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/lit/ - Literature


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14888013 No.14888013 [Reply] [Original]

https://spectator.us/like-about-coronavirus-slavoj-zizek/

>‘OK, can do it, but I am ill (NOT the virus).’

>With that, the interview is set: an hour on the phone with Slavoj Žižek.

>As I thanked Žižek for his time, he stresses, ‘Don’t expect too much. It’s not the virus, but…how do I put this, I have a lot of symptoms of the virus, but hopefully not the virus.’

>‘I’ve had these symptoms for years,’ he noted. ‘You know I’m sneezing all the time, and so on.’

>We are meant to discuss Žižek’s upcoming book of essays, A Left That Dares to Speak Its Name, which the 70-year-old says is an easier read than the majority of the books he has written in the past five decades.

>But Žižek is far more eager to talk about the COVID-19 coronavirus.

>‘Europe is approaching a perfect storm,’ he says, before asking whether I’d seen ‘that stupid movie about that fishing boat?’

>‘The movie with George Clooney. It was called The Perfect Storm. You know what’s the definition of “perfect storm”? When calamities, like a tornado here and storm there, unite and then their unification multiplies their effect,’ he explained. ‘I think that Europe is now approaching a perfect storm.’

>One of those calamities, according to Žižek, is the coronavirus.

>‘I don’t get it, even what’s happening here. All official proclamations begin with, “No cause for panic, don’t panic”, and then all that they tell you is reasons to panic,’ he said, before noting that both the health and economic consequences of the coronavirus could cause severe damage to Europe.

>‘If you add to this a possible new wave of refugees you get the perfect storm, and I think that Europe is so weakened that it will not be able to react in a unified way, and that’s what I mean when I say coronavirus gives a new chance to communism,’ he said. ‘Of course, I don’t mean the old-style communism. By communism, I mean simply what the World Health Organization is saying. We should mobilize, coordinate, and so on…like, my God, this is a dangerous situation. They’re saying this country lacks masks, respirators, and so on. We should treat this as a war. Some kind of European coordination…maybe even wartime mobilization. It can be done, and it can even boost productivity.

>‘What I mean is that it is possible to keep the good sides of capitalism, but nonetheless, through a coordinated state, social effort to mobilize. Not just with coronavirus, this is needed with other ecological crises, refugees and so on.’

>> No.14888016

>>14888013
>What about politics on the other side of the Atlantic? On the 2020 Democratic nomination race, Žižek says, ‘My longstanding analogies are fully confirmed by recent events. Isn’t it absolutely clear that the message of the Democratic party establishment is, “better Trump than Bernie Sanders”?

>‘I noticed how on the one hand you have this, let’s call it, “electability problem”. The Democratic establishment is saying Bernie Sanders is too extreme and so on and so on, but my God, that’s how Trump got elected!’ he continued. ‘I mean this line of reasoning that “play safely, stay in the middle if you want to be elected”, no longer works.

>‘We have a large socialist movement which gained a serious foothold in United States politics and in the mainstream, and this is incredibly important to be visible there as a serious option.’

>Žižek goes on to claim that the Democratic party and Republican party mainstream are becoming ‘indistinguishable’, pointing to billionaire Michael Bloomberg’s brief presidential run as a recent example.

>‘If the Democratic establishment were to make a decision at gunpoint as it were — Trump or Sanders — they wouldn’t say, but de facto they would have preferred Trump. So I think, politically, there is the irony.’

>According to Žižek, President Trump is too passive. A flaw he cites as being behind the United States’s decision to pull out of Syria, which Žižek described as ‘one of the most catastrophic things that Trump did’.

>‘He sacrificed the Kurds,’ Žižek said. ‘The main victims. Everybody wants to screw them. I have full sympathy with the Kurds. Not so much with the Kurds in the north of Iraq, who are more conservative, but the Kurds in the southeast of Turkey and northern Syria.’

>> No.14888023

>>14888016
>‘Trump opened up with unilateral withdrawal, a new situation where basically the two partners there are now Putin and Erdogan, and it’s clear what’s the target of both of them…to ruin Europe. European unity. People even didn’t notice that a similar thing is happening now in Libya. Russia is moving in, supporting one side, Turks supporting the other side in the civil war, and then they are making the deals.

>‘I think that this is all coordinated. How this tension threatens Europe with new waves of refugees, which if — now it will sound horrible for a leftist — but I think that the new wave of refugees in Europe means a total ideological, political catastrophe. I am for more refugees…but four years ago when there was the first wave, it should have been done in an organized way. The way — this chaotic way — means that it will not only be Hungary and a couple of other populists. Populists will simply gradually take over Europe, and we should never forget what strange alliances we get here.’

>To Žižek, Putin’s Russia and Erdogan’s Turkey are part of a ‘new Axis’ which, due to European passivity, ‘can always blackmail Europe’ through both oil and refugees.

>‘I’m just shocked at this passivity of Europe,’ he declares. ‘We pay Turkey €6 billion if they help the refugees. I thought this is a disgusting compromise, but
OK. Then, the time that we had four years of relative peace should have been used for Europe to mobilize not against the refugees, but to change the situation there…of course, Europe should receive more refugees, but this is not the solution.

>‘The wealthiest countries there…Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates. They’re simply not receiving any immigrants. Why Europe? Why not Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates? Rich, wealthy countries. It should have been easy for them to receive.’

>On the ‘populist left,’ Žižek, is skeptical, claiming they prefer to ‘write wonderful books about why things went wrong’ than get their act together.

>‘I would like to have a modest, realist left which has positive proposals of what to do. Like, OK, to talk frankly, we cannot obviously step out of capitalism. How to deal with it?’ he said, adding that the populist left needs to work out ‘how to use capitalist mechanisms’.

>Žižek, says that ‘the rise of Trump and populism signals the end of this old liberal centrist consensus’.

>‘The majority is disappointed by it and we cannot simply return to it. That’s why all around Europe — Le Pen, AfD, and so on — all around we have this populist revolt,’ he declared, before encouraging the left to ‘do what Trump did on the right’.

>> No.14888026

>>14888023
>‘I remember when Trump began, people thought he was too divisive. No! That’s how you win!’ he says. ‘Hillary lost because Hillary tried to play this game. “We must move more to the center”,…the moral majority, the silent moral majority. I think the left should appropriate this. The left’s strategy should not be, “we are radical, we provoke, we use dirty words in public”…I think that the left, to reinvent itself, should present itself in this way. If by postmodernism we mean obscenity, irony, inconsistency, fake news and so on, then Trump is the ultimate postmodern president, and I think that the left should shamelessly begin to scream, “no, we address not just some fringe group, we address normal, modest, impoverished everyday people”.

>‘The left should also stop this obsession with it’s this LGBT minority, that minority, and so on and so on. I think that this obsession with different lifestyles, minorities, is ultimately just a maneuver to avoid the big economic problem.’

>‘Class struggle is returning,’ Žižek proclaimed, noting that ‘the two surprising mega hits of the last year’, Joker and Parasite, are ‘both movies about class struggle’.

>Whether the digital age will help workers in the class struggle, however, is an ‘ambiguous’ question on Žižek’s mind.

>‘On the one hand, internet, of course, opens up the new space of immediate social coordination. You can reach millions instantly,’ he explained. ‘On the other hand, here Julian Assange enters I think.’

>‘We are gradually becoming aware to what degree the control of internet, who will control the digital space? It’s one of the big battles today…I think this digital space is not simply either good or bad. It’s just one domain of struggle.’

>I ask him about Nick Land and the increasingly popular philosophy of accelerationism, which starts from the idea that capitalism and technology should be sped up in order to precipitate social change. He doesn’t seem to know about Land but he says: ‘What I see good in accelerationism is that I don’t buy this idea that you can oppose global capitalism through some kind of local traditional resistance. Some of my Latino American friends claim we should return to ancient tribal traditions and so on and so on. No. I still remain a Marxist here. You have to go through radical capitalist modernization. There is no way back.’

>> No.14888038

>>14888013
>Of course, I don’t mean the old-style communism. By communism, I mean simply what the World Health Organization is saying.
I'm glad he's being so open about his rejection of Marx lately.

>> No.14888043

holy shit thats edgy. people are literally dying and this dude is using it to support his agenda

>> No.14888077
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14888077

>>14888013
>‘You know I’m sneezing all the time, and so on.’
This man ish like a parody of himshelf. It'sh truly amazing.

>> No.14888088

He's exactly on point that the Democrats would prefer Trump over Sanders. They worked their way into a schizophrenic configuration.

>> No.14888091

>>14888013
so
Just another European Union?

>> No.14888101
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14888101

>>14888043
Go away /Pol/
>>14888013
>Easier read then my previous book
I won't believe it until I see a sample

>> No.14888108

>>14888038
he's been saying this exact same line for decades, it's the WHO that caught up to his position not the other way around
>communism means some type of global enforcement to regulate refugees, capital, ect.
also this isn't a rejection of Marx lmao, he even says in that interview
>I still remain a Marxist here.

>> No.14888115

>>14888043
welcome to politics

>> No.14888121

>>14888038
the narcissism of small differences

>> No.14888135

>>14888108
>communism is a gigantic world government
this sounds like a caricature a /pol/ack would make, are you telling me commies actually do want an NWO

>> No.14888143

>>14888043
lmao'ing @ at your slave morality

>> No.14888396

>>14888108
>he even says in that interview "I still remain a Marxist here"
In another interview he said he's been trying to distance himself from Marx and he outright rejected the communist program stated in the first chapter of Capital. I don't care if he declares himself Marx incarnate -- what matters are his positions.

>>14888121
I hope you're being ironic, because if you don't see the difference between the movement of the proletariat and some ultraimperialist scheme imposed from above by international bourgeois institutions then you're clinically retarded.

>> No.14888443

>>14888043
>people are literally dying
who the fuck cares you brainlet

>> No.14888457

>>14888043
He's using it to interpret. That's all philosophers do.

>> No.14888478

>>14888013
coronavirus is literally going dismantle communist china not europe you doof

>> No.14888494

>He doesn’t seem to know about Land
holy based

>> No.14888505
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14888505

>>14888026
>‘The left should also stop this obsession with it’s this LGBT minority, that minority, and so on and so on. I think that this obsession with different lifestyles, minorities, is ultimately just a maneuver to avoid the big economic problem.’
yes
>>14888026
>latinos want to act like primitive tribes
lol

>> No.14888516

Slavoj Zizek
His mind's a wreck
Fat, dumb, ugly, slob
And yet beloved by the retard mob

>> No.14888551

>>14888135
"socialism in one country" was a Stalinist perversion of Marx. communism is a globalist project, there is no two ways around it. Marx was concerned with the movement of human history, of course it would be universal.
>>14888396
his positions are still Marxist, he's just against socialism and socialist approach to communism as described in Capital. you haven't read much past the Manifesto if you think this is all Marx contributed to philosophy

>> No.14888574

>>14888135
>>14888551
I should clarify, communism is global but it isn't a "globalist state". there would be no state under world communism

>> No.14888666

>>14888551
>his positions are still Marxist
No.
>he's just against socialism and socialist approach to communism as described in Capital
You clearly haven't read Capital. What the fuck is a "socialist approach to communism"?
>you haven't read much past the Manifesto if you think this is all Marx contributed to philosophy
Marx didn't contribute anything to philosophy. For Marxists philosophy proper ended with Hegel (and young Hegelians). Marx:
>(Paris Manuscripts) Feuerbach's great achievement is ... [t]he proof that philosophy is nothing else but religion rendered into thought and expounded by thought, i.e., another form and manner of existence of the estrangement of the essence of man; hence equally to be condemned....
>(The German Ideology) Philosophy and the study of the actual world have the same relation to one another as onanism and sexual love.

>> No.14888703

>>14888396
He simply means a centralized economy. It's a shame that he equates command economics with marxist theory, because it isn't inherently. Interventionism is just another word for it in neoliberal economics. It's virtually indisputable by any good faith analysis that centralization is the only valid response to a crisis level event, like a total war or epidemic. Markets are driven by the profit motive and are limited by it. Markets are for advanced, stable states of the economy, while centralization is for those situations where there is no room for betting and hoping for spontaneous order. It's nothing but a pure cost financially to mobilize resources to contain and control an epidemic spread, market's are quite evidently anathema to them as we have been seeing.

>> No.14888751

>I am for more refugees
>I am for more refugees
>I am for more refugees
>I am for more refugees
>I am for more refugees
>I am for more refugees
Refugees are a far more dangerous and permanently harmful bioweapon than corona virus. If your opinion on refugees and third world immigration isn't "stop it completely as fast as possible", you're not worth listening to.

>> No.14888793

>>14888751
i hope immigrants and refugees dilute all the races in the world into one ugly and uniform mulatto race

>> No.14888901

>>14888396
>if you don't see the difference between the movement of the proletariat and some ultraimperialist scheme imposed from above by international bourgeois institutions

they are one and the same. they both want a global nanny state, but international financiers must first destroy states at a national level.

>> No.14888911

>>14888793
that's the plan of both degenerate proletariat trannies and your globalist financial overlords so it will probably happen

>> No.14888983

>>14888026
>‘What I see good in accelerationism is that I don’t buy this idea that you can oppose global capitalism through some kind of local traditional resistance.

How will Varg and other permaculture pagans ever recover?

>> No.14888997

>>14888023
>>‘The wealthiest countries there…Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates. They’re simply not receiving any immigrants. Why Europe?
Because the migrants want to go to Europe, dummy.
(Also, those rich Arab countries have plenty of immigrant workers.)

>> No.14889064

Thanks for posting

>> No.14889123

>>14888666
kek, communism is the movement of history, socialism is the form of government Marx advocated to advance communism. he is more ambiguous in his early work, but by the end socialism was a scientific inevitability. early Marx's communism was more anarchistic. also only faggy orthodox Marxists think Marx wasn't a philosopher.
>muh Marx was an antiphilosopher
so was Socrates, grow up

>> No.14889153

>>14889123
>communism is the movement of history,
you should all be shot for the way you use language

>> No.14889182

>>14889153
Based dramatic poster

>> No.14889184
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14889184

>>14889153
>you should all be shot for being able to read
weird flex but okay based illiterate

>> No.14889198

>>14889184
that excerpt in your picture is exactly what im talking about
shot. no exceptions

>> No.14889210

>>14889198
>anyone seen writing with a vocabulary above a grade school level should be shot
based Pol Pot

>> No.14889251

>>14889210
anyone writing in a way that obfuscates what they are saying instead of clarifying it should be shot. Taking a word like communism, which is supposed to refer to a way of organizing society, and redefining it to be some particular aspect of your theory of historical progression, when you know this will cause confusion in the use of the term, should carry the death penalty.

Anyone who finds this ridiculous language game interesting or impressive should also be shot

>> No.14889262
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14889262

>>14889251

>> No.14889266

>>14888043
Which is extremely based behaviour. Which I have come to expect from Zizek, I may disagree strongly with communism but he’s still based, he even has a nigger pass.

>> No.14889274

>>14889251
Half of what he says is obscurantist, and half is strikingly insightful and clear.

>> No.14890415

>no one mentions Zizek doesn't know who Nick Land is

>> No.14890440

>>14890415
Land is the reason Zizek supports Trump

>> No.14890457

>>14889251
Marx was a good writer, and was very clear. You might just be retarded

>> No.14890537

>>14888013
I hope he steers clear of anyone infected with the virus...considering his age, how much he touches his face and the sheer volume of air he sniffs he's a goner if he ends up in the same room as anyone with cv

>> No.14890539

>>14890537
Zizek can learn not to touch his face.

>> No.14890588

>>14890539
I just can't see it

>> No.14890720

>>14888023
>Putin and Erdogan, and it’s clear what’s the target of both of them…to ruin Europe. European unity. People even didn’t notice that a similar thing is happening now in Libya. Russia is moving in, supporting one side, Turks supporting the other side in the civil war, and then they are making the deals.
>>‘I think that this is all coordinated.
Europe under the yoke of NATO goes into countries, bombs them into rubble and destroys any chance of a viable and stable state, and then they pull back and look to the side and try to hide away as if they had nothing to do with the current situation, as if they bear no responsibility. Europe does not become engaged, they do not fight for their interest, or to support the fractions they believe has the greatest right to rule, because Europe does not go to war, Europe is peaceful and would never venture out into neo-colonialism. Just ruin countries and let Saudi Arabia and local militant organizations handle the fallout. Then you have the gall to attack Russia and Turkey for moving into open civil wars that you yourself have created around the world, and to call it a coordinated conspiracy.

>>14888023
>now it will sound horrible for a leftist — but I think that the new wave of refugees in Europe means a total ideological, political catastrophe
>Why Europe? Why not Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates? Rich, wealthy countries. It should have been easy for them to receive.’
Because they are fully aware that taking in millions of refugees will cause political catastrophe for the country. He criticizes Europe for not acting, for being passive. The arab states are NOT passive to the mounting threat to their fragile societies.

>>14888026
>>‘I remember when Trump began, people thought he was too divisive. No! That’s how you win!’ he says.
I'm sure he would celebrate the coming of the second Lenin. What a clown.

>> No.14890737

>>14888043
nooo not the peoplerinos

>> No.14891142

>>14889123
>socialism is the form of government Marx advocated to advance communism
Marx didn't distinguish between socialism and communism.
>early Marx's communism was more anarchistic
No, what do you even mean by that?
>only faggy orthodox Marxists think Marx wasn't a philosopher
only Marxists think Marx wasn't a philosopher*
ftfy

>> No.14891178

>>14891142
>Marx didn't distinguish between socialism and communism.
of course he did
>No, what do you even mean by that?
read the Paris manuscripts
>only Marxists think Marx wasn't a philosopher
only faggy orthodox Marxists think only faggy orthodox Marxists can be Marxists

>> No.14891261

>>14891178
>of course he did
Could you quote him saying that socialism is a "form of government" and that it's different from communism?
>read the Paris manuscripts
I did. Where is this anarchistic communism? Where is the rejection of this anarchistic communism in his later works?

>> No.14891277

>>14888013
Remind me why people hate this fucking guy so much again? Even if you fully disagree with his thought you cannot deny how fucking based he is through and through

>> No.14891299

>>14891277
/lit/ has always liked him. Not sure what you're talking about.

>> No.14891309

>>14891277
Because he larps as a commie just to appear edgy, but then
>>By communism, I mean simply what the World Health Organization is saying.
and
>>I am for more refugees
>>‘The left should also stop this obsession with it’s this LGBT minority, that minority, and so on and so on.

He has these boring left-liberal opinions, maybe because he doesn't actually understand politics that well or because he's too scared to say anything controversial.

He should stick to philosophy and reviewing movies.

>> No.14891352

>>14891261
can you quote me anything where he says they are the same? if you want a simple explanation read the section in the Principles of Communism called "How do communists differ from socialists?". if you want it straight from Marx's mouth, it's summed up much less concisely in the last section of the Critique of the Gotha Program. I can't help you read the Paris Manuscripts right now, but if you are interested in this topic just google the difference between Marx's "humanist" and "scientific" periods

>> No.14891428

>>14891352
>can you quote me anything where he says they are the same?
He uses them interchangeably throughout his entire work.
>if you want a simple explanation read the section in the Principles of Communism called "How do communists differ from socialists?"
That's not what we're talking about. That section is about people who happened to be called socialists at that time. We're talking about MARXIST socialism and MARXIST communism, which Marx never distinguished between.
>if you want it straight from Marx's mouth, it's summed up much less concisely in the last section of the Critique of the Gotha Program
He doesn't distinguish between socialism and communism there. You're so full of shit.
>but if you are interested in this topic just google the difference between Marx's "humanist" and "scientific" periods
This is utter nonsense peddled by retards who haven't read Grundrisse. He didn't have "humanist" and "scientific" periods. He did have a short period of a critique of philosophy followed by a long period of a critique of economics, but his views remained consistent throughout, as those were parts of one and the same project.

>> No.14891435

>>14891428
his views didn't even remain consistent through the volumes of Capital, why would they be consistent through the entirety of his work? if you have read all that Marx you certainly didn't read it very deeply

>> No.14891438

>>14891435
>his views didn't even remain consistent through the volumes of Capital
Yes they did.

>> No.14891476

>>14889251
they hate you because you're right

>> No.14891498

>>14889251
>communism, which is supposed to refer to a way of organizing society
Says who?

>> No.14891516

>Thinks the Democrats prefer Donald Trump to Sanders because they are pushing back on an unelectable old socialist instead of Diamond Joe
why do we allow people with no idea about American politics to speak about American politics

>> No.14891570

>>14891516
I prefer Joe, because I'm a liberal. But saying that Sanders is unelectable is just as retarded as was saying Trump is unelectable in 2016.

>> No.14891666

>>14888013
>If you add to this a possible new wave of refugees you get the perfect storm, and I think that Europe is so weakened that it will not be able to react in a unified way, and that’s what I mean when I say coronavirus gives a new chance to communism

With the Wuhan Flu exposing the vulnerabilities of global interdependence, how you can look at this and not see the need for Nationalism and economic independence (or at least some movement towards self-sustainability) seems to me to be the mark of a crippled mind.

>> No.14891685

>>14891666
Žižek, just like other socialists/leftists in the West, is stuck with this idiotic color blindness, where it's all about "class struggle" . He can't admit that sometimes nationalists/identitarians are right, because that wouldn't be PC enough.
Talking about politics makes him sound much dumber than he is, but that's true for most people.

>> No.14891696

>>14888013
it's telling how a petty pseud who could never make it big in Yugoslavia is now extremely popular in the West.

>> No.14891705

>>14891570
I mean, he's electable, but his path to victory is way more difficult. Biden's path is, along with a fired-up base, to pick off disaffected Republicans in swing-states (there are plenty) and romp through.

>> No.14891706

>>14891696
The countries of Yugoslavia today of course being part of that west that recognize him .. ?

>> No.14891717

>>14888013
>‘You know I’m sneezing all the time, and so on.’
classic zizkek, he is immortal

>> No.14891730

>>14891706
who is part of the West?

>> No.14891734

Zizek is a fascinating intellectual gadfly but he isn't a serious classical Marxist in the programmatic sense of the past. However, in some ways he absolutely is _the most Marxist Marxist_ because he refuses to apply his historical materialism through the lens of out-dated and historical programs, but is always asking, seeking, begging for some new program that comes out of the present historical situation, from present historical actors, rather than the socialist sect approach of transplanting the past into the present in a LARPing fashion akin to how certain European far right Nazis LARP historical Nazism for example. In this sense, he praises Bernie Sanders. But in an historical sense, Bernie Sanders is economically far to the right of old school German Social Democracy's conservative wing, who were far more revolutionary, tho socially he can claim more wokeness, but in any real hardline Marxist sense the sphere of the economy, where the reproduction of society through exploitation of labour far outstrips in substance and historical fatefulness all identitarian narcissism.

>> No.14891736

>>14891730
ever heard of balkanization. Austria is Balkan to the Swiss.

>> No.14891742

>>14891734
But he's totally impoverished too because he is constantly and immovably trapped in the tutelage of the never-answered question 'What is to be Done?' He is always asking this necessary question. He doesn't offer serious answers. He is waiting for historical actors to answer that for him. In a positive sense, it is impossible to be a Zizekian, to remain in his tutelage. He teaches nothing but the tutelage of that obsessive question, in swarms of increasing desperation and hysteria.

>> No.14891751

>>14889251
based

>> No.14891753

>>14891685
>is stuck with this idiotic color blindness, where it's all about "class struggle"
What class struggle? He calls for interclassist action against climate change and other global dangers and calls that communism. There's not an ounce of class struggle in this.

>> No.14891756

>won't someone please think of the kurds
Dropped

>> No.14891758

>>14891736
What does Balkanization have to do with my question?

>> No.14891767

What the conservatives and traditionalists don't understand is that it is only Marxism which can conserve western civilisation against the depredations and amoral chaos and barbarism of modern capitalism. The more they have abandoned Marxism and Socialism as the de facto intellectual territory of woke idiots who couldn't even get past the first chapter of a nineteenth century German philosopher and revolutionary, the more they have basically just given up completely. Wokeness is just a part of capitalist individualist narcissism where the identities fetishished within it come out of late twentieth century capitalist identiarianism, which in its indigenous and ethnic forms takes on the appearance of peasant rebellion against globalising capitalism, and in the central zones of capitalist modernity, a sub-cultural civil war where the value of sexual desire (what people want to fuck or be fucked by) and the values of art and taste displace in a sea of post-Christian nihilism all standards of meaning and value. Nietzsche was completely right about the coming of the Last Man. Everything has been leveled and made equal to each other. All races are equal. All products are equal. All identities are equal. All religions are equal. This equalising logic is not a product of communism, but a product of a godless global modern society arranged around the profit logic as the ultimate source of value. Christian socialists have been saying this for ages. The earliest socialists were Christian critics of capitalism.

>> No.14892335

>>14891767
I wouldn't go so far as to say marxism is the answer, but it does have valid critiques and insights.

>> No.14892365

>>14888505
Will forever laugh at the fact that the alt-right and far-left could even work together to deal with rich jews and israel. If you cant even work together to take out a shared enemy why should I take either of you seriously?

>> No.14892432

>>14891767
Good post.
>>14892335
And agreed. Marxism as a critical and theoretical framework has always been and will continue to be a potent approach to dissecting the contradictions and fractures and latent structures at play within capitalist societies. Right-wingers against how capitalism functions in modern times, and especially those on the Right who abhor capitalism altogether, should absolutely read and learn from Marx and others who were influenced by and incorporated the methodology, from The Frankfurt School and the likes of Althusser and Lukacs to Max Weber to Zizek.

With that said, I agree with the second anon here. As much as I recognize its value as a method for critique and analysis, socialism and communism and all variants are merely the opposite side of capitalism on the coin of materialism. Both are borne of the same metaphysical worldview, and result in the same industrialized and mechanized Man.

>> No.14892483

>>14888013
Why is the Spectator discussing /lit/ memes like Nick Land?

>> No.14892492

>>14891706
I am indignant at the mere suggestion that Yugoslavs are Westerners. How dare you call us such a dirty word.

>>14891696
He did pretty well.

>>14891736
I don't think you know what Balkanisation is friendo.

>>14891758
I don't think they know what Balkanization is friendo.

>> No.14892494

>>14891756
What would Cheeses do? ;^)

>> No.14892508

>>14892432
some of us just disagree with the Marxian contention that power can be reduced to economy and its effects.

I see history as much more complicated than economic structures producing social structures. We are tribal organisms and social status influences everything, in ways not reducible to capital. Power is just not the same concept as capital.

>> No.14892540
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14892540

>>14892432
Exactly, spot on. That's exactly what I was getting at with that post. Marxism has opened my eyes to many new just criticisms.
The dissident right has become truly refreshed within the past two years and not many people have noticed because at times they agree with the radical marxists. This has scared off the more mild and superficial /Pol/ users. But deep down the principles of the right haven't changed but have only become more aware.
This stuff truly gives me hope. Alls we need now is quality control.

Oh and as a sidenote I just read chris bonds nemesis and that model has really helped in getting past many mind boggling contradictions within the modern power structure. Very enjoyable read.
And I would recommend the ebl podcast to you, especially the third episode on "capitalist realism". They have some wonderful analysis.

>> No.14892566

>>14892508
The reducing of power into capital seems to confuse and hide the whole process too. Of course they are related, I just have a feeling that capital is the child or tool or whatever. Really though we need a better analysis of what money is deep down.

Generative anthropology has made some interesting points but It still confuses the hell out of me and the marxists rarely get down to the fundamentals but rather like to play around with the shifting sand of capital.

>> No.14892655
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14892655

How can a man be so based?

>> No.14892706

>>14888043
yeah his agenda to prevent more people dying. you retard

>> No.14892935

>>14892508
Well you're in luck, many of the prominent 20th century Marxists, from Gramsci to Weber to Althusser to the Frankfurt School, criticized the traditional base-superstructure model. Loosely, following their criticisms, they sought to improve the model by, well, something similar to what you've just said in your post, anon. In their eyes, instead of the traditional Marxist understanding of society where the economic base, the relations of production, determines the characteristics of the superstructure, the political, ideological, legal, etc. institutions and norms of the society, there is no 'base' or 'superstructure' in the sense of one rising out of the other, but rather as a reciprocal structure in which each side feeds off of and informs the other in a dynamic system.

>>14892540
Damn those are some obscure recommendations, anon, highly appreciated! Added 'Nemesis' to my 'to-buy' list, might be of the few times I buy a book new as it seems all of the listings on abebooks are just for, well, new copies from various retailers. The EBL podcast was a little harder to find as it has such a small presence when searched for I wasn't sure I found anything at all! Any podcast which not only has an episode on Mark Fisher but opens up with an episode on the unfortunately little-known Alain de Benoist, a thinker I've been trying to promote on here for years, is a must listen. Thanks again, anon.

>> No.14893063
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14893063

>>14892935
Yea of course fren, we need better organization for the times ahead.
Oh and here:

https://www.imperiumpress.org/product-page/nemesis-the-jouvenelian-vs-the-liberal-model-of-human-orders

I bough the nemesis book but now it seems they made it free to download ;)

>> No.14893220

>>14893063
Hey, would you look it at that. It would appear fate has conspired to have me both discover and obtain this book before the sun has reached its zenith a single time in-between those two events. Thanks again, brother, really appreciate it.

>> No.14893978

>>14891570
>I prefer Joe, because I'm a liberal
On you're kneels son

>> No.14894038
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14894038

>>14888043
>NOOOOOOOO, PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY DYING!

>> No.14894912

>>14892483
The Spectator has always been cheeky.

>> No.14895540

>>14891685
>t.guy who hasn't read any zizek

>> No.14896744

>>14892492
>they, friendo
reddit is that-a-way pal
also that's what Zizek says on the matter

>> No.14896767

>>14889251
It comes from the fact that many people do not believe in an objective reality. Thus, they reason, if they believe something, and they can convince enough other people to believe it too, it will become reality.

Really it's just old time propaganda: "Resistance is futile," "We are the Correct side of History"

>> No.14896787

>>14891685
nationalists are just capitalists with a postmodern marketing strategy

>> No.14896793

How does he not know about Land?

This guy is out of touch.

>> No.14896886

>>14889251
at which point does saying obvioulsy idiotic thing on the internet for anonymous attention get considered as deserving a therapy?

>> No.14896887

Zizek is a communist
/thread

>> No.14896980

>>14888016
>I have full sympathy with the Kurds.
>Not so much with the Kurds in the north of Iraq, who are more conservative
What a faggy thing to say

>> No.14897136

>>14896744
You might be confusing his jokey comments about the Ljubljanica and oriental despotism and Balkanization. Balkanization isn't about who/what is and isn't the Balkans, the Balkans is actually a bigger area than FYR anyway. It's about a political process of fragmentation that the area is associated with.