/lit/ - Literature

>>14879482
If your woman disagrees with you on any topic it is because you aren't fucking as hard as she deserves to be fucked.

>>14879502
im pretty sure women go insane if they're not having babbies by like age 20

>>14879482
Sadly if she's that eager to fit herself into a definite psychological model and won't hear your criticisms, it's unlikely that she'll have the openness or mental capacity to read any thoroughgoing critiques of psychiatry/psychometry. I'd probably take the dickhead route of jokingly pointing out her behaviours that don't align with her MBTI type, and jokingly recommend ways she can change her behaviour to make her a better fit. This will work especially well if she has some behaviours that she is known for that don't fit the type.

>>14879519
Might try this. The main problem is that this already is happening to a degree and she wants me to help her find out whether she's really an infp or isfp or whatever the fuck, but she has some bullshit letters in common on all of them I could point out she doesn't fit. Like caring so much what other people can classify her as isnt a very "introverted" trait. Although this also seems like the sort of thing that could piss her off and be taken as nagging at her.

Who else /INFP/ here?

>>14879548
Tell her about how categorization works in these instances.
throughout history, people noticed a thing and named the thing so they could more easily communicate about the thing. They saw a dog, and came up with the label "dog." Over time, more and more people came up with more specific names, to better organize things and make them easier to communicate and understand. "Yellow Dog" became "Golden Retriever" became "Canis Lupus Familiaris". None of this naming has changed the nature of the thing named: the dog is still the same dog. It just helps different kinds of people talk about it in different kinds of contexts.
When the doctor/patient divide was more apparent, and people less obsessed and neurotic, this same thing applied in psychiatry/psychology. A person came in "feeling blue" and "procrastinating", the doctor diagnosed them as "depressed, with OCDP", and gave them some tips (or meds) to help overcome their issues. Maybe even therapy. But such diagnoses again didn't change the nature of the individual who received them. The individual didn't run to tumblr to find out what depressed people with OCPD do or should act like. They kept being living on as an individual, albiet suffering from a diverse set of issues psychiatrists referred to as depression and OCPD.
The problem with your girl is a problem that's widespread with our scientistic, intellectualizing culture. We have too much internet access, too much free time, and are too obsessed with putting everything into little semi-"scientific", clearly reductive, boxes. She has taken a label used to communicate in shorthand between specialists, and has turned it into a marker of identity, thus allowing the label to change her nature. In the ancient world there were sodomites and men who lay with other men. They weren't specifically called anything. Later, these were called homosexuals. Still later, homosexuality came to be a defined identity marker, with certain stereotypical indicators that went along with it. Dudes went from just fucking dudes, to fucking dudes and being called homosexuals among professionals, to identifying as homosexuals and living their lives in accordance with this "identity". The label went from nonexistent to descriptive to compulsive: with that latter move, they allow their personalities to be structured by that label and its insinuations and implications.
Sit your girl down, explain this to her, and ask her: "You don't want to be just like the faggots, do you?"
It's the best shot you've got, anon.

>>14879482
Can your girlfriend listen to reason and logic?

>>14879482
MBTI is not pseudoscience like astrology. It is simply a descriptive classification scheme for personality attributes.

>>14879645
If she can't...

>>14879656
It's a pseudo science.

>>14879660
it's not

>>14879667
what science is it based on?

>>14879660
It's just a compressed summary of personality attributes.

>>14879681
which isn't based in any sort of science.

You can't measure a person's personality no more than you can measure their soul or their secrets. You can guess and you can speculate, and you can make up fancy terminology so your speculations sound scientific, but at the end of the day you're not measuring anything tangible.

Now if you could determine personality via a CT scan then maybe we would be talking about real science, but you can't.

>>14879482
beat her

>>14879855
You're still not getting it. If I give out a survey asking whether you prefer Tolstoy vs Dostoevsky, Plato vs Aristotle, Joyce vs Proust, etc., and then summarize your preferences in a code like "TAJH" or some shit, that's not pseudoscience. It's just a concise summary of preferences. It's only when I use that summary to predict your behavior outside of the realm of literature preferences that the issue of science vs pseudo-science arises.

>>14879597
me fren

>>14879884
you're talking about an opinion based survey. There is no psychologist or physician who diagnoses patients with surveys.

What you're describing as pseudo science is the MBTI. Oh you like apples? Then you must be introverted.

>>14879931
No.

>>14879667
It is. All psychology- if it even could be called that which I'm doubtful of- is pseudoscience.
Not that I have that much faith in science- love that term- any way.
>>14879884
>It's just a concise summary of preferences.
i.e. a pointless waste of time and an ego stroke.

Fact is that powerful institutions want us to be minimizing our identities into convenient little boxes so we can be more easily targeted with advertisements and made to conform.
>>14879482
Just show her this >>14879645 and tell her its what you honestly feel about MBTI and she can either accept that or hit the road.

Do you want to have children with this girl? then why are you wasting your time?

>>14879482
why take it so seriously? why not just let her have fun with it? if you take a more lighthearted approach it can be fun to box and line things. i dont think anyone is claiming it to be science, same with religion, many people can take good things out of it with an open mind

>>14879984
>i.e. a pointless waste of time and an ego stroke.
I.e., the whole purpose of this internet forum

>Fact is that powerful institutions want us to be minimizing our identities into convenient little boxes so we can be more easily targeted with advertisements and made to conform.
In other words, MBTI has predictive power and thus is not pseudoscience.

>>14879645
That graphic is idiotic.

>>14879482
>The source material by way of Carl Jung is more interesting. He wanted to be an archeologist -- if you want to explore your mbti 'type' you'll have to dig into yourself like an archaeologist too. [hermetics: ancient, medieval, renaissance, contempoary] -- what timeframe sounds most interesting to you?
Treat this just like you described it -- horoscope bullshit -- and you've furnished an endless rabbithole. The more awareness of archetypes/narratives, the more synchronicity cards you have in your deck made available to you ~

>>14879992
>why take it so seriously? why not just let her have fun with it?
Because she's not just having fun with it, but is getting upset that she doesn't fit into a nonexistent box, hence why I want to convince her those boxes don't exist. Which is really the problem with these sort of made up systems, you feel like there's something wrong with you if it doesn't apply to you, when obviously the problem is that the system doesn't apply to reality. But it's hard to get that across to someone who's already taken the koolaid, it's almost like a cult. I like her otherwise and don't want our relationship to end because of neo-Jungian pseudopsychology.

>>14879482
Nobody cares about your retarded ugly girlfriend, fuck you atheist.

>>14880294
After having followed this thread with mild concern and mild interest, I have have come to the conclusion that you should post your gf's tits. No one here will be able to make an even remotely adequate assessment of what's to be done with her until then.

>>14879482
Listen retard, you're not going to convince her with "muh fax" and "muh lodge ick" that MBTI is retarded, that's not how girls work. If you have something she really likes, ie good dick, lots of money, hilarious personality, whatever she's into, she'd listen to you that it's bullshit with minimum argument necessary. That doesn't seem to be working so you just have to roll with it. What you should do is pick on of those MBTI things that she thinks she is and tell her "you're definitely this one" and then groom her with it. Pick one that she thinks she might be that also sounds like it describes how you want her to be and then convince her that she's actually that way. If you do it right you'll be able to feed her the descriptions of the MBTI type and she'll slowly conform to it.

>>14879482
>MBTI
so many anon are into this male-oriented horoscope personality quiz shit too, anon. even on tinder i see a lot of guys putting it up there. it's easy because i know who to left. (yes tinder not grinder.) trash humans need labels to cling to some kind of personality, they have none of their own. without their precious labels they would have no identity.

it comes when a man doesn't know himself. sad.

>>14880334
based groomer

>>14879482
Just remind her that the big 5 personality test is more reputable in the psychological community and that MBTI is based on pseudo-Jungian, astrology. 16 traits are far too many to be validly testable.

>>14879636
great post

Introduce her to superior Big Five or HEXACO model of personality. There.

>>14879636
If you found a more concise way of saying this, I think this could work.

>>14879645
>>14880009
The most telling assumption is that psychology is anything but a fruitless endeavor. The Jungian pseudophilosophy is perhaps the most worthwhile part of psychology, but clinical is mostly ineffectual. Ironically, shaky uncertain meme things, like the famed collective psychology experiments of smoke in the room, or other things psychologists label as unscientific, are far more interesting and applicable than the unreplicated shit they publish in academic journals.

>>14880698
>>14879482
Tell her she is a fucking brainlet for considering MBTI and present her the vastly superior Socionics

>>14879514
case study mothman

>>14879597
literal horoscope pseudo science tier

>>14879645
the underlying assumption with this argument is that the reader knows that astrology is bullshit, which unfortunately isn't true for women

>>14879482
What does /lit/ think about these guys?
https://www.objectivepersonality.com/

>Patterns Emerging
>The more people we objectively type and log in our docs, the more patterns start to emerge. We need to objectively type thousands of more people before we have anything conclusive. Here are just 4 examples of interesting patterns we see emerging so far:
>1) Doppelgängers. The more people we have logged inside any given type number, the more people start to look alike. Many factors need to be considered such as race, age, weight, etc. Our objective system does not use any type of “face reading” or anything like that. All we noticed is that as we logged more people, we started to notice that people of the same type number often resemble each other.
>2) Hair. Certain hair colors will “cluster” around certain type numbers. For example red hair shows up over 70% of the time in males in type number 77D. Black hair and black eyebrows are the dominant hair color for the females of type number 29. Blonde is very prevalent in the females of type number 64. Brown hair is also far more prevalent in several different type numbers and not others. Male pattern balding is also a trait that tends to cluster around certain types and skip others.
>3) Disorders. One of the most clear and easy to track and predictable traits in our personality spectrum is disorders. For example “anxiety” and “depression” aggressively cluster around certain types. The people that claim to “see ghosts” also cluster around certain types. Physical disorders and diseases are also starting to cluster around certain types, just to name a few examples.
>4) Gender. The most distinct, and very unexpected pattern we are seeing at scale is sexual identity/preference. The majority of the LGBT males are on the left end of our spectrum, and the majority of the LGBT females are on the right end of our spectrum. For example, 70% of males in number 25 are gay, bi, or trans. In type number 77, over 70% of the females are gay, bi, and trans. The males of the same number (77) are all straight. We are seeing this play out throughout the personality spectrum in a very consistent way.

What's wrong with clustering people and making predictions based on the classification? Comparison with astrology just shows your own stupidity, because astrological classification is based on only one feature which predictive power is subtle at best.

>>14879482
It's weird, I concede that there is no scientific basis for MBTI. That being said, I can usually reliably guess a persons "type" using the MBTI about 70% of the time, and then use that data to manipulate people. For example, you seem to favor empirical facts and are very blunt about it. This would put you as a 'Te' (extraverted thinker). Now the question is whether you are an introvert or extrovert. The fact you use a cat gif would imply that you're an introvert, but that's mostly speculation, especially since you seem to 'lead' with the Te function. So the question is whether you are an intuitive or a sensor. Since you are very closed off to something that is 'off kilter' like MBTI, I'm going to assume that you are the type of person that trusts reality over things like 'instinct' or 'intuition'. If that is the case. I would peg you as either an ISTJ, the logician, or the ESTJ, the executive. Whether MBTI is valid or not is irrelevant; I now have a sufficient profile of your personality to manipulate you to my own ends.

>>14880792
Socionics MBTI's autistic cousin that wears adult diapers

>>14881015
That hardly has anything to do with MBTI. You're using their labels in your own theory.

>>14879482
Zodiac shit is better than this trash.

Get her to read Jordan B. Peterson and some Neil deGrasse Tyson you could then throw in some Sam Harris or really most books by neuroscientists, books by magicians are useful too.
Warning your gf will probably end up a vegan, on some other fringe diet or psychiatric medication but at least she won't believe in MBTI.

>>14880334
>>14880470
Bismillah!

>>14880009
nice counter argument

>>14881053
Introverted and extraverted functions are a big part of MBTI. Know your terminology noob

>>14880797

>>14881774
Wow, introversion and extraversion! I've never seen a personality test include those before.

>>14881015
Great cold reading

>>14879656
Then look up the big 5.

>>14879645
>the biggest factor is that psychologists don't use the MBTI

Really? THAT'S the biggest factor?

>>14879597
me too
just to suffer

>i dont believe in astrology

Thats your loss, i bet you are a libra. Capricorn masterace reporting in.

also:

>my girlfriend has an opinion

No she dosent, she just wants attention and love wich you are witholding from her you selfish prick.

>>14879482
Ditch her

>>14879636
TLDR: Don't let the labels define who you are.

>>14879645
The graph should mention that Jung based his research on astrology, it might explain why the zodiac system and the MBTI are so similar.

>>14879597
Happy /INFP/

>>14879482
Rare /INFJ/ here, anyone else??

>>14879482
1: Does it get you sex?

>>14879645
whats a ENTP naruto character

All of you faggots are dumb and don't even have the slightest idea about MBTI, why don't you actually read a book on it instead of resorting to your """"logical"""" clearly Te arguments, you fucking reddit-tier skeptics. Fuck, i hate every one of you faggots. FUck, FUCK

>MBTI = horoscopes
why is this comparison always made? They're not even close to similar

>>14879984
t. elitist physicist

>>14879645
But there's no comparison, the questions used in MBTI are specifically designed to assess what categories you fall into using generalised causal links.

There's no link between what the planets are doing and whether you're an optimist. If I ask you a bunch of questions about your life and all the answers are positive it's pretty reasonable to assert that you're an optimist.

Is this person extroverted? Well on the one hand they answered Strongly Agree on all the questions we put in to indicate whether or not they were extroverted, on the other hand Mars is in the third house, god I just can't call it either way.

If you had said MBTI is bullshit because it's all based on each person's subjective vision of themselves then sure, you'd have a point, but you dirty stupid niggers never make that point, you always just make the Zodiac comparison because you're retards.

>>14882945
What is with all this libra hate lately?

>>14887781
Libras SUCK