/lit/ - Literature

only Fisher

https://medium.com/united-green-alliance/nick-land-is-a-english-philosopher-who-has-in-the-past-year-gained-quite-a-bit-of-traction-on-the-61d482ecec21

>>14841277

One must first make coherent statements in order to be refuted. Do not say: "He does make coherent statements, you're just dumb.", as this would be false.

He is a literal embodiment of the horseshoe theory; he has taken pessimistic, Schopenhauerian Marxism to its most extreme and ended up as a proponent of NRx. However, this conclusion is quite unfounded in evidence and oftentimes contradictory. While Land has many valid points on the impossibility of a true revolution, his solution to such is wrong, and often antithetical to what I view as a much better path.

Land is disillusioned to the point of disillusionment. He has abandoned a system commonly seen as utopian for one even more ignorant of current conditions. NRx is a society that is nearly impossible to achieve in the present day unless a major ideological shift is completed in both establishment politics and the general populous. While communism needs a similar change, the possibility of it, while still slim to the chance of near non-existence, is a good bit higher; communism can essentially be seen as a term of progression beyond a capitalist society. NRx can be seen, in simplest terms, as a regression from capitalism to something similar to (but not entirely) feudalistic capitalism.

Land is also, intentionally or unintentionally, advocating for ecocide. As he advocates for the most extreme acceleration of capitalism possible, he also advocates for what would ultimately destroy the environment. I see this as his goal, something just short of a pessimism so strong it’s omnicidal, however, even as someone very heavily influenced by pessimists such as Schopenhauer and Benatar I see this “solution” as undesirable and impossible. The goal of us pessimists should not be to kill off the human race and the Earth in a blaze of glory. Rather, we should advocate for a slow yet peaceful extinction of the human race through natural measures and the complete preservation of our planet.
This is not to say that Land does not have many vital points about the impossibility of revolution. I fully agree with his assertion that a communist utopia will never be created in any of our lifetimes, if ever. However, he is simply taking this in the wrong direction. He is being a hypocrite in his solution.
Land deserves academic attention for his ideas and his work with the Cybernetic Culture Research Unit, his interpretations of philosophers like Deleuze and Lyotard, and many of his leftist works. But besides this his work has largely and totally been an unsatisfactory failure. Accelerationism, while predicting our modern future and gaining popularity as of late, is losing its validity slowly but surely, and Land can be easily linked as the main cause of this. Accelerationism should be at the very least reworked, and at the worst disregarded. It is simply an unfounded ideology based off of pessimistic utopianism.

You can't refute someone noone understands

>>14841304
This is true. I’ll ask another question. Is what he describes observable?

>>14841323
This reads as if a college freshman was somehow randomly assigned accelerationism as an essay topic in philosophy 101.

>>14841361
Cope. Nick Land was refuted by some undergraduate pseud

>>14841277
What is there to refute? He didn't prove anything

>>14838133

You refuted him by creating this slide thread.

>>14841293
How so? Don't they agree?

>>14841323
Worthless post.
>The goal of us pessimists should not be to kill off the human race and the Earth in a blaze of glory. Rather, we should advocate for a slow yet peaceful extinction of the human race through natural measures and the complete preservation of our planet.
Land is not a humanitarian. It literally does not matter how fast or comfortably humanity perishes. He is, if anything, pro-intelligence, and thus welcomes an AI singularity. Yes he advocates ecocide. You've offered no reason why he shouldn't, merely stated it is so.
>Accelerationism, while predicting our modern future and gaining popularity as of late, is losing its validity slowly but surely, and Land can be easily linked as the main cause of this.
Why is Accelerationism's popularity relevant? It does not rely on it's own popularity to actualize itself. It's unpopularity does nothing to disprove it, as it makes no claims as to its own popularity or unpopularity.

This post is embarassingly bad. Literally, "I don't like Land's ideas and neither do most people so they are wrong".

>>14841295
Is this bait? This is a student making a bunch of normative statements and comparing the probabilities of two dystopian systems ever becoming realized. Not a single fucking argument.

>>14841435
Which is just relevant as acc.

>>14841399
He proved that capitalism is an artificial intelligence that is expanding via cybernetic feedback loop. Are you ready to refute anything now?

>>14841467
What were his sources?

>>14841424
Fisher thought capitalism was going to lose

>>14841467
>capitalism is an artificial intelligence that is expanding via cybernetic feedback loop
This is autistic.
Proof:
Only humans act within capitalism. Thus capitalism is just a pattern of human actions. Some humans are very powerful and get to dictate the actions of millions. These humans enforce and decide on capitalism
QED

>>14841467
That would be Camatte. Or even Marx.
As for intelligence, very easily proved wrong. 'It' made 'itself' incredibly fragile and stupid.

True power would have meant never having its name even mentioned, or at least no one ever cringing when they hear 'BETTER THAN COMMUNISM!'
Perhaps the best argument, other than its destroying of its own greatest symbols, would be that of the geopolitical question. Russia was not a concern on the world stage, and is still weak economically (at least in terms of the intelligent data), however, it was able to bring the most powerful nation in history to its knees through brilliant geopolitical strategy. This proves that capital is nothing in the face of power.

>>14841473
The sparkling font of Deleuze and Guattari
>>14841500
>Only humans act within capitalism. Thus capitalism is just a pattern of human actions. Some humans are very powerful and get to dictate the actions of millions. These humans enforce and decide on capitalism
Refutation: Although few humans may influence many others, this is not the same as truly controlling them. The exchange ratios which are calibrated via misesian catalactics depend on physical constraints that the whole of humanity, let alone one person, can not control. As we cannot control the physical parameters from which the capitalist's game-theory systems perform decision making, we are thus powerless control capitalism itself.

>>14841500
Plenty of things "act" within capitalism, technology, climate, pandemics, that sort of thing is common. Capitalism is bigger than human action, there isn't some cabal of people who are able to steer capitalism wherever they want, even the biggest international corporations and financial regulatory bodies can't prevent a recession. Obviously individual humans can make noticeable changes to elements of the economy, but there's a long long way between that and humans enforcing capitalism. What human could stop oil being pulled out of the earth? What human could stop the manufacture of cars, or cell phones, or computers? Short of literally ending the whole system, it's an impossibility.

>>14841542
This is just metakantianism, or in simple terms, moving the goal posts of the a priori. Now we can no longer even understand that law which gave rise to capital, so it becomes a thing-in-itself.
But that was never really the case, capital is entirely material and never valorises beyond the kantian limits within which it was created. A mythology follows its death and subsumption by bourgeois politics.

>>14841557
This is only because you have determined the human as a minor thing while capital is the greatest. It's a circular argument which will always prove that capital is dominant over the human.
However, if we reestablish the terms, particularly in relation to modern history, then we see that there is also a 'valorising' form of the human. This is essentially what the Leviathan is, and capital merely follows this form of being of the modern human. It is a tool, or at best a marketplace, where the individual bodies recover before returning to the Leviathan; it is neither the armour nor the machinery which attaches humans to the beast.
Or another way of putting it, capital is the tavern where the Leviathan celebrates in between its conquests. It has little power, or even effect, on the conquests themselves.

>>14841697
By definition, a human is a very minor thing compared to capital. You have virtually no power over the economy. I get what you mean, that it's just a collection of human actions, no one's ever debated that. It's a question of emergence, higher level phenomena coming from the interaction of lower ones.

>>14841304
He does make coherent statements, you're just dumb.

>>14841524
Capitalism does not rely on symbols, geopolitics, or anyones support. It is power itself, made physical, and sprouts from any unattended surface. It has never been less fragile. It is not an arbitrary ideology forced on the world by American hegemony. It is every interaction and transaction we make, amping up though industrialization and technological progress.
>>14841618
But we can understand the law which gives rise to capital. It is the physical manifestation of power itself. This is what fiscal assets, factory machines and spears all hold in common. They beget themselves, thus proliferating though processes of industrilization and commercialization feeding back onto eachother. They valorize and devalorize according to inhuman processes, as individual people uncomprehendingly interact with the catallactic logic of capital. This process is itself AI, which is indistinguishable from capital, and through AI, the material learns to valorize itself though a new medium, where it previously relied on the probabilistic behavior bound in human action.

>>14841716
Not what I mean at all.
There is a form of the human, even within each era. This form of the modern human is perhaps best represented by the Leviathan. Capital is only one means employed in the process of becoming this being.
To some extent the theories of capital as a godform are simply recuperating this myth, acting it out within their limited knowledge. thus it is given a form similar to capital, but this is only due to the circular limits placed upon the knowledge itself.
Economy has never been a dominant organising principle of humanity, only in those societies on the verge of collapse.

>>14841758
No offense but you sound like you've never read anything Nick Land has ever written

>>14841721
How is capital power itself if it is easily defeated by power? You're playing semantics. Power is power. Capital is capital. Each has a different essence.
It is not every interaction we make, that is just a huge cope. Industrialisation is itself a different force. This is, again, most clear in war where profit and capital expansion become minor concerns. The states will even seize all property in these situations.
Read up on property acquisition laws during a pandemic, all capital is subject to a state of exception. Your stadiums will become morgues if necessity dictates.

>>14841767
You're assuming that being in this thread I have to follow Land's philosophy. Not how it works.
You sound like you never started with the Greeks.

>>14841789
You don't have to follow someone's philosophy to refute it but you do have to read it

>>14841542
>>14841524
>>14841557
No. All this abstract beyond our control systems woo woo is a major neoserf cope -- you don't want to admit that some people live a life of constant gratification and empowerment.
Here is the simplest proof you are wrong: all events are perpetrated by human actors. For any law that is passes, attack that is ordered, propaganda that is published, there is a finite list of people with names and addresses that perpetrated that event.
Capitalism persists because it is a set of state enforced laws: a mix of property rights and codes concerning commerce. The state enforces these laws because powerful people allow the state to continue to enforce these laws. These laws were passed to begin with by powerful people who decided it would be so.
If I were given an army of 1 million, each and every one of these people could be legally prosecuted and punished (no fedposting on my Christian board :^)) and the nation would become whatever I want it to be, economic practice include. I could imprison anyone who harvests oil, for example. This is within the realm of possibility and there is historical precedent for it. If you believe in autistic, abstract systems and not the supremacy of your flesh masters, you need a history lesson. Quit reading babbling kikes and pick up a history book.

>>14841784
>Your stadiums will become morgues
what sort of acc is this

>>14841767
>you sound like you've never read anything Nick Land has ever written
Why would anything ever read what he wrote? Is it practically useful in any way? Does it tell me, in a practical and efficient manner, what is best for society and how to get there? Or is it complete babble about recursive dynamical systems of signifiers and book-objects that fractionate and spin reflexively?

>>14841304

>>14841806
>If I were given an army of 1 million, each and every one of these people could be legally prosecuted and punished (no fedposting on my Christian board :^)) and the nation would become whatever I want it to be, economic practice include. I could imprison anyone who harvests oil, for example.
Plenty of people have tried stuff like this and it has all failed. If Mao's project ends in Deng Xiao Ping you wouldn't make it off the ground

>>14841277
Refutation is a strong word. Dissent is more like it. But t b h it'll take another millenia before people get past the scope of Land’s work where they can start bracketing him off, divvying up his views, and responding to soundbites accordingly. In other words, this Nietzsche has not had his Heidegger yet, let alone his Deleuze.

>>14841801
No I don't. if his followers can't justify it's utility it's already refuted

>>14841721
Reproduction is not power. The Darwinian theory of machines ignores that increasing power or fitness is not the law at all. It is adaptation alone. This can mean towards weakness, which is clear in something like computers and phones. Such technology either creates or is created by a form of man who is no longer capable of wielding the tools that created the strong form of machines.
They valorise and devalorise according to human processes. You're ignoring that AI is itself a form of machinic reproduction of human intelligence. Its entire success is understood by its relation to the human.
You should at least understand power if you are going to appropriate Nietzsche for your reductionist theories. And if you're going to make a fetish of intelligence you should attempt to at least mimic it.

>>14841399

>>14841834
wrong and cuckpilled

>>14841824
>Plenty of people have tried stuff like this and it has all failed. If Mao's project ends in Deng Xiao Ping you wouldn't make it off the ground
This is a dumb response that ignores the natural state given the environment and returns on energy put into social processes. Capitalism is superior to Maoism in every way which is why the elite use it. That doesn't mean what you think though -- their excesses can still be curbed. We can poop on, in minecraft, billionaires for example while keeping a free market as to not waste massive amounts of energy on centralizing everything for little return

>>14841847
Exactly the response I expected from the type of pseud that takes shit like Nick Land seriously

>>14841524
>Mary-Belle Kirschner
>Kirschner Name Meaning. German and Jewish (Ashkenazic): Saxon or Silesian form of Kürschner (see Kurschner).

>>14841801
Well I didn't really say anything about Land's theory in that post, only what capital and economy are as an essence and their form in history.
Perhaps you should read an introductory philosophy text before playing gotcha.

>>14841853
>We can poop on, in minecraft, billionaires for example while keeping a free market as to not waste massive amounts of energy on centralizing everything for little return

>>14841293
he’s dead

>>14841867
So just to be clear then, you don't have an argument against Nick Land, you just wanted to blogpost?

>>14841870
Face it, I talk in real terms that are predictive while NIck Land babbles about recursive book objects refracting in on themselves causing an AI singularity to spin in 5 dimensions

>>14841806
It wouldn't happen this way because there is a spirit of the age. Capital is the economic type of the age because it is one with the being of man in the modern era. You would have limited means to change this unless you were capable of also changing the form of man, essentially ending the modern era.
Your theory is also basically just marxism: the goy theory of value in which Jews are the bourgeoisie. It is the same in its essence.

>>14841818
This basically. Land doesn't say anything relevant about economy, so how would he ever say anything about man, spirit, wealth, architecture, etc.? He is repackaging better thinkers and selling capital because he only sees capital.

>>14841829
lmao. Post one thing that would legitimize him being discussed in ten years let alone a thousand.

>>14841524
What nation did Russia bring to it’s knees? They lost the Cold War.

>>14841876
Not like accfags would ever accept it anyways. But the basic problem is that he has no understanding of modernity, nor even economics. It's completely irrelevant.
A rough outline of many of the problems is here:
>>/lit/thread/S14715357#p14717643

>>14841784
You have a puny conception in capital, entirely hampered by the consideration of it being the opposite of communism. Industrialization IS the force of capitalism. Industrialization is the process of creating industry, i.e., factories, plants, machines, mass production. Capital by definition is a physical object we ascribe value to and can use to change the world. This is power made physical. Factories, power plants, machines, are all capital. A tree in the wilderness is not capital. An axe that cuts it down is capital, lumber is capital. Factories are capital. Industrialization creates capital. Commercialization valorizes that capital. Profit is always the concern. Capitalism is not just about money. Tanks, guns, oil, all capital. If it gives you no power it is not capital. Communists merely try to prevent their citizens from trafficking in this power. On the macroscopic scale they are no less subject to it.
>>14841806
>all events are perpetrated by human actors
Literally already wrong, stopped reading. Try to make it past the first sentence next time
>>14841841
>clear in something like computers and phones
This is not clear, you have not demonstrated how such things are becoming weaker.
>You're ignoring that AI is itself a form of machinic reproduction of human intelligence
AI does not imply artificial general intelligence. Land himself has often specified that pursuit of AGI is a human cope. AI is no more a mimicry of human thinking as solving systems of linear equations is. In many ways it surpasses it.

>>14841914
America. I was clearly talking about post-collapse since I said they were economically weak.
America was humiliated in Ukraine and Syria, their all-in war push brought to a standstill, and their empire ended (which only has to be formalised now).

>>14841974
Capitalist China will replace it. The ferris wheel of impotent ideology is enslaved by capital.
>>14841952
Rough is too generous, this is a list of unsubstantiated garbage. What doesn't he understand about modernity or economics? Will you ever reveal what it is? I doubt it, because you are merely pretending to have an answer, feigning intelligence.

>>14841954
Sure, if you define everything as capital and capital as powerful then it's powerful. But that's not what capital actually is.
Define capital.
Define power.
Define technology.
Explain how capital is the dominant force over technology.
Explain how capital benefits in total war.
Explain how capital benefits after America's losses in Ukraine and Syria.

Also explain why capital is represented by the cuck face. Why Bezos has to hand over half of his wealth like any pleb. Where is the power in this?

>>14841997
China is communist.

>>14841483
He did? I thought he didn't believe in ghost futures of communism or whatever

>>14841954
So simple AI is smarter than real AI?
Fucking brainlet.

>>14841524
Apparently she is well versed in Land

>>14841997
>unsubstantiated garbage
Nice cope faggot. Refute the list.
He doesn't understand the modern human, really says nothing about him. As for economics, he conflates it with technology and rationalism. He recuperates in theory what capital itself was incapable of defeating, either as a cope or a means of establishing a theory for academia. Possibly both.

>>14841997
>America won't risk M.A.D. over Ukraine or Syria by firing on Russia
>the American empire is finished because it lost a proxy war in the third world

Ask me how I know you're a zoomer

>>14841911
All the articles written about incel terrorists and "the dark enlightenment"

>>14842012
Yes, the nation with more impoverished workers and globetrotting millionaires than anywhere else. A nation who’s lifeblood is manufacturing plastic crap to be shipped to wealthier nations. Truly China is an example to communists around the world.

>>14842056
Explain how American and capital benefit.
Explain how this was not a complete loss on the world stage, and at the very least initiated a global opposition to openly stand up to American aggression.

>>14842074
They see themselves as communist. Perhaps you should prove them wrong.

>>14842056
Also, you're ignoring that the very act risked nuclear confrontation, proving that you have no geopolitical and military knowledge.

>>14842020
Not exactly. There's just no value in replicating human functions in AI.
https://jacobitemag.com/2019/04/03/primordial-abstraction/
>>14842045
>Nice cope faggot. Refute the list.
Ok, let's start with the first item:
>Relativism
Alright, just have to refute relativism. Because otherwise the word relativism refutes Land. Makes sense, lets see what I can come up with:
>Objectivism.
How'd I do?
>>14842056
>>14842093
It doesn't matter whether American empire is over or will benefit. Literally completely irrelevant. America is not capitalism. China is a purer expression of capitalist accelerationism. Deng was the most accelerationist world leader.

>>14842113
>communism is capitalist accelerationism
Okay retard.
>American empire, the center of capital doesn't matter
You ignored the entire argument. Are you retarded or just coping? The argument is that capital is pure power.
My counter was that a less powerful material nation was, a non-representative of capital, was able to defeat and severely cripple the empire at the heart of capital. Which proves that power is itself something greater than capital.

But please go ahead and explain how capital is superior to nations and empires when Smith himself theorised capital as a means of extending national power. How did the shift occur? At what point? And what causes capital to be more powerful than the nations who created it?
Bonus points for explaining how capital is more powerful than power, and how if it kills its enemies they win.

>>14842093
America loses geopolitical games consistently. Foreign wars are something the schizoid managerial caste tries its hand at every ten years but without committing any serious resources or stakes. The entire American military is mercenary; there is no loss it can't tolerate while operating abroad. The only "benefits" are to spread disorder in other regions while American aerospace and defense companies rack up profits. It is something like the late Roman Republic if it were run by impulsive, obese boomers. Of course there is 'global opposition' to this behavior but it is never enough. American capital has its tendrils in enough pieces of the puzzle to prevent the status quo from changing too much. When you have an alliance with Europe, Japan, Saudi Arabia, and Israel you have basically bisected the rest of the world.

>>14842139
So capital leads to the death of nations and is the opposite of intelligence.
Thanks for proving my point.

>>14841277
yes.

>>14842110
Fifty years of proxy wars in Africa, Asia, and the Balkans, no nuclear annihilation. The appetite is there and habit has been formed.

>>14842159
>my non sequitur is totally not relativism
Retard.

>>14842102
not a communist state actually, the Chinese communists are pretty clear on that. they are going to practice capitalism for a few decades and try and shoot for socialism in 2050 or something.

Accfags are the dumbest humans on the planet. Where's the intelligence?

>>14842149
If there is an intelligence to capital it would not be something necessarily compatible with the intelligence of states. Why should numbers in a ledger care if country a beats country b?

>>14842139
>geopolitical games
Look at this dude.

>>14842176
Well, if the winning nation is in opposition to capital that could create a bit of a problem for capital.
Are you really this dense?

>>14842136
And MY point was that considering nations like Russia a non-representative of capital in the first place was foolish of you. Communism is an untenable ideal, and the temporary and local ideological realizations of communists are not stable systems.
So Smith was wrong, and capital is not created by nations. Nations themselves are corporate entities at war with one another.
So is China communist? They call themselves Communist, capital C, so lets say they are. But they sure as hell are practicing capitalism.
>>communism is capitalist accelerationism
>Okay retard.
See, it's amazing to me you would take issue with this when MARX WAS LITERALLY A CAPITALIST ACCELERATIONIST WHO ADVOCATED FOR FREE TRADE

>>14842196
How do you feel about Russia joining OPEC? Do you really think they are opposed to capital or just opposed to the unipolarity of the Western financial system since it is used as a retaliation measure to prevent them from exercising their own share of capital freely?

>>14842196
>he thinks there are nations opposed to capital
>he doesn't know his favorite ideologue dictator uses capital too

>nation a wins nation b wins capital wins
>win-win-win situation
>nation a loses nation b wins capital wins
>win-win-win situation
>nation a wins nation b loses capital wins
>win-win-win situation
>nation a wins nation b wins capital loses capital wins
>win-win-win-win situation
>nation a loses nation b loses capital wins
>win-win-win situation
>nation a wins nation b loses capital loses capital wins
>win-win-win-win-win situation
>nation a wins nation b wins capital loses capital wins
>win-win-win-win-win-win situation
stop shilling this stupid bullshit already, capital deceleration can't stop capital acceleration

>>14842211
Irrelevant question that doesn't understand what is responding to.
Get some intelligence.

>>14842222
Kim Jong-un is a capitalist? Who knew?

clearly this thread shows no

>>14842204
>>14842204
>MY
Aren't you an anti-humanist? Why the ego?

>>14842280
Nothing to refute samefag

>>14842204
>So Smith was wrong
How?
Also answer>>14842004

Dilation is Sentient

>>14842204
Your inability to follow basic logic calls your ideology into question.
The argument is this:
Capital is power.
Nation a has superior capital/power over nation b
Therefore nation a should win.

I showed how this is wrong and that power is something different from capital. Otherwise you would have to show that capital is actually most powerful where it doesn't have power, or somehow extends its power by 'losing games'.

Yep

>>14841293
What's he say?

>>14841323
>Land advocates
False.

>>14842139
I recommend you read some actual geopolitics before you go about having opinions otherwise you'll just end up embarrassing yourself again.

Idk but this comic is funny

>>14841277
is his work even that notable?

>>14841954
>Literally already wrong, stopped reading. Try to make it past the first sentence next time
Brainlet. What else besides humans can act? We don't have intelligent animals and robots in our societies yet

>>14841887
>It wouldn't happen this way because there is a spirit of the age.
No, this is a gay abstraction for things evidently beyond the understanding of "philosophers". Everything IS material

>>14842481
you look worse than him since he at least said something

>>14842136
>>communism is capitalist accelerationism
A-are you implying China is a communist state? I know they are run by a communist party, but even the communist party wouldn't go so far as to say China is a communist state.

>>14843434
>Everything IS material
Cringe.

>>14843547
>denying tautological truth
Cope

>>14843537
The Communist Party of China maintains that despite the co-existence of private capitalists and entrepreneurs with public and collective enterprise, China is not a capitalist country because the party retains control over the direction of the country, maintaining its course of socialist development.

>>14841467
That was Baudrillard

>The story goes like this: pseuds are captured by a Landian singularity as empty technobabble and edgy posturing lock into cheesiness take-off. Grammatically awkward obsolete cyberpunk prose meltdowns thought in auto-fellating buzzword incontinence. As post-Virtual Futures tantrums try to manufacture intelligence, secluded bullshitters modernize, upgrade alt-right paranoia, and refuse to get a grip. The cringiness climbs through a series of Myspace posts. Bourgeois Décadence Disguised as Anti-Anthropocentric Rationality trashes Decent Deleuze Scholarship, Worthy Schizoanalytic Praxis, the First and Second Terminator, and Deleuzo-Nietzscheanism, cranking up capitalist ideology through compressing phases of narcissistic self-victimization…

>>14842314
You are a fucking retard. Nations rising and falling doesn’t harm capital itself. You still think you can measure the success of capital by its largest proponent. I keep telling by you that it’s greatest opponents are performative capitalists as well but you have completely failed to acknowledge this point in several posts. I can tell you will toil in ignorance for the rest of your life because your brain is evidently incapable of processing information it disagrees with.

>>14843558
right, you could argue as a capitlaist state it has socialist tendencies, but it's not a communist state and it's not socialism (workers dont own the means of production)

>>14843585
he already admitted he doesn't know what he's talking about, hasn't read and Nick Land, and just made some general argument against economic determinism. he doesn't understand the topic at hand, which is weird cause this isn't the first acc thread I've seen him in

>>14843585
>You still think you can measure the success of capital by its largest proponent.
Where was this stated?
>I keep telling by you
Ok?
>performative capitalists
What does this mean? Is it like performance art?
>I keep telling by you
Ok?
>I keep telling by you
You what?
>I can tell you
Ok?
>I can tell you
What?

Define capital.
Define power.
How and why is capital superior to power?

>>14843590
And not capitalist. So you're wrong.
Why the ego? Why deny the data?

>>14843599
Where?
You said never to listen to lit advice. So stop posting.

>>14843599
You're a tranny.

>>14843606
see
>>14841867
I have no idea what you are talking about anymore

>>14843556
Fake and gay.

>>14843603
>And not capitalist
Then what is it? It looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but cannot be a duck because the communist party of China dictates it isn't?

>>14843617
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Every. Single. Fucking. Time.
You can't even fucking read.
And why do you capitalize I?

Refuted here
>>14843640

>>14841277
how do i see tripcode again?

>>14843617
>I didn't really say anything about Land's theory in that post
>admitted he doesn't know what he's talking about, hasn't read and Nick Land
Holy fuck you're stupid.

>>14843600
Capital is economic growth, power is the ability for one actor to coerce other actors. Capital is superior to power because it is the only means modern man has to quantify power. Capital tells the masses who has power, it guides resources to power, and in doing so capital facilitates the growth of power faster than anything else.
You might believe you only need power to succeed, and go full big boss taking soldiers, resources, and weapons by force. But you’ll have a hard time seeing how to proceed. And eventually the capitalists will find a way to use you in their game and you’ll be just like all the other South American dictators.

>>14843662
>bro I totally know what I'm talking about, I have an argument against Land but it's too super secret no one is allowed to know
fuck off faggot

>>14843689
>>bro I totally know what I'm talking about, I have an argument for Capital but it's too super secret no one is allowed to know

>>14843667
>Capital is economic growth
Maybe, but you'd have a hard time proving this. If it is just economic growth then what differentiates capitalism from mercantilism? Similarly, if AI is just a counting machine then an abacus is an AI. Your philosophy is built on slippery terms, which can be used for and against you in sophistic arguments, but in relation to truth there is nothing.
>power is the ability for one actor to coerce other actors
This would be more like force. An individual in a society can coerce other actors through random violence or other actions, but this is not power necessarily. True power would be related to sovereignty, its being upheld or overthrown for a greater power.
There's not much point in going further than this because better definitions are required for the philosophy to have any substance, but I'll make a few comments anyway.

>Capital is superior to power
Well, no. We have the Leviathan as a myth. A material example would be the founding laws of modernity, the state which controls international law is either in power, or the international law itself is in power. There is already a form of 'valorisation' that occurs between the Old and New World. But this can be seen in the negative rather than as the form of power itself - a means of resolution as the new lines of territory are established. Sea power is economic until the privateers create their own form of war, or at a deeper level, until the continents can be bridged by technology and war waged in the Old World.
This is one meaning of the 20th century being the technological century. The New World ended its colony/economic status, only America maintained the void of economic power - which was due to its misunderstanding of world power and European law, perhaps even its own place in history.

>capital facilitates the growth of power faster than anything else
So we're back to the same question, why did Russia win over the capitalist nations?
Why do people like Bezos, Musk, and Zuckerberg appear so lacking in power if it is on their side?

>you’ll be just like all the other South American dictators
Kek, again: Russia. I'll clarify this again as well, Russia did not in any way gain its advantageous position through capital, it was all technological, military, diplomatic and geopolitical positioning. They used their alliances, military intelligence, and proxies to defeat America's WWIII push (I know you won't accept that's what it was, but that is just your determinism speaking, not the reality). That is power in the state sense, sovereignty which proved itself over forces of chaos and economic thinking.

>>14842012
DUHHHHHHHH
DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
DUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR HURRRRRRRRRRRR DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>14843908
dun dun duh dun dun duh dunm dunm dunm dunm dunm dun dun duh dun dun duh dunm dunm dunm dunm dunm DUN DUN DUH DUN DUN DUH DUMN DUMN DUMN DUMN DUMN DUN DUN DUH DUN DUN DUH DUNM DUNM DUNM DUNM DUNM

DA DUM

DUM DUM DUM DUM

DA DUM

DAAAAA DAAAA DAA DAAA DAAA DAAAAAA DADADADADA DAH DA DAH DAH

BA BA BA BA BADA BADA

BAAA BOOMF

>>14843740
>argument for Capital but it's too super secret
anon books aren't secret, you can go on Amazon right now and buy Fanged Noumena if you want. you could just google a pdf

>>14844037
Post the excerpt, or fake and gay.

>>14843632
>>14843617
This is definitely social intelligence poster

>>14844037
You're the biggest retard on the board and never contribute anything

>>14844042

>>14843567
Brilliant

I came. I saw. They capitalized.

>>14841277
He's an incoherent retard who has the (very impressive) ability to write more or less total nonsense that strikes the right emotional chord in other incoherent retards, esp. undiagnosed schizophrenics, schizoids, and the severely depressed.
I have never met a mentally healthy man willing to give Land's """philosophy""" the time of day.

>>14842012
China is legalist.

>>14844070
Thank you for your purchase.

We remind you of our strict no refunds company policy. Contact your local distributor for more information.

>>14844099
dilate

>>14844129
The even funnier part is that Land is overwhelmingly popular with "extremely online" art-school trannies.
How about instead of defending your favorite pseudointellectual retard online, you schedule an appointment with a therapist and give your parents a phone call.

>>14844099
This. The ability of dumbass pseuds to attract other pseuds needs to be scientifically studied. It's amazing, really. I think it boils down to them just asserting some emotional delusion again and again in their writings, making people with that delusion feel good and thus addicting them
>>14844129
Case in point
PS. Seethe

>>14844070
Post-irony that doesn't realize it is post-irony. What's the point?

>>14841860
I, too, am high off my own fumes

>>14844147
Nick Land isn't popular with trannies. and you just can't into neologisms and complex theory.

>>14844196
>you just can't into Land's practice of making up pseudo-cyberpunk retard babble to trap the reader into previously established patterns of thought and warm them to otherwise unconscionable pseud ideas

https://twitter.com/NyxLandUnlife
Read it and weep, schizoid.

>>14844183
masturbation feels good, and there are people who like to watch

>>14844070
>capital is everything
>can't beat capital because things change
>marxism bad therefore procapitalist marxism good
Yep that's a retard.

>>14844223
I'm not a schizo. you're the one posting all this nonsense without ever reading Land.

>>14844247
>>14844037
>>14843689
>>14843617
No bait, just my real thoughts. My social and emotional intelligence is likely higher than yours, I work with many differnt people on a daily basis on my job. I do find many good people there & even more from the large group of stupid people, out of which a small portion makes no secret out of the fact that they would like to make you kill yourself.
My workplace is filled with grade A people only, but I guess I'm not the only one hearing abhorrent stories from relatives who participate in real life, stories from work or private life, where again the stupidity of the large part of humanity is presented to you.
I want these people to burn. Who can blame me for liking Nick Land?
Land's dream will become true soon, mabye even during his lifetime. I am awaiting it in joyful anticipation. Good luck.

>>14844260
SchizOID, not schizO. Look up schizoid personality disorder, because you have it.

>>14844295
so you didn't understand it. try again anon you might catch up.

>>14844347
It's very impressive that you managed to fit coping, seething, and posting un-self-aware cringe into only two sentences. I'm sorry about the neurological handicaps you were born with, anon, and I hope that one day you'll seek Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for them.

>>14844363
>the brainlet gets angry
try refuting his philosophy instead of yelling at your computer.

>>14844363
>Philosophy has an affinity with despotism, due to its predilection for Platonic-fascist top-down solutions that always screw up viciously.

>>14844223
Land isn't a pseud. Maybe you are just a brainlet.

Creating meaningful neologisms is the most important development of any philosophy

>>14844378
>dude why aren't you embarking on the futile quest of """refuting""" emotionally evocative but intentionally obtuse nonsense written by a severely mentally ill boomer

>>14844415
Not a refutation.

>>14844423
No refutation necessary. If you consider Land's retarded boomerposting philosophically valid, you should be confined to an asylum or buried in a shallow roadside grave.

>I have gay cancer. I'm going to die, and so are you.

>>14841557
events don't necessitate agents, genius'

>>14844432
yet he is being taught in universities and you are no one. strangely potent

>>14841361
This reads like someone who never went to school. Aka not an argument.

>>14844432
Capital can't be stopped. You're just in denial.

>>14844489
>Capital can't be stopped
heh, nothing personnel kid

>>14844504
>money
>capital
Nice try retard.

>>14844509
Mostly the money aspect of capital that makes it disagreeable tho

>>14844509
*casually snaps your means of production*

>>14841293
I fought the law and I lost

nick land has proven that materialism taken to its extreme drives you completely insane - and no, no one has refuted this

How much of kant and deleuze do I need to understand before I read land shit?

>>14841323
>Rather, we should advocate for a slow yet peaceful extinction of the human race through natural measures and the complete preservation of our planet.

Good up until this point, showed you to be full retard

>>14844522
Capital isn't material, it's what creates it and gives it value.

>>14844592
Imagine falling for low-tier memes.

>>14841323
salad of words

>>14844432
why are you even posting itt then? seems like cope to me

>>14841911
Whoever responded to you wasnt me, original anon here. I’d say Land as Accelerationism 101 is going to be worth wrestling with in well over a millenium, let alone a decade, insofar as it is a novel reading of D+G along explicitly Marxist terms. Along with Empire, Ideology, Culture Society, etc., it’s a pretty substantive, now influential reading within the Marxist paradigm.

capital ate my homework

>>14841911
His most important work is going on 30 years old, why do you think his thought would die out now that it's started to pick up momentum?

>>14841399
Could you make up your mind if these lit pseuds are Deleuzeans or idealists

ya bro too many kino look gay trope nigger faggot touch my brainlet cock so redpilled love u senpai suck em suck me omg christcuck no one cares eww u really think

Shut up faggot go take your meds
I DID TAKE MY MEDS HEKLP

>>14844585
Any philosophy "taken to its extreme" would drive you nuts, or at least it would appear that way for everyone else. Despite his genius, do you think that Kant was sane?

>>14841872
He'd seen everything needed to be seen.
Meanwhile we have Nick Coof-Land boom-posting in Shanghai, not comparable because death is a far greater achievement.

>>14845590
a lit pseud made that image and a lit pseud posted it

>>14845578
lmao

>>14841277
blocks your path

Stop bumping the slide thread

He was refuted by Lain.

A nick land chart or reading order please

>>14847369
The secret to beat The Dark Forest it lies between the CCRU and the Unabomber.