/lit/ - Literature

>>14916629
Opinion? What's that?

He was right about almost everything

Ahead of his time.
His arguments for active nihilism are extremely valuable to the human who seeks truth in knowledge and eventually finds there is no ultimate meaning to it all.

His idea of eternal return is even more ahead of his time as I think most who read him don't actually realize how real that proposition can be when you reflect on who you really are and what your life really is.

It's a shame you can't really discuss the Overman philosophy without being bombarded by SJWs and Nazis who muddy the waters and miss the point. Or passive nihilists who dismiss the ideas because it offends their nihilistic world view and calls them out on their bullshit. Thus Spoke Zarathustra in particular holds some of the most beautiful and powerful ideas I've ever read.

With regards to his views on women, he is not a women, he admits how little he knows about women. If you can't see past the way he speaks about women then you don't deserve to see the beauty and relevance the rest of his messages hold.

>>14916689
His views on women are pretty based.

>>14916629
I think there's a lot of truth and wisdom in his work, but I also think it can be very dangerous depending on the type of person you are. Nietzche inspired some of my all time favorite authors and thinkers, but he has also been used to justify some of the biggest atrocities in human history. I don't think there's a better example of how art and philosophy can be weaponized and used as propaganda than Nietzche. He's very popular, but also very abstract. The convoluted nature of his philosophy is what makes it so dangerous. In the right hands it can embolden a person to embrace their individuality and affirm their eccentricities, but it can also do the same for very narcissistic and greedy people, convincing them that they're better than the layman and are therefore not bound to common laws. I've learned a great deal from Nietzche, but some of the biggest assholes I've met in my life are also fans of his.

>>14916689
do you feel this is an accurate tl;dr on the übermensch?

>realize that good morals and attitudes are worthwhile in themselves
>live according to these morals not because society or religion instructs you to, but because of their inherent worth

i've never read Nietzsche, but this was how i understood it

Can we talk about how entertaining this fucker is to read? In terms of style, he's in his own league.

Second-rate. Ephemeral. Puffed up.

I used to like him when I was younger, but from a philosophical perspective the only genuine insight I got from him was a passage where he explained how the concept of libertarian free will is a completely irrational exception of human agency from causal explanation. Other than that his prose is cooler than most philosophers, but he isn't of much use otherwise.

>>14916759
Is there an English translation that preserves this decently?

>>14916788
>he isn't of much use
>he isn't of much use to me
Fix'd

>>14916842
I don't think he is of much use in general

>>14916826
Walter Kaufman's translations

>>14916689
Wasnt he a secret christian?

Deep down Nietzsche loved Christians and the Bible. The whole God is dead theory was his key to fame.

>>14916689
He stole the idea of Eternal return from indians

What did Nietzsche think of the Jewish and Muslim people?

>>14917013
And they stole it from the Greeks and the Greeks were originally Scythians.
>tl;dr It is a Nord idea

>>14917017
He hated Jews in the sense of their Abrahamic legacy, the European Jew of his time he saw as a fellow aristocrat among the goyim cattle.

>>14916731

Tldr: overman = overcoming man

I think youre right, but theres more to it. Part of the overman idea is that you can create your own morals, values, that give meaning to life. Not everyone's morals and values for getting through life will work for everyone "this is my path, where is yours?"

In some ways the overman is an ideal that Neitzsche would say we should strive for which gives meaning to the earth. A healthy strong body/mind that isnt hindered by our current human obstacles like lust, envy, sadness, anger, weakness, ignorance, pity. The overman is a life affirming ideal that understands the horrors of mortal life but still asserts life is worth living because he has the strength to overcome it and fashion his own meanings and good/bad and in the end still welcome an eternal return. "Was that life? Well, once more!"

In some sections of his writings it seems like he also means an overman is literally the next stage of human evolution. Some say its our creation of AI or the stage where we merge with machines, I dont know, it would make sense in some cases where AI has and will continue to force us to face deep moral questions and draws our attention to what makes us human in hope's of creating a better being. I dont know if this is the same as the next stage of human evolution or no different than making a useful tool and calling it the next stage of human evolution.

This is what I've gathered from reading Nietzsche's descriptions of an overman.

>>14917013
I think theres a difference between reincarnation and eternal return. One has you come back as another being and the other has you come back as the same being. Both have different implications for the nature of existence and the way you should live your life.

>>14917162
>other has you come back as the same being.
that seems like hell

>>14917065
Rigveda predates every other religious scriptures

>>14917162
im talking about the core idea which is rebirth

>>14916689
>Ahead of his time.
Fits his point of all great philosophers ect being 'untimely'. You're writing for future people.

>>14917180
That's the whole point. It's the greatest litmus test for how much you have embraced life or not. The greatest weight, the greatest overcoming.

>>14916629
CringeCore faggot who blathers on about moral/social issues. Obviously not a philosopher.

>>14916629
An honest atheist, a very rare breed.

>They are rid of the Christian God and now believe all the more firmly that they must cling to Christian morality. That is an English consistency; we do not wish to hold it against little moralistic females à la Eliot. In England one must rehabilitate oneself after every little emancipation from theology by showing in a veritably awe-inspiring manner what a moral fanatic one is. That is the penance they pay there.

>We others hold otherwise. When one gives up the Christian faith, one pulls the right to Christian morality out from under one's feet. This morality is by no means self-evident: this point has to be exhibited again and again, despite the English flatheads. Christianity is a system, a whole view of things thought out together. By breaking one main concept out of it, the faith in God, one breaks the whole: nothing necessary remains in one's hands. Christianity presupposes that man does not know, cannot know, what is good for him, what evil: he believes in God, who alone knows it. Christian morality is a command; its origin is transcendent; it is beyond all criticism, all right to criticism; it has truth only if God is the truth--it stands and falls with faith in God.

>When the English actually believe that they know "intuitively" what is good and evil, when they therefore suppose that they no longer require Christianity as the guarantee of morality, we merely witness the effects of the dominion of the Christian value judgment and an expression of the strength and depth of this dominion: such that the origin of English morality has been forgotten, such that the very conditional character of its right to existence is no longer felt. For the English, morality is not yet a problem.

>>14917294
Yeah but tremendous developments on the mythical genius and what it means to be one, which we still hold with significant consistency, was greatly from Schopenhauer, who in not only distinguishing mere talent from genius also insisted on genius existing for the posterity/another time. Wittgenstein had this understanding deep within for himself too, but yeah.

What was his problem with dual concepts like good and evil?

>>14917317
Its all about amor fati isnt it?

>>14916629
>neet-she

>>14916689
Idk something about the truth is a woman metaphor that haunts BGE makes me think Nietzsche (who would have guessed) had a sense of nuance here

>>14917162
>>14917317
been spitting this idea around in my head lately, what to make of Nietzsche affirming Christianity in the eternal return? To really will all of these things to happen again despite how much he RAILS against it..

>>14916687
>>14916689
Basically the same. I think about him every day and aside from Plato and Kant no other philosopher has made me physically react to certain ideas. I struggle to deal with the possibility that the thing that I hold dearest is actually, like everything else, not just valueless, but poisonous, as is the mindset than idilotorized the thing. and thinking through the possibilities beyond it is one of the hardest things I can do. T b h that’s why I don’t do academic philosphy anymore: there are simply “deeper” things to do, and the difference effects my every day life.

>>14916629

He's a queer.

>>14916629
It's the harshest philosophy one could dedicate themselves to. It's relentless in its demands. Truth is something very different to Nietzsche than with all the other philosophers: pursuing it means undergoing the most reflective form of self-destruction one can possibly undergo. Every other philosopher simply works to rearrange their surroundings in a way that benefits them; Nietzsche deliberately rearranges his surroundings so that they can destroy him, so that he can be reborn in the ashes. Power, not comfort, is the goal — and greater strength must be tempered in fire.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WED584SUWy4
Thoughts?

>>14916731
>but because of their inherent worth

their worth? or because of your inherent worth?

Overrated edgelord.

>>14917146
>Some say its our creation of AI or the stage where we merge with machines,


machines are the prime definition of soulless beings

>>14916759
His prose, even though it might at first glance come over as pretty pretentious/obscure, is one of the finest have ever seen. I read it in german since its my mothers tongue. Dont know how the translations are. Even if I hadnt taken anything away from his philosophy, I still wouldnt have regretted reading him just because his prose is that good.

>>14917138
he did not. his sister was a anti semite and used his dire health situation to further her anti semitism.

We have dozens of Nietzsche threads every week. There is literally no purpose for this thread. I always find it ironic that a man like Nietzsche who tried to be elitist is so popular among mouth-breathing midwits on 4chan and reddit.

>>14917340
>>They are rid of the Christian God and now believe all the more firmly that they must cling to Christian morality.

so like peterson?

>>14918173
did he had will to power?

>>14916768
That's Camus.

>>14918209
That's because we still dont have the slightest idea of what consciousness is in exact more elaborate detail

>>14918421
And it definitely isn't a bunch of whatif statements. True AI will never be a thing.

Many assume he's the ending of philosophy. He's only the beginning

>>14918996
>He's only the beginning
Are there any successors of his?

>>14919004
Yeah like every other philosopher

>>14919004
Heidegger and Deleuze both build upon him pretty heavily and extrapolate a lot of the consequences of his thought

>>14918401
>I always find it ironic that a man like Nietzsche who tried to be elitist is so popular among mouth-breathing midwits on 4chan and reddit.
The herd is ironic in essence.

He wasn't atheist.

>>14917227
And? Could it not have been orally transmitted before that?

>>14916687
/thread

>>14916687
which is?

>>14916629
Reddit's favorite philosopher.

>>14918420
Wrong. That's Sartre.

>>14918401
He predicted his glory. Its inevitably, he will be more and more popular when people start to forgot that hitler degenerative larp.

>>14918206
based

>>14919549
doubt it -- reddit is neoliberal city

>>14917340
This passage really highlights his talent for style. In a way, the entire paragraph builds on the first sentence. If you understand the first sentence, the rest of the paragraph is simply exposition. Nietzsche should be read multiple times and you'll see stuff like this pop up everywhere. Schopenhauer does the same.

>>14916629
self help, not philosophy.

He's great, but nobody understands him besides me, Deleuze, Bataille, and Nick Land

>>14919484
You understand, you are above them.

>>14918401
nietzsche WAS a midwit

>>14919017
>Heidegger as Nietzsche's successor
outrageous

>>14917317
Yea I love it. N inspired me to apply for a PhD program in Phil in Scandinavia. I also applied to Medical school. I’m not sure which path too take if I get accepted to both. I use the concept of the eternal return to think about it.

>>14916759
>>14918305
He's all style no substance
His "philosophy" is unsupported babble
He's based on the Jews and everything else are literally meh takes
Boring to read if you have an IQ over 130 meaning the glitter doesn't effect you

>>14921362
not that you would know about that iq thing

>>14921362
>He's based
agreed

>>14918177
based

>>14916629
I rate it 5/10.

>>14921362
>He's all style no substance

Read Sestov, you clearly did not understand.

>>14917958
>there are simply “deeper” things to do
like post on 4chan?

>>14918388
based

>>14918177
Good video, especially the part about state, but I feel there is an underlying problem of which all that the video mentioned are only symptoms. Only someone like Nietzsche could identify what it is.

>>14918388
>t. walter kaufman

>>14917390
man made BS that is highly subjective

>>14919004
hitler, mussolini, stallin, trump

>>14920960
>Nick Land
meme

>>14916689

>>If someone is merely ahead of his time, it will catch him up one day.

Nietszche ideas are old and useless by now

>>14917403
Yes, but what can be more the love your fate that having it repeat eternally? You're not just embracing this life, this moment. You're embracing this life, this moment for all time.

>>14916629
>based views on women
>based views denouncing religion and herd mentality
>based about stoics being pussies
>was right about everything

>>14919495
it was written before aryan invasion

>>14922222
based quints post
enjoy every moment so you could repeat it over and over

>>14918401
And yet here you are

>>14916629
he is mostly, monsieur, cherry picked by idiots like >>14922261 who have never read any of his work except for the most doggedly mercenary, abjectly political reasons. nietzsche may have loathed many things about women as they are and have been, he may have understood a biological component of that, and a spiritualised component of that, but that is not even the beginning of his point, because for Nietzsche "woman" is something that must be overcome.

>>14922222
this is just an eat-pray-love-ification of Nietzsche into the carpe diem poster child of the 21st century. Nietzsche's amor fati and the eternal return is not a blind embrace of life. It's the acceptance of the Oedipal, tragic wisdom about human life, in cardinal seriousness, as the only necessary spirit for living life, its joyful wisdom. He didn't tell people to 'embrace life', he told them to dominate it, to render it docile to command and authority, so that it could in turn ennoble us. If you can't tune into that in the writings on the Will to Power, then what on earth are you reading in Nietzsche if not some pale reflection of modern liberal happiness 'Embrace life! Do it! be a go getter!' Kill yourself

Very interesting philosopher. Ernst Nolte put it very well when he said that Nietzsche was such a monumental thinker, that one finds ideas and themes within his writings that would otherwise be spread across many many thinkers across eons and continents. This however has the effect, that his grand philosophy is not really coherent, a feature that he himself admits to be present in his writings.

People who write shit like "based, he was right about everything" really should take a healthy dose of Nietzschean deconstruction seriously. Just ask yourself what type of person would actually say something this stupid, especially in regard to someone like Nietzsche who relished in contradicting himself. The answer is of course a pseud who is totally immersed in his adherence to authorities, these types are running amok on /lit/. Believing Nietzsche has all the answers is the lazy thinkers path. Once this assumption has been made there's no real reason to read anything or be open-minded, because one could (of course these pseuds won't) always search through Nietzsche's writings for a ready-made answer that can be swallowed dogmatically. I'm sure Nietzsche would have had little respect for his so-called fans.

I can't find it right now, but when Nietzsche was around 40 he became aware of someone who admired him. Nietzsche wrote a letter to him, saying something along the lines of "I have no interest in the admiration of 25-year-olds".

>>14922667
>"I have no interest in the admiration of 25-year-olds".
What did he mean by this?

>>14916629
I think of him like I think of Rousseau: They were poets at heart, extremely eloquent, and created inconsistent masses of philosophy with brief moments of insight. Nietzsche's and Schopenhauer's elevation of the will does not make sense to me.

>>14916689
>Eternal return
>Ahead of its time
Pythagoras, Plato, Epicurus, Hegel, etc.

>>14917162
Pythagoras, Socrates and Epicurus, to name a few, said, or implied, that all potencies are actuated in eternal time. Eternal return is the statement that everything that can will happen.

If Nietzsche lived long enough to see you folk reading and discussing his books, he would burn burn them all and make sure nobody ever gets access to them, probably kill himself too (again).

>>14916687
based

>>14923024
I dont get it