/lit/ - Literature

sorry didn't specify enough, best uni for humanities like /LIT/

uni ranking requires an objectvity which I think is illusory and frankly quite useless, especially in the humanities.
not everything can be calculated and when you try to, you're just imposing a made-up idea of what "good" is, which is always somewhat relative.

I am currently at the university of Glasgow (philosophy and art history undergrad) and can't say I'm liking the courses very much - although many of the things I dislike would not be that much different in a ""better"" university. what is going to have a bigger impact on your experience and your life/future more generally is the environment as a whole, not just the courses themselves. to me, networking, taking part in the arts scene, being involved in stuff, having new experiences etc.. are all equally as important if not more important than just the academic stuff. Oxbridge style unis might be slightly more intriguing to employers, but I would also consider the city and the community a university is in when trying to evaluate it. that's just my take though.

>>14821569
Oxford and Cambridge are the most respected on title alone. Durham comes in close 3rd.

Below that, most unis which ask for ABB or above in A Levels are about the same. Newcastle is decent. York is decent. St Andrews is respected but I would steer clear (full of wankers with enflated egos). Edinburgh has a decent name.

>Cambridge & Oxford
>St. Andrews, UCL, ICL, LSE
>Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Durham
>Manchester, Leeds, Edinburgh, KCL, Warwick
>and so on...

something like that imo

>>14821554
UCL is consistently ranked top for English Literature.
>>14821788
>Durham comes in close 3rd.
LOL

>>14821791
This is accurate.

>>14821755

desu i agree with that sentiment, all the leagues are crap but they defo do project some idea of how respected some institutions are compared to others

and in response to your networking point, you could quite easily argue that networking would be in greater in a place with more international students.

but on the topic of community and city i agree

>>14821554
Autodidact life > Home learning courses > Oxbridge > red bricks > others > former polytechnics

My brother went to Oxford and he says he regrets it as his course was crap. He went in am enthusiastic and chipper young man and came out a whining pearl-clutcher. He told me I suffered from toxic masculinity last time I saw him and nearly cried when I said that tranny orthodoxy is pseudoscience. He is now a fretting and quivering social justice type and is really not much of a pleasure to be around sometimes. his course was in modern languages and apparently the professors spent more time talking about French colonialism and how we should feel about it as this is basically all he talks about now. Muh white guilt. The meme about them turning you into NPC protesters with blue hair is true, it seems.

>>14821791
I would disagree bath and exeter are not better than edinburgh. internationally most people would not even know those cities

>>14821554
Hard to say when talking about English universities as opposed to American ones. There really is a huge power gap after oxbridge in the case of the Humanities especially, and this is an ongoing issue.

in terms of the Humanities alone? I would say, UCL, LSE, Durham and St Andrews vie between themselves for the no. 3 spot. LSE and UCL do very well internationally, whilst Durham and St Andrews barely register. Durham and St Andrews *tend* (sort of) to fair better than the other two in local rankings. The rest of the top 10 is made up of an assorted mix of Russell Group universities (a poor man's Ivy League) that can fluctuate wildly in terms of ranking from one year to the next.
>>14821817
Seconded. I forgot about Edinburgh, but it is also right up there.

It entirely depends on what subject you’re covering. LSE obviously has an edge in economics, but Edinburgh have a very good medicine department (as well as very good literature and philosophy departments). It’s never as simple as just listing the top 10.

>>14821852
There really isn’t a ‘huge power gap’, and there hasn’t been for years.

>>14821879
Brand recognition is still very much a thing, unfortunately.

>>14821897
Of course, but the actual quality of teaching and the success of graduates post-degree is basically the same as the rest of the top 10 at this point.

>>14821791
If you really want to simplify it it's really oxbridge > rest of the russell group > everyone else

>>14821788
Depends on the subject. I graduated from UCL in law last year and it was ranked second. Durham for law is shit.

>>14821755
Why is university not exclusively about learning, intellectual development and spiritual growth? You keep blabbering on about "networking" and "being involved", which makes me despise you, because such perspective (the I do X for the sake of Y) is entirely detached from the ideal of pursuing knowledge. The vita contemplativa is an end in itself, not a means towards another end.

Does Sandhurst hold the same level of respect that West Point does in the states?

>>14822218
Yes, but many squadies (enlisted men) think officers are dopes. They are usually very out of touch. Army friend of mine said first time an LT was assigned to them in the field he stood on the back of a landrover in a firefight, stood up straight and surveyed the surroundings with his binos. The sergeant grabbed his pack and yanked him to the ground and told him to get to fucking cover. Luckily the LT had enough sense to realise the SGT was way more experienced and didnt reprimand him for screaming at him and calling him a fuckwit in front of the guys.

>>14821554
highly depends on subject, but i would echo the oxbridge > russell group > everything else sentiment.

if you want med then best look to London

>>14822050
From what I understand, Oxbridge has a pretty radically different system where each student gets way more attention and their own full time instructor in tiny groups etc as opposed to huge lectures, which sounds great and a huge step up to me. I would've loved to have gone to Oxbridge. Oh well, maybe for my master's...

What about for maths?

>>14822120
>is entirely detached from the ideal of pursuing knowledge
nigga gotta eat

>>14822375
>stands up in the middle of gunfire
Do you really require "experience" to know not to do this? What the fuck was he thinking?

>>14822524
Imperial College London

I'm not sure whether to go to a mediocre university (non-Russel group) for STEM or a Russel group for humanities. Can't go to a top uni for STEM because of my A level subject choices. Name brand of uni or 'name brand' of degree subject for employability? Tough choice.

>be scottish
> go to edinburgh uni
>don't have to pay course fees
>English students pay 10 grand per year
>mfw

>>14822552
t. leech
Why couldn't you have voted to leave?

>>14822550
could go to a mediocre Russel group like Royal Holloway or Queen Mary's

>>14822552
>be Anglo-Saxon phenotype (English)
>go to Universities with strong cultural and intellectual history, not ones made in the late 70s
>'Pay' course fees via government grant, government doesn't even ask for you to pay it back if you ignore them for long enough
>mfw

>>14822534
I think it that the firefight was not at his squad per se, but when you see that little dude stand up there then it soon will involve him. Apparently the sergeant really did chew him out though. Some pompous officer types literally thunk it is the movie Zulu or somethibg and officers are just off limits in combat so he gets to survey his giant chess board of a battlefield.

>>14821554
UCL.

I fucked up and only have the choice between a bunch of pretty bad Universities (Aston Uni, Staffordshire, a bunch of other unis ranked 30-50)
Does it even matter what I pick or are they all going to be the dregs and leftovers of the actual decent Universities and I'm fucked no matter what?

>>14821755
Which level in library are you usually around? I'll find you and publicly humiliate you.

See you around.

>>14822813
You really need to do some research into the course you want to take specifically at each Uni you applied to. I also went to a garbage Uni due to massive up-fuckery but my course turned out to be much better than it had any right to because of the course leader being a Oxford graduate. Look into who is running the courses etc and you might be able to get something good out of it. You will be surrounded by retarded and very dis-interested people however, there is a chance you will find a few other people in your boat but that is largely luck.

>>14821791
The top tier internationally renown, second tier internationally known, what about the third tier? My mediocre state school offers a study abroad with KCL. Thinking about studying abroad just for the sake of going to Europe but curious to hear if it is in anyway something that’s to brag about (or alternatively, look like a dumbass)

>>14822552
It’s £9250 actually, and if I see you in George Square I’m going to beat you up

>>14822517
No I completely agree anon, I’m also looking at Oxford my PgDip

>>14821813
current 2nd year at oxford, this sounds like absolute bullshit dude

>>14823795
I wish it were. I visited him lots and tge evolution was real. Maybe i am putting too much on the uni and not enough on friendship groups but he came out a right cry baby with few marketable skills.

>>14822120
what I was arguing is that those things are part of intellectual development and spiritual growth. I agree with you in disliking the view that everything is a means towards something else (which is usually related to money in some way) and that's part of the reason I dislike uni rankings: they consider the pursuit of knowledge as a training for career, since it's only these kinds of things that are measurable (i.e. how many X students get into Y career).
what I was saying is that to me, spiritual and intellectual development aren't just individualistic things I can pursue on my own in a private library, but the local academic/creative community are just as fundamental in the path that I am pursuing.
it probably also depends on how much desire one has to contribute and create apart from just learning and appreciating someone else's art. I couldn't imagine myself dedicating a life to study and shunning creativity. making art (which for me requires community) isn't a means to an end, but part of a process which is an end in itself. I'm not arguing that this is the ultimate meaning of intellectual development, but I find that - personally - it's a fundamental part of it.

>>14822859
I'm very much a level 11 type of guy

in the US, it generally oxbridge>st andrews>unversity college london

I did one year of a 2 year cocktail party fellowship at cambridge before I got sick of it and felt like I was wasting my time and left for film school.

>>14821569
>humanities like /LIT/
reading it or writing it?
if writing -> UEA, roehampton

>>14824792
Nobody has ever heard of those other two you retard. The only UK schools Americans are aware of are Oxford and Cambridge.

>>14821554
You are 100% better off going to a worse uni and being the smartest person there, brown nosing with lecturers than you are going to the best uni you can. That's true for pretty much any subject.

Obsessing over top unis is for retarded 17 year olds.

>>14825235
t. seething KCL faggot still upset that we're better.

>>14825265
This. University is all about networking and making contacts, not about learning anything (You can do that at home). Don't be the dumbest person in the room.

>>14821788
>Durham comes in close 3rd.
lmao
For economics it's easily LSE in 3rd, maybe even higher. For anything else it's Imperial. Someone saying they go to Imperial is literally code for "I cried for a couple of days after I got rejected from Oxbridge but t-this is still good, r-right??"

>>14821788
>Close 3rd
Durham dunce detected.

test

>>14822524
Cambridge is easily the best for maths. It's not close. Oxford would be second and then Imperial in third.
There's basically no way to argue any other ordering than this. The mathematical tripos is so far superior to any other university system that Cambridge is in a class of its own with maths, at least in the UK.

>>14821791
I go to Manchester.
Humanities at this uni sucks unless you just want to snort ket all the time and be woke as fuck.

>>14825340
This is what I’m trying to do now. All the lecturers know me by name and I’ve already won accolades. I’m hoping this opens a path for a free postgrad scholarship.

Does anyone have any advice for getting my name out there even more?

>>14825340
>>14825265
Cope desu. You don't grow as a person by intentionally surrounding yourself with mediocre people. And networking is obviously going to be more helpful if you're doing it with the Oxbridge rich elites who will go on to rule the country and its industries.
>>14825347
There are many subjects that imperial is not ranked in the top 3, or 10 for that matter. Oxbridge is undeniably the top 2 though, for almost everything.

>>14825369
Write some papers. Write a book. etc.

>>14825376
Ever heard a politician or CEO who came from one of those places? They are empty-headed mitwit posh wankers. Do not confuse wealth with intellect.

>>14825391
Yeah but they've got all the money so

>>14825376
Oh look, it's one of those retarded 17 year olds I was talking about.

>>14825376
>There are many subjects that imperial is not ranked in the top 3, or 10 for that matter
I know you're right, I just didn't give a fuck enough to really get into it so I settled for a lazy low effort summary.
For LSE though I honestly think it's either #1 or #2 for economics. If name-brand unis didn't matter, and we looked at it objectively, I think we'd see LSE does have a better econ course than at least Oxford, and maybe even Cambridge as well.

>>14825235
I went to UCL, and we had exchange programmes with Columbia and Harvard so I don't think that's true.

>>14825421
LSE is good for economics, but it's still Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial for maths generally. LSE can be very variable on the tables, anyway. I was offered a place and turned them down because they had shit extracurriculars compared to us.

>>14825369
Are you trolling? What your lecturers think of you, or your name, means fuck all. Everything is about the marks and getting your submissions in on time. You should also focus on extracurriculars if you want to get into the good exchange programmes. And these can not be obvious, either. Three out of the five I knew who got into the Columbia programme did so on the back of volunteering on local community law centres, and going round schools giving presentations to kids on their rights. The very last thing anyone ever paid attention to was how much you sucked up to lecturers. Most of the lecturers and tutors are on research grants anyway, so you're just basically an irritation to them. I really wouldn't make it worse for yourself by trying to annoy them with childish games.

>>14821554
>tfw went to Oxbridge, got a first, applied and got into a PhD, then quit and spent two years as a NEET.
>only now slowly working on a career as a literary agent, which is 0% related to my degree
Don't go unless you've sorted yourself out first. A PhD or Masters from there will always mean more than an Undergrad anyway. Unless you're 100% mentally stable and self-motivated, get a first somewhere else, get your early-20's craziness out of the way, and then go as a grad. Oxbridge is wasted on young idiots, like me and most of my friends.

>>14821813
>and then everyone clapped

>>14825452
Which uni, what college, what year?
>Girton here, no I was not pooled
>1st year HSPS

>>14825184
Heard Plymouth's not bad for writing either at the moment. Dire fucking city though.

>>14825447
Good thing my submissions are pretty good then and I’ve got extracurricular stuff lined up. I know lecturers knowing me doesn’t mean anything by itself, but I’ve found it gives you someone to talk to about what goes on behind the scenes.

>>14825498
Ok, well that's good. Being friendly with lecturers didn't help anyone in my cohort at all. In fact, one of my friends was very friendly with one of the first year public law professors who seemed to really like him, but when a research position came up in that department, my friends' marks counted against him. Doesn't matter how much he was liked. They have strict procedures for this, anyway. There's a clear checklist of what's required and you have to meet that, regardless of how much the lecturer or tutor may personally like you. Which is how it should be.

Oh, and just to add to this >>14825510 - in my experience, being friendly and helpful to your fellow students DOES count. Depends on your proposed field but in law, you can get recommendations from your tutors and this was mentioned in mine by two separate tutors. That I was helpful and cool with the other kids. So that's something to think about. Everyone loves a team player.

>>14825510
I actually don’t like lecturers who are too friendly. The ones who try to be your friend rather than you having to earn their respect annoy me. I think the reason I’m known in the department is because I was the best performing student in the previous year and got an award for it. My tutors are telling me that I’m capable of top degree, so I’m trying to do what I can to get my name out there so even other unis can notice me.

Any lads got an opinion on Warwick?

>>14825537
> who try to be your friend
No offence, but this is a sign of a very bad institution in my view. All my lecturers and tutors were very friendly only to the extent you could go to them for help and they were receptive to that. Anything else... forget it. You're in and you're out in 3 years, and as much as you probably like to think you're notable, they very likely won't remember you at all save for when you write to them with a nice thank you at the end of the degree and ask for their permission to list you as a referee.

Your marks sound fine. Marks, extracurriculars, being a good team player. That's all you need. Congratulations on your previous achievements, too. I wish you the best of luck on coming top and sincerely hope you do it.

test

>>14825560
no lol

>>14825561
It’s only certain tutors that are cringe in trying to be hip and cool. The others are fine. I’m planning to be giving a talk on my research at a much more prestigious uni as an extracurricular thing. I’m just waiting to see if they’ve actually accepted my submission. I’m hoping that will give me an opportunity to speak to network with experts, because at the moment it seems like I’m more knowledgeable than my tutor in my particular topic of research.

>>14824792
>st andrews>unversity college london
It's the other way round. No-one knows what st andrews is outside of Britain. They perform abysmally when compared to UCL in the international league tables too.

>tfw swede who cant decide if I should apply to US unis or UK unis for next year

>>14825347
>For anything else it's Imperial.
For the Humanities, it's UCL. You can't even study the Humanities at Imperial.

>>14825365
>unless you just want to snort ket all the time and be woke as fuck.
A lot of people do. All the normies in my school went to Manchester.

>>14825391
>Ever heard a politician or CEO who came from one of those places? They are empty-headed mitwit posh wankers. Do not confuse wealth with intellect.
Nobody is - but we're talking in terms of success not intelligence.

>>14825593
Oh, that's fine. If you're actually talking to people with a view to discussing or presenting work, that's different. I don't think of this as 'networking' per se. But yeah, that's good - one of the girls in my unjust enrichment class wrote a based as fuck paper that got published in some quarterly law journal, and last I heard she was accepted to Cambridge's LLM. So yeah, nothing wrong with getting your research and findings out there. Go for it.

>>14825560
I hear it's above average and a bit quirky. Land went there.

>>14821554
Is that Tom Cruise?

>>14822550
Choose the university name first definitely.

Allows change in the future.

>>14822552
>>14822554
>>14822562
>>14823137
Sorry what's happening here? Could someone explain to a non-brit?

>>14825655
You decide.

>>14825452
Sounds like it worked out well for you, only your choice to become a NEET has slowed you down. Why not go as an undergrad? Also what was your degree?

>>14825738
The UK is comprised of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. The English are the overwhelming majority (like 60+ million out of 70 million population) but are INCREDIBLY cucked, so we allow the other nations in the UK to get special privileges paid for at English taxpayer expense despite them all being useless economic drags with worthless parasitic populations. So take Scotland, they get free university educations, free drug prescriptions and other benefits that English people don't get (we have to pay for each drug we get, and pay £9250 per year for university). It's even more funny because anyone in the entire EU can get free education in Scotland too... except English people.

Also they have their own parliament and English politicians can't vote there, but Scots can still vote in our matters. When the issue came up whether to treble tuition fees, Scottish politicians naturally voted in favour of doing so despite keeping free tuition themselves. If they hadn't done that the law wouldn't have passed.

>>14825785
BAAAJAJJAAAJAJAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA YOU GUYS ARE ABSOLUTE FUCKING KEKS! AHAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>14825785
This. Scots are just fucking bludgers. The truly hilarious thing is their education standards are falling year on year due to that insane small cunt that runs it all.

uni is a waste of time and money

>>14825646
Literally every time I wear my St Andrews shirt in America strangers approach me on the street who have some connection to the place.

>>14826029
Same happens to me every time I wear my Arsenal shirt in America. Doesn't mean they're Arsenal fans.

>>14822562
>be Anglo-Saxon phenotype (English)
ftfy

>>14826089
A-are you loocal?

>>14824494
it probably was the friendship groups; lecturers dont really push their political agendas on people here, but there are definitely groups of people who would foster that sort of change in a person. was he at wadham?

>>14826029
It would happen more often if you wore a UCL shirt.

>>14825785
>When the issue came up whether to treble tuition fees, Scottish politicians naturally voted in favour of doing so despite keeping free tuition themselves. If they hadn't done that the law wouldn't have passed.
BASED

>>14825466
Some people have lives anon and things happen to them in those lives. You might have nothing to offer in the way of a story but we do.

>>14826160
No it was Pembroke. I met some of his friends though and they were all chill. A couple of his best friends told some pretty unwoke jokes when I met them. Maybe it was even just the radicals handing out pamphlets perhaps. He did have a professor that was mad into Foucault and now he is a big proponent of some of the more weird sexual deconstruction that Foucault taught. He hasn't shilled for pedophilia luckily but he is deep into queer theory. Fucking pleb.

>>14826193
thats peak, pembroke does seem to have that sort of crowd though. was this his professor lmao

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/27/oxford-lecturer-wrote-ethics-child-pornography-admits-producing/

>>14825655
you must be 18 to post here

American here who did exchange semester at U of Edinburgh. Wonderful city and University

>did BA through the Open University while tutoring English, getting pieces submitted and relevant work placements
> Somehow scraped a first also despite crushing depression that I was at an irrelevant uni
> Managed to get accepted into MA at Warwick

Unironically cured my depression. I also met someone doing an MA at Oxford after having studied at the OU, I didn't even apply to Oxbridge out of shame. Never thought I'd be where I am now desu.

>>14826240
Congratulations, glad things are working out for you. What sort of work are you planning on doing? What were your work placements like?

Im amazed no-one here has mentioned Birmingham. Have you seen the medical facilities there? Birmingham is the 2nd city in the UK after London. University of Birmingham takes my 2nd spot.

>>14826209
Oof, what a fucking bunch. Having saod all this, his partner went to Magdalin and is a normal fucking person, so whatever. Maybe it is just a particular pit in Wadham and Pembroke.

>>14826240
Is Open University worth the money? I felt like it was an overglorified Coursera when I took the tour and got the brochures, but it would allow me to study and work at the same time.

>>14826283
Delusional

>>14822552
>be american
>go to edinburgh
>in debt 30k per year
>all my peers graduating debt free
haha... at least its a good uni... right guys?

>>14826004
if you're from the USA, going to uni literally doubles your salary basically irrespective of degree choice. you will make exponentially more money over your lifetime if you get a degree

>>14826462
Don't know how the loan system works for yanks, but here it wiped after 25 years of you don't make more than the threshold and if you do it really isn't a burden cos ur minted.

Also it's more like a tax rather than a loan

>>14826431
Not him, but I got accepted to UCL for law and part of my application included two years doing courses at the OU (counts as a Certificate of Higher Education). All the admissions departments I spoke to: Oxford, UCL, Kings, LSE, and QM had no issue with the OU at all. A great example of an institution that carries a lot of heft without having some kind of 'rank'. So yeah, go for it. I'm keen to do another degree through them just to keep myself busy.

>>14826240
OU is based as fuck. But for their tutor on the foundation course I did with them, I would never have got into UCL. Guaranteed. Taught me leet-tier essay skills.

>>14826240
Nice man, I did my undergrad at Warwick. What you doing the MA in? I'd love to do an MA but I can't afford one.

>>14826279
I was hoping to go into academia but since that ways gets shit on here in considering journalism instead. The dream would be to write full-time but obviously that's everyone's dream, right? While I was doing the degree I did a journalism internship and work experience in a pretty good private school. I might go into teaching private school if academia/journalism don't work out.
>>14826431
Like the other anon said, it was great but you have to put the effort in, it's all independent really.
>>14826647
MA is in English Literature. I always wanted to do one anyway since I felt I had to get a qualification from a red-brick uni after a distance learning undergrad.

>>14826283
Yeah more like 2nd most shitty city imaginable. Though I'd say it might contend for the top spot. Just imagine living here.

>>14826460
How?

Scotland = Not great.
Northern Ireland = lol
Wales = Cardiff is good but its location isn't great.
Birmingham = In the middle of England, massive new Dental School opened by the Queen, big population

>>14826721
It's not shit, I've been there. It's stereotyped to be full of thickies because of the accent. But it's not bad at all.

>>14826471
The threshold is like 25k which is hardly minted. Americans make so much more money than us it isn't even funny. I'd happily take on their student debt in exchange for their sky high salaries.

>>14826732
>But it's not bad at all.
Well I strongly disagree. But to be fair I think almost every British city is a disgusting, post-industrial shithole ruined by 1960s brutalism so Birmingham isn't that much worse than average.

>UCL

Many people are saying UCL deserves to be up there. Just so you know, they inflate their rankings artificially in various ways because their entire reputation is based on THE rankings.

I did my bachelors at UCL and it was a shit show for undergrad. Postgrad is better though.

>>14826698
How did the journalism internship go? I'm thinking of making the move that way myself. However, from what I've heard, the industry sounds like it's fucking doomed.

>>14825357
Imperial is better than Oxford but it's not perceived as better because most top students who get offers from Oxford and Imperial end up going to Oxford just because of the name. But in terms of course quality, entry requirements etc. Imperial is second only to Cambridge.

>>14825785
Screenshotted

>>14826534
I'm thinking of doing a philosophy "certificate" (partial Masters) to help me with a PhD application. My Bachelors is in engineering, but I want to switch career. You think it's worth doing?

>>14826757
It was okay, with a smaller local paper but managed to get a few written pieces in. Things are definitely moving online. I believe there will always be a demand for physical books as opposed to e-readers, because books are magic (you know what I mean). But news is something that people check on their phones nowadays. They want quick talking points for the office and a lot of it seems like clickbait. There are serious journalism pieces out there, investigative stuff and the like, which seem quite interesting, but I feel like I'm probably too lazy for it. For my MA thesis I get to write an Augustinian reading of the works of Dostoevsky. If I can stretch that for another couple years through a PhD then I absolutely will.

>>14826893
Not him, but here's my advice: do what you love. You'll be working until you're in your 60s anyway, so do something you have even the smallest passion about. Specialise. Homo unius libri.

Also, money isn't as important as you think.

>>14826893
Through the OU? Yeah, definitely. It's not 'ranked' per se, but it carries a lot of weight from what I could make out. The thing with a lot of these 'elite' universities is they're actually full of people who have a massive hard-on for anyone who either comes from nothing, or works really hard to get in. I mean, I did shit at school, had to go back to a local adult college (full of drug addicts and drop-outs), but I guess the fact I had bothered (got 3 A* A levels) and had done my own independent study (OU) must've counted for something, because I got my offer in less than two weeks of applying. I think it must've been the fastest in my cohort actually.

So yes, if you are working and you want to study part time because you want to progress yourself, then yeah, they will dig it. And that counts double if you're changing tack later in life (same as me). They really, really like that because I suppose it validates the idea they're institutions of higher learning, and not just factory processes for rich kids to get a leg up in life.

Apart from that, the OU tends to give you everything but it's deceptive because the work required is still to a very high level. I know this because I found the essay requirements in the courses I did (Introduction to the Arts) as rigorous as what I was asked for at UCL. They want clear, coherent reasoning, well-articulated thinking, and for you to think out the box. Same standard between the two. Extra independent research (same as UCL) is a guaranteed, one-way ticket to a first, too.

So yes, I think you should go for it. It's a great institution with a much bigger reputation than it probably seems.

>>14826933
>>14826939
Thanks for the advice. I just looked at the fees, I can actually afford it, surprisingly... will definitely be doing this.

>>14826964
Go for it. Honestly, I'm much older than most posting on this board but my experience was amazing. They genuinely DO NOT care about snotty 'elite' reputations or anything. Once you're in them, you'll see what I'm talking about. All they care about is that you work hard and think for yourself, and the more trials it takes you to get there, the more they like it. All this blah blah that kids do "zomg muh ranked Russell group uni"... just not the reality. The reality is they want fresh, independent, clear and resourceful thinkers. And the best pool for that is people who are older, had a bit of life experience, worked for themselves, and have a love of knowledge and a passion for what they're studying.

It's just a stepping stone, but it's made of gold all the same, believe me. Cannot fault the OU and I will love it always for giving me so much that I can now bank forever.

>>14826823
I actually thought the Oxford maths courses were better, so that's the first time I've heard of Imperial being better. I've not got any experience with Oxford though, just the tripos, which is definitely the best system in the UK for maths, so maybe Imperial is better than Oxford nowadays.
I'd always heard that Oxford physics was really heavily mathematical, though.

>>14826984
What are you doing now? Did you do anything else to bolster your application outside the OU?

>>14826984
Yeah I like that they don't discriminate with their entry criteria.

>>14827017
I'm doing the LPC for most of the year, then I have a training contract starting in September. I used to work as a delivery driver yo. Now I'm going to start a job at one of the top law firms in the country. My age, my background - none of it means shit. All that matters is I got a 2:1 upper from one of the top unis. And I wouldn't have got in there without a) the OU, b) a based friend, and c) going back to school to get my A levels and working really hard.

Apart from that, I just volunteered locally at a free legal advice clinic during my A levels. I mean, I went without a lot. I had to save up and I had to work two jobs and use the little my parents left me to tide me over. But other than that - it's definitely the OU and the adult college that got me in. I did very well on the LNAT too but as it turned out, that wasn't really that important. They told me in my last year that it's the application statements they're most interested in.

>>14827043
The assumption they only care about rich kids is entirely wrong. Every single person in my year had to work fucking hard to get in, and had to do the LNAT (which is a great equaliser anyway). Two of the people in my last year's commercial tutorial group - one was some 'skeevy' Mancunian who got a training contract at Freshfields (fucking Freshfields!) in the second year, and the other was some older woman who'd got divorced with two kids (got a training contract in fucking Bermuda). So yeah. All this yada yada about 'le ebin Russell group!' is just nonsense. Once you're in, you'll see what I mean. They just want smart people. They don't care how they get there. They REALLY don't care if you're rich and all that shit. Not at all.

>>14826739
25k equates to like 80 quid off your monthly salary, it really isn't designed to make you destitute

>>14826732

Your cope is unreal

Edinburgh, St Andrews beat Birmingham in a heartbeat. Not saying its bad its a mid tier Russel group uni that obviously is better than the majority of unis in the UK but I'd say its in the third or maybe even fourth tier of UK unis. Just cos the queen opened some new med school means fuck all about tradition, recognition and research

>>14825646
>It's the other way round. No-one knows what st andrews is outside of Britain. They perform abysmally when compared to UCL in the international league tables too.
what the fuc are you tsig about? I ive i ZOG ad if I had nnot gotte my fellowship to Cambridge, ext o my ist was st. andrews. It's , as you probably know, way oder than University College so has a prestige than Uni College does not have (my keyboard is broken, i know my spelling comes off like a drunken nigger on a tuesday night, fuck you).

>>14825235
>Nobody has ever heard of those other two you retar
as someone who lives in zog, i love being told by a lymie what Ido and do not know...

you know the worst part about the ZOG system? Senior and Junior year of high school, I had to work like a nigger in the fields in chemistry, advanced vio, and calculus, even though I fucking never intended to take any of them in uni, annd never did. So you not only have to stay first in yourtr class of 350 in english Lit, and history, you also have to work like a nigger to stay first or second in math and science--although you never intend on using them-- or else you end up at a shit tier school. what a pain in the fucking ass. In that sense the UK saystem is so, so fucking much better. You just end up memeorizing calculus as best you can for the day or the exam and then fucking forgetting it by that afternoon. The US system sucks.

>>14827868
Literally nobody judges universities in the U.K. by their age. Nice try, faker.

>>14827915
yes, as already stated, I'm using a shit computer and haven't set up ,u new one yet. Have a problem wit it. You can ear my asshole with syrup or with jelly. your choice.

>>14827921
>Literally nobody judges universities in the U.K. by their age. Nice try, faker.
youre the type of person it would be qworth hitting in a bar so hard I can hear the fucking crack and spending the night i jail for it. HERE I AM, from ZOG, telling you I decided on where I was going for my fellowship depending on who took me, and I have YOU fucking tellling me I don't know where I was going to fucking go. and you're like this sober! there's no way you haven't lost teeth when drunk if you're this much of a hard-on with zero booze in you///

>>14827938
Like I said: nice try, faker.

>>14826739
>Americans make so much more money than us it isn't even funny.
yup! most people don't realize this.
>b-b-b-but the nhs tho!
yeah ill take my zero insurance gamble for twice the salary any day of the week

>>14824792
>>14827868
>>14826029
St Andrews is famous purely for having Prince William attend there and meet Kate Middleton there, it is not famous for its academics.

>>14828133
>St Andrews is famous purely for having Prince William attend
you're fucking insane, it's famous for being about 1,000 years old. On the same level as trinity in Ireland. You really think anyone gives a damn here or knows where that bald prick went to uni, if he fucks his mother's corpse or takes it up the ass? It's fucking amazing-- you have someone from ZOF TELLING YOU why they were considering taking a fellowsghip there if Cambridge would not take him, and you're telling the person he actually doesn't know his own mind. you're a ranting fucking lunatic.

>>14827948
>Like I said: nice try, faker.
>>>
uoi know, there's a reason you fuckers are despised on this board. Although why do I have the feeling you are a pajeet or sand nigger of some sort?

>>14828174
>>14828182

>>14825452
This guy is 100% on point. I went to Oxfrod for engineering undergrad, crashed out with a 2:2 and ended up in software development. When I started my masters as a grownup, knowing what I’m doing in life, only then I realised how I could have utilised uni back then. Honestly, people should take gap years more.

>>14825184
how is UEA for humanities in general?

>>14826431
It's very good for what it is. The materials are great and the day schools are taught by academics at good unis generally. OU also has some interesting ties to Oxbridge for research funding in some areas. However I would say it's now overpriced, they shouldn't really be charging £6k now or whatever it is. UCL, Oxford and Cambridge (and Birkbeck) have better continuing education offerings if you can get to them, there's also UoL international if you want a qual and are happy to self study for the most part.

I'm currently at my third UK university (two Russell Group, one shit-tier that happened to pay a good salary alongside a PhD but which I now regret attending), and I genuinely think that in terms of the actual education it's not worth it unless it's Oxbridge. They're the only ones who take education seriously, and treat their students with the sort of sink-or-swim attitude that proper academia deserves.

>>14828328
> Oxbridge
> sink or swim
Err, no. Average tutor to student ratio at both Cambridge and Oxford is about 1 to 2. The very definition of coddling. It’s UCL that basically chucks you into the storm and wishes you well.

>>14828328
>sink-or-swim attitude
That is not Oxbridge m8.

>>14828339
>It’s UCL that basically chucks you into the storm and wishes you well.
For a lot of STEM stuff I can see it, and a lot of the lecturers complain about it. Manchester is like that too though.

>>14828328
also fuck all research comes out of oxbridge nowadays, zero original creative ideas - just a stagnant social culture surrounding the university that swallows its own mythos and creates regressive character development

>>14828364
>also fuck all research comes out of oxbridge nowadays
Someone is taking the piss, other institutions are not comparable by a country mile when it comes to research. Cambridge is really crazy in the last few years.

Anyone else go to Leeds?

>>14828385
honestly, what is wrong with the north?

>>14828339
>>14828340
What I mean to say is they have a very high workload and high expectations of their student. The tutor to student ratio is exactly right for giving them the best environment to meet those high standards if they're capable of doing so, or to drop out if not. That's how it should be at every university, rather than having lecturers deliver sessions to 250 students who they're not even able to get to know, let alone teach properly

>>14828364
In my field (psychology) at least, that's not true. They still have pretty high research output

>>14828388
The people. Everywhere that isn't the North of England must be the South somehow and it inevitably has too many "coloureds" even in areas with no ethnic diversity whatsoever.

>>14828388
Nothing the midlands are the true land of despair also Wales.

>>14828379

for history and philosophy, a third rate german university brings out more way more shit

>>14828440
Key word there, shit.

>>14828440
>a third rate german university brings out more way more shit
Shit being the operative word dear boy.

>>14828395
Just bollocks. I had an average 200 pages of a text book, four academic articles (average 40 pages each), and between 20 and 50 judgments (average 80 to 150 pages) for EVERY lecture. That’s a lecture, Per day. Four days a week. On two of those days I had tutorials with mandatory four academic articles (50 pages average), and up to 20 judgments, many of them leading HOL which means over 200 pages. And none of that is counting the recommended additional readings which would run to approximately 20 texts and about 40 additional academic papers per subject area.

We weren’t offered one shred of help. Average nine to a tutorial and you got in, got out, and got the fuck on with it. Our tutors used to joke with us that at least at Oxbridge we could maybe get a first. Same workload, zero of the handholding.

You don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

>>14828395
> in my field (psychology)
Oh, I missed this bit. Of course. You should have made that the first thing you said.

>>14828453
>>14828454

Show me any piece of research from oxbridges History or Philosophy schools that isn't utter wank or regurgitated tripe

Anyone here currently doing doctoral work at Oxford?

>>14828560
in what?

>>14821554
Is the sole point of this thread to be an ugly florescent light for the bourgeois moths to come and frolic bourgeoisly and flaunt bourgeoisdom

>>14828616
> muh GCSE sociology buzzwords
Go finish your homework.

>>14821554
Such a fuckable-looking priest. What a waste ;_;

>>14828587
In Oxford.

>>14828636
Don’t even know what that is

>>14828661
Evidently.

>>14828587
I'm about to start mine in a humanities program this fall, not comfortable sharing more than that.

Went to Portsmouth for undergrad and then to Edinburgh for masters. Would unironically rate Portsmouth over Edinburgh any day but i'm prepared to take a lot of flak over that preference

>>14828481
Where were you, UCL? And what subject? I'm curious to check the course page, and see if it stacks up with what you're saying.

My first university was only a few places below UCL, and none of my friends had a workload that was anywhere near that high. I got a first just by revising the lecture slides, which amounted to about 8 hours per week. My friends who studied humanities had 4 hours per week contact time. If your university was different, then great - they take academia seriously and I'm wrong about all non-Oxbridge universities being shite. At least you got better value for money with your tuition fees, even if you felt nine to a tutorial was too many (for comparison, I had 20-30 to each tutorial in year 3, and years 1 and 2 we had lectures with 150-250 students in each)

>>14828678
I have no doubt that you think that was a cogent burn

>>14825487
Cambridge, Caius. Grad 2014.

>>14825755
It really didn't. I went to Uni as a NatSci intending to become a Radioastronomer. By the end, I was so burned out and jaded that I still can't read papers for fun like I could before I went to Cambridge. I'm now an intern at a literary agency, and I didn't get that through my degree or any connections made at Cambridge. I got it by volunteering at the London Book fair for many years and accidentally networking myself into it. My degree has done diddly-squat for me.

>>14828616
I'm from fucking Paignton, mate. Went to a grammar school because I'm bright, don't have a posh bone in my body. But if your wild assumptions make you feel better about your own failures, then go off.

>>14828715
>>14828715
UCL Laws. LLB. And I doubt the course page will help you determine the workload, but yes those were averages. And that’s from the first year when I first bothered counting.

As for whatever your friends did, that’s just hilarious. If you can get good grades by “revising the lecture slides” that pretty much confirms for me the ‘teaching’ you’ve had is pure shit. UCL was ranked second for law in the U.K. last year (when I graduated), one below Oxford and above Cambridge. And we got nowhere near the help. My first year contract tutor told us they throw anything they can at you and you need to find a way to deal because that’s how practice is in reality - shit tons of personal research and reading. So yeah, it was like a wall coming at me every day, and you either find a way to deal or you crash and burn. Simple as that. Closed book exams, too, by the way - you need to remember not only the law but the names and details of at least 500 cases per subject area and those are just the big ones. There’s a reason law firms pile on you to offer TCs, and it’s definitely not just because muh rankings.

Pic related. My lecture notes for Agency I (third year). That’s one WHOLE area of law in ONE two hour lecture. All of it. And those cases carry on running down the page. All of it needed before every lecture. Four times a week (and STILL not counting the compulsory tutorials you needed to go straight to after twice a week that you also needed to prep for).

>>14830242
>As for whatever your friends did, that’s just hilarious. If you can get good grades by “revising the lecture slides” that pretty much confirms for me the ‘teaching’ you’ve had is pure shit.

Well yeah, that's what I've been saying. I'm not sure why you're taking such an antagonistic tone, because we seem to be in full agreement about that.

I'm also not really sure what your problem is in general. I still find it a tad hard to believe that you were expected to read ~500-600 pages of legal text every day during term time, but hey - if that's really the case, and the material was digested properly during your tutorials, then you got great value for money. I'll admit that my initial claim to non-Oxbridge courses being shite wasn't true, and that law at UCL is also pretty rigorous. If you're so salty that Oxbridge had more tutors than UCL then you should probably have gone there instead.

>>14830467
You’re right. My tone is too antagonistic. My apologies.

>>14830476
Well I suppose I was wrong in my initial contention. On reflection, my rant isn't so much about Oxbridge vs non-Oxbridge but rather how non-Oxbridge universities treat subjects that are deemed to be non-essential. At my RG university I had friends who studied engineering, medicine, and law, and because their degrees were deemed to be important (i.e. people will die, or the legal system will fall apart, if these degrees are not taught properly) they got 40 hours per week contact time in lectures, tutorials, and labs. For those of us whose subjects were deemed to be non-essential (e.g. psychology, humanities) we got fuck all in the way of contact time, and the grading system allowed a relatively smart person to coast through to a first without doing any of the recommended further reading. Now that I'm a more mature PhD student, I wish that I'd been in that sink-or-swim atmosphere where I was given proper tuition, so that my undergraduate degree would actually be worth something.

>>14821755
Awright, fellow Glasgow Uni Anon. Enjoying the strikes?

>>14822552
Bedlam Theatre remains trash

>>14822859
Level 9 Anon checking in

Where is the worst place to go for Creative Writing?
>inb4 anywhere

>>14822859
can someone explain the levels to me? im going there next year

>>14830741
The Library has 12 floors. Each for different collections/subjects but it’s really a matter of personal preference. Most people tend to settle on a preferred floor pretty quickly.

>>14828481
>>14830242
this is cringe. you and i both know how much work you really did

>>14830532
No, I feel you. I think we just got at cross-purposes. Sorry again. And yeah, this is something I dislike, too - the idea some are ‘more important’. I don’t really get this. The rankings themselves can be really retarded (for instance one of them is ranking by if you get a job).

Also, I’m unclear what you mean by ‘contact time’ but we had barely any contact with tutors. You got the work, the lectures covered one whole area, then a tutorial two weeks later for an hour. You could email them but it was made very clear they were all doing research anyway so no guarantee of immediate replies.

Transversely, at Oxford they get a tutor to two of them, and they’re required to write essays I think once a week for that tutor. That looks superficially ‘more intense’ but it’s not a wonder they churn out firsts like they do. I remember first year exams and some of the kids in my cohort crying how they’d fucked themselves and wouldn’t get firsts blah blah. And, you know, I’d say to them it’s just a fluke. Firsts in law are hard enough but you add in exam stress, having to remember hundreds of cases - it can all go to hell very quickly. I think my cohort by the end was down to 130 from 175 in the first year, and of that WHOLE total, only four got firsts and I genuinely think they did because a) they’d been pre taught how to handle readings (all rich kids who’d obviously had extra tutoring), and b) they were just lucky.

So, even on courses like that there’s still some kind of hidden assumption about ‘ability’ and ‘worthiness’ that isn’t in any way reflected in reality. There’s all kinds of variables that can make the difference, and the one big takeaway I got from the whole experience was the rankings mean fuck all. Even the marks mean nothing. The only thing I think that counted in relation to overall ability was just to put in whatever the graft was that was required. And I don’t think that’s specific to these universities - I think that’s just a character thing. So overall, I’m glad I went, it’s obviously a big leg up for my future, but I wouldn’t say I was somehow more special than other law students or whatever. The only thing I did that I’m genuinely proud of is not give up. And that pressure is unbelievable. Like, I have never seen anything like it. I did shit at school but when I went to the OU, I got all distinctions, then I had to go back to adult education college and get my A levels, and i was the first person in the college’s history to get 45/45 distinctions (3 A*). Get to UCL, and my very first formative is 53% (tore me to shreds), and an overall of 62% for the first year (average for the 1st year otherwise is 58%). Just proves to me none of this is really about intellectual ability, but really just finding ways to cope with whatever their teaching method is.

Anyway, congratulations on your PhD. That’s really based. I want to go back to do an LLM one day.

>>14828174
It’s barely 600 years old lol, and it gets BTFO by Edinburgh daily

The UCU strikes are such bollocks man

>>14830974
>Also, I’m unclear what you mean by ‘contact time’

Contact time is essentially everything on the timetable, involving any form of contact with a staff member (as opposed to additional work you were expected to do in your own time). So during my undergraduate degree we had an average of about 8 hours contact time per week (mostly lectures in groups of 150-250 in years 1 and 2, and then more tutorials in groups of 20-30 in year 3) and were expected to self-direct our own time productively for the rest of the week.

I think all universities are expected to create a curriculum that involves a certain number of hours work (e.g. 40 hours per week), so they'll typically say "Students should read these textbooks and these research articles, which will take up 32 hours, and then attend their lectures for 8 hours". However, by ensuring that exams were only based upon lecture material, the end result is that nobody I knew bothered to read the additional material. For coursework assessments you'd need to go beyond the core material I suppose.

>Transversely, at Oxford they get a tutor to two of them, and they’re required to write essays I think once a week for that tutor. That looks superficially ‘more intense’ but it’s not a wonder they churn out firsts like they do.

Is it true that Oxbridge achieves a higher proportion of firsts than other universities? I wasn't aware that that was the case. Obviously I think most employers will realise that the tuition at Oxbridge is far more rigorous, so a first from an ex-poly could still mean much less than a 2.2 from Oxbridge.

>Just proves to me none of this is really about intellectual ability, but really just finding ways to cope with whatever their teaching method is.

I'd suggest it's probably a mixture of both, coupled with your intrinsic interest in the subject. If I was bored by the subject, then I found it very difficult to memorise course material and do well in the exams. However, at PhD level you should be intrinsically interested in the subject and also don't have the stress of exams which test memory rather than aptitude, so it's easier to spend a lot of time properly learning the material.

>Anyway, congratulations on your PhD. That’s really based. I want to go back to do an LLM one day.

I wish I could accept the congratulations, but it's at a shit university where they only care about research quantity, not quality. I took the role because it paid a proper graduate salary, but it will probably harm my chances of entering academia properly.

>>14831037
On your PhD (sorry, I’m posting on my potato so it’s hard to go back and forth to quote) - I don’t think that’s true. My understanding is a PHD in and of itself carries ultimate cachet. Loads of our tutors were research doctorates from non-RG unis. Like you say, it probably does come down to intrinsic interest. I think that must be right, actually, yeah. I never struggled with any of the work, just the volume. I also had a lot of problems taking notes in a useful way which definitely comes down to your formative education. Like I say, the kids who got firsts were all rich and you could tell they’d grown up in homes where the parents were highly educated, mother was home all day to supervise homework, then they get additional private tutoring on top of going to expensive schools. You feel me? All these things are the kind of variables I’m talking about, and that’s why I just rolled with whatever mark it was i got. I’ll do my best but I can’t be someone I never was.

Anyway, bit of a ramble but yeah, our PhD teaching candidates came from all kinds of backgrounds (a lot out of EU universities too). But like you say, yeah, they were mentally interested in the area which always gave me the impression was why they got in. That’s one thing I’ll say about UCL and why I’d say it’s top par - they really, really, really wanted fresh, engaged, interested minds. Every lecturer at some point or another would take the piss out the idea law was to make money. They had this real purist view of it and they’d really dig it if you had some out there alternative idea or some kind of creative argument. All the firsts I ever got was because I’d done a bit of random extra reading just out of my own interest and then mention it in a paper with my opinion on it. Every time a first. They’d just fucking love it and I found them unbelievably down to earth too which was always very refreshing and in marked contrast to some of the snotty kids we had.

But anyway, I don’t think you’re right about your PhD. I get what you’re saying but I think you’re being too hard on yourself. Gaining a PhD is about as leet as it gets. I mean, I could never do it. Masters maybe but PhD forget it. I’m smart but I’m not going to kid myself on my capabilities.

Oxford does turn out a lot of firsts, yeah. But like I say, it’s not surprising. That’s why I consider us to be superior to them anyway. We got the same work and zero of the coddling they got. It’s a really fake estimation of abilities when you look at what they get compared to any other law student, regardless of uni.

>>14831088
>But anyway, I don’t think you’re right about your PhD. I get what you’re saying but I think you’re being too hard on yourself.

Meh that might be true in law, but not my shitty branch of applied psychology. On paper I look like a high-achiever because I have five publications as primary author so far, but that's just because my supervisor pressurises me to publish anything I can, regardless of quality. If I could trade everything I've done for a single piece of high-quality work, I would.

>Oxford does turn out a lot of firsts, yeah. But like I say, it’s not surprising. That’s why I consider us to be superior to them anyway. We got the same work and zero of the coddling they got. It’s a really fake estimation of abilities when you look at what they get compared to any other law student, regardless of uni.

That's true to an extent, but you'll never be able to level the playing field entirely. Like you say, certain people have access to private education and private tutors whereas others do not. At least those of us who don't have access to that sort of thing know that we overcame the odds with respect to our achievements, and are better prepared for a successful career because of it.

>>14821791
>Warwick in the same league as Manchester, Leeds, KCL
Maybe in the humanities but if we’re talking overall that’s just straight disrespectful lmao

>>14828385
Me!

>>14831271
> I have five publications as primary author so far
But that’s just incredible. What are you doing now? What’s your area of interest? Where do you want to go to teach? (presuming that is what you want to do).

And yes, I agree. I may not have got a first but I’ll be a good lawyer. I saw that loads at uni, too. The kids were great but overall I got the impression they were doing it because money or parent pressure. So many of them just did not strike me as the kind of person I’d trust with my legal matters. Either zero personality or clippy/snotty attitudes. That’s another one where the marks mean shit. I just wouldn’t care what some kid got marks-wise if they looked tj me like they were about twelve with all the life experience of a gnat. No shade on them, they’re smart as hell, but I still wouldn’t want them to handle my stuff.

>>14821554
Open University if you're poor or middle aged

>>14831034
Yeah. All this 'muh pensions' boomerology is just going to screw over the following generation of employees even more. I was laughing to myself walking by yesterday and seeing the graffiti that said something like "Support us to support your future"

>>14825487
Ayy fellow Girtonfag.
Funnily I've never once set foot inside the college because I'm in grad student housing and it's so goddamn far off the beaten track.

>>14831305
Thanks, but my field is pretty niche and it's not that difficult to get published in. I can't really say what it is exactly without doxxing myself, but it's interdisciplinary research within corporate organisations. Typically researchers in this field have done really simple but fairly unimpressive questionnaire studies, so anybody with basic training in psychology can come along and improve the research base. I just got lucky with the timing really.

I've still got ~6 months left of the PhD, but my contract with the company I was working with has run out so I'm applying for new jobs now (hence why I'm posting on /lit/ all day). I'd like to carry on with research and do a proper post-doc in a topic I'm more passionate about, but I'm trying to target the top universities again and I'm not sure how hard that will be coming from an ex-poly. My other option is to go into consultancy, which will be relatively easy and much higher paid, but doesn't really interest me at all.

>And yes, I agree. I may not have got a first but I’ll be a good lawyer. I saw that loads at uni, too. The kids were great but overall I got the impression they were doing it because money or parent pressure.

Yes, this is probably true. I'm not sure whether undergraduate degree grade is a great predictor of future performance, it's just a rough tool to separate the wheat from the chaff. If you're working in practice then you'll quickly find out your competence during your first couple of jobs, and if you're working in academia then you'll find out during the PhD and post-doc.

>>14821554
After the London Unis + Durham, all the russel group are pretty much on par with each other.
>>14821788
This.

>>14831376
Well, I love it. Law for me is basically the equivalent of shitposting all day. Just being a quip-spewing smartarse and getting paid for it. Can’t wait to go into practice. I’m also utterly totally and completely in love with the common law. In fact, my commercial law tutor used to make jokes about how ‘black letter’ I was because I’d scoff and roll my eyes in tutorials when the others would start bleating about shit like ‘muh consumer rights’. Please. Fuck off. So yeah, post Brexit it’s going to be an exciting time to be in practice. I might just go after the EU’s retarded ‘directives’ on vacuum cleaners just for fun.

Anyway, honestly, I’m really impressed by what you’ve said so far. I’m starting to feel I’m probably not smart enough to talk to you. Seriously; I’m not trying to be funny. I think you’re more than able to apply to one of the RG unis if that’s what you’d like. Like I say, my experience at mine anyway was they are looking for two things in both faculty and students: a) passion, and b) being prepared to work hard. Maybe it’s different at post graduate but nobody gave a shit that basically all my education was the OU and some run down little adult community college - if anything, I’m pretty sure both were massive factors in my getting a place. Like they were consciously looking for unexpected and unusual candidates all the time. I just think you’re being too hard on yourself, honestly.

>>14831357
They won’t succeed. They were doing these strikes with us at UCL two years ago. In fact, we lost a massive chunk of EU law (thank god) in the second term because of them. They’re beating a dead horse. The simple truth is their pension funds don’t reflect practice in other industries and are massively over-inflated. It’s students that’ll ultimately pay if they get their way. But they won’t. It’s over.

>>14831421
You sound like an insufferable fag

>>14831430
That’s funny, really, because you mean nothing to me at all.

>>14831365
>>14825487
girtonfag no 3 checking in

>>14831421
Now instead of a totalitarian inept EU we have a totalitarian Uk government who has an easier job of managing the masses.

>>14831433
Holy shit rent free. A second later you replied.

>>14831437
Nah. The common law is the most magisterial applied philosophical system in human history. You’re gonna love it; wait and see ;)

1. Oxford
2. Cambridge
(a distant) 3. Everything else.

>>14831421
>Anyway, honestly, I’m really impressed by what you’ve said so far. I’m starting to feel I’m probably not smart enough to talk to you

Yikes, thanks but you're wrong with that one - I've literally just coasted to my position, and it took no particular skill or intelligence. It really is just the fact that the genuinely intelligent people have tended to gravitate towards more serious academic disciplines.

All jokes aside, /lit/ is a pretty high IQ board (although lots of that potential is wasted) and I often feel out of my depth talking to people here.

>>14821788
>St Andrews is respected but I would steer clear (full of wankers with enflated egos)
That's blatantly not true. You probably just had a couple bad experiences but that can happen anywhere

>>14825365
>posting 2011 memes

If I get a first at leeds can I do a masters or phd at one of the big boy unis like Cambridge

Cambridge student here AMA

>>14831511
has it met your expectations

>>14831522
Yes. I enjoy the lectures and the supervisions. Overall I think it's great.
Although some of the supervisors are PhD students who sometimes get confused and don't get across as very competent, but that's ok.

>>14831490
I just don’t think any of this is right. What you’ve said you’ve achieved (and I believe you) doesn’t correlate at all with how you’re presenting yourself. It is the most peculiar aspect of the English that no matter how based they are, they just refuse to admit it. Very admirable if somewhat frustrating. All you’ve said to me suggests someone I’d give my left tit to be taught by - and I fucking hated psychology. Really sorry I was so rude to you now. What an arsehole I am. Still a lot to learn apparently.

Anyway, I think you should just do what you think is right for yourself and fuck the noises telling you otherwise. Hope I run into you one day - I’ll buy you a couple of pints while you tell me I was right.

>>14831530
did you work to get in, or coast with effortless genius?

>>14828385
these people will never know the true power of the north as they bicker over southern universities like they've been trained to.

Are Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, and the other top unis in the UK like American Ivy Leagues where no matter what you study your degree alone will allow you to fall ass backwards into a prestigious, high-paying degree?

t. burger

>>14831511
How many students are from lower class backgrounds versus the stereotypical children of well-connected parents/legacies and others who already come from prestigious, posh backgrounds? It seems like every major UK politician or famous figure has gone to the same 5 or so unis over there.

>>14831560
>prestigious high paying degree
job?

oxf and cam will get your foot in the door to a lot of opportunities, provided you can get relevant work experience during the vacation period and not waste yourself on academics to the exclusion of extra-curriculars.

you cant fall ass-backwards into investment banking, law or consulting, but being at either institution supposedly shows you have brains, which is invariably a prerequisite

in some cases it will do you no good though: psychometric testing now weeds out a lot of oxbridge phonies

>>14831580
depends in large part on subject. the majority of students are middling middle class; some subjects like classics are filled with posh wankers, more competitive subjects are more representative. oxbridge are not so into affirmative action as american colleges are, but nor are they overly full of ostentatiously wealthy folk either

>>14831599
No, that’s wrong. In relation to law, anyway. I did no vacation schemes and no extra curriculars and I got offers for every training contract I applied for. I’m afraid the institution name is the whole thing plus how well you interview.

>>14831599
Yes, sorry, meant to say job.

Thanks for the answer, just to narrow down my question: would an applicant from Oxford with subpar grades (whatever the UK terminology for GPA is) and extra-curriculars still have a better chance of landing a prestigious career over someone who went to a mid-tier university but has better grades, more extracurriculars, and is a more holistic applicant overall? This appears to be the case in America.

By phonies, do you mean students who got in through connections or otherwise unfair advantages rather than pure merit?

>>14831534
Can you suck this guys cock any stronger?

>>14831646
Why? Jealous?

>>14831540
Well I spent time doing maths in highschool but without unis in mind. I actually never expected to get in. I didn't prepare at all for the admissions exams and the interviews, although some of my classmates have and they didn't get in. I'm certainly not a genius, but I'm actually passionate about my subject and I think that's honestly all it takes. At the time of my application I already had a much deeper knowledge of maths than most other first-year undergrads, simply because I was interested in it.
>>14831580
Most people seem posh and rich. I'm not sure how many of them are actually rich and how many of them just want to fit in. Although I'm absolutely certain there are a lot of very rich people here, likely the majority.

>>14831643
No. If you fail at Oxford you’re done. It’s a required first at minimum.

>>14831658
Re: your second reply - does it seem like affirmative action is less pronounced? By both class and race.

>>14831460
You’ve only strengthened my point. I hate this fucking country

>>14831692
I'd say it's definitely less pronounced. My black friend was denied although we've had very similar accomplishments. He was accepted into MIT though.
I think rich people generally are smarter and that the uni is doing a good thing by not admitting poor stupid people. It would ruin the name of the university. There are like 3-4 black people in my year, out of ~240 total.

>>14831703
Whatever, remainer cuck.

>>14829176
So the posh mums felt sorry for you and threw you a bone to meet diversity quotas and to feel good about themselves?

>>14831637
where'd you apply?

>>14828339
>It’s UCL that basically chucks you into the storm and wishes you well.
It's like that for every department at UCL.

>>14831710
>My black friend was denied although we've had very similar accomplishments. He was accepted into MIT though.

Well this confirms my suspicion that AA is far more prominent in the US than anywhere else, even other Anglo countries. I'm surprised having such a small percentage of black students isn't met with claims of racism within the administration though, since these unis are probably very left-leaning.

>>14827868
>It was my second choice personally therefore it must be second best
That logic is retarded. The international league tables clearly put UCL leagues ahead of St Andrews year after year, and the local league tables (sometimes) put St Andrews marginally ahead of UCL. This isn't up for debate. This is an objective fact that you could easily confirm yourself.

I don't understand engineering degrees in the UK. Why the fuck do unis like Edinburgh/Bristol/etc have totally unaccredited MSc engineering degrees? Why bother? I emailed them and they're like "nope not accredited, we might do so in the future". Nice I'll go to Glasgow instead fuck yourself

>>14831510
Yeah, my mate did it coming from Manchester. His parents had to re-mortgage their house to pay for it though so it's fucking expensive.

>>14822552
>laughing at 10K
>be american
>jealous

>>14831848
Why would it be any more expensive than any other uni? Fees are the same, apart from for MBAs and other business/law degrees afaik. Cost of living is higher than in most other parts of the UK, but still less than London. Surely the £10k maintenance loan would cover it?

>>14822552
I don't mind that Scottish people are able to have free education in Scotland, but it really does take the piss that all EU citizens also enjoy the free access, apart from the English who have to pay £10k. That's why we voted Leave you bastards.

>>14831530
>get across
Are you even white?

>>14831930
I meant to say "come across". A typo. I'm white but English is not my first language.

>>14831969
>clammering to explain yourself to what is likely a fat anglo or american
fucking pathetic.

>>14821554
Who are these guys and why are they acting like kids?

>>14822120
University is an environment where one learns useful things and those things are seldom a part of the curriculum but are instead extracurricular commitments of a value not obtainable elsewhere. I can master XYZ on the internet if I try but what I learned going to a small, private liberal arts college will never be washed away no matter how much I drink. Unlike the content of every class I was in.

>>14827064
>>14827085
I've heard training contacts are insanely difficult to get these days. Any more advice you could give? Have you heard about anyone who studied non-law and got a GDL after uni going on to do well? Also are you the same guy as this:
>>14830974
? That sounds insanely brutal. For the best, I suppose, since being a city lawyer is supposed to be all-consuming as well. I don't think I could cope, honestly. I'd most likely be one of those drop outs.
>>14831271
May I ask why you decided to study psychology, and any advice you'd give to someone considering studying it at a RG? Judging from your posts here, I'm guessing the advice is 'don't.' If I were to do it, my ambitions wouldn't be academic in nature but to go into be a clinical or forensic psychologist, which I understand is unbelievably competitive... but what isn't these days?

>>14832683
There's nothing wrong with psychology per se, it's just taught pretty badly within the UK. Contact hours are minimal, and you can get away with coasting your way to a good grade if you know how to play the game. My advice is - don't. Make the most out of the university education, do the recommended additional reading, read the textbooks, etc. I'd particularly recommend doing additional work on the philosophy of science and statistical research methods, because these are absolutely crucial to understanding the research literature, but only taught lightly during the undergraduate degree.

Clinical and forensic psychology is very competitive (particularly the former), but you can put the odds in your favour during your undergraduate degree by ensuring the modules and research projects you take up are clinically relevant, and looking for volunteering opportunities while you study (your clinical psychology lecturers will be able to help with this). iirc you might still have to do 1-2 years work experience before getting onto the doctorate, but you'd already be ahead of your competitors if you've put done a bit extra during the undergraduate.

>>14831599
What kind of extra-curriculars would you recommend? What are you studying/planning to do? Also yes, the increasingly common place assessment centres (aka IQ testing facilities) really spook me. Doesn't matter how hard I work if I'm a brainlet deep down. What's the best way to get around this if I do end up being a brainlet?
>>14831738
Suspicion? Bro, the US' affirmative action is INSANE and would be a massive scandal pretty much anywhere else. Pic related.

>>14821554
Went to St. Andys. I'm not public school.

A lot of highly intelligent ill disciplined and anarchic minds here. Flair and money everywhere. Seems to attract those with brains who didn't work.

The overseas students who got in were of noticeably lower calibre.

>>14825235
Americans LOVE St. Andrews.

The place is packed with them. Some are great and clever. Sadly, because they pay such high fees the uni lets a lot of duds in too.

>>14825265
Lots of city firms only employ from Oxbridge and Russell Group.

You know nothing of this.

>>14832747
I know you're obviously really down on psychology teaching here, but reading your post kinda excites me because it means more time I'll be able to volunteer, do part-time work (relevant to clinical psych etc), or generally work on myself as a person interdependently instead of being burnt out 24/7 like engineering students. I have no interest in getting drunk every night or whatever, I'm planning to use my time wisely. But if psychology is really that badly taught, maybe it's a bad idea entirely. I'm a bit torn. I posted earlier in this thread my dilemma: I can go to a RG for psychology, or a 'lesser' university for STEM. Name brand of uni vs name brand of subject (but, perhaps also quality of teaching, according to you). It's a question I've been struggling with for a very long time now.
>Clinical and forensic psychology is very competitive (particularly the former)
Indeed. But there are also far fewer forensic posts, so perhaps it isn't significantly less competitive overall? If it is, I'd gladly go towards forensic. And yeah, the work experience is absolutely still a thing - from what I can understand, you want to get your undergrad psychology degree, maybe a master's, then work for a few years as a PWP in the NHS and ideally get a role as a assistant psychologist which is rarer than gold with thousands applying instantly for every post, then apply to a clin psyD. It's daunting to be sure. I am passionate about it, but I don't want to be poor and miserable, you know? That's also why I'm asking that other guy about going into things like law with a non-law degree. I'd like to be able to hedge my bets, if possible. Do you know anyone who's tried to become a clin/forensic psychologist?

>>14828133
St. Andrews is a bit like shooting grouse and Henley Regatta. It's really well known by the wealthy in the UK. And they market hard in the US with the added benefit of Golf prestige.

>>14829176
TBGS? What year?

>>14831460
You think it's really coming back? As in "Freeman on the land" level stuff? I'd come in my pants if we were able to actually use it. The (((power structure))) could get dismantled in months if the courts applied it fairly...

>>14832807
Forensic has 2 slots where clinical has 6.

Any job experience wins out over grades as long as your grades aren't trash. It's a people game from there out because everyone gets A's for doing the work at that level.

>>14831703
>>14831437
You have no idea what you're talking about. Stop reading Rothschild controlled newspapers you midwit cretin. If you think the rabbit hole only goes as deep as Tory toffs you're a hopeless dunce.

>>14832807
It's not so much that the teaching itself is bad, but rather that the structure of the course makes good tuition impossible. That might be a bit unclear, so I'll re-phrase. Some of my lecturers weren't great teachers, but others were really passionate and informative. But what can they do when they're only time-tabled to deliver 1-2 hours of lectures per week, to groups numbering 150-250? They might have additional office hours, sure, but they've got all sorts of other commitments eating away at their time too. It's impossible to deliver a good teaching experience under those conditions.

For what it's worth, if you're mature enough to take things into your own hands then you can easily compensate for a lack of tuition. I recently discovered Coursera, and some of the courses they offer on research methods and statistics were actually more rigorous than what I learned during my BSc and MSc. If you feel like the tuition isn't enough, you can always fall back on resources like that. In fact, I'm hopeful that free courses like that will force universities to up their game, and offer something significantly better than what is freely available online.

So yeah, if you're passionate about psychology - go for it. You seem mature enough to ensure you get a valuable learning experience, and you can also benefit by taking up volunteering opportunities while you study.

>>14832807
>from what I can understand, you want to get your undergrad psychology degree, maybe a master's, then work for a few years as a PWP in the NHS and ideally get a role as a assistant psychologist which is rarer than gold with thousands applying instantly for every post, then apply to a clin psyD

As far as I know, the only formal requirement is for the undergraduate degree plus at least one year's relevant work experience. It's true that the course is so competitive that lots of people need to do several years' work experience before getting accepted onto the course (despite the fact we have a massive mental health understaffing crisis), but that doesn't necessarily have to be the case. I'm not good friends with any clinpsy doctorates, but I indirectly know a few who have got onto the course without master's and with two years work experience iirc.

If you get a 1st or a high 2.1 from a RG university, have a few relevant volunteering experiences on your CV accumulated during your time as an undergraduate, then do one year as an assistant psychologist you'll already be in a pretty strong position as an applicant. Salary for an AP is something like £22k and then you'd be on £30k during the doctorate, so whilst you're not making as much as you would if you got a typical graduate job, it's not all bad.

Possibly male applicants might be regarded favourably too (given that they're underrepresented in the profession), but that might be reaching a little bit given that psychology is pretty infested with feminist SJW doctrine that only cares about gender imbalances if women are underrepresented.

>>14832867
Well, yeah. The ECA 72 is repealed so all their shitty, subpar, amateurish ‘jurisprudence’ is now permanently jettisoned. Thank fuck. It’s just a matter of unpicking their crap steadily through the courts. Doubt we’ll have a pro-EU Parliament any time within the next ten years anyway so we won’t get any problems there.

We need to get rid of the Supreme Court, though, and the HRA has to go as well. Little known fact: the ECHR was actually written largely by English lawyers using common law principles. We’ve never needed it. Common law is more than capable of dealing with any ‘rights’ issues without being a complete fucking retard about it.

I can’t wait. Common law restitution especially. Going to be some great cases coming up in the next decade or so.

>>14832875
>Forensic has 2 slots where clinical has 6.
Yeah. Clinical seems to be more popular though. Overall, I'm not sure which is more competitive as a result. I'm assuming you're a different guy to who I was replying to - do you have any more advice for making it? What's your story?
>>14833005
>>14833043
Cool, I'll do my best to use my time wisely. Even if I only 'need' to do 8 hours per week of work, I'll make sure I work as hard as anyone else. May I ask you what drew you to psychology and why you weren't interested in the non-academic areas of it? If you could go back in time now to when you were 18, would you still study it?
>>14833043
>If you get a 1st or a high 2.1 from a RG university, have a few relevant volunteering experiences on your CV accumulated during your time as an undergraduate, then do one year as an assistant psychologist you'll already be in a pretty strong position as an applicant.
All of that sounds doable apart from the AP role, which can be ridiculously competitive. But we'll see.
>Possibly male applicants might be regarded favourably too (given that they're underrepresented in the profession), but that might be reaching a little bit given that psychology is pretty infested with feminist SJW doctrine that only cares about gender imbalances if women are underrepresented.

based + redpilled. It sure would be nice if muh diversity went both ways for once. But yeah I doubt it... I just hope I don't get any turbo-feminist professors who give me a hard time.