/lit/ - Literature

>>14763948
Artists aren't completely useless.

>>14763952
I ask because I have felt the creative possessiveness swell in me.

>>14763948
Don't become a philosopher, your contributions will be rendered obsolete in two (2) decades when I publish my magnum opus and cause a simultaneous upheaval and renewal of every branch of philosophy, single-handedly renewing interest in metaphysics in a literary event that would retrospectively be (aptly) describe as 'Copernican in magnitude and Newtonian in practical elegance'. Just a heads up anon.

>>14763971
Okay so I'm like the Goethe to you(being Kant)?

If youre posting here youll likely never become either. Go NEET or bust

philosophers wish they were poets
poets wish they were musicians
and musicians wish they had more money

>>14763994
I was specifically thinking music as an artist which I am teaching myself the complexities of now, however painting also seems like a more "objective" route. And an easier route because of this.

>>14763992
I've all but stopped browsing this place.

>>14763948
you should become a phartist

>>14764019
But I don't want to be a phartist. What could possibly be good about being a phartist? Having money? Isn't that somewhat antithetical to the artistic life?

>>14764019
>BRAAAAAAPPPPPP

>>14763948
Read Derrida

>>14764002
i'm sorry anon, but that's not how creative endeavour works. you don't go about choosing how to express yourself based on what you'll look like like once you're famous and what subcategory of arthoe you'll attract. creativity comes before this and exists without even the distant thought of it being your main job, or even the desire to let anyone else know about it.
of course this is completely different if by artist you mean craftsman, in which case practice and talent are much more important than creativity

>>14764065
You misinterpret, I have started wondering by the the joy I have found in these arts and a newly realised "creative potential". I just wonder what it is that I should invest most in with my time. I enjoy both painting and music and my wild emotion swings between the two crazily. I cannot choose, I am good at both!

Every single man is a potential philosopher, but not every man has a talent for art.

>>14764082
why only bchoose one then ?

>>14763971
If you can actually do this then explain your method in one sentence now, otherwise it's worthless.

i had the same question and ended up in anthropology. here is what i learned, in my limited experience:

philosophers ask the right questions but they have no clue about the answers and just elaborate infinitely that cluelessness.

artists have the right perceptive tools and can develop them to an incredibly high and sharp degree, but they have no clue where to apply those tools beyond their particular experience, which is always historically determined.

thus, what one needs is the philosopher's vision to spot the right questions (which are always counterintuitive, as they are not determined by practical issues), and then the tools of the artist in order to explore the fields opened by those questions (which would remain imperceptible if you keep the artist's here-and-now take).

anthropology teaches you how absolutely everything that we experience is determined by the social rules that regulate order in the community where one grew and where one lives. this cleans the pathos that is usually attached to all experience, and lets you treat things from a pov that is not determined by practice, which will give you new tools to use in that practical field. anthropology, however, is not a matter of the theories you are taught, but about the experience of seeing the lack of absolute base of everything you learned in your own community.

breaking your own reality is not a joke, you might die in the process, as what it implies is mental death and being able to hold until a new reality emerges from the mind.

>>14764087
I think it is the opposite.

>>14763948
Focus on being a good man.

>>14764152
By changing the entire framework of physics from materially deduce causality to causally deduced materialism.
That's the conclusion, if you want the proof you'll need to head to any book store in the year 2040 and pick up a copy.

>>14764421
What makes you think so? As for me, philisophers are thinkers, and for me every man is able to think, this ability only surpressed by the media. As for art, you need a knack to create. Everyone can create of course, but you need talent to create something useful/clever/beautiful.

>>14764212
are you still in academia? what are your plans for later on in life, if any?

i am currently studying for a joint honours in philosophy and history of art, and i was actually considering social anthropology as an option for postgrad study. i'm really undecided about life in general at this point though. i'm lucky to have free uni and to be able to finance myself with part-time work, but i'm really starting to get disenchanted with what university is supposed to be.

>>14763948
Get a job first

>>14764485
(Not the other anon)
Just out of curiosity, what will you prove? The necessity for this framework change or is there something I'm not getting right?

>>14764212
Based advice

op do an undergrad degree in philosophy and then do mfa in photography.

>>14764485
>causally deduces materialism
Don't embarrass yourself kiddo. We Platonists will have a comeback thanks to based Husserl. All will be settled once and for all.

>>14763994
>philosophers wish they were poets
BS, I've always thought poetry was kind of gay. As for music, I like the idea of playing a nasty guitar solo in front of adoring fans. But the actual process of making music is really boring.

Philosophy is an older man's pursuit

>>14763948
Become a philosophical artist, duh.
Aesthetics is truth and morality anyway.

>>14765375

>Photography

You mean the 'artform' literally anyone with a phone can pursue nowadays?

>inb4 lenses high resolution blah blah blah

No one actually gives a shit.

>>14764212
This has to be bait.

You're functionally retarded anon.

>>14764485
That's already been done anon.

Why, I could both deduce that and find a framework for it right now.

>>14764558
>but you need talent to create something useful/clever/beautiful.
Not necessarily. Look at all the mechanical landscape painters. Look at all the minor scholars, now look at the philosophers and artists.

>>14765891
>poet = poetry

>>14765979
Maybe when you didn't need to study it your entire life to grasp its point.

>>14766167
Sure but I mean you're still by far predominantly an artist. Can you imagine Heidegger or Plato being equally artist as they are philosopher? Or could you imagine Goethe setting out some grand system being equally philosopher?

>>14766212
>You mean the 'artform' literally anyone with a phone can pursue nowadays?
just like anyone with a pen can write or anyone with a video camera can make a video. this doesn't mean they are good photographers. the academic side of photography is way different from the normal people's understanding of the medium.
do you know that photography has it's own massive photobook market?

also
>"Anyone can take pictures. What's difficult is thinking about them, organizing them, and trying to use them in some way so that some meaning can be constructed out of them. That's really where the work of the artist begins."
-Lewis Baltz

>inb4 lenses high resolution blah blah blah
anyone with the artistic understanding about the medium don't give a single fuck about gear. camera is a mere tool to complete a project.

photography is a highly underrated and misunderstood art medium. breaking away from your programming and working with a canvas that's already full makes photography challenging and a very different art medium from the rest.

>>14767573
Show me

>>14767575
I would consider the mechanicality and memory needed for it a skill of its own.
I still see your point though, however, unlike with philosophy which is a human nature, learning to paint a landscape by heart requires much work with memorisation and even handling the tools. While he may not posess that crank I mentioned and still be considered an artist, he still put in needed effort, albeit of another kind.

>>14763948
Combine thwm together and be double uninployable (but also do and then make philosophic pictures)

I have an alternative suggestion: become an assassin.

>>14763948
become a businessman

>>14768200
That was five hours ago anon, I said right now.

I could still do it, but I don't think I want to anymore because of its self explanatory nature.

>>14768349
Sure, and being what Socrates or Plato would consider a philosopher also takes its uniquely given creative ability. And time to develop.

>>14768375
>philosophic pictures
But Plato tells me they shouldn't have any form so should I be like the minnesanger and poetizise the philosophical image?

>>14768381
Okay assassino.

>>14768384
No.

But I could become rich easily as the Heraclitus story tells.

>>14763971
damn anon your confidence and positivity makes me unironically and sincerely hope that you're right, consider myself cheering sincerely for you

>>14763992
/lit/ and 4chan in general is a source of creativity
lately it's been harder to find good discussion and insight mainly because of stale memes and bot spamming, but it's still a wonderful gateway for fetching the modern life's feel

>>14768496
>I could totally do it but it's too easy so I don't want to

>>14768667
>>I could totally do it but it's too easy so I don't want to
Yes.

>>14768712
I think you've inadvertently found your answer in this thread anon, because you have more of an artists attitude than a philosophers.

>>14765057
nah of course not. i quit just some time before grad and continued by myself. i wandered a few universities and got to see that academy is just a context where you learn, not your subject of study, but a socially proper way to manage that knowledge. the knowledge itself, on the other hand, is for you to acquire on your own. so, if you keep the access to the resources academy provides but use them freely outside its academic rituals, you will advance at a much higher rate, fully unrestrained. the thing is truly unimaginable when you are inside schedules and terms and all that. but it is a path with no return, your mind opens and shows you, not a whole new world, but a whole new perspective about the old one. that is something that removes irreversibly that old stability. such a thing is a quite radical life-changing experience. it is a beautiful thing but, like i said, it is dangerous cause you are meddling with that which gives stability to your ground. and at this points who cares about plans: when you realize your mind is all the time in perfect tune with your environment, giving you always here-and-now perfect answers to it, you get to see that 'plans' are just a game we learn to keep our consciousness busy, to distract it from perceiving too much, beyond the social rules that give order to the collectivity.

and t b h, postgrad is something to do if one is aiming at an academic career. but if one just reduces anthropology to its academic side, it wont be too interesting to discover, for the accumulated texts and theories to this day are massive and it takes a good amount of time to get a basic grasp of them, to then continue with more people adding and adding theories and ethnographies and all that. if you have the time and willingness for that then it is not a problem, im sure that academic world can be fun if one has nothing better to do, but if one is truly looking for life answers then academy will block that path.

this is just my opinion and personal view, based on my experience. i dont regret anything, it has and continues to be a great experience, but im sure each person walks a singular path, built by them as they advance.

>>14765375
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=D094C1FC7A94952438ED95B0B1E5BA74
of course, read the original french if you are francophone.

>>14767569
mmm, how about an argument for your claim?

>>14768827
some things in here really resonating esp thing about plans. how did you get so woke

>>14768827
>f you keep the access to the resources academy provides but use them freely outside its academic rituals, you will advance at a much higher rate

Do you mean the physical resources? I discovered this by taking a job at my University. Simply taking advantage of the library and all of the research tools they provide for free, I’ve learned more in the last year than I learned in 4 years as a student. I also studied a social science and I totally regret it though. I consider it the biggest blemish on my biography to date. I don’t regret going to school, just majoring in that field and maybe actually taking a degree.

>>14769510
well, i wouldnt say i did it myself. i was just there like everyone, living the average life we all try to live, but at some point i saw that all the effort you put into it and all the successes and failures/lessons you can find in it leave the most basic human inquietudes untouched. so, at some point my mind dropped it all, and led me into the forgotten stuff we all live aside, and developed them slowly which led into exploring the unknown (to call it somehow). also, i wouldnt say that im 'woke', for these are things we all know in one way or another, only that we then busy ourselves with the common demands of so called normal life. but we all have to face that unknown at some point, by ourselves... there is certainly no need to rush it, but it is unwise to escape it when it comes.

>>14769610
well yes but not only that. i mean, of course it involves having physical access to research material, but i mean mostly the mindset in which that free access puts you in. when you have the whole material at your own disposal, without having to focus on what this teacher says or on what that lecture demands, you can just freely explore stuff as you read, page by page, discovering all bibliographical references and furthering them, which a fix syllabus course wont really let you do.

but again, today with the internet and such huge amount of free access to high quality academic material, that is not even necessary. i am still amazed by it, for i see how the researchers worked a few decades ago, and i just can have most of the material in a few clicks without going out of the room. i mean, that access is important but of course it is nothing in itself. it is just a tool that one uses in one's own path.

>>14769716
I can agree with that. Universities used to allow for free research as part of the curriculum to earn a degree, but unfortunately, that’s not really how they function anymore. It’s rather often about over-institutionalization now in my experience.