/lit/ - Literature

>>14883423

I'd just usually say yes to 'message worth listening to' but the way you have worded your post especially with the regards to mysticism means that you are probably looking for some cookie cutter parables with a 'moral of the story' wrap-up as though esoteric literature is some kind of adult nursery rhyme. The first text you read will filter you out from the depths required to actually gain some semblance of wisdom from any kind of genuine hermetic writing.
tl;dr its not for you, go read Jung

>>14883423

Hermeticism is correct, but it is also a meme

>>14883436
I guess a better way of wording it would have been "a message worth listening to, for a person who is not particularly spiritual". I enjoyed reading stoic works for example, and I like to believe I got some good things out of it, but I could never assimilate it entirely because it's hard for me to subscribe to the idea of logos and providence.

>>14883527
Nani?

>>14883423
You probably won't get it at first. It will likely click after you've spend time with it and gone through many esoteric ideas and books.
>>14883559
Its certainly worth it, even if your just interested in the ideas and not their application. Although, many of the deeper esoteric traditions have a large emphasis on experience over sterile philosophizing.

>>14883423
http://esotericawakening.com/what-is-reality-the-holofractal-universe

/thread

>>14883423
Western Occult tradition can and will enrich your appreciation of any number of things. Alexander went to Egypt for . . . hermetic reasons, before conquering Persia (he was looking for something). The powers and principalities ruling today practice some form or another of it, may as well fight fire with fire. Synchronicity can be cultivated. Try it.

>>14883432
>>14883567
>>14884703
>>14884358
Alright, thanks guys, I'll give it a try.

If I might ask, how did you get started on it? Did you come from a certain background that pushed you in that direction or just coincidence?

>>14885914
As for me, I am the reincarnation of a wizard so it came naturally.

>>14885914
I followed the signs, I know this may sound kinda gay or like I am trying to be mysterious but I literally just followed signs that led me to it, by seeing things that didn't fit with what we are being told or things in nature etc. Everything in my life just led to understanding this knowledge.

>redpill me on X mumbojumbo tradition

You want the real redpill, OP? There’s a few different attitudes people typically have towards religion and mysticism.

Some people, when thinking of how mysticism can help THEM PERSONALLY, go:
>but will this help me get a job? Or will it help me get laid? Or does it help build better technology like the technology that smart experts are working on today?

These people are so fucking blind that they can’t even see how blind they are. They are mercifully occluded to their own blindness. Allah have mercy upon them.

A second attitude goes:
>I myself am a PROFESSIONAL on everything worth knowing. I can 100% guarantee you that all these “mystics” are just schizophrenics! We would put the writer of the Corpus Hermeticum into a mental asylum today and stuff antipsychotics down his throat till he was cured and then decided to go for a STEM degree and become a doctor, and that’s a good thing.

The people with this attitude are definitely more confident than the people with the first attitude. Wow! Good for them. Unfortunately, they are not just blind, they are like inmates in a lunatic asylum rubbing dust into their eyes in the mistaken belief that it will improve their eyesight.

Then you get a third attitude:
>I myself have been guaranteed front-row seats in heaven after I die by the Roman Catholic Church. Pope Francis (pbuh) has saved me. I can 100% guarantee you that all this talk of “mysticism”, “hermeticism,” “occultism”, and whatnot is just heresy that will land you front-row seats in HECK after you die. Do not be an idiot. Stop reading the Corpus Hermeticum. Become a Roman Catholic

These people have a bit of a leg up on the others since they at least acknowledge higher spiritual realities, but they fell for the meme of thinking that they can cure their existential torment and end the search for spiritual truth by having “faith” in some institution, no matter how many outdated dogmas it has and how far it may be from Christ’s original teachings.

And then you get another type of person who goes:
>Ahhhhh, mysticism, EXCELLENT. ... yes, the occult, wow!! I am truly enlightened as I smoke meth here in my parents’ basement and work night shifts as a security guard to give me time to read the works of Aleister Crowley (pbuh) and even Rene Guenon (Alhamdulillah) and other such luminaries. I may be descending into actual schizophrenia but alhamdulilah my dear brothers and sisters in Christ ... it is worth it. And I have a self published book on Amazon about the western occult tradition, too!

Does anything even need to be said about these type of people?

Then finally ... some people have yet another attitude towards mysticism. These are the highest people. These are the salt of the earth. These are the true authorities on Hermeticism, Taoism, Sufism, Shinto, and every other mumbo jumbo tradition you can think of. They cannot be found easily and will not give up their secrets easily.

>>14883432
Why are all the esoteric charts so awful?

Literally the endpoint of philosophy.

>>14883432
Better:
Epic of Gilgamesh
Four Vedas
Orphic Poems
Homer
Loeb's works on ancient Greek poetry.
Plato Complete Works
Plotinus Enneads
The Way of Hermes
Asclepius: A Secret Discourse of Hermes Trismegistus
Upanishads
Iamblichus The Mysteries
Aristotle Metaphysics with Syrianus Commentary
Olympiodorus: Life of Plato and On Plato First Alcibiades
Damascius Commentary on the Phaedo
Proclus Commentary on the Timaeus
Damascius Lectures on the Philebus
Wisdom Books of the Bible (Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Book of Wisdom, Sirach.)
Willis Barnstone - The Other Bible
Preparatorio Evangelica
Gregory of Nyssa Life of Moses
Pseudo-Dionysius Complete Works
Maximus the Confessor
Eriugena
Orpheus and the Roots of Platonism
The Golden Chain
Philosophy as A Rite of Rebirth

Everything else after Eriugena is derivative of the others and unnecessary, and you'll know what to read anyway.

>>14886249
After Eriugena on the history of thought that is. Not the three books.

>>14886002
>some people have yet another attitude towards mysticism
Which is what?
Not OP, but my interest for mysticism, esotericism, or spirituality in general just stems from a desire to learn and understand.

It's literally a religion made up by LARPers.

>>14886469
Life is a war between larpers though

>>14883432
>Plotinus and Gnostic shit belong under the same umbrella-chart
also
>Terence McKenna
ngmi

Can any of you fags redpill me on concsiously induced out-of-body experiences? Most people talking about it on the internet are of the 'chakra-cleansing' type, but the experience seems interesting beyond that sort of hippy-projection.

>>14886469
no

>>14886249
>>14883432
>>14884358
That's a lotta reading for some small time religion that 99% of population doesn't know about. No wonder Islam and Christianity are more popular.

>>14887956
are u insinuating that esoteric practices should be popular and accessible? sounds like u need to let professor griff talk to u about the kybalion m8

>>14883423
Read Hanegraaff's "Western esotericism: a guide for the perplexed"

Listen to the modern hermeticist on youtube.

Hermeticism is a mix of history, philosophy and religion.

>>14884358
Stop shilling your /x/ babble here please

>>14885914
Youll be guided if you're interested.
For a starter this is a good place. >>14888025

>>14887165
Quick way: Try shrooms
Legit way: Through meditation and keeping account of your thoughts and emotions.

Once you understand that we live in a perceptive world you'll learn by yourself that you could have out of body experiences even if you're a waggie worker.

>>14883423
Ego stroking horseshit.
Just humble yourself and repent.

>>14887063
Based

>>14888063
hermeticism is literally what humbles people when they are too embedded in their personal fantasies. It just shows you how to be flexible around it (because religion/subjectivity is a part of life, but must be dealt w/ moderately)

>>14888063
Typical ignorant Christian, demonizing the roots of Christianity.

>>14885978
What is it that you think does not fit ?

>>14888189
Care to explain these view?

>>14888051
>shrooms
This answer may be subjective to you or the result of doing a very high dosage. I’ve done up to an eighth of very strong shrooms at a time (not the craziest dose but pretty strong for most people) and never had an OBE from it. Now high doses of DXM and other dissociative anesthetics like ketamine, that’s a different question completely ...

>>14883423

hermeticism is essentially a completely correct outline of dualistic thinking. it is necessary to learn about it to progress spiritually, even if you're a monist

>>14883432
This has horrible ordering and also has some garbage books.

Where is Evola? Where is Schertel?

>>14889271
Check: >>14888433

>>14885914
Did you come from a certain background that pushed you in that direction or just coincidence?
Both, but whatever you do START WITH JUNG! He will help you innumerably. Even if you just read up on him online, he will give you the necessary psychological valuing system even if you do not believe in God or such you can find and experience the truth. It's difficult to understand at first, but you will in time. For sake of sending you on your journey, the structure of the king can and does influence the philosopher as the philosopher does the other when he is king, and that is, the eternal definition/ideal of the King as it is of the Philosopher- Read Plato. Tap into the implicit human framework, read Schopenhauer as well for this. Also the presocratics and Aristotle. Spend a year reading all of these figures.

As long as you understand the essential nature of hierarchy, eternally expressed in the tripartite soul and ordering/nature of man of Plato. Just remember that hierarchy always exists and that implicit value or rather objective essential always remains, but that that does not mean the particular superficial ordering is always the same for every context or situation, you must intuitively look deeper and find a conscious apprehension.

Look upwards to a finch in the sky, and find a deeper connection to the ground, the base of the world as Heidegger and many others have put it. Give yourself up to the fact that there is a higher, and through that you come to a deeper (connection to;) state of being, you do so because you *rationally* do so because you know that there is a higher and a deeper, and so you rationally choose to go into the irrational as a respective element of life. Height and Depth, which of course developed from our perception of the land and the sky and trees and such. Connect into that.

I would also recommend reading Carlyle for this. Result into a creative relation to your environment as greatly as possible, for that is the "great man" you are discovering. Religion is the centre of this, the occult is merely an extrapolation of a certain religious core and metaphysical truth of the age, or zeitgeist, and the occult or esoteric as a sort of secondary "founding" and unique extension of this, it as I repeat again, covering certain experiences and truths it feels must be espoused and most often this has a great value, just remember however the religious (image) core is the centre and the more important. So Christ Crucifixed. That sacred image. Truth renews itself through every age. You will need to cultivate all areas of your life, to succeed in the point of the occult in rounding together the areas of man but is not the centre or end purpose itself, in my experience.

Just don't bother with Kabbalah except to maybe fill in some details for Western mysticism like the value of nothing or such, primarily because Kabbalah has no religious centre, it is psychological fantasy with no sacred purpose. It is mundane and material.

>>14889377

>>14885914
>>14889378
That's another thing, it is dangerous. The religious core saves you from this, so the first thing you should read right now is Carlyle's essay on Heroes. Just do it right now. There are genuine corrupting forces, whether you want to say they are psychological or exterior-spiritual does not matter. They are there and have this effect. The greatest danger can be self-absorption, or rather over egoism. Over valuing, sometimes even a lack of compassion and moral feeling for others. There is grave danger in these things, and all the more so because you have no collective spirit behind you, you have only your own individual not only himself facing the anti-Christ(if you go that far), but the entire world posses that agency now in your face. You must become the great man even if only as much as you can, and thank Christ for that enough' of strength. Your body may fail out, but even when your mind gets to the very end of its ability, you always have more willing, more intellect, more spirit. When facing these demons, which do personify both literally and metaphorically. Just when you are on the edge, you can go on, you can always continue or rest. Always, it is only the body that fails. Mans strength is infinite if he can persist after each punch.

Even when Christ seems like only a dual thing, not the almighty, or whatever true-core, you must have faith to get through it, even if you must first convince yourself you must not.

There will be trials, and you will face them. Have faith anon, for strength comes after.

>>14889316
Thanks mate.

>>14887165
Robert Monroe, the Monroe Institute, and Luis Minero.
There are your leads. Enjoy.

>>14889236
Two people can talk about the same idea with a different arrangement of words, synonyms, or and aesthetic and how u hammer that idea in depends on the person you're talking to. This is why no person can ever deliver truth in its purest form. You can deliver truth with the fanciest, most academic words. But no matter the core of it, you could never convince normal folk with it when you're using dense language. Dumbing down stuff is useful in this case, but even that has its faults.

This is one of the things Hermeticism teaches you, is to be able to understand and analyze tautologies and to use them to your advantage in rhetoric.

Plato was a hypocrite when he wrote fiction to shit on fiction.

>>14883436
jung is not a bad place to start

>>14883423
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzjrl24aHiQ&t=9273s
thank me later

Can someone redpill me on Hermes Trimegistus ? I think he's hinted at in both the Bible and Quran and I found that really weird.

>>14890007
>he's hinted at in both the Bible and Quran
care to share?

>>14890030
The Sabians are supposedly worshippers of Hermes, mentionned in the Quran alongside the Christians and Jews. I think he's also related to Enoch.

But he's never explicitely mentionned either, I'm pretty sure it's just schizos making shit up.

>>14890007
Hermes Trismegistus is not a person, is a line of thouhgt. Is a group of knowledge which goes from generation to generation.
If you want to have a grasp of this knowledge for a begginer, you should read the kyballion (yeah I know its more pop occult but is a decent panflet of the philosophy)

>>14890327
>the kyballion
thanks anon, i'm really enjoying it right now. the corpus hermetica isn't a tough read but its very abstract as any sacred text. any other literature you would recommend that explains it well or looks at it from another lens?

>>14888993
None of it, it is all lies, the science, history, religion. That is my website I put all the answers there for the seekers to find

>>14883423
There are certain requirements that need to be met before you can even begin to make sense of esoteric knowledge.

>>14883527
Like Guenon?

>>14891651>>14889542
>>14889377
>>14887997
>>14884358

like being braindead. esotericism is jsut speculation by non-scholars autists who cannot stop their mental proliferation, so they try to pass theirs as higher knowledge.

>>14883423
Read Bruno. (pbuh)

>>14890712
The most hermetic texts are the Timeus/Phaedrus from Plato then the texts of Plotinus give the esoteric twist.
If you re not into the philosophist texts, search for the Golden Verses of Phytagoras which is a good wrap about this phylosophy and is way of thinking.
Personally the most help I got was from these threads, one anon reccomend me "the modern hermeticist" channel on Youtube by Dan Atrell, an academic scholar of the subject. He's probably also a /lit/fag.

>>14888063
The Three Vows are at the center of Hermeticism.

>>14883432
This is garbage. Treating the picatrix as "esoteric literature" is such cringe.

>>14887956
Asclepius: A Secret Discourse of Hermes Trismegistus
Upanishads
Iamblichus - De Mysteriis
these three cover the entirety of actual Hermeticism as a sub-field of "Platonism" (as in the name of the tradition first found archeologically in the Egyptian Pyramid texts)

>>14892985
oh whoops
>The Way of Hermes
>Asclepius: A Secret Discourse of Hermes Trismegistus
>Iamblichus - De Mysteriis
these three

>>14892985
>Poo books
>Hermeticism

>>14886249
>Everything else after Eriugena is derivative of the others and unnecessary
Does that include Nicholas of Cusa or not?

>>14886002
good post

i’m just a dude who wants to know why things are the way they are though

>>14891873
too complex for brainlet to grasp so u resort to ad hom

>>14883423
It is hardcore metaphysics. How could it be mumbo jumbo? If you are already a skeptic, don't bother.

>>14886249
based

>>14889409
Christ is not god.

>>14894244
The Divine logos made flesh

>>14889378
>JUNG
>somehow does not fall under "has no religious centre, it is psychological fantasy with no sacred purpose. It is mundane and material"
Is this bait?

>>14894244
You might wanna reread the Gospel of John

Bump