clearly the reason is corporate and media shilling, those are two women you mentioned and women aren't capable of creating works of excellence

>>14929990
It is very relevant, lurk more.

>>14931551
Clearly you're a faggot who doesn't read. Why are you even here? I sincerely hope I'm just being baited.

>>14931479
Sweetie, the "male" list was actually a list of the most highly regarded people in their field. If someone claimed a man with lesser achievements was their equivalent that would also be denied. Sometimes correlation does not imply causation! And sometimes there are selective restrictions that stop samples from being representative! Did you understand all those big words?

You seem to have a hard time understanding logical and empirical implication in general. That means that you keep saying things that neither logically imply or provide evidence of your conclusions. Sometimes you get a little mixed up about what we're even talking about!

Maybe the wikipedia pages on inductive and deductive reasoning, as well as bayesian inference, could help you out! If you try your hardest you might also be able to engineer part of a spaceship or revolutionize hundreds of years of scientific thought! Well maybe not the second one because that's man's work. But i know you'll accomplish big things if you keep studying and limit the amount of time you spend on clothes and boys!

>>14931656
>the "male" list was actually a list of the most highly regarded people in their field
And the female list, even though it's not a comprehensive list by any means, is all extremely highly regarded women, whose contributions have been internationally recognized. Note that I purposefully left out more famous names. They are not "lesser" by any means besides being less famous to the masses.

>If someone claimed a man with lesser achievements was their equivalent that would also be denied
And yet my point, which you fail to grasp, is that his achievements in themselves would not denied. For example, you may not say John Williams is better than Beethoven, but you will not say John Williams is not an excellent composer, and you don't care to compare him to Beethoven because it's a pointless comparison, both having achieved excellence in their own way. Which is what women care about since women are not into dick-measuring contests like you are.
Yet, when faced with the statement: "the undisputable existence of accomplished female individuals in all intellectual fields has already disproved that claim" you immediately tried to disprove that by trying to force a standard on women you don't have for men. That's what women are worried about; their accomplishments being denied by men like you arbitrarily moving the goalposts for women but not for men, not being inferior to men. That claim has already been proved false. Inb4 you try to imply again that the accomplishments of a select few are somehow valid for all men, even the vast majority that is inferior to all accomplished women.

Try to follow a conversation.

>>14929667
You are merely reaffirming my previous post, albeit mistaking the effect for the cause.

I was referring to the somatic aspect in general, not to phenotype, or biogenetic composition, in particular, nor to any contrived mannerisms, which are, by the way, not contingent on sex.

The fact that females are naturally and generally more adept at raising children than males is an extension of, and contingent to, their innate psykhosomatic qualities.

>>14931795
>females are naturally and generally more adept at raising children than males is
[citation needed]

>>14931812
The only citation that is necessary to confirm this is that of one's own recognition, actualized through discernment.

>>14931772
>achievements in themselves would not denied
what do you mean by "the achievement was denied", honey? it seems like you mean "it was not granted infinite status such that no other achievements could surpass it". that's a little silly though, don't you think? if you wanted to deny the validity of comparing achievements altogether maybe you should start with that instead of repeating phrases which are nonsensical from your purported paradigm!

>and you don't care to compare him to Beethoven because it's a pointless comparison
people would compare him to beethoven if the goal was to discuss the greatest composers! maybe a little analogy may help you out!

if some people were talking about whether the best composers were american or german they may argue about which composer was better. i bet a lot of people would say beethoven! but just because they said that it would not mean they were biased against american composers! do you understand why that is?

you might want to repeat that achievements aren't comparable because valuation is subjective. (which is a very big girl idea by the way. did you come up with that yourself?) but here you'd be missing the point again! your opinion on whether things should be compared doesn't actually say something about whether they're being compared unfairly! i know it can be hard for you to differentiate your opinions from statements about reality that contain some of the same words, but keep trying, ok?

i would like to congratulate you on not making any mistakes so glaring as translating "i'm not saying women can't be good at things" as "all men are better than all women". you're improving! i'm just glad that my method of pedagogy is a little more on your level!

>>14931898
>if you wanted to deny the validity of comparing achievements altogether maybe you should start with that
And deny you the chance to prove you have bullshit double standards? Far be it from me to not expose you for what you are.

>people would compare him to beethoven if the goal was to discuss the greatest composers
But that's not your goal here, your goal is to deny the achievements of women altogether, claiming they have a bullshit "fear" they don't have and proving instead the one fear they have is legitimate.

>if some people were talking about whether the best composers were american or german they may argue about which composer was better
A pointless argument, since taste in music is subjective. Something males would partake in. As is your post; you merely see fame and take that as an objective measure of superiority.

>your opinion on whether things should be compared doesn't actually say something about whether they're being compared unfairly
Still denying you are trying to hold women to standards you don't hold for men, eh? Your posts are right here for everyone to see, anon.

Fuck off with your shitposting.

>>14929030
holy cringe, just import an asian wife then

Song of Roland. The part where he tries to break his sword but isn't able to, so it will fall in the hands of heathens and him bleeding out of wound are great description of female expirience. However, the later part where angels come ans take him to heaven for his virtuous life and glorius death, is not.

>>14931949
>your goal is to deny the achievements of women altogether
sweety, we already talked about this. i don't understand what you're saying. the closest thing in standard english would be "your goal is to deny the achievements of women exist", but i haven't done that. you need to explain what your phrases mean or people might think you were regurgitating nonsense from people who want to fuel their victim complex but aren't capable or willing to put forth a meaningful idea that could be evaluated. and we wouldn't want that, right?

>>14931975
>i don't understand what you're saying
Not my fault you can't follow a basic conversation.

>i haven't done that
False! You weren't able to do that. Inability does not negate intent. How typical of men to lie and pretend it wasn't their intention anyway when their attempts fail.

>>14931551
Hopefully this is bait. Women have been writing excellent books for centuries.

>>14931996
I'm not him, just a woman who wants to get more into feminism. This idea that mean are denying our achievements is really interesting but I don't quite get it. Can you explain what you mean, please?

>>14932017
This thread is an excellent example. Someone posted Louisa May Alcott, an absolutely accomplished woman and writer, stating that she is happier being unmarried and many women are also happier without children or men, and that started a whole outrage and denial shitposting reaction from anon angry at woman saying that.

>>14932050
I'm still not sure I understand. What are they denying? That her work was any good at all? If they wanted to make a top 10 novels list would they be denying her work if she wasn't in it?