/lit/ - Literature

>>14829718
Read Marx
Communism>Socalism

>>14829718
Bernie won Texas & California, by far two of the most important states (along with Vermont, Colorado, and Utah).

Put that smugness on hold.

>>14829718
You mean Soc-dem.

>>14829745
Marxism is socialism aimed at achieving communism.
(Soc-dem is of course aiming at maintaining capitalism)

>>14829718
unironically manufacturing consent. democracy is a lost cause in a society where the capitalists own the streams of information. If socialists want to take control it won't be accomplished democratically

>>14829754

>>14829750
WHEN I WAS........

From what perspective? I like the angle of "when love has grown cold men speak of charity"

>>14829753
Ok woman

Based and redpilled.

#ridinwithbiden

>>14829754
based

>>14829718
The Road to Serfdom
Industrial Society and its futures
OLtO-MP

>>14829718

Any decent history of the 20th century will do.

>>14829754

That's why I tend to avoid commenting, needing to tell people capitalism is a word made up by its critics. What you're referring to is economic liberalism, which in turn means you're free to act economically.

So, you speak of owning the streams of information. Dude, wake up, you're free to go to vox.com and wank off to that mexican faggot they got as their cult leader. Daily Stormer. Pravda, you name it.

We don't give a fuck.

>BUUH muuh socialist economy

Economy is everything. Taking a crap is an economic act. Deciding is an economic act. Socialism aims at telling you what to do in every aspect of your life: ''The ultimate aim of communist legislation is turning Right into legislation'', as their own Supreme Judges put it. They'll literally try to legislate the crap out of your ass shall they deem free defecation is a counter-revolutionary act.

And yeah, good luck using violence in the name of the left anywhere that's already suffered communism. Y'all will be dead soon before the army shows up.

>>14829995
>discusses streams of information on a mass scale
>vox, daily stormer
anyone can shout into the wind, no one gives a fuck. mainstream sources of information matter though.

>>14830011
>vox isn)t mainstream
Bruh

>>14830011
>muh manufacturing consent
No one needs propaganda to know mass starvation and living in burned out hovels is bad. No one is being manipulated to dislike awful forms of government.

Communism failed, Marx was wrong, the experiment was an unmitigated disaster.

>>14829995
act like vox is a leftist site and act like the handful of socdem websites is equal to the whole of bourgeois press/tv in league with establishment politicians and capitalists

>>14830044
are you those fags with roses in their twitter bios or is that another breed of degenerate?

>>14829750
None of this matters. The superdelegates will rally behind Biden (or hell, maybe Bloomberg) and skunk Sanders. Maybe they won't need DNC chicanery, but they'll cheat if they need to.

>>14829754
Full Gramsci/Althusser here. Also totally right.

>>14830070
>if we can't force people to believe us, we'll force them to believe us!

breathtaking, unimaginable how a country full of you types wouldn't descend into chaos and starvation in a few years.

>>14830025
Your experiences (or the experiences of your friends) aren't mainstream if you think Vox is mainstream. Go to Kansas. CNN is mainstream. Fox is mainstream. That's fuckin' it.

>>14830060
rose emojis are faggots, I don't claim them

>>14830065
The DNC doesn't need to cheat to block Bernie. He's not a popular candidate.

If I was a socialist, I'd be thanking God right now. Trump v. Bernie would inevitably become a referendum on the Soviets and Venezuela.

>>14830078
>your anecdotal experience doesn’t matter, the anecdotal experiences from the people in Kansas matter
Lol ok

>>14830079
and i don't claim slaveowners, but that doesn't stop your types from throwing me in with them. what's your mental gymnastic routine for being proud of larping as a socialist?

>>14830087
A socialist who discounts lived experiences, wow! Someone screencap it, I can't believe I'm seeing this.

>>14830075
That anon was saying how democracy can't exist if hegemony is determined via capitalist platforms, which is true, unless you think unmitigated capitalism is democratic (and if you do, I don't know, neck yourself). Neither I nor who I was quoting said anything about manufacturing consent to achieve socialist, communist, etc. aims; instead, they explained why peaceful socialist endeavors fail and will continue to fail.

>>14830088
I'm looking for a system that will provide everyone the opportunity to flourish and be happy. Capitalism has failed at that at every step. It's done wonders for our productive capabilities but it is nothing but a fetter to future progress at this point

>>14830082
I didn't say they did need to cheat, merely that they would if necessary. Biden's probably a lock. Not that it matters; Trump was going to molly wop any of the Democratic candidates (while probably losing the popular vote by even more than last time, not that the popular vote matters).

>>14830093
>democracy can't exist if I own what I make
But yeah, let's talk about the revolution, comrade. Tell me, truthfully, how rosefag 'tifers are going to violently convince every living person in the US that socialism is nifty keen.

>>14830087
I used Kansas as an example, but look at the reach of Vox compared to CNN and Fox viewership and tell me it's mainstream. The internet analog is like calling 4chan mainstream.

>>14830096
>Capitalism has failed at that at every step
But it hasn't. Everyone is flourishing. Your standard for what is "flourishing" is simply higher than whatever that standard was a few centuries ago.

>>14830096
Happiness is cultural, not economic.

>be from slavistan somewhere in europe
>grandparents owned a field on which they worked themselves
>I am supposed to take seriously some american faggot who tells they were kulaks and deserved it, unlike some tranny youtuber who makes monthly more money than they saw in their entire lives simply by talking about his fetishism in magenta lighting

Left attracts pathetic people, you can screech that the real left is you and your 50 buttbudies on bunkerchan, but that's a massive cope.

>>14830106
They won't, and I don't think the point was to say people will be convinced through violence. The point was to say the government and its benefactors would need to be overthrown, not to engender the love of the masses, but the end capitalism. How can a revolution proceed without the masses? I don't know; I am not liable to believing in Marx's reading of history.

>>14830111
What if you have nothing under capitalism? Are you still flourishing because you're not dying of smallpox?

>>14830116
the overthrow of the government would cause violence against the masses by definition. capitalism would not end, nor would it ever end as local varieties would crop up in the dystopia the purple-hair brigade would inevitably create, just as they did in the other dystopias invented by the soviets, the vietnamese, the chinese, and so on. it's not going anywhere.

>>14830123
If I can be a materialist about it, and I will be because daddy Marx says so, then yes. The "average" poor person in the United States is a literal god-king if compared to the average poor person globally and across the past two or three centuries.

>>14830111
not really. There are still billions of people living on less than $2 a day. There are children who have to support their family by mining in life-threatening conditions instead of getting an education. Even within supposedly wealthy countries like the US there are underprivileged areas with terrible education systems and more than half of the kids dropping out without graduating high school. Idk about you but that doesn't seem right to me when our global economy is at about $100T per year. Surely we can deploy those resources better somehow

>>14830139
>billions living on less than $2 a day
in socialist or similarly authoritarian nations, yeah. hard to make a living when the means are communally owned, and the community is owned by the government.

"deploying resources" does not require the destruction of governments, as the other anons in this thread have claimed.

>>14830138
in terms of the very little wage growth thats happened and the technological wealth that would have happened regardless of which economic system was in place, sure. But by many accounts feudal workers had a better deal than modern workers do. Much more leisure time and less of their surplus value was taken by feudal lords. And people still live in pretty desperate circumstances some 300 years after capitalism took over, so I'm not really holding my breath at capitalism to solve the ills of society any time soon

>>14830141
no lol not in socialist countries. In capitalist countries. In countries being directly exploited by capitalist countries for profit. This polarization of the mass of propertyless, exploited workers and the small class of wealthy global elites is exactly what marx predicted would occur

>>14830115
based

>>14830114
yes and the economic system in place directly impacts (arguably determines) the kind of culture we have

>>14830146
>dirt covered peasants who died at 26 were better off, guys
wow, suddenly every socialist revolution makes sense

>>14830152
oh, silly me. a worker in a socialist country wouldn't be earning anything near $2 a day.

>>14830161
no, probably not better off overall, only in some ways. Overall, capitalism has made the world better than it found it. It is just now an obstacle to further progress

>>14830170
you are correct they'd earn more

>>14830175
anon, you're confusing capitalist democracies with socialist paradises.

no socialist would ever dream of the extravagance of a $2 a day salary.

the republic is a system where the bourgeois has managed to make the plebeans believe that commenting on the rules created by the bourgeois is actually meaningful, and then when from time to time the plebeans figure out the lack of any power their views have on the politics, they go in the streets wreaking havoc.
This is why so many soccer moms and drones try to earn virtue points on posting comments online. The first thing to do online is to comment. See a message on the internet? there is a little box to comment on it.

This is the greatest feat of the bourgeois republic: to turn commenting and reporting comments into a meaningful life .

>>14830082
>He's not a popular
He’s The most popular politician in the country. For years now.
A populist, he even takes some Trump voters. Not nominating him turns millions off from voting at all.

>4 years of college for my dad cost the same as 1 year for me
>grandfather paid his way through dental school with a wife and kid by driving trucks
>I'm a socialist for wanting to change this
What a shitty fucking system.

>>14829718

>>14829718
Econ 101
The Comic Book Guide to Economics

>>14830161
>>dirt covered peasants who died at 26 were better off, guys

shit for brains pinkerite heritage foundation meme

What I wouldn't give for a time machine to grab just one of you first world leftists by the purple scruff, shove you in and send you off to the middle ages to survive there for a week or so; or, better still, only as far back as the 80s to get a whiff of the life in the Eastern European shithole I read born and raised in. Then bring you back to report, while I and this anon >>14830115 can have a bit of a laugh and a long shake of the head.

>>14830343
shut up pussy i just want affordable healthcare like any developed country

>>14829718
Read criticisms on labor value theory. Also leftist criticism of the left (like Trotsky) are pretty valid and end up getting adopted by the right.

>>14829718
Any book on socialism

>>14829781
It's a tranny

>>14830082
>soviet and venezuela

Is this how ideology unironically functions in burgerland?

>>14829995
>vox

oh, word?

>>14830139
>There are still billions of people living on less than $2 a day
most of those people would have been hunter gatherers with no real possessions 2 centuries ago

>>14830350
sadly the only people proposing it also want open borders and a welfare state simultaneously

>>14830470
Vox writers are making the best case for the leading Democratic candidates. This article is the the third in the series. Read them all here. Vox does not endorse individual candidates.

>>14830293
>NUUUUUU, THINGS ARE THE WORST EVEERRRRRRR

lol, ok fag

>>14830161
This but unironically.

>>14830343
seems a bit of a jump to blame ur eastern european shithole on socialism when the more obvious reason is staring us all in the face

>>14829750
Biden won Texas

Your candidate is getting fucked in the ass by the DNC. They're working together to defeat him more than the RNC did to Trump in 2016

>>14830481
Bernie was closet anti-open borders. You can find some interviews where he says it's capitalist propaganda to flood the market with cheap foreign labour. I think he called it a Koch brothers proposal or something.
I think Bernie's a lot more left than he lets on. I wouldn't be surprised if he were actually approaching Stalinist territory in some ways desu, although he'd never admit it.

>>14829718
Friendly reminder that literally every developed nation on earth has more socialism and much better wellbeing metrics than the US. Also China is dominating economically so you yanks can't even fall back on that. Embarrassing.

>>14830590
This
The only problem with Bernie is that he's too grim. Trump managed to make supporting him so much fun you couldn't give a flying fuck about what he said to any other candidates, it was great to get on board and watch him steamroll through the opposition.
Bernie bros get so anxious when they see the DNC working to fuck him over where the Trump supporters would have just memed the shit out of it and got even more aggressive towards the challengers. I unironically think Sanders is the best man to be president but it's such a shame that he doesn't have the sheer force of personality to just bulldoze his way through the establishment like a lot of people secretly crave.
He should unironically say fuck the DNC and go third party because he actually has a shot of making a third party viable for the first time in decades but he's too much of a pussy to do it, unfortunately.

>>14829995
>Economy is everything.
I cringe everytime someone tries to talk about 'economic' freedom or command as if that wasn't all freedom at play (in a political sense, not talking about calvinist delusions).
>but there are some big bad libertarians leaning people that don't like faggot sex, such social command
An override of self property (whether that's a good or bad thing in this instance).

>>14830632
>China
Hong Kong is not China, at least not until the 2040s

>>14830213
Were are these millions? They didn't show up on yesterday

>>14830632
The US sees as much legislative control as most places. What other 'developed' nation has significantly more of it than the US? France, Greece perhaps (>developed). I've lived in the UK and Australia, briefly in Switzerland. They are less socialist than the US.
Even if you think about gibsmedat (which is not synonymous with socialism) the us are barely below the EU average. I don't know where this misconception that the US is not welfare central comes from. We're talking having 27% of gdp going to various welfare services vs 31% in other developed countries, or whatever update for the current year. The processes to collect it in the US are simply more confusing.

>>14830632
China has little to no power projections and the economies of europe are falling apart bit by bit
Also the american government is bloated to hell, it can't afford all those programs sanders was pushing for

>>14830632
You're not wrong, which is why I gave my vote to Bernie. Also, ironically, Bernie's economic vision for America more closely resembles the economy of the 1950s, when America was great, while Trump's economic policies (let the rich have more money and do whatever they want at the expense of the rest of us) are the type responsible for America's decline.

>>14830704
The UK system for healthcare is far far better than the US system. I can't imagine fearing the price a doctor would charge me. That's just inhumane.
And we spend less per capita on healthcare for a better system, so I really don't understand why Americans aren't more furious about that.

>>14830707
It could easily afford them. Don't tell me you actually believe all the numbers other candidates and the media have citing.

>>14830707
>China has little to no power projections
It's literally buying up the anglosphere

>>14830590
How is DNC relevant to dumb boomers and lumpenproletariat voting against their interests? Bernie is getting fucked by Americans too brainwashed to see how fucked they are. And if 4 years of Trump didn't open their eyes, 4 more won't either. Time to prepare the memes for Ivanka 2024.

>>14830213
Tulsi is such a weird candidate but man, she's starting to grow on me. Hope they will let her join the next debate.

>>14829754
>f-fascism is bad and authoritarianism is mental illness
>we can only succeed through violent revolution and imposing our beliefs unto others
how do you even cope with the shit that goes on in your head?

>>14830632
>on earth has more socialism
socialist policies and so does US by the way, the only difference is that it doesn't actually work there since you fucks are too exploitative of the social safety net given to you

>>14830837
How can they be exploitive of basically nothing? Just a comparison, in Germany you'd get 420 bucks as an adult and all crucial living expenses like rent or heating paid for you. Obviously stuff like free healthcare or free lawyer to sue the state if they fuck you over. University is basically 150 bucks a semester. Transportation is cheap as dirt too. There is no time limit on it and doesn't take too much effort to get. And our state and the state healthcare provider have zero issues with debt.

How does the Burger system compare?

>>14830632
>more socialism
>government programs are socialism
Socialism isn’t something you can have more or less of. You either have it or you don’t.

>>14830890
free gibs to minorities. old people gibs for boomers. Middle class young whites get zilch. Full steam ahead!

>>14829718
Yeah. Debunks Nazism too while it's at it.

>>14830950
But then it should be far cheaper, since everyone gets free gibs here if they need it, yet the welfare costs in Burgerland seem fucking cray, even if adjusted to population size. How does it even happen? Your gibs seem far smaller and more limited with shit like food-stamps instead of real cash.

>>14830890
Abusing the food stamp system? Treating social support for single mothers like it's another form of income? I'm sure a few things can be said about social housing and section 8 too.
But apparently the only socialist policies americans are aware of is health care and education.

>>14830957
Corruption and tithing every step in the process.

>>14829718
>toobrutal4youkido

>>14830708
>ironically, Bernie's economic vision for America more closely resembles the economy of the 1950s, when America was great
The specificity of the US economy in the 1950s was determined by the extremely favorable position of the US after the II World War, not by some individual political will.

>>14830821
The Russian smear and the coordinated Biden push is pretty clearly a DNC thing. So was stacking the audience with Bloomberg supporters when it looked like Biden was tanking, and all that shit. The establishment is pretty clearly anti Bernie. They did a lot of the same shit with Trump, only Trump knew how to play the game a lot better than Bernie does, so it backfired hard on them in 2016.

>>14830618
>Bernie was closet anti-open borders
This
He definitely seems to be a crypto "Socialism in one country" tankie sort. He might not be, but he seems to make comments here and there that make me think he does have a bit of the old school Soviet style ideology in him.
Which is pretty based if true

>>14830993
But how do you abuse it, can you get more food-stamps for a single person or something? How the fuck can it be organised as badly to make it possible?

>Treating social support for single mothers like it's another form of income?
Easy doable here too. And rents get paid as well.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-97.html
Seems like you got about twice the percentage getting any sort of social aid but the number in Germany doesn't include basic aid for poorfag pensionaries and healthcare if I recall right, so the difference just isn't that vast, while the gibs are more. Yet something makes your cost balloon the fuck up, considering it doesn't even pay for college. Guess your bureaucracy could be even worse but it's an inefficient mess in Germany as well.

>>14831022
>The establishment is pretty clearly anti Bernie.
And he is clearly against them. That's just having political differences.

The Russian smear is just playing politics, and I don't recall it coming from DNC directly. The coordinated Biden push is fair game too, people are supposed to unite for their candidate and splitting the centrist vote between 3-4 interchangeable people made no sense. Besides, Bloomberg is taking votes from Biden at the moment. If Warren didn't LARP as a progressive, she'd quit too.

DNC would be fucking Bernie if they involved the super delegates like the last time, they still might but so far it's far more down to majority of Dems simply not being down with Bernie. Bet a lot of them unironically believe Biden is more "electable".

Trump could play the game differently due having a position which mostly aligned with the party either way, all he had to do was present himself as the standout candidate ... which wasn't that hard in THAT field and aided by his celebrity status. Bernie barely aligns with Dems but still have to larp as one because the two party system offers no alternatives. Also while Trumps rhetoric went against the establishment his policies didn't, why would they worry about getting richer? Bernie would screw them if he won, so obviously the pushback from all sides will be harder. Though I'm still stunned by blacks voting for a guy who didn't oppose segregation because of memes with Obama.

>>14831002
Yikes. Go back to your lobster cult.