/lit/ - Literature

swap the cheney group and the spencer group

>war am bad
These retards think they are living in isolation. If US wouldn't have presence around the world Russia or China would just move in, and soon would bring the threat of war closer to home.

Richard Spencer is an obstuse boomer intellectual who's only relevance is a few witty one-liners and saying he likes an ethnostate. He's insufferable for everything except why he's hated, which is cartoonish at best. His anti-war stances are purely intellectual and completely irrespective of human behavior.

>>14927540
War is not life affirming. The odds of war wiping out only the worst of us is too great thus it never works out for the best.

Honestly the Vietnam war was actually a win for the USA and if you disagree you are retarded.

>>14927723
expand

>>14927540
Sorel

>>14927540
>heh you think 99% of veterans saying war is hell know anything? One german guy said it was kinda fun so yeah... guess ur just a cuck.

1 in 10 men has the potential to be a good soldier, 1 in 100 is a natural, these are facts

>>14927550
Why are Americans dying for the greater Israel project though?

>>14927540
Even Nietzsche thought war is life-negating.

>>14927723
War is a continuation of politics and nothing else.

You lost Vietnam. You lost Irak. You lost proxy war in syria.

Nice job during desert storm tho

>>14927760
wrong, wars are just aesthetics
we went over there and looked cool and they looked dumb and got blown up so we win
I could even show you pictures if you need more convincing but I wont

>>14927540
Iliad
maybe Might is Right

>>14927760
I'm not even american bro, im a ruski who respects the war.
>>14927732
no

>>14927748
Where does he say this?

>>14927797
vietnam was in no way a "win" for the US

sounds like you're looking for some GI Joe comics

>>14927785
>iliad
Read it again.

>>14927760
>>14927824
domino theory was real, USA showed other countries it wasn't worth becoming commie because they would get owned

>>14927824
maybe if you have lower than 123 iq

>>14927854
but that didn't happen
>>14927858
woah

>>14927540
Try Dragonball Z

>>14927849
Alexander the great slept with a copy under his pillow

>>14927540
>life-affirming
I would think the biography of any general and the impact of their deeds, as in the fact that you are reading about their deeds some time later and how they impacted history. Caesar in Gaul, Cortes in Tenochtitlan

I think it has to be written from a "necessary evil to get an worthwhile goal" POV by the author to be accepted and not to sound to much like a serial killers diary.

>>14927870
I know. But the Iliad definitely does not put a positive view on the conflict. Achilles, who Alexander LARPed as, is put as a somewhat petty character in the story, too. Achilles not only lets his fellow soldiers die, but actually prays for his mother to ask Zeus to benefit the Trojans purely out of spite for Agamemnon (who is also a dickhead, by the way). Then Patroclus dies, and Achilles goes on a murderous rage. Not fighting for honour, not fighting to defend Greece, but merely throwing a demigod tantrum. There's a reason why, at the end of it, he acknowledges his mistakes and lets Hector's father bury his son.

Not that I'm saying that Homer had the "WAR BAD" mentality while writing the Iliad, as he was very much above the retarded black and white morality that we live with nowadays, but the Iliad isn't really a book showing the glory and honour involved in war either.

>>14927923
I don't get how being in touch with his feelings makes Achilles a bad guy.

>>14927928
He isn't necessarily a bad guy, but he is far from noble.

im not even sure if you should have an opinion on war before you've experienced it yourself to some degree, just because how complicated and heavy it is, ive been pondering joining the crimea conflict for this since regular peace-time army doesnt cut it maybe i'll get shot and that'll cure my depression hhh

>>14927540
I view war as not life affirming, but nevertheless beautiful. Something pleases me greatly about mass human suffering. Akin poo poo pee pee pepes and "yes" chad wojaks, whoever is butthurt is losing, and whoever is affirming and pleased with the result is the winner. Pepe may have shat everywhere and look disgusting, but at least he is smiling and not covered in shit. For the same reason I radically accept all mass human suffering and war, and by definition I am made the "winner".

>>14927947
>you haven't died yet so why do you have an opinion about death? you shouldn't be scared

>>14927947
>the crimea conflict
The what?

>>14927973
I have died so I am allowed to have an opinion on it. Source? Me. I was there. I remember. Reincarnation.

>>14929112
cyka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

>>14929133
based

>>14927947
Weren't there foreign legions available on Ukraine' side?

>>14929410
No

>>14927723
maybe if trump signed the tpp

>>14927540
pic related

>>14929133
And the Russians won already. Why would they want you?

>>14930135
He means the war in Donbass

>>14929410
I'm not sure. I'm not too invested in the conflict and the idea is partly an afterthought. It would be the only conflict I'd consider joining since I can't stand warm weather. Otherwise I'd just join the regulars or the french foreign legion.

>>14927540
Evolas Metaphysics of War.

>>14927560
It’s quite pathetic that he’s become the face of the dissident right in America.

>>14927540
This sicko

A Lasting Peace through the Federation of Europe and the State of War - Rousseau
(Basically says war is good but only when dignified.)
Any primary sourced piece on Rommel will probably do.

>>14927760
>Nice job during desert Storm
Thanks!

>>14927723
Only real spenglerian niggas know

>>14927540
Quran, but it has to be just war.

>>14927760
>>14927854
>>14927862

Actually Chomsky has begrudgingly admitted this several times. The Vietnamese communists won but at a human cost that was insane, I mean truly appalling. No one in their right mind would look at that victory and think "I want that for my people."

>>14927923
>>14927945
The Greek conception of nobility was not the same as ours. There was nothing noble, for them, about blindly fighting for your nation or your fellow soldiers or whatever. The entire point of the Iliad is that the people in charge of the nation, like Agamemnon, are dickheads. The soldiers fighting for their nation are all raping and pillaging dickheads. There is no nobility in fighting for these people. Nobility for them was fighting for yourself and being good at it.

>>14927760

The past 30 years have shown how based HW was.

> Panama- based

> Gulf War- unfathomably based

> re-unified Germany: also based

>>14930158
What side is he fighting on?

>>14929133
I don't think the War in the Donbass is taking volunteers anymore, pretty sure the last explicit volunteer regiment disbanded late last year

>>14927540
The Iliad and the Aeneid take a particular joy in war and martial strife.

>>14927723
Amerikikes have never won a war, and never will.

>>14931114
yeah those British subjects of Great Britain will never win a war

>>14931143
The colonies were a mistake desu.

>>14927923
>>14930952
I would say much of the story is a quest for Kleos among men. As far as pro-war I am not sure, but the book opens with singing praise of the "great Achilles" who was great because of how many men he killed in the war. I would say that is evidence of at least respecting war as something that can make individual men/soldiers great. And to OP's question, obtain Kleos through war was certainly life-affirming to many of the ancient Greeks.

>>14927550

riffing off of >>14927550
if Israel wasn't there, somebody else would be. Israel has great influence sure, but don't lose sight of that in Israel's absence there would not be another beneficiary of American military action/strategy in the ME. the game has been, and perhaps still is, to be on America's good side in the balance of power strategy. Israel is just the best at it for a multitude of reasons, but at the risk of being reductive, the big one is obvious -- a very influential number of the smartest, most industrious people on this earth, irrespective of their nationality, wish to see Israel's thrival, and they have the agency to accomplish this desire in spades

>>14927766
>wars are just aesthetics
How wide can you gape?

>>14927667
>War is not life affirming.
>Never stood on conquered foes.

>>14931481
but would they be involved in the same way as Israel? Israel and America's connection is unique; there exists no other "ally" as protected or cherished as they are, no other group is payed as much lip service and no one has as much lobbying power as they do through AIPAC. I agree with what you've said about a group of very influential people favoring Israel's thrival, but I doubt that they would all collective act as they do, if it weren't for Israel. I'm yet to come up with an answer to this problem (or at least that isn't pol-tier with a child sacrifice globalist cabal)

>>14932030
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V799dZocfA&t=8442s
not sure this video will answer your problem, but i find it solid primer as far as amateur youtube videos go

Given how easy-to-read geopolitics books are it's amazing that /lit/ doesn't seem to have the first fucking clue. (outside of a few based posters)

>>14927540

An unpopular and poorly written but very much on-subject choice

>>14927723
The USA has never won all the wars it started.

>>14927760
there's a McDonald's in Hanoi. Your argument is invalid.

>>14927760
Where the fuck is Irak?

>>14931988
>Death affirming
>Damaging ones own psyche
I stand on the corpse of your weak argument.

>>14927928
It isn’t wrong for Achilles to be upset about Briseis or even for him to mope a while, but going out of the way to help the other side is definitely taking it too far

>>14931960
Real wars are not aesthetic. Art featuring war can be, but very rarely does it reflect the reality

>>14936271
Sorry, meant to reply to >>14927766

Metaphysics of War by Julius Evola

>>14927742
The 99% of veterans who say it was hell doesn't argue against war itself
No-one is saying that war is pleasant. It is probably a nightmare to experience 99% of the time. That doesnt detract from it. Childbirth is probably physically horrific for a woman to experience, does that detract from what childbirth objectively is?
The suffering experienced in war is part of what makes it transcendent.
A man could go his whole life living a boring, meaningless existence and die in his sleep at 80. Then he is nothing, just an animal who lived and died.
If he went to war at 25, and suffered, and saw death, and caused death, and saw glory, and saw hell on earth, then he truly lived, and he learns more about humanity and what it means to be human than any of us could imagine.
The physical suffering and discomfort of war is the price you pay for the metaphysical transcendence of the experience.
Physical comfort for its own sake gives you nothing

bump

>>14936586
>>14927742
This number is false anyways. When you look at the old interviews plenty of soldiers say even WWI was the best time of their lives.
It's just the politics that promotes anti-war lit and movies that gives a false picture.

>>14927540
Ive got the implicit message in a good amount of books. If you look into it, war just shows the extremes of humanity. People like tragedies even when they are sad. People like drama and conflict. we find it evocative and captivating.

>>14929680
He was just butthurt his side lost desu

>>14937760
wow what a retarded post

>>14931988
Everyone loves the sound of that until somebody else is standing over their corpse.

>>14930959

Indeed. He was legitimately the last president who had any fucking clue what he was doing foreign policy-wise. Everyone since him has been a massive retard.

>>14929680
FAGGOT

>it's another 'sheltered 16 year olds from a first world country extol the virtues of war' episode
I think I'll pass.

>>14937760
Everything he said was correct though? Where's your objection other than just pointing and sputtering?

>>14941315
16 year olds in 1912 said the same thing

>>14927540
Shouldn't the peak of the bell curve be a sort of neutral and inactive acquiesce to systematic violence.

>>14936586


>>14937085
Stalingrad
The bombing of tokio
Nanking
Emptying of the Warsaw ghetto
Nukes
Literally countless other acts of atrocities

Surely the best times these people ever had.

Also take the caparth expedition in ww1 by the Austrians. What's transcendental about someone rationally reaching the conclusion that in order to take a mountain papermache shoe soles would suffice, it's not like you're led to death by some sage. What's exceptional about starving and slaughtering?

Almost every sensible intellect that went to war has been traumatised by it. I also know people who go into the woods to shoot deer. They tell stories about how it's the most thrilling thing to make a deers head explode. These two don't even overlap but people who kill out of enjoyment or any personal gain often are the most boring uneducated and irresponsible pitysome folk.

Take the folks from they shall not grow old for example. Of course I appreciate their stories but for one as contemporaries I would not take notice of them and war has been so rationalised that you wouldn't recognizer them behind the face of a remote controlled drone anyway. If you want a metaphysical experience why don't you just paint a painting or suicide

>>14936586
What makes one experience objectively better, or more valuable?

A lot can and will be done in those 60 extra years, more children fathered, more labor done, more personal value expanded by the years of life. Wasn't it Camu who made the conjecture of the 60 year old slave leading a better, fuller life than the 20 year old king.

All of us experience personal tragedy, the loss of a mother or child, of limb or mind, but to say those experiences are little compared to those of warring seems entirely shortsighted in respect to one's own experience.