/lit/ - Literature

Even On the Genealogy of Morality ?
I heard it was pretty easy to read and sums up lot of stuff

>>14875009
It is written a lot more conventionally than his other stuff. But he spends much of that text attacking plato and augustine so to read it without reading them is like listening to only half a conversation.

>>14875009
Hahahahaha, checkmate

COPE OP COPE

>>14874854
>It is really quite doubtful the Nietzsche read much Hegel, and he certainly did not read him carefully or sympathetically. Most of what he says about Hegel seems to come from Schopenhauer's prejudices and via the interpretations of the "right" or conservative Hegelians, who had taken over Hegel's legacy after the great dialectician's death in 1831.

>>14874854
What Plato should I read?

>>14875009
Especially that one. People who read it without having the background tend to be who he was complaining about when he wrote:

>The worstreadersare those who behave like plundering troops: they take away a few things they can use, dirty and confound the remainder, and revile the whole.

>>14875031
you are quite correct. and Nietzsche read Stirner too.

>>14874854
I really think this common sentiment is often overstated on here. True, for someone who is completely ignorant of the history of philosophy, lacking the most basic of knowledge of the major schools of thought and currents of ideas, Nietzsche is indeed an awful place to start, for a substantial part of his work is in destroying much of those popular philosophies. So many times I've gone to someone's house to find the only real philosophical works on their bookshelf to be TSZ and The Antichrist/BGE; the books virtually untouched and their owner completely devoid of any understanding.

Now with that said, on the other hand many people have actually encountered and given thought to a considerable amount of major philosophical ideas; most likely in a rudimentary and shallow way, but often sufficient enough to passably recognize the fundamental ideas Nietzsche is critiquing because with how influential and ubiquitous those very ideas have been throughout the history of politics, culture, the arts, etc. extended into the present day, they can be discovered in a endless variety of ways that doesn't require reading primary texts, or even academic secondary ones. Certainly not to the point of being able to outline the more substantive arguments within the works or provide any kind of useful analysis, but luckily for them Nietzsche commonly summarizes the fundamentals of the what he's about to attack, and often even provides the reader with some of the more intricate aspects as well.

In short, my point is yes, one should be familiar with the ideas and beliefs of the presocratics, Plato, Kant, the Abrahamic religions, et al. before engaging with Nietzsche, but the minimum level of familiarity required can be obtained through a multitude of methods and sources outside of actually reading large parts of the Critique of Pure Reason or The World as Will and Representation.

>>14874854
As long as the edition is good, it will have annotations as to what he is responding etc. No need to waste time when scholars have already done the work.

>>14874854
Nietzsche is easily readable as a starting philosophy, infact if you read Twilight of Idols first(as you should), the rest of his stuff is ridiculously easy, a whole fat cope desu, waste of time

OP as usual is a pendantic faggot. choke on nigger dicks and die.

anons- just read Leo Strauss lecture notes on BGE and Zarathustra. http://leostrausstranscripts.uchicago.edu/navigate/15/table-of-contents/

pedantic*

>>14875232
This was literally Hitler (he writes in Mein Kampf about how good readers take away what is needed and forget the rest)

not making a thread for this
What does the whole "create your own meaning" thing mean?
Is that like a passive thing where you self actualize/realize what you value or is it more active and literal?

>>14875031
He explicitly calls BoT Hegelian and at one point called Hegel and Schopenhauer long lost brothers or something to that effect.

Reading Zarathustra as an edgy 15 year old with no philo background changed my life

>>14875526
And?

read nietzsche when i was 13
didnt understand him then and still dont

>>14875526
Why was Nietzsche so fucking dumb bros

>>14874854
>Nietzsche is not an entry-level philosopher
He literally is, half of his shit is plagiarism of entry level guys.

>>14875029
>>14875369
>>14875535
>>14875791
Look at all these brainlets. You did not understand Nietzsche. You did not appreciate him. He did not unfold his full glory to you.

Neetcha fucking sucked bro

Nietzsche could have expressed himself in a simple and straightforward manner. Same goes for most philosophers who delight in self-serving obfuscation

>>14875822
Shut up pussy

>>14875835
but nitch is the true heir to kant. Critical philosophy is just a rapturous nihilism behind a curtain of completely untenable christian prejudices.

>>14874854
thanks for the reminder, anon. i nearly forgot

>>14874854
Nietzsche is a depressed schizoid who writes to cope with his loneliness and alienation. You should only read him if you think being a self aggrandizing loner is somehow desirable.

>>14874854
>philosophy in twenty-twenty
Grow up.

>>14874854
OP is correct.
Cope brainlets, and start reading sooner rather than later.

Start with NEETche to see perfection then wade back there from antiquity.

>>14874854
Nietzsche talks about what it's like to live as a modern man, therefore he can be understood immediately by people living today.
In fact it isn't necessary to read anything at all to understand him. You're an absurd person.

>>14876434
First off, he’s a schizoid projecting his inadequacies on mankind as a whole, when in fact only other outsiders with strong confirmation bias will identify with his ravings.

>>14876434
Christians, Muslims, SJWs, and resentful anti-capitalists in general living today can't understand him no matter how much they read because they're permanently brain damaged freaks.

>>14876513
Muslims are the only ones who understand Nietzsche.

>>14876524
Yes, lazy retarded goatfuckers who deeply resent the technocapitalist West are the only ones who understand Nietzsche.

>>14875526
>called Hegel and Schopenhauer long lost brothers
>>14875651
Fk u this take is based

>>14874854
I've read most of Plato, Aristotle and am working through Augustine. I will eventually reach the latter three. I've spent the past six years reading philosophy in chronological order and I do not regret one moment of it. It's genuinely fun and I see no reason to rush to Nietzsche until I have the requisite background to grapple with him. Thank you for the reminder.

>>14874854
Also, if you are unfamiliar with Wagner you will literally not understand 90% of the things he is saying. Most philosophy students do not understand art, particularly music, that's why we get all these retarded interpretations of Neetch.

Stirner radicalized Kant and trolled the Hegelian faggots. Nietzsche is a Stirnerite.
OP is a reddit roastie on the rag. I hope you get cervical cancer you bitch.

>>14876524
You mean Jews.

>>14874854
>Nietzsche is not an entry-level philosopher
Yeah. He's not a philosopher to begin with.

>>14874854
Very true. Ive only read schopenhauer. Ive tried to read kant and nietzsche but I am too much of a brainlet. should I read secondary material?

(I also read a little plato but i cant get over the dialouge style. )

>>14877444
This is the real reason why Nietzsche gets a lot of shit lately.

>>14876513
So you are saying the emo kid in the back of the room in 2005 was the only guy who understood Neitzche?

I disagree. I say they are the ones who most often let their biases take them away with it. It’s the Athiest/agnostic that genuinely tries to understand the world first before rejecting it, not the rebel who rejects it of the cuff and reviles it before even meaningfully trying to understand it.

>>14874854
nietzsche didnt even read hegel

>>14874854
i've read all of those except the bible and i say you're full of shit

>>14878769
>So you are saying the emo kid in the back of the room in 2005 was the only guy who understood Neitzche?
>thinking in caricatures like this

We're talking about adults here, not kids.

>>14878769
>So you are saying the emo kid in the back of the room in 2005 was the only guy who understood Neitzche?

kek

What is the best way to read Kant's critique of pure reason? I have started it many times but never get far before I either get distracted with something else or just fall off of it

>>14876737
best take in this thread

>>14878867
seconding this. I tried to read it after schopenhauer, but was quickly proven to be a mouthbreathing brainlet, and literally couldnt understand a word. Is there any hope for me?