/lit/ - Literature

>>14857674
Extended family structures were whittled down to a "nuclear family", and the logic of industrial civilisation destroyed any idea of a stable generational bargain. Parents and grandparents, especially if they struggle to cope with life or adapt to change themselves, can hardly pass down useful knowledge. Additionally, the power of old men and old women in families - and the lore they could pass down - is now considered irrelevant or even harmful. Whereas the whimsical desires of youth are considered to be more authentic (and more profitable) than what wisdom and genuine family support would guide you toward. Institutionalized education systems are also a big problem. You need masters who can really teach you what you want and need to know, not lesson plans to fill the time and occupy the kids.

Guaranteed, someone will come into this thread and bleat "capitalism" but attempts at communism also destroyed family structures and replaced their functions with organs of the state.

>>14857824
Where can I read more about this? Do I need to read a social science book?

The free market and technological economic structures have destroyed family, gender roles, communal entertainment (opposed to commercial entertainment), extended family relations. It also pushed people to move away from home as soon as possible. That's what you get.

>>14858036
Gather general information(from the right sources) about modernity, you'll get there. You already know who.

>>14858063
Basically this
We've been forced to chase after an economic tail that only makes us more alienated from each other, we're like someone falling down a hill trying to run faster to keep balance
I don't personally believe we're able to get out of this downward spiral, not without completely new foundations
We need a neo-renaissance, but there's no good period to idealize

>>14858168
we need a bronaissance.

>>14858036
Read Ellul's The Technological Society and Marcuse's One-Dimensional Man.

>>14858036
Les Particules élémentaires by Houllebecq.

>>14857824
This critique is straight out of Marx though. Industrialisation, especially for the sake of capital, is exactly what you are talking about.

>>14857824
I call bullshit. You're only parroting information you perceive as correct without any real evidence or truth to back things up. Prove that Family structures diminished.

>>14857824
Well said, but this is basically only half the truth. An almost unfathomable history of violence gave those very family structures their stabilizing force. You're right that an imposition of "communism" from the top down will never work while people remain what they are--the solution, as you say, lies in education. But there is no reason to believe that "human nature" will remain what it is among a truly well-educated populace, as such a thing has never yet existed.

>>14858525
also this

>>14858128
>You already know who.
cmon man

>>14858525
>Guaranteed, someone will come into this thread and bleat "capitalism" but attempts at communism also destroyed family structures and replaced their functions with organs of the state.
>attempts at communism also destroyed family structures and replaced their functions with organs of the state.

Civilization has handed off knowledge transfer to the internet. Wisdom has been replaced with information. Nonspecific, decontextualized, sanitized, decultured, information. Where knowledge used to bear the human touch, now it has become mere data. Nobody is taught any more, carefully nurtured as if their mind is a unique possibility; like the machines this is a mass society consisting not of individuals but of data points, variables assigned to a grid.

>>14857674
Spengler explains it very well.

All great civilizations (classical, arabo-byzantine, indian, chinese etc) go through a life cycle like living organisms, which consists of a 'Culture' phase and a 'Civilization' phase.

When a new Culture is born, it gives birth to several generations of great scholars and artists who explore the inherent potential of that Culture. For 'Faustian' Culture, which is the current Western culture that gave birth to the modern world, that lasted from 1400-1800. It began with the Renaissance and ended with Kant, Euler and Baroque art.

However, at some point, the Culture exhausts its own creative potential and enters an unavoidable death spiral by becoming a Civilization. Meaningful innovations in art and philosophy come to a screeching halt. True religiousness dies off and gets replaced by rational reformism and materialism. The politics of money replace the politics of ideas. Social coherence breaks down, with a growing cultural divide between world-cities and surrounding regions. As nations stop developing internally they yearn to expand outwards, which results in imperialism.

The reason there are no longer any wise men in the modern world is because we were just born in the dying light of a Civilization. In Cultures geniuses become become scholars and artists, in Civilizations they are generals and statesmen.

>>14859184
>cmon man
You don't know who? If you don't, just ask. But you really do.

>>14859184
>>14860555
And when I tell you, you will know. You will realise that.

>>14860532
Based and blackpilled

there are still loads of smarties, we just see a lot more of them because of technology. just look at all you guys :)

>>14860532
omg yawn

>>14857674
Wisdom is functionally useless. There is no aphorism that isn’t contradicted by another “profound” aphorism from a different (or even the same) culture. It’s a form of knowledge that is almost indistinguishable from sophistry. Wisdom is concerned with producing statements that, while clever in their phrasing, aren’t much more than empty platitudes.

>>14859184
>You're right that an imposition of "communism" from the top down will never work while people remain what they are--the solution, as you say, lies in education. But there is no reason to believe that "human nature" will remain what it is among a truly well-educated populace, as such a thing has never yet existed.

Right you are, comrade. Commence the nerve stapling and build those genejack factories!

>>14859644
>the failures of communism means that Marxist critique is somehow futile
There’s a huge difference between attacking the dominant social order, and implementing a new one in its place. Even if you disagree with leftism, that critique was entirely in line with Marxist thought.

>>14860532
Typical Germanic horseshit on a plate.

>>14860784
>define wisdom as "empty platitudes"
>based upon this definition, brilliantly conclude that wisdom is "functionally useless"

what a big fucking brain you must have

someone call zizek and tell him to go back to sniffing benches, philosophy is over

>>14860841
It’s not a definition, it’s a description. A definition of “wisdom” is impossible to achieve as there is no universal constant across all types of wisdom to suggest they are the same thing. If two pieces of wisdom offer contradictory advice to the same situation, then how can we rationally conceive of them as being the same thing, unless it all boils down to sophistry anyway?

>>14857674
How can wise men come out of a society that produces pic related?

>>14857674
If you look far away enough, he kinds looks like m00t

>>14860900
GOOD point

>>14860900
Fuck you.

>>14860900
fu

>>14860885
>If two pieces of wisdom offer contradictory advice to the same situation, then how can we rationally conceive of them as being the same thing, unless it all boils down to sophistry anyway?

alright then, post an example of this befuddling brain teaser

>>14860900
based

>>14860900
jej

>>14860900
fuck you

>>14860930
>live your life like there’s no tomorrow
>the best things come to those who wait

>>14859700
>Nobody is taught any more, carefully nurtured as if their mind is a unique possibility

Was anybody really nurtured before, other than a few people who had power? It seems to me that before industrialization there was a lot of subsistence living and very few people lived up to their potential— unless that potential was to be starving peasants and farmers. The ones who were wealthy or in charge could afford to be nurtured but mostly just indulged themselves. A lot like now, in fact, except with a smaller population base.

>>14858168
>We need a neo-renaissance, but there's no good period to idealize

We need to create our own ideal. We can draw on periods and cultures we think had long lasting values that remain relevant while trying to invent something new. Because ultimately this Aboriginal Rune Trading website represents a drastic shift in the way culture evolves. But it also represents something we want to keep.

>>14857674
I like Mahler.

>>14861511
>>live your life like there’s no tomorrow

Just because some people believe in retarded things doesn't mean there's no such thing as wisdom.

>>14860900
based
>>14861926
deluded

>>14860900
coomed

>>14860900
dam

>>14861938
I didn't say wisdom didn't exist, I said it was functionally useless as a category of knowledge. If you have multiple conflicting aphorisms that are still bracketed in the same set of "wisdom", then wisdom as a category is pointless because you have zero consistency as to what makes a statement "wise". Not to mention the fact that the concept of "wisdom" itself carries a lot of pseudo-moralistic baggage and a self-satisfied appeal to authority.

By all means, try to define a "wise" statement in abstraction, but I don't think its possible.

>>14860900
kek

>>14862469
>By all means, try to define a "wise" statement in abstraction, but I don't think its possible.

A statement that guides a person to making better long-term life choices.

I don't think wisdom is generally contradictory, and when it is, it has to do with being applied in different scenarios. Given your previous example I think you've taken any common phrase as wisdom. There is surely a lot of things stupid people mistake as wisdom, which generally just serves to reinforce their poor choices, like the statement I highlighted earlier.

>>14860900
based

>>14858525
it's not 'straight out of Marx', it just reminds you of Marx. Marx did not invent literally anything that anon posted, you don't need to believe any of his economic or historical theories.

>>14859117
NONONONONONONON STOOOOOP NONONONONON YOU CAN'T DRAW OBSERVATIONS BASED OFF YOUR OWN EPXERIENCES OH GOOOOD NOOO SOURCE??? SOURCE??? SOURCE??? SOURCE??? SOURCE???? OH MY FUCKING GODODDD

>>14860532
This is interesting, thanks

>>14861937
Literally and only people without souls don’t like him

>>14860900
Ur a fagget

>>14860900
nice tits on that chick

>>14860900
Fuck you

>>14859644
The communist meme was just what Marx thought was the logical conclusion of capitalism. With technocracy, some Kaczynski scenario seems like a more likely conclusion. This is absolutely an issue of modernity of which capitalism, or a materialist view of history in general is the culprit.

>>14857674
They have been aborted. We were unlucky.

>>14860784
Direct contradictions shouldn't be an issue since 0 and 1 are both true and untrue. Quantum state, or the wave state, is a very real phenomenon that indeed, includes in it the potential for binary. From which people have then declared banal absolutes.

>>14857824
Oh yeah all the wisdom of illiterate farmers
>Red sky in the mornin', shepard's warnin'; red sky at night, shepard's delight hehe
Damn, wish I we still had a strict pre-industrial patriarchal family structures so I could learn peasant wisdom.

>>14859117
I say you are a fucking moron. A god damn moron for not noticing that the Family Unit has diminished greatly in the past century.

You are so fucking stupid. Read a God Damn history book you fucking Jew.

>>14864207
you know nothing

>>14864207
Major Cringe & Yikes

>>14858168
>but there's no good period to idealize
HIV+ transsexual neo-chinese latino baroque cometh

>>14864207
Professing themselves to be wise, they became the fools

Because a lot of 'knowledge' isn't very useful. Most people know the problems in their lives, they don't need philosophers they need an accountant and a dietician who visits once a week. Same thing is happening in colleges, early American colleges specialized in the humanities because they were playgrounds for rich people who wanted workstation perspectives to help them win harder. Most people who go to college these days aren't rich so they need knowledge and skills sets they can use to escape negrodom.

>>14858063
Sounds pretty based to me. What seems to be the problem

>>14857674
>Where have all the wise men gone?
>And where are all the gods?
>Where's the streetwise Hercules to fight the rising odds?
>Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?
>Late at night I toss and I turn
>And I dream of what I need

>>14860900
based

I am the wisest man alive AMA

>>14865123
What do you know?

>>14865126
That I know nothing.

>>14860900
Fayget

>>14857824
To accuse capitalism of being the problem isn't an automatic support of communism, you fucking idiot.
>hurr durr if you criticize capitalism it means you want communism

>>14859184
>unfathomable history of violence
Discipline usually requires violence. The better person, and control of human nature, was usually achieved through that violence, as you call it, which was only aggressive instruction, which is the only kind of instruction that leaves a real mark.

>>14857674
Gustav Mahler was truly a dime a dozen among Jews. He created some of the best classical music ever and was genuinely not subversive.

>>14865259
>He created some of the best classical music ever
He's trash

>>14860900
uhhh cringe bro

>>14860900
You're all gay, she has a penis!

>>14857824
you are right on. everyone harps on the nuclear family but no one acknowledges generational wealth, knowledge, or even support. Being successful means to be alone at best.

>>14860784
That's pretty wise, anon.

>>14865127
How do you know?

>>14857674
"and where are all the gods?"

>>14865267
How would you know?

>>14866061
C minor, put it in C minor

>>14860900
kek

>>14857674
The purpose of education has always been to pass down the culture. When you hate your culture because who cares about dead white males, then education dies. It's simple.

>>14865096
HIT IT!

>>14866194
AAAH
AAAAAAH
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHH

>>14862469
>he can't deal with paraconsistency
>he thinks phronesis can be judged according to the standards of logos

lmao

>>14857824
>>14859117
Are you retarded? It's pretty much undeniable, self-evident. In the past people had a clannish mentality, today they put that loyalty and expectation into the state, the state that abuses and manipulates and fails them on whim, more so they put it into a larger global corporate-state apparatus that intentionally makes them work against their interests and incapable of accruing power. Arguably the elites are the only ones with clan-mindedness, that is generational self-interest and support, the destitute poor are close as well but too dysfunctional.

It's a big reason why in the Middleages the state was so decentralised and in many respects nonexistent (a lot of stuff handled by recognised traditional rights between extended families (clans)). And even more so further back. You know why prechristian Germanics (including Anglosaxons) had and Arabs have blood feuds and honour killings? Because in their mentality the clan is effectively the 'nationstate' and its needful that it be defended and steered, and one's interests not given up.

>>14864219
seethe retard

>>14865259
Say he was Austrian man. The Austrians, Jews they may be, but remember all the other Jews in the world at the same time who weren’t able to artistically accomplish Jack shit, were so close to the peak cultural greatness in the last century, so close.