/lit/ - Literature

>>14895881
>my boys
If only. He did this to prove it to satan, of all people.
Christians will defend this.

>>14895881
The real test should have been to tell job that there was no eternal life while abusing him at the same time. Of course Christians will tell me I'm stupid and just to believe. It's shit like this that makes me honestly think I'm living in a simulation run by some troll demiurge.

>>14895881
There’s not much of a point for God to explain every question of creation. We’re always going to be flawed humans lacking God’s understanding. The book of Job teaches us that we might not understand why bad things happen around us, but we should still trust God and follow his commandments and avoid sin, as Job did. It’s not as if we should understand all of this anyway. What would change if we knew fully if we had free will or not? Or why evil exists? Does it really matter?

>>14895881
Based job
>>14895902
This. One of my problems with how a lot of Christians talk is the emphasis on an eternal afterlife of bliss. So you are not being good to be good, but for a reward. I think it’s fine to put it that way for the masses, bread and circus and all that, but I personally always took the bliss as of one of transcendental assuredness and contentment with your values and action, not for bodily or extra bodily pleasure. It would have been a good ring of gyges test, and in a way, it is, but more explicitly so if God denied Job eternal life. Then his faith would have to be the most pure.

>>14895944
>creates you, puts you on earth, tests you all your life, and then punishes you if you fail
>and he knows if you're going to fail or not.
IT'S TOTALLY FAIR GUYS.

>>14895881
>I have the critical analysis abilities of an eight year old

I don't even know why God tested Job if he knew the outcome already. Fuck I wish God would just come down and answer all my questions or at least have a piece of widely available literature that addresses nearly every question and doubt, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I have to torture myself thinking about these things.

>>14895944
If people could find this answer satisfying then Christians wouldn't have made up a million different theodicies to rationalize suffering

>>14895884
>did this to prove it to satan, of all people.
All that was just setting the scene. It's clearly a fable that provides the means for in depth discussion of the problem of evil. What is most interesting about the book is that it doesn't actually get answered with any finality.

>>14895948
Yea I hear Christians talk shit about hedonists as well and then they talk about how cool it is that they're going to live forever in a paradise happy lol.

>>14895881
Old Testament "God" is the Demiurge. Give it up, Christians.

>>14895881
when did this board turn into r/atheism. please read and critically think before repeating ideas you already heard a thousand times in order to bait

>>14895981
this board is christian because 4channers are contrarians. If most people were religious this board would be jerking itself off to atheism. Don't pretend otherwise please

>>14895973
Based.

>I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH A TEXT WRITTEN THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO. THATS THE POINT, R-RIGHT GUYS?! ITS A YES OR NO? RIGHT?!?!

>>14896000
>I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU ANON. GOD JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO MY INTELLIGENCE, THEREFORE, I UNSUBSCRIBED

>>14896000
>>14896003
>DON'T QUESTION JUST PRAY

>>14895975
I still modestly like Christians of that type more than plain hedonists, since that sort at least requires a leap of faith. At least a hint of transcendental belief in their principles instead of immediate gratification.

>>14895949
I know it's so gay. I didn't ask to be born and God just expects me to ignore all the things about the bible that don't make sense like it's so easy, and then when I can't he's going to fucking raise me up and burn me because I couldn't larp hard enough.

>>14896000
>>14896003
>>14896010
>don’t discuss, just Womack at each other until the oponent is startled and leaves the battlefield.

>>14896013
Yes I guess it Is a little better.

>>14895963
If your IQ is triple-digit, the book creates more stupid questions than answers.

>>14896010
SEMPER FI OR DIE HEATHEN

>>14896038
Yea I agree. I actually think there's something about the bible with all the prophecies and stuff, but then I come up with criticisms that I don't have answers for, and it just makes it so hard to have faith. It's so unbelievably gay, especially when all I hear is "have faith bro, read Job bro"

>>14895979
> Old Testament "God" is the Demiurge.

Despite sounding like a shitpost, I think this is on point, and it's almost in agreement with Carl Jung's book 'Answer to Job'. Jung's idea was that Job is consciously and willingly experiencing suffering which had an effect on god; it transformed god and made him more conscious. God undergoes a process of transformation in the Old Testament and into the New Testament. This process of transformation is correlated with the transformation of the collective psyche. Job was a proto-Jesus.

Something like that.

>>14895963
If you ignore it you are the only one to blame

>>14895881
>>14896110

148:6.2."My son, you do not comprehend the meaning of adversity or the mission of suffering. Have you not read that masterpiece of Semitic literature—the Scripture story of the afflictions of Job? Do you not recall how this wonderful parable begins..

148:6.3."Although transgression of divine law is sooner or later followed by the harvest of punishment, while men certainly eventually do reap what they sow, still you should know that human suffering is not always a punishment for antecedent sin. Both Job and his friends failed to find the true answer for their perplexities. And with the light you now enjoy you would hardly assign to either Satan or God the parts they play in this unique parable. While Job did not, through suffering, find the resolution of his intellectual troubles or the solution of his philosophical difficulties, he did achieve great victories; even in the very face of the breakdown of his theological defenses he ascended to those spiritual heights where he could sincerely say, 'I abhor myself'; then was there granted him the salvation of a vision of God. So even through misunderstood suffering, Job ascended to the superhuman plane of moral understanding and spiritual insight. When the suffering servant obtains a vision of God, there follows a soul peace which passes all human understanding.
https://bigbluebook.org/p/1662/

>>14896038
is that not proof that the book is not from God? if the almighty, all knowing creator of everything actually wanted to communicate with creation, and wanted to guide them towards something, you'd expect that the guidance at least isn't moronic. a book full of holes like that either isn't from God, or, if it is, then God doesn't really give a fuck about who believes or not. what even is the point of existence, according to the Bible? why did God create us?

>>14895881
>I, as an omniscient being, need to make you absolutely suffer so I can prove to my boys you can still love me even if I still abuse you

>>14896557
Probably so he could derive some happiness or something from watching human beings live in paradise, and having them worship him. I don't see a reason other then that. Also the Christian will probably just say that there's answers to these holes and that either God will tell us in heaven or they'll probably come up with some cope saying that if God explained more the world would end or something bad would happen.

>>14896626
I-Is that a BIONICLE?

>>14895963
Job had the choose God, even if He already knew the outcome. God sees our intent but judges our actions. Imagine being punished for a crime you didn't commit. By allowing us to commit evil and fully follow through, God is allowing us to be fully accountable and deserving of His judgement. In the same way, Job had to actually choose God even in deep suffering, to be fully worthy of the glory given for choosing Him regardless.

If God came down and answered your questions, there wouldn't be a choice, it would be matter of fact. How could you be tested on your belief if you only had to open your eyes? No, it is in the depths if insurmountable evil we live and are tested daily. We can choose to succumb and sink into the degenerate around us, or reach out for the only one who can truly help us.

To grasp, you must first open your hand. Let go.

>>14895884
In the original hebrew, he is just called the adversary. It was then translated into Satan in the kjv bible.

>>14895881
>Being a brother to dragons and a friend to owls is a bad thing

The part that most confused me about the book.

>>14896852
This is so fucking stupid. Why is it so necessary that my mind has to be at war constantly over all this bullshit? Also God sent Jesus down to talk to people and he answered questions, was that making it a matter of fact? This is the levels of cope you need to go to "oh it's somehow bad for God to explain things to me"

>>14896898
>He did this to prove it to the adversary of God
How does that make it any better?

>>14895902
At the time of the Book of Job's writing, the Jews probably didn't believe in an afterlife of eternal bliss

>>14896852
Why does it matter if all you have to do to find the truth is open your eyes? All the angels have to do is open their eyes. All Adam and Eve had to do was open their eyes. God explains some things but chooses not to explain other things. According to you answering questions is somehow bad yet that's what the bible is supposed to be about. Revelation. God knows how much my doubts effect my ability to have faith but you say that's somehow good, I don't think it's good, I'm probably going to hell because of the questions I have. Also I don't see why God needs to let people carry out their intentions. if you had a child and you knew it was about to do something really stupid, are you just going to sit there and watch it carry out it's intentions?

>>14897113
I don't know about an afterlife of eternal bliss, but Job very clearly mentions the ressurection

>>14896933
Owls are creatures of the night, and they inhabit ruins and wild places. Also sometimes the word "owl" is used to translate ancient names for monsters, like how certain translations will sometimes refer to Leviathan as a crocodile

>>14897126
That is post-hoc Christian exegesis

>>14895881
read it before posting pls

>>14897122
Pride keeps us from God. His work is all around us, we need only the humility to accept His signs.

>>14897137
>Owls are creatures of the night, and they inhabit ruins and wild places

But they make pretty cool friends. It takes serious work to gain an owl's trust.

>Also sometimes the word "owl" is used to translate ancient names for monsters, like how certain translations will sometimes refer to Leviathan as a crocodile

Well that makes sense.

>>14895902
>It's shit like this that makes me honestly think I'm living in a simulation run by some troll demiurge.
this, like Christianity (not Christ) literally seems like a practical joke

>>14897214
By pride you mean not wanting to throw yourself into a religion that you see major holes in that you have no answer for, and for some reason God does not care to answer them. Why should I think the bible is the word of God and not just some troll from some troll demiurge if It does not make sense? Surely if God addressed some of the doubts I have and have heard of it would embolden his believers? Yet he doesn't do this does he?

>>14896065
try and talk to a Christian about this and you'll just get called heretic

>>14897214
>pride keeps us from God
no you fucking retards, every single time with this inversion, YOU ARE THE PRIDEFUL ONES, YOU ARE THE ONES GALLIVANTING ABOUT THREATENING PEOPLE WITH INFINITE SUFFERING

>>14897230
>But they make pretty cool friends
You're approaching this all wrong, think about what night and the wilderness symbolize in the Bible. "Weeping and gnashing of teeth" and all that.

>>14895881
https://discord.gg/wqM6KqY

>>14897316
>what night and the wilderness symbolize in the Bible

Where prophets fuck off to when they're tired of dealing with plebs?

>>14896065
>in agreement with Carl Jung's book
>Jung's idea
>had an effect on god
>it transformed god
>God undergoes a process of transformation
>process of transformation
>collective psyche
OH NO NO NO NO

>>14897346
I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent board

>>14896065
>it's almost in agreement with Carl Jung's book 'Answer to Job'
omg! do you get your theology from carl jung too? he and peterson should be retroactively made Church Fathers lol! kek! read maps of meaning!

>>14897407
>>14897417
Both of you are cringe and have to go back

>>14897407
dangerously based.

>>14897425
>cringe
>gets his theology from degenerate atheists who don't even have a coherent view on scripture
LMFAO

>>14897434
>>14897407
>>14897417
Based.

>>14896065
>>14895979
>>14897425
Cringe.

>>14897440
go back.

>>14897413
But what I said is true. Moses and Jesus would both fuck off into the wild night after being tired of dealing with morons.

>>14895963
>or at least have a piece of widely available literature that addresses nearly every question and doubt
but you have it

>>14897459
The entirety of /lit/ was consecrated to to our Holy Teacher Guenon (pbuh).

>>14896065
>had an effect on god; it transformed god
Did you think before writing this? This isn't a board for the unintelligent.

>>14896065
>Despite sounding like a shitpost, I think this is on point, and it's almost in agreement with Carl Jung's book 'Answer to Job'. Jung's idea was that Job is consciously and willingly experiencing suffering which had an effect on god; it transformed god and made him more conscious. God undergoes a process of transformation in the Old Testament and into the New Testament. This process of transformation is correlated with the transformation of the collective psyche. Job was a proto-Jesus.
>Something like that.