/lit/ - Literature

>>14803744
Yes, Grant Morrison’s complete works

Robert Crumb

>>14803744
Alan Moore is legit (Watchmen, The Killing Joke)

>>14803744
Stand alone one-ff volumes abound, but across the entire breadth? Vanishingly few

Foolkiller is a gem and a half

>>14803744
Why don't you instead ask whether any comic books rise to the level of serious art? Why is literature a more relevant metric?
>Not counting comic book adaptions of existing literary works, like those Shakespeare comics
I haven't read them, but a Shakespeare comic adaptation actually sounds like an awful thing.

Comic books actually contain deeply layered and incredibly potent symbolism. It's just not for your enjoyment or literary edification.

Take the Brahmin pill.

>>14803823
What's that on the poster behind him?

>>14803744
As an avid reader of comic books, I have to admit that comics are pulp fiction. That is not to say that they are trash, but they are in a different league. That being said, some of them transcend this through their artistic quality, but this being due in part to the artwork, I don't think you could compare them with literature. Sure, we have Moore, Morrison, and Gaiman (among others) who pushed the medium to new heights, but if any of the three tried to adapt their best works into classical novels, then you would see how shitty they are in comparison with the great works of literature. The truth is that comics are a different medium and comparing them to literature would be akin to asking "Which is better Wagner or Dali?". I enjoy comic books for what they are, I prefer Alan Moore's works and Neil Gaiman's Sandman to most "serious" writers that are getting published nowadays. I also think that comic books have something to offer that other mediums simply cannot provide. I suggest Scott McLoud's Understanding Comics if you want to learn more about the medium.

>>14803842
I remember when he was introduced back in the early 90s when I was like 13 and even then i thought the character was the worst try hard cringe i'd ever seen

>As an avid reader of comic books, I have to admit that comics are pulp fiction. That is not to say that they are trash, but they are in a different league. That being said, some of them transcend this through their artistic quality, but this being due in part to the artwork, I don't think you could compare them with literature. Sure, we have Moore, Morrison, and Gaiman (among others) who pushed the medium to new heights, but if any of the three tried to adapt their best works into classical novels, then you would see how shitty they are in comparison with the great works of literature. The truth is that comics are a different medium and comparing them to literature would be akin to asking "Which is better Wagner or Dali?". I enjoy comic books for what they are, I prefer Alan Moore's works and Neil Gaiman's Sandman to most "serious" writers that are getting published nowadays. I also think that comic books have something to offer that other mediums simply cannot provide. I suggest Scott McLoud's Understanding Comics if you want to learn more about the medium.

>>14803807
Watchmen has a laughably botched ending.

>>14803927
Shove it phoneposter

>>14803744
Sure there are plenty that are serious and handle mature ideas.

>Shove it phoneposter

Burgerpunk chart needs Jennifer Government

>>14803807
Watchmen is okay but overrated. The Killing Joke is dogshit, as is V for Vendetta

>>14803843
I truly believe Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth could be considered its own art form that needs to be imitated more

>>14803744
>Do any comic books rise to the level of serious literature?
No. They don't transcend genre fiction.

>>14803807
Watchmen is exactly about showing how retarded comics are.

Comic books and graphic novels are easier to create. They divide the effort between several people and the end product becomes less of a work of art. I'm not saying that they are worthless, just that I personally consider them lower than an average novel.

Neil Gaiman’s Sandman

>>14803744
maybe Maus

>>14803744
No, but that doesn't mean they couldn't be. It still is a young artform, anon.

>>14804107
Ha. I made that chart.

Bookchemist treats Chris Ware as post-postmodernism or something. Also I think he got some expositions at MoMA,

>>14803744
Watchmen, except for the horrible ending
The first half of Persepolis

>>14803744
The only ones I can think of are the Obscure Cities books, which take a clear influence from Borges, Calvino and Kafka and also have genuinely artistic art which enhances the reading experience.

>>14803744
Serious fiction? Sure, lots of them these days. More than I can list offhand, and my collection is sizeable. Knowing which graphic novel should be called "literature" is a different story--it's sensible to judge a hybrid work by one aspect alone. It would be as unfair to judge musicals entirely by their dialogue, or ballets by their costumes.

>>14806464
But hell, I'll make a few suggestions. Thanks to Norton for putting out this trilogy of big Will Eisner collections. It's eye-opening to see what the great grandfather of comics did between the late 1970s and his death in 2005 as he experimented with graphic novels (mainly for his own pleasure). His voice and style come from a different era (Eisner, of course, made his lasting fame with the groundbreaking Spirit comics starting in 1940), but they're amazing: full of humour and pathos and domestic drama. He's like Updike or Bradbury, with a master's fine pen-line.
These big books are the best deal for Eisner (each one roughly 500 pages, with multiple stories inside).

fritz the cat

>>14806464
A case could be made for the Hernandez Bros as the greatest thing in contemporary comics. I never get tired of reading their work, prolific though they are.
Figuring out the Love and Rockets reading list through various editions is just insanely complex (and Fantagraphics' supposed handy guide "How to Read Love and Rockets" on their site isn't much help, as it only covers the current editions).
I. Love and Rockets vol. 1, original issues #1-50, 1981-1996), are collected in two big hardcover omnibuses and one smaller paperback:
1. Palomar: The Heartbreak Soup Stories. (2003). Collects all of Gilbert's Palomar/Luba stories from LR I.
2. Locas: The Maggie and Hopey Stories. (2004). Collects all of Jaime's Maggie and Hopey stories from LR I.
3. Amor Y Cohetes [paperback 2008] (collects all non-Locas and Palomar comics from L&R I)

II. Love and Rockets vol. 2: New Stories (eight original annual 100-page issues, 2008-2016) is collected in:
1. Luba (2009). collects Gilbert's Luba in America, Luba: The Book of Ofelia, and Luba: Three Daughters.
2. Locas II: Maggie, Hopey and Ray. (2009). Collects Jaime's Locas in Love, Dicks and Deedees, Ghost of Hoppers, and The Education of Hopey Glass.
3. God and Science: Return of the Ti-Girls (2012) has Jaime's individual stories from the first two vols of New Stories (plus 30 new pages of comics).
4. The Love Bunglers (2014) has Jaime's stories from vols 3 and 4 of New Stories.

III. Love and Rockets vol. 3: In 2017, Love & Rockets came back as a new ongoing series (36-page quarterly original issues):
So far uncollected.

IV. Fritz B Movies Books (These original, standalone graphic novels were never serialized in Love and Rockets. Each is a metafictional, hard-boiled “B movie” starring Gilbert’s actress character, Fritz.)
1. Chance in Hell
2. The Troublemakers
3. Love from the Shadows
4. Maria M.
5. Garden of the Flesh

>>14803744
Equinoxes by Cyril Pedrosa

Twists Of Fate by Paco Roca

Alpha: Directions by Jens Harder

Pachyderme by Frederik Peeters

Sunny by Taiyo Matsumoto

Helter Skelter by Kyoko Okazaki

Out In The Open by Javi Rey

Vinland Saga by Makoto Yukimura

Swallow Me Whole/Any Empire/Come Again by Nate Powell

Children Of The Sea by Daisuke Igarashi

No One Is Safe by Katherine Wirick

Ordinary Victories by Manu Larcenet

Come Prima by Albert

Russian Olive To Red King by Kathryn and Stuart Immonen

In This Corner Of The World by Fumiyo Kouno

The Leaning Girl by Benoit Peeters and Francoise Schuiten

Lulu Anew by Etienne Davodeau

A Girl On The Shore by Inio Asano

Everything We Miss by Luke Pearson

The Flowers Of Evil by Shuzo Oshimi

Canopy by Karine Bernadou

Mother Come Home by Paul Hornschemeier

The End Of Summer by Tillie Walden

5000 Kilometers Per Second by Manuel Fior
Here by Richard McGuire

The Hunting Accident by David Carlson and Landis Blair

Berlin by Jason Lutes

The Property by Rutu Modan

The Art Of Charlie Chan Hock Chye by Sonny Lieu

Duncan The Wonder Dog by Adam Hines

Panther by Brecht Evans

On A Sunbeam by Tillie Walden

This One Summer by Mariko Tamaki and Jillian Tamaki

The Nao Of Brown by Glynn Dillon

Daytripper by Gabriel Ba and Fabio Moon

Pope Hats/Young Frances by Ethan Rilly/Hartley Lin

American Born Chinese by Gene Luen Yang

The Arrival by Shaun Tan

The Walking Man by Jiro Taniguchi

Asterios Polyp by David Mazzucchelli

>>14806542
Based list, anon. Tillie Walden is kicking my ass lately. She's very creative, getting better, and must have an inhuman work ethic. So far she's published three LONG bestselling graphic novels (320, 400, & 544 pgs), three short graphic novels (56, 76, 108 pgs), an illustrated book, and is working on a tarot deck, won an Eisner and two Ignatz awards... and she's 23. She published her first book at 18, just five years ago. If you like Tamaki or Craig Thompson, check her out.
(all 544 pages of On a Sunbeam are readable here:
https://www.onasunbeam.com/ )

>>14806542
Also, I just got Mariko Tamaki's new graphic novel, Laura Dean Keeps Breaking Up with Me. It's quite fabulous: a teen-lesbian romantic pathos story similar to her earlier works like Skim and This One Summer in its slow thoughtful unfolding of relationships and growth. This time the illustrator isn't Mariko's cousin Jillian Tamaki, but Rosemary Valero-O’Connell, whom I was not familiar with. Her linework is stunning: precise, subtle, stylized like manga meets Adrian Tomine. And the complex use of pink spot colour throughout (it's otherwise b&w) is the icing on the cake.
Actually, I liked Rosemary Valero-O'Connell's art enough to order more of it: three of her comics were produced in a new volume for a Kickstarter campaign recently, but the book is now available directly from Shortbox here:
https://www.shortbox.co.uk/product/don-t-go-without-me-by-rosemary-valero-o-connell
(Shortbox is a great indie comic publisher/site run by Zainab Akhtar, who also wrote one of the stories in the collection ["What is Left"] which was originally only available through one of her famous "shortbox" collections by mail, or you might remember Akhtar's old site Comics & Cola: http://www.comicsandcola.com/ )

>>14803744
Berserk
Watchmen
Maus

My opinion: the greatest comic story ever made (a complete single tale by one creative team) is Lone Wolf and Cub (子連れ狼 Kozure Ōkami, 1970-76), a manga set in 17th-century Japan, by writer Kazuo Koike and artist Goseki Kojima. Over 8,700 pages it tells one epic story of implacable vengeance, while weaving philosophy, politics, and a great deal of feudal Japanese history with bloody violence and perversions. Ultimately it shows the painful passing of the age of the samurai, with Ogami Ittō, the shogun's executioner and perhaps the most dangerous man of his age, exemplifying the lost martial life-path of bushido. During the Tokugawa shogunate, samurai increasingly became courtiers, bureaucrats, and administrators rather than warriors. Ittō's mastery of Suiō-ryū Iai Kenpō and even his choice of weapon--a dōtanuki katana, thick, heavy, plain and sharp--mark him as a relic of a passing era. As a rōnin and assassin for hire (despite having a toddler in his care) Ittō manages to shake the very foundations of the power that betrayed him--the increasingly stratified and labyrinthine social structures of the Tokugawa shogunate--and devastates the Yagyū clan that murdered his family and disgraced him. It's bloody, Gothic, melodramatic stuff, but it's also superb, immensely rich, and in some ways even profound.

Kazuo Koike (1936--) and artist Goseki Kojima (1928-2000) came to be known as the "Golden Duo" from the success of their first collaboration, Lone Wolf and Cub. They went on to do other Tokugawa-era series like Kubikiri Asa (Samurai Executioner 1972-76), and Hanzo no Mon (Path of the Assassin 1978-84), and Koike also wrote famed manga with other artists, among them Shurayuki-hime (Lady Snowblood with Kazuo Kamimura, 1972–73), Kuraingu Furīman (Crying Freeman with Ryoichi Ikegami, 1986-88), Maddo Buru Sanjūyon (Mad Bull 34 with Noriyoshi Inoue, 1986-90), and Shin Kozure Okami (New Lone Wolf and Cub with artist Hideki Miri Mori, 2003-06). In 1977, Koike founded the Gekiga Sonjuku college program aimed at helping talented writers and artists break into the manga field--though not all his students adopted the realistic and serious gekiga style. Some graduates of Koike's Gekika Sonjuku include Rumiko Takahashi (Urusei Yatsura, Ranma ½, InuYasha, etc.), Hideyuki Kikuchi (Vampire Hunter D), Tetsuo ( Fist of the North Star), Naoki Yamamoto(Dance till Tomorrow), and Takayuki Yamaguchi (Apocalypse Zero, Shigurui). His influence on the manga form, overall, is immense.

>>14805274
It's the best Batman comic I've read. Year One and Return were enjoyable but nothing special. Killing Joke sucked shit expected to love it due to Watchmen.

Nausicaa
The Invisibles
GANTZ
Berserk