/lit/ - Literature

Based Catholic Joyce.

>>14867858
He renounced Catholicism and went on to write about abortions

If I am sent to hell I will face it with the same mindset I have faced every single day of my life with: low expectations, disappointed regardless

>>14867826
I thought Joyce hated Catholicism?

>Ex-Catholic depicts the ways Catholics scare people, specifically kids, into Catholicism
>Woah wtf I'm Catholic now

>>14867911
He did.
>>14867915
It terrifies me to the point where I don't want to take the risk.

>>14867921
When I read the passage I only hear the words of a man, not those of a divine edict.

>>14867826
Interesting. I love that passage for aesthetic reasons, it’s my favourite part of the book, but as a Christian I don’t believe in hell, certainly not in eternal punishment in the literal sense. Do you happen to have autism/OCD that worsened this fear?

>>14867911
>>14867921
According to wikipedia he had a complicated relationship with his religion, with highs and lows throughout his life, like a lot of people do. Beyond that, it claims that Catholic philosophy always influenced his thought-process.
why are you trying to pigeonhole him as an explicit anti-catholic, these things being considered?

>>14867921
Ah shut up pussy. If this works then literally anyone can force you to do anything if you believe you'll go to hell otherwise.
>>14867953
How the fuck are you a Christian but you don't believe in hell? Jesus described it very vividly and talked about it more than anything else.

>>14867826
go to church then. me, i've never read joyce never will. not into niggerlit they shove down our throat for diversity points.

the bit about the bird taking one grain of sand every thousand years and putting in a pile and when that pile gets to the size of the largest mountain it's still nowhere near eternity and you will suffer the entire time each day worse than the last

yeah bro that fucked me up too but you realise the motive behind the religion is fear so they purposely make it hell sound as bad as you can imagine

OP alot of possessed people itt trying to get you yo dismiss it, don’t listen to them. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom. If you are worried look for ways to safeguard your soul, you can easily find them online.

>>14868009
Internet Christians write the same way as internet schizophrenics.

>>14868009
There are a lot of possessed people itt. Possessed by ideology.

>>14867964
>How the fuck are you a Christian but you don't believe in hell? Jesus described it very vividly and talked about it more than anything else.
If it were that obvious, then every Christian would believe in hell. The issue is obviously far more complex than that, differing based on how we interpret Scripture, how far Scripture should solely determine our beliefs, etc. You can definitely be a Christian who doesn’t believe in hell without diluting your faith.
It is also obviously not true that Jesus talked about hell more than anything else.

>>14867956
bro you read his wikipedia page?

>>14867826
If you knew anything about the Bible you'd know there's nothing in the Bible to corroborate any of these statements.

>>14868001
Jesus, that's amazing! How much does it take for the book to stop being the rambling it is in the beginning? Or at least to get used to the writing style.

>>14868050
>sola scriptura
Cringe. Tradition trumps scripture.

>>14868052
>rambling in the beginning
Lmao get filtered. What's the matter? Can't parse the thoughts of a child with that big brain of yours?

>>14868055
>Tradition trumps scripture.
how

>>14868042
Confirmed for having not read The Bible. Open the fucking thing to any page of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John and it'll be Jesus going on a schizo rant about how bad everyone's gonna burn.

>>14868031
Internet schizophrenics are the most intelligent people on the planet

>>14868092
I think you're confused about Jesus saying "This is how you get into heaven." Nothing about burning in a fiery pit.

>>14867826
>Every sense of the flesh is tortured and every faculty of the soul therewith: the eyes with impenetrable utter darkness, the nose with noisome odours, the ears with yells and howls and execrations, the taste with foul matter, leprous corruption, nameless suffocating filth,

He's is probably describing that one time he tried to penetrate Nora's asshole with his entire face while she was defecating. Because that is what Joyce did, and who he was.

>>14868079
Oh, so it's a projection of the thoughts of a child. So as the story progresses the writing pattern changes, as it happens in the life of a person?

>>14868052
How is that amazing? It's just a list of the senses. He doesn't even describe how the soul is tortured, he just mentions its presence in the material hell as a cop out.

>>14868105
Yes

>>14868105
Yes. Welcome to modernism.

>>14868107
The whole chapter is dedicated to how the soul gets tortured you plebe, read the book before you make inane comments. The linked passage only describes the material conditions in hell.

>>14868107
The way he puts it is amazing. I'm presuming the bird metaphor is from the book, because I found that very compelling.

Whenever I miss church, I always read Chapter 3 of Portrait.

>>14868099
I'm honestly shocked at either your willful ignorance or shameless deception.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-uncomfortable-subject-jesus-addressed-more-than-anyone-else/

To me hell is beingg around Jews and POC. But that is Christian multi culti “heaven”! Meanwhile Christianity says that my white pagan ancestors are in hell. So yeah. Hell sounds based.

>>14868085
Read the Catechism

>>14868117
Again, what is so profound about, "is hot, dark, tastes bad, and smells bad"?

>>14868042
Then why the fuck did Jesus die for our sins? So we could be SAVED. So we could be with our father in HEAVEN and avoid HELL. There is ample discussion of hell in the Bible, maybe this is just ignorance.
You either need to reread the New Testament or adjust that room temperature IQ.

Fucks sake, blatant ignorance and feel good shit like this is why Christianity has degenerated so much in the western world.
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"
Matthew 25:46

>>14868129
Nothing about torture

>>14868129
The dudes either a fucking moron or a paid shill

>>14868092
I have read the Bible.
>>14868099
Also not exactly true. Mark 9:43-48; Matthew 13:40-42, 50 and Matthew 25:41, 46 are some of Jesus’ most definitive statements on hell.

There’s a balance. I’m not saying the Bible doesn’t mention Hell but >>14868092 is just spreading ignorance and being annoying. I wish I could make something of Proverbs 26:4 and 5 so I could answer him properly.

>>14868144
In the previous chapter Stephen has an epiphany relating to sex with whores. The whole purpose of Chapter 3 is undoing this epiphany. After listening to this sermon on Hell which spans a weekend or a week, I forget which, Stephen struggles with the guilt he feels about soliciting prostitutes. At the end of this Chapter, thanks to the language and imagery of the sermon, Stephen has a new epiphany to rededicate his life to Christ with a new vigor. If you read the book you would get it. But you're just some literal who blue checkmark faggot.

>>14867956
bro didn’t your teachers ever tell you not to use Wikipedia as a source

>>14868150
See >>14868174. But the verse you posted is also not definitive about hell. “Eternal punishment”: do we take it to be a punishment like Augustine conceives of a soul feeling pain with the body? Or maybe we could go to Hobbes’ interpretation of a Second Death, the eternal punishment in nevermore experiencing life? Or is it using language to express the pangs of conscience?
Please, if you’re going to be LARPing as a Christian, at least don’t curse. (Psalm 109:17)

>>14867826
>>14868001
>>14868117

I still blows my mind people take christcuckery fearmongering seriously
literally who writes "It was real my mind" fiction inspired by some sandnigger work of fiction, then some godawful donkey stupid bored shithead from the 21st century takes it all seriously
how is humanity this stupid

>>14868216
Punishment is definitive, regardless and irrelevant of third party philosophy. Sounding like it took some mental gymnastics to come to your conclusion.

>>14868250
The works of Thomas Aquinas are far harder to confront than you would like to think.

>>14868335
garbage in, garbage out
you can over-analyze palestinian fairy-tales, it's still the same useless turd that lost any relevance

oh look this high IQ human specimen wasted his years trying to find some order in this mix of stories people took way to seriously, I guess they are legitimized!

>>14867826
>The description of hell in portrait of the artist as a young man has legitimately fucked my head up to the point where I can't think of anything else.
That's basically how Joyce felt. He still managed to reject Catholicism on an intellectual level even if he always had subconscious irrational fears. There's a reason the depiction of Hell takes up so much space in his literary memoir; it was an enormous influence on the development of his psyche.

If you've been raised Catholic in the past you might have to learn to deal with this internalization, I'm not sure you can reason your way out of it. If you only read Joyce and got spooked, you might forget about it before long.

>>14867903
How could you be disappointed by hell?

>>14867826

Didnt read it, but did he satisfyingly establish the concept of eternity? Because THAT is actually the scary part about hell, not getting fucked in the ass by a spiked cock or whatever

>>14868383
>>14868001

>>14867956
Bro did you just paraphrase a website that paraphrases?

>Went a mild Catholic school but never got imprinted with the fear of hell

I just want a pure faith, I think the only way to truly believe is to live in constant fear of hell which is something I don't have, always will i be uninspired by religion and Gods love

>>14868705
Just think about death and what's beyond if you want fear.
If that doesn't strike fear into your heart I don't what will. This is where I'm at a loss when it comes to pure, honest atheists. I don't think anyone, not even suicides can easily face death and say "meh".
If you want pure faith, start seeking. Faith is considered a great gift, not something that you just happen to have. Put in the effort. Start with Pascal's Pensees if you want rational arguments, move to Chesterton, read about converts, check out Brother Lawrence. I'll keep you in my prayers, bro.

>>14867826
Life is hell. Death is redemption.

>>14867826
u need help cause its not that bad i was completely unphased by that paragraph

This is imperfect contrition, OP. Perfect contrition is turning toward God for his goodness and because he is The Good. If you are afflicted with metaphysical questions you should start dedicating your intellectual life, at least, to God, this will help you to attain the real contrition.

>knock knock
>who's there
>Jesus
>What do you want?
>to save you.
>Save me from what?
>From what will happen to you if you don't open.

>>14867881
He renounced Catholicism and embraced Brapperology.

the number of people here surprised that the joyce was catholic (newsflash: he's irish) and that this appears in portrait... it's a hundred pages, just read if for fucks sake.

joyce was capable of lifting some bullshit from centuries of fire & brimstone preaching/writing. wow based af and redpilled. non-catholics btfo'd. fucking retards

>>14869116
>non-catholics btfo'd.
Wow he sure showed us I think Imma convert now

>>14869313
jesus christ. do you know how to read you fuckwit? no wonder even portrait is beyond you.

>>14869337
Cope

>>14867826
got anything to confess about smugging, laddie?

>>14867826
>x author ruined my life!!!
Literally the most pussiest fucking threads. It's even worse when retards like you pick really influential figures that communicated so much more important things. It's not the Joyce you fuck, its your autism.

>>14869313
can someone explain to me that image

>>14867953
As a Christian, I believe you are a heretic anon. Hell is very real, and your "differing opinions," are entirely false teaching.

>very pain very noise very discomfort
>Oh my god /lit/ I'm scared shitless help me

>>14867903

>>14867826
Then you completely missed the point of that passage

Then the warders of hell give him the fivefold binding. That is two hot iron spikes are sent through his two palms, and two other hot spikes are sent through his two feet and the fifth hot iron spike is sent through his chest. On account of this he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings. Yet he does not die, until his demerit finishes. Next the warders of hell conduct him and hammer himOn account of this he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings. Yet he does not die, until his demerit finishes. Next the warders of hell take him upside down and cut him with a knifeOn account of this too he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings. Yet he does not die, until his demerit finishes. Next the warders of hell yoke him to a cart and make him go to and fro on a ground that is flaming and ablaze On account of this too he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings. Yet he does not die, until his demerit finishes. Next the warders of hell make him ascend and descend a rock of burning ambers On account of this he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings. Yet he does not die, until his demerit finishes. Next the warders of hell throw him upside down into a boiling, blazingpot of molten. Therehe is cooked in the molten scum, and he on his own accord dives in comes up and goes across in the molten pot. On account of this too he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings. Yet he does not die, until his demerit finishes. Next the warders of hell throw him to the Great Hell.
The square Great Hell has four gates and is divided in two,
Enclosed by iron walls, is closed with an iron lid.
The floor spreads for seven hundred miles,
And it stands there every day.
A fire springs from the eastern wall of the Great Hell to scorch the western wall. A fire springs from the western wall to scorch the eastern wallA fire springs from the northern wall to scorch the southern wall. A fire springs from the southern wall to scorch the northern wall. A fire springs from the bottom to scorch the top and a fire springs from the top to scorch the bottom. There he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings, yet he does not die until his demerit comes to an end.
Bhikkhus, after the lapse of a very long time, it happens that the eastern door of the Great Hell opens. Then he runs with great speed, in doing so he burns his outer skin, inner skin, flesh, nerves, andeven the bones smoke, even if he pulls himself out, it happens. When he had, had enough of it the door closesThere he experiences sharp piercing unpleasant feelings, yet he does not die until his demerit comes to an end.
http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/Agama/Majjhima/130-devaduta-e.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)
This sounds pretty terrible, why aren't you a Buddhist?

If you think you're going to hell, then you are.

>>14868031
haha, never thought of that but it’s true

>>14868096
doubtful. why on earth would you think that?

>>14869608
It's a catholic tradition sometimes for the pope or priest to wash the feet of believers, since in the Bible there is a scene where Jesus washes the feet of his disciples.

>>14867967
do you realize how dumb you sound?

>do you realize how dumb you sound?

>>14869116
Uh, how tiny is the print and/or how large are the pages for your edition to be one hundred pages long.

>>14867826
>>14868001

>>14870995
wrong. stop riling up the scrupulous.

>>14867967
What are you on about mate

>>14867826
I've read vivid descriptions of death in Greek and Egyptian myths which spooked me at the time but I'm too lazy to reform or change my manner at all.

>>14868144
Why do people like you even read literature?

>>14871728
so i can quote it in everyday conversations

can someone quote the whole hell passage plz

>>14867826
>the nose with noisome odours, the taste with foul matter, leprous corruption, nameless suffocating filth
Surely this would be heaven for a man with Joyce's brap predilection. Or is his definition of bad smells and tastes actually what we would consider nice smells?

>>14871742
I want to rip out your tounge so maybe you'd learn to think for once. You're a snake, you have no passion. You're a cog. No one thinks you're smart for quoting some random author you fucking autist. You're in the emperor's clothing, parading around with misunderstood syllogisms and out of context quotes, you're so pathetically vain. I know you. You know nothing of the nature of the world, your mind is filled with random tibits of other people's knowledge that you stole. You can't even comprehend how retarded you actually are. How much everyone whom you speak to wants to punch you're pudgy effeminate face. Get a life loser.

>>14871800

>>14871800
listen bro, im just trying to drop some pearls of wisdom here and there for the bros and ladies. Yeah, ofc it may come off as masturbatory but im just sharing knowledge like my main boy Guenon (pbuh)

>>14871800
holy shit

>>14871693
Movie worth watching?

>>14872311
Yeah. The Devil's Playground (1976). Australian film. A little unfocused but quite affecting.

>>14871697
It's not wrong.

>>14868032
Who isn't though?

>>14871043
But he’s kissing his foot

>>14872804
He wants the BBC. He’s trying to arouse him. Catholics are known homos.

>>14868107
Did you even read the chapter?

>>14868250
What did you even attempt to convey with this post?
Do you have dyslexia or are you ESL?

>>14871800
holy kek
this is pasta level, just saved.

>>14867881
>He renounced Catholicism
False, urban legend that somehow still gets regurgitated. He remained religious his entire life

>>14868210
As opposed to no sources at all?

>>14871800

>>14874327
Anal is banned by the Catholic church which is evidence that Joyce was an atheist

>>14867953
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci9CSCFQLOs

>>14867967
While it's always nice to find good posts on here we can't forget the contribution made by the absolutely retarded posts.

>>14867826
You could go to a psychologist, and investigate more about that religion and how religions had been working in the world if you want. I hope you find inner peace anon, I believe I've been in similar position, turned out I was mentally ill. My best wishes

>>14875667
>Thanks for the pills Dr. Goldstein, in combination with Professor Rosenberg's works on comparative religion they've made me forget all of these pesky thoughts about Jesus Christ and His Church!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVXnoanopzA

>>14868052
Only the first chapter is rambling like that. The rest has a lot of rambling in different styles. You got pleb filtered.

>>14875667
Oye vey

>>14867826
if you use the word 'unironically,' then your life was ruined well before joyce

>>14867826
lol i remember feeling similarly when i read that passage 4 years ago. I've been sinning every fucking day since then.

>>14868055
Literally the teaching of zero (0) churches.

>>14867826
This book is anti-Catholic. You should have realized this after young Stephen is called a heretic by his teacher because of a typo in his essay.

>>14872804
that's part of the ritual

>>14868055
>no no no no no- don't worry about what this book says. You need to worry about what this pederast says this book says.

>>14874327
He was an atheist for most of his life.

>>14867921
>>14867826
Fear God. More so the absence of God.

>>14868001
>>14868052

Every thousand years
This metal sphere
Ten times the size of Jupiter
Floats just a few yards past the Earth
If you climb on your roof
And take a swipe at it
With a single feather
Hit it once every thousand years
'Til you've worn it down
To the size of a pea
Yeah, I'd say that's a long time
But it's only half a blink in the place we're going to be
Where you going to be?
Where will you spend eternity?
I'm gonna to be perfect from now on
I've gotta to be perfect starting now

Joyce was an atheist like closeted gays are heterosexual.

>>14877319
he was a catholic at birth
an atheist for his life
and a catholic at his deathbed

>>14876861
False

>>14878550
Cope

Doesn't Stephen reject Catholicism at the end?