/lit/ - Literature

>>14797742
The trial and death of Socrates dialogues.

>>14797742
Unlike what /lit/ wants you to do (the Greeks), I'd say whatever interests you.

The presocratics

>>14797766
Absolutely this. Will give you the proper adjustment and outlook for getting into philosophy.

>>14797742
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/mobilebasic

start and end with the pre socratics

>>14797742
Start and end with Philosophical Investigations

>>14797742
Bertrand Russell's history on philosophy.

>>14797869
this should've been the first and only post in the entire thread

Ironically Anti-Oedipus

>>14797869
Start with throwing it in a fire

>>14797742
>to choose from
Philosophy doesnt work like that. Start with the greeks.

>>14797895
This is a good way to become a retard.

>>14797742
>>14797772
Based af. Honestly OP I've been reading The First Philosophers and it's boring me to tears. Read what interests you.

>>14797742
https://www.readthesequences.com/

>>14798284
You are going to read Plato afterwards, realize you've been an unthinking fool, then go back and read it again.

>>14798284
Yeah I fell for the pre-socratics meme too. It's completely pointless and incredibly boring to read those fragments. Just read a summary of them. My favorite being Nietzsche's "Philosophy in the Tragic Age of the Greeks".

I'd say start with the Greeks or the wisdom texts of the bible, they're from a context you might already be familiar with but even if you aren't I'd say they're still great
I had a secular upbringing and consider myself agnostic but still think that Ecclesiastes is one of the most profound texts I've ever read, it's pretty short too so there isn't much harm in giving it a shot
Read it in whatever translation you like, if you don't know much about translations then I'd say go with KJV if you like pretty but archaic english or RSV if you want something more modern
>>14797766
This is good too, I recommend Penguin's The Last Days of Socrates as it contains Euthyphro, Apology, Crito, and Phaedo
>>14797801
Dangerously based, who's your favorite?
I'm pretty torn but I really dig Parmenides

>>14798452
Parmenides it is

>>14798468
>>14798452
although Zeno comes in close second

Think for yourself

>>14798503
im trying.

Basics, but not necessary to read all. Start with Mythology, Homer, Presocratics, then dip into Socrates and from there make your own decisions

>>14798644
Don't succumb to the sweet trap that is philosophy, view the world through your own lens.

>>14797742
No need, start with this

>>14798697
Cringe

>>14798697
If he listens to you, is he really viewing life through his own lens?

>>14798755
Cope harder NPC drone
>>14798756
Yes. I didn't tell him what to think, but what to do. If he finds it wrong, fine by me, at least he's making his own decision.

>>14797742
Start with the gays, err- I mean, the greeks.

>>14798886
You're implicitly asserting things for him to think though, if you really believed your own view stop using language, it rapes the minds of others by putting words in their heads

>>14798934
No he's not. Forced contrarianism always comes off as vaginal pontificating. Are you a faggot by any chance?

>>14797766
I’d start with Euthyphro.

Also, /thread.

>>14798934
Wtf bro stop raping my mind btw this post is not rape because I am raping you back so it's justified

>>14798886
philosophy precedes action

>>14798971
Sorry bro, couldn't help myself, it looked so open and malleable to my phallic use of language against an Other
I accept the revenge rape, I deserved it

>>14797742
Parmenides

>>14797742
Socrates

>>14798977
You are using philosophy as a synonym for thought there. However, if his "philosophy" tells him not to listen to me and it's rational, it's completely fine as it's a sign he does not listen to everything he reads.
>>14799002
Don't worry bro I've forgiven you, now that we are cool, let's have some linguistic sex bro no homo

I majored in philosophy at an Ivy and got to take graduate seminars.

There’s no answer to this question without first understanding, What is your goal?

If the goal is to develop philosophical thinking skills that will help in a contemporary setting, Parmenides probably won’t help. If the goal is to understand the history of human thought, then Parmenides is a key metaphysical thinker.

If the goal is practical ethics for the workplace, McIntyre might be great. If the goal is theoretical ethics for contemplation, then I’d suggest something else.

While my department required ancient philosophy, I don’t think you necessarily need to be well versed in pre-Humean thinkers to do contemporary philosophy.

90% of "philosophy" is existentialist garbage, not true philosophy (love of wisdom).

>>14799581
what is some true philosophy then, genius

>>14799497
to make it extremely short, i want to be a better thinker.

>>14799598
Hylic souls are not attuned to philosophy (love of wisdom). If you're a hylic, philosophy forever will miss you and you better gather good karma in this life for a higher reincarnation. If you aren't a hylic, you will sooner or later find philosophy.

>>14797772
Ok, I'll start with Hegel.

At some point you're going to want to read this masterpiece.

>>14797742
psychedelics, occultism, STEM.

Definitely not with the Greeks. That's where the whole of western philosophy started and look where that got us.

>>14799626
Start with Frege, Russell, Carnap, Quine, and David K Lewis.

>>14797742
Live a varied life, observe with humility, and become wise. When you're 40, pick up whatever interests you to fill in the gaps.

>>14797742
Not op, this is probably a stupid question, but I also want to get into Philosophy. I am curious, there are sooo many translations, when someone suggests something like "The trial and death of Socrates dialogues." or "Meditations".. how do you determine what edition to read? Do you just go to your library and grab whatever? Do you look online first to see what edition people recommend?
And if you read an edition that sucks, do you find it kinda weird or confusing to read the more "recommended edition"?

>>14797766
fpbp

>>14797742
Rene Guenon and Deleuze

>>14797766
Id say start with Republic so you can appreciate who Socrates is/was. My buddy got very turned off from Philosophy since if you don’t know who Socrates is you’re basically just reading a guy doing a shit job at defending himself.
Republic is way more interesting to laymen from the start.

>>14797875
nice bait

>>14797779
How pretentious and inaccessible

>>14798961
kino

>>14797742
Discard all those spooks mentioned above and take my Stirnerpill.

>>14797766
This is the correct answer

>>14798652
Is Edith Hamilton's Mythology worth getting? Keep seeing it pop up in book store and I'd like a nice read on the subject.

>>14798710
we only need to read 1 book, and it's wasn't the bible

>>14797742
Start with Nature, don't trust people ever.

>>14800275
Sounds like your buddy wasn't philosophy material. I was a Socrates fanboy halfway through Phaedo.

>>14801001
I was speaking about apology exclusively. Yeah meno, crito, phaedo, etc are fine for normies

>>14800275
I 100% agree. Sorry pal have to disagree with>>14801001 I was also introduced to socratise through the trial, and from that one experience I kinda felt the judges were very fair with his sentencing. I also Understood socratese as well, but thinking from the judges position, a practical position, I cant say they were wrong. I only started to get more into the Socratese camp after reading Republic and understaning that he wasnt just speaking sophestry for self aggrandizement, but was looking after a transcendental truth and virtue.

However, afterwards I felt that both parties were in the right. The court from a practical standpoint, and Socrates from an idealist one.

>>14799657
don't do this, even hegel had trouble understanding hegel

>>14801001
this socrates shit is for normies, when you're reading plato you're reading plato

>>14801103
>yeah man just kill the philosophers its good from practical point of view
I wouldn't get philosophy advice from this anglo.
>>14801113
Plato sets Socrates as a Platonic ideal. He is embodying in him all platonist virtues.

>>14801130
fuck off, I just said I agreed with Socrates as well. I just meant, from a pragmatic standpoint I can understand the judges rulings. Just because someone was guilty of something doesnt mean they shouldn't have done it. Something can be a crime and not be a sin. Socrates isnt wrong, but neither were the judges who sentenced him to death.

>>14797742
I wouldn't bother with reading any philosophers. There are a ton of scholars who have dedicated years of their lives reading and dissecting their thoughts. They already did the work. Pick up secondary materials and see what they though of it. This will save lots of time.

>>14801156
most scholars of philosophy don't understand metaphysics or epistemology at a basic level. it is especially bad with the greeks. see e.g. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1969/11/06/if-plato-only-knew/

>>14798908
>kek you said something funny about gays
>thats so based

>>14797766
Where to go next after Plato Aristotle Autelius? I am planning to jump to Descartes.

>>14801467
Plotinus obviously, there is nothing worth reading after him.

>>14801467
>I am planning to jump to Descartes.
Do it. I highly suggest not reading anything pre-modern before finishing with Kant.

>>14801467
Read Montaigne first, then Descartes

>>14801496
Too late I’ve already read some Plato >>14800800
Get Bulfinch’s. I heard Edith’s was boring but didn’t really believe it until I came across a preface she wrote for plutarch’s lives. One of the deadest introductions ever I’m thinking she’s a snooze

>>14801654
I was meaning medieval philosophy. Plato is actually very good for the development of mind, but Aristotle, Neoplatonists and Scholastics go through so many confusions and that it's mostly the goal of modern philosophers from Descartes to Kant to resolve those confusions. For this reason I think it's much better to go through them first.

>>14801670
Medieval philosophers build on top of what aristotle wrote. What are you saying?

>>14800064
Where would you prefer being now then? China? India? Africa? Bolivia?